Tsuarok

So... this may be old news for some of you, butCuchazis building theTall Worlds Mod, a cubic chunks mod which will raise the height cap from 256 to 16,000,000, setting the sea level at y=0 and going up and down by 8,000km. Obviously in order to use this in TFC, terrain generation would need to be modified rather heavily, but I think that it would be pretty much amazing to have this option in TFC. The mod isn't done yet, and will be released for 1.8, so we'll not see it here for a while, but this has me so excited I might just have to teach myself to code so that I can integrate this into TFC. Ocean trenches, actual mountains! I think this would be amazing!

I'll look into it, but I won't be able to do it for about two weeks; I'm going on vacation to the US on Friday.

Honestly, if possible, I'd like to see us getting away from UIs. Have the glory hole (or forge or whatever) be something that you hold right click in front of to heat the glass. You could shift-right click with the blowpipe to add some air in, or right click to spin it. Do either too many times and the product would be ruined (though you should be able to remelt it and try again).

Well that sounds amazing. Honestly, I was pretty much just joking; I don't think I'd have the time to introduce myself to java and go on to code something so complex within the lifespan of minecraft. About M3L, I don't think he really wanted to make it at first. I guess he felt that the forge team was somewhat hostile to his requests, and he wanted to do something that was completely open source and disallowed core mods as a way to ensure cross-mod compatibility. Something about being able to create your own hooks instead of modifying base classes. Whatever that means.

Unfortunately, my computer curls up into a little ball and cries for it's mommy when I try to record while minecraft is running. I could do a forum post with some pictures or something... though since MCEdit won't work with 1.8, and it looks like Codewarrior (the guy who made MCEdit) is MIA since 2013 or so, I'm not sure if it's going to be worth it. As long as it's not 1.8 (MCEdit doesn't work with 1.8), it shouldn't matter. He'll be replacing any vanilla blocks anyway. The MCEdit route basically just copies the shape of the terrain into TFC.

Yeah, like I'd said in the previous post, you are right. I wasn't really generalizing your opinion honestly; I've heard that opinion from many people, and in many cases (though not this one) it's not appropriate. Just frustrated at hearing yet again that compatibility is someone else's responsibility. I'm afraid I accidentally derailed the thread.

My bad. On topic: It looks like a really cool mod, and probably playable if the height were adjustable. Despite what I'd said earlier, I have to agree that there's little TFC should do in this regard. Either a compatibility addon or an adjustable height from the mod author would be needed. It should remain a separate mod, but I'd definitely check it out. It might be cool to have TFC add some code that changed the way some plants behave based on the weather if the mod is installed.

Sounds like I'll have a lot of work to do

Yeah, I was mostly just speaking in general. Nearly every time I suggest changes to compatibility I get the response that it's the other mod author's responsibility to use TFC's API, even for fairly basic things. This attitude would be fine if compatibility were not a stated goal of the mod, but it is. For most mod authors