cevkiv

Furthermore, when I was writing my MUD, there were MULTIPLE times when I said, "You know what would be really neat/fun/awesome? Feature X!"

And then I'd add Feature X to the MUD.

And then in play testing it would turn out it was a bad idea. Because it detracted from, not added to, the game experience.

I liked this mod when I first found it because everything I found added to the Minecraft experience.

These new changes to Ore Generation, and, in particular, the nerf to chest sizes detract from my experience. They make it less enjoyable. Less fun. They make the game far more tedious and time consuming. I'm all for resource management. What I'm against is taking Resource Management to absurd levels, and forcing the player to make dozens of unneeded trips back and forth that weren't needed before.

Cool your heels bro.

Insulting a bad idea may be perfectly fine and acceptable and may I say strikingly handsome, but no need to insult people.

Dood is entitled to his opinion, as are you.

As for the sizes - are you a game designer? I'm guessing not. Because if people designed games based on what they thought they found fun, they'd swiftly realize that they are usually wrong about their own feelings.

say Johnny Q picks up Java and decides to write himself a game. Well Johnny likes RTS's, so he starts writing out a simple one. At one point, he figures it might be cool to add a unit you could upgrade independently from the others, and it could have special abilities. That would be pretty fun.

But it's not really easy to do upgrades like that without a leveling system, so he codes in one of those too. Playtesting, he notices the special character dies a lot. 'Well that's no fun', he thinks, 'maybe I should add potions to heal them?'. So he adds in those, and then has to make a special building where you can buy that the same way you buy other units like tanks and shit - it ends up becoming a shop.

And one 'fun' thing Johnny adds after another, until the game more closely resembles an RPG with light RTS elements.

,..Well that's cool and all, but there's one problem - Johnny doesn't like RPGs

You can't just add whatever you like to a game because you think it's fun - you have to remember to keep consistency with the original idea. This is what separates a proper game designer from your average Joe Blow - a designer knows when and what they have to sacrifice to keep consistency, tone, balance, and a whole cadre of other important elements that a game requires to be considered 'good'.

I once designed and coded a MUD in C. For fun. I have one of the backups if you'd like proof.

So yes, I have a very good idea of what is involved in making a game.

The thing is, if you allow an easy option, players swap to it when frustrated or "well just because X"

Not allowing it at all removes the temptation and maintains the challenge.

Basically, players don't always know what they find fun. It's a part of an overall experience.

<snip> I know what I find fun, and the reduced chest sizes are NOT fun.

Honestly I don't see anything wrong with the chests, I'm actually waiting for Bioxx to make the player inventories smaller to match the decrease in chest size.. Heaven forbid you'll have to make a dedicated storage area or work with other people on SMP....

Though honestly I can't say I've ever had anyone mess with my things on a SMP server without asking first, generally the communities I join or are part of we won't try to screw one another over.

I have no problem making warehouses.

The problem I have is I now have to devote more than three times as much space as before to making warehouses. I don't want to spend my time designing a 100x100, multi-story warehouse to house everything I find.

Furthermore, you don't seem to grasp the problem here.

If you reduce the player inventory, that means that if I find an ore vein, one of the current, massive ones, and we'll be very generous here and say I only have to traverse 1000m to get there from my warehouse, it would take me dozens of trips to mine, and then transport that material back to my giant ass, stupidly large warehouse. I don't want to spend LITERAL HOURS of my time CARRYING SHIT BACK AND FORTH.

THAT IS NOT FUN.

Thinking about that you could do similar thing with ores as with "rocks" in one of the recent updates (instead of flint on the ground u get the same stone as in the general vicinity) there could be small surface deposits but that tells you what ore is in that area. (say i found a small amount of iron on the surface i would know that if i went mining there i would likely find more.)

That is the best suggestion I have heard lately.

I don't find it believable that a human being is capable of carrying on their person four times the amount of materials that will fit inside a 1x1x2 meter box.

So do universal keys, such as hammers and axes.

Good luck hammering open a METAL BOX. Or cutting it open with an axe.

Not to be that guy, but I found a different mod to play with after the chest nerf happened. It destroyed the experience that I was enjoying so much about the TFC. I understand the want for a harder core game play but this was never thought out very well.

So, would you state, categorically, and for the record, that the changes to chest size are the reason you have stopped playing TFC? Are there any other factors involved in this?

If you're just going to throw insults around, I'm done arguing with you. Is it that difficult to have a good argument without calling someone an idiot?

All I'm saying is this mod is at the very least, a very basic mimicry of dwarf fortress within minecraft. If you've ever played dwarf fortress, the similarities are quite obvious. If you do not wish to play a mod that makes minecraft more similar to dwarf fortress, the problem isn't the mod the problem is you. If you don't want to play it nobody is forcing you.

