RemusSargin

I'm happy that you elaborated on that because I was kind of lost on how you planned this to be carried out. I think that could work, as long as it isn't too difficult or time consuming on the coding side. I totally agree, as I stated that this system would be difficult to balance. Limited customization may be a solution, and the only reason I brought this up is an earlier thread on smithing in the new update. I was just looking for something to extend the lifespan of the profession. Here is the discussion on the continuation of the Smith Profession. Finally, I mentioned that we should perhaps have two or three types of Mages in this system, just to add variety. Here are my suggestions: Mage Classes Overview So as I mentioned, there could be two or three types of mages: the Druid, which Darmo has talked about; the Artificer, which would deal heavily with tools and improving the efficiency of machines, or perhaps creating better ones; and the Alchemist, which Darmo has proposed in another thread. These three mage classes would represent the types of magic available, and all three would start out with almost the same start, researching for example. However, as they got into higher tiers, they would find different higher level magics, which would cause a split (this is similar to Darmo's suggestion about Pollution/Degradation. The player would learn basic skills from each branch, but would eventually come to a crossroads, where they would have to choose their specialization, causing a sort of division, allowing a different play experience for each person. Here are more in-depth descriptions of the classes I suggested. The Druid Druids are the patrons of the forests of the world. While they are not necessarily adverse to all of humanity, they are not fans of the fumes and smoke of the workshops of the Alchemists and Artificers. Rather, they would prefer the great wilderness, and thus have developed a special connection to the natural world around them. While not entirely unskilled in the ways of the Gems or Potions, they prefer the power of the magics contained in the trees around them, particularly Oak, Maple, and Willow Trees. Because of their connection with nature, they are able to influence the growth of trees and crops, as well as the familiarization of animals. The Artificer Artificers are the makers of great tools, blessed practitioners of the craft of enchanting. They have evolved along with the human race, helping to advance and preserve progress. They have little regard for the needs of nature, and while potion fumes are of little consequence to them, they prefer the solid nature of the gems they work with on a day to day basis. They deal in the semi-permanent enchantments which are added to armor with the aid of the powerful crystals of the earth. This gives them the ability to grant bonuses to damage, defense, and efficiency, with enough research. The Alchemist Alchemists themselves do not seem evidently magical. Their chosen work, Alchemy, however, certainly works wonders. Combining a serious scientific precision with the wild fervor of a genius, these brewers deal in the realm of liquids and potions, preferring the fluid and changing over the solid Wood and Gem mediums of other mages. Due to their reliance on both fresh, organic ingredients, as well as new industrial apparatus for experimentation, they are not called to either the side of progress or nature, as they need both to survive. Their craft produces many fascinating concoctions with a wide variety of effects, though they are all quite temporary. They help the common man in his daily pursuits, in hopes of one day discovering something to change the world, though for the better or worse, it can not be said. So those are my ideas for the moment. While I recognize that it may be difficult to integrate these ideas (and I certainly do not expect any of this in the final version), I was trying to create a believable cast of classes that made sense in the grand scheme.

I really like that concept Darmo. It gives a greater depth to the system, and while at first i was wary because the first part of the research process sounded a lot like Thaumcraft, I feel that this is a very interesting system that you have come up with. Your system seems to be able to be played either in Single or Multiplayer game modes, and your mention of pupils is also interesting, as it opens the gate for "wizard guilds," which would be an interesting new dynamic, especially if we had two or three main types of magic (natural, industrial, and alchemical, perhaps). I also like that you mention the use of other character types to achieve the higher levels, like the player who goes out to find new resources, as it resembles the Explorer class which earthboundflyer suggested as one of new "classes" (It gives a great purpose to them, as the only use I could see for them was for scouting out the land for fortresses). It encourages other occupations, and I appreciate that. I enjoy the idea of the NPC Scribe, though I'm not sure what the logistics would be for creating the system you outlined, though I think the one you proposed is pretty well done. Finally I really like the tier system you have put forward, though it doesn't seem to have a level like the proposed system for Smiths where the player gets to "create their own" spell or enchantments (I know this could get out of hand quickly, I was simply remarking on it).

Yeah, that's true. I guess more than the system itself, I was criticizing some points in his tech tree, and I made that unclear. But I agree, skill trees can be useful for building games, and in the end, it's up to the Devs how (and if) it will be implemented.

Yeah, that's kind of what I was thinking, and it's a good way to do it. I kind of felt it would be difficult to do this, as I even had difficulty coming up with ideas for the skill names. I haven't played any of the Fallout games, but from what I can understand, it is a slight combination of your system mixed and the one I suggested, which is more like D&D's. I think there are a few problems with his system, and while you could argue that it doesn't have a logical explanation, the argument could be made that one has simply "run out of knowledge." I also agree that his system would be a better general system because of its simplicity. However, I like that there are fewer hard divisions in your system, which would help for the SSP players in particular. I think the next step for this idea is making some form of visual version of this idea. It will help you develop your idea more, and give it more clout. A visual version is one of the reasons I think earthboundflyer's idea has more discussion because it isn't just abstract conceptualization, it has a visual chart of what he means. Otherwise, great job.

Yeah, I kind of got caught in the realism factor rather than the believability factor that the TFC team works towards. I totally understand your feelings Tony, and I will keep these things in mind as we progress with the conversation on classes.

I really like the idea of establishing a barrier between professions, and I think you have a good idea with the Trade Friction, especially when it comes to the magic aspects, though I agree it would be a pain to logically explain each one (though if one goes with the five trade system championed by earthboundflyer, it would be easier, as there are only five to really dabble with). As for the stat points, I like the idea, but I feel as if there would a limit for players who do not kill mobs. Also, having skill points in each "Stat" instead of just wholesome stat bonuses could be a way to develop a deeper distinction between two trades, so while you may have 50 points in the Dexterity heading, it could be 30 points in Stealth and the other 20 in Handiwork (for Lock-picking or Gemology). Again, I see this could go way out of balance, but I'm sure if the TFC2 team was going to do this, they would work hard to balance it as much as possible.

I agree it would be a pain if you didn't get the trait you wanted or needed. Being a smith who doesn't have enough innate Stamina to quickly and feasibly work metal would be a pain. I was kind of thinking of in D&D, when you get a racial (innate) bonus, and so I was thinking of that. For instance, playing an Orc Wizard is quite difficult in D&D, but not impossible. That was just the idea. However, I recognize not too many players want to play against such odds, and that's okay. I do like the idea of giving the stat buffs to the magic and alchemy, and that a permanent buff would be OP or minuscule, so in that regard, it's probably a no.

I feel like this is well thought out, but I also agree that making it digital would allow for an easier interpretation of the tree. However my bigger issue with the tree is that with some of the tech trees, you don't have it all there. For instance, the carpenter tree doesn't have a bunch of stuff to hope for, and while it may be a vocation for the later stages of island occupations, it doesn't seem too desirable (especially because it only has one branch at the moment). Part of this though is due to rather unknown nature of a lot of the stuff in TFC2, and so developing a class system for a mod that we know very little about is quite difficult. Also, I'm kind of unclear on how you want the trades to work. Are you stating that each player can choose 2 different basic trades, and then fill up those tech trees for both of those trees? If so that is really cool, as that allows for a varied "work force," but still limits players so each player is different. However, I just wanted some clarification there, so I don't misinterpret that. Other than that, I think your idea only has a few problems. As Miner239 points out, some of your trades and vocations could use a rename, as they don't fully encompass the trade. Also, it feels like some of your trades are pretty limited like the Carpenter, but this is again you developing an idea with very little background other than some information on advancement and and Metallurgy. But you do a good job of implementing the magic system into your grand system, and overall it seems like an interesting mechanic. Good Job.

So I really enjoy the concept of this. While I have been playing this mod off and on for the past year or so, I've never really gotten too far into the mod because while I enjoy the survival aspect, going past the bronze stage in the metal tech tree has never really attracted me, as it requires so much time, especially in singleplayer, where it can be difficult to keep up the motivation to pursue something I don't want to pursue. However, I think these other classes could offer a change to this. I think, if possible, two traits could be related to the trades. The first would be an innate skill, chosen randomly as the player enters the world, and the other the player would choose (perhaps they could be different traits, so that the innate trait gives physical benefits like resistance to dehydration/hunger or higher natural damage resistance, while the chosen ones would relate directly to the skills of an occupation). That way the player would have natural, random abilities, as well as a chosen vocation of sorts. If this was the idea, it might be a good concept to stagger the choice of vocational skill so as to allow the player to discover their natural strength(s) (Though I think the randomness of it would be interesting). However, this is all discussion and not yet even a suggestion yet, so I won't go any further into trying to develop this. Overall though, I'm just happy there is discussion on putting in more skill trees in, and I fully support this becoming a suggestion of some sort (there are a lot of topics in there that suggest new roles, so it may be a good idea to look into more of those). Edit: I should have looked in the Suggestions forum. Both Darmo's and earthboundflyer's are great continuances of this topic, and while I'm bummed out there isn't a bunch of discussion on the "traits" that earthboundflyer orginally mentioned, I like both of them. Once we get more of an idea on how TFC2 will work, hopefully it will be revisited.

So I think this suggestion is an excellent idea. While I do not fully understand your full system of experimentation as it is now, I would hope to be able to do stuff like this in TFC2. However, I do have some ideas. First, the tab information. I like your ideas about color, flame color, and pH. However, taste, while occasionally dangerous (what's life without risk?), kind of works into pH in some ways, as evidenced by "basic" and "acidic" foods. If, for instance, one has an upset stomach, it is suggested that one eats "basic," higher pH foods like toast and rice to try and counter the symptoms. Bases tend to taste bitter, and acids tend to be sour, so at the basic levels, the pH could be determined by taste, giving one a very general idea of whether or not it is acidic, basic, or almost neutral, and litmus paper could be implemented into a later part of the Alchemy tech tree. In lieu of taste (if it was taken out), I would suggest perhaps another physical property, like the density of the product, which could also make it so that one is more inclined to create more "refined" versions of the solutions, so while several may work, some may be more or less "watered-down" from the perfect ratio. Also, perhaps having a special journal for recording your results in-game could be useful (like sthegreat's idea). Other than that, I think this idea is very well thought out, and I hope this gets implemented, even if I don't understand them all.

Darkagecraft Minecraft user name: RemusSargin Your Age: 17 Your Time Zone: CST (GMT -6) Location Country and State: United States of America, Missouri Tell us a bit about yourself: I really have enjoyed TFC since I got into it last year, but I kind of reach a wall of inactivity when I play in singleplayer. Finding a server for TFC has always been a problem for me, though. I enjoy the role play and theme-based nature of this server, as well as the trend towards community and economy over anarchy and combat. How can you help us? While I'm not sure if the first one is necessary, my loves in TFC are Exploration and some building. I have yet to have a real motivation in SSP to advance really far into the tech tree like my friends, but I would go out and explore my world more than I needed to in order to see all I can see, as well as mark resources which I may need later. Other than that, I am willing to learn more about the mod and serve as a worker bee if need be in whatever town I may end up in.