Either way, your arguments seem to be that you aren't having fun. I'd like to point out that just because you aren't having fun doesn't mean everyone else isn't as well. I personally enjoy this method of ore generation, if you don't enjoy it nobody is forcing you to play, simple as that.

Actually, a lot of the people I play with, and people who play on my server tell me that they are not having fun. People have told me that they are going to quit the mod if these changes continue, and that they don't see new people wanting to play the mod at all with how stupidly tedious it's becoming.

"just as the game that served as the initial inspiration for this mod, Dwarf Fortress"

Well looks like you've got a problem then.

I'm sorry, can you show me where it says that the purpose of this mod is to make Minecraft INTO Dwarf Fortress?

Oh, wait. You can't. If you could comprehend the English language, you would understand the difference between being "inspired by" something, and trying to make something into something else.

combination locks date back to roman times.

SICDIXISTI

Or it could be a bad design change.

Exactly, but he really should have put in place all the stuff for an effective infrastructure first though, such as an early game mine cart alternative and smaller player inventories. That way, there might not have been so many people complaining

Or maybe he shouldn't have made changes that make the game far more tedious and time consuming.

If I wanted to play Dwarf Fortress, I would play Dwarf Fortress.

Dig to level 30-55. Straight down. If you don't find a cave with a shitton of ore, fill the hole back up with the stuff you just dug. Repeat, moving to a different biome. Takes me about nine holes now instead of eight hours.

Look, I'll explain this to you in very simple words that my godson would understand.

This change makes the game less fun and less believable. There should be surface deposits of ore literally weathering out of the rocks. That's the way it was long, long ago, before we dug it all up and used it. That is why you don't see them anymore. Not because they didn't exist, but because they have all been used up. When I generate a new Minecraft world, there should be surface ore.

"Dig straight down", you say. That's fine. Except I'm looking for specific ores. Starter ores. If I dig straight down I have no idea what kind of rock I will find, and, therefore, no idea of what kind of ore I will find. When there were surface deposits, I could simply walk around until I found Granite and I would have a great chance of finding cassiterite.

These changes make the game less fun. They make it far more tedious and time consuming. They were a bad idea.

Yeah, I've searched for about 12 hours on a map on SSP and not found ANY ore via this method.

This change was just a bad idea. It makes people not want to play the mod anymore.

Galvanizing an item to increase its durability and then regalvanizing it to repair it sounds good.

Funny you say that.... something like this?

Our server has enough copper to feed 3 servers. Not kidding. Same with Galena and cass obviously. Once we *find* iron, there will be no need to explore. Ever.

"Motherlodes" are one thing where you can bring back an inventory load and feel rich. Entire caves of nothing but copper, lead and cass are another.

That was entirely my point Total realism isn't fun, that's why I play games. I would think that's why this game's focus is believability.

The fact that I am failing to find any surface deposits isn't believable. As someone else already mentioned, they SHOULD be there. The only reason you don't see them these days is because people have already mined them out.

So, new Minecraft World == Surface Ore Deposits.

The oxygen point is valid, but warmer underground?

It gets colder when you go underground. Unless you plan on digging all the way to the mantle. Icebox rooms were always deep underground because the sun never reached to warm it up. It can get very cold underground. Plus, heat rises. If you have a basement, when was the last time it was warmer than the main level?

Also, warfighter67? Keep in mind the desert will be freezing cold at night, meaning that you will be doing all your metallurgy during the daytime.

No, it actually gets hotter the farther down you go. In real life.

This isn't supposed to be about "realism", it's supposed to be about "believability". Yet that must take a back seat to fun.

This mod has stopped being fun for me.

Between the chest nerf, and the change in ore generation, it's not fun any more.

Minimap practically is required. I cannot remember the location of every single vein of ore or location of clay or of animals. In about a week of play on one server I managed to accumulate over 300 waypoints, about two thirds of those representing ore deposits, and maybe 50 of them clay deposits.

Writing down that many sets of coordinates is one thing. Actually having to visualize where something is in relation to me is another.

Chickens should drop very, very large quantities of feathers. Far more than is suggested in this thread.

With animals taking so longer to give birth to new animals, arrows will become extremely scarce otherwise.

Yah I am seeing that as well. I think the server is running on a previous version. I am pree 44. You?

I'm pre44b. The server is running pre44b. Otherwise we wouldn't be able to connect to it at all.

I got an internal server error after cutting down a tree, now I can't log back in. I try to log in, and it says "Logging in," and then the text disappears, and the screen goes black.

Vanilla chests didn't store more than they should have. The only thing that possibly had a higher capacity for item storage was the player.

This is just a very bad idea. The whole point of this game is collecting a bunch of stuff and doing things with it. Anything that makes the whole point of the game ridiculously more tedious is bad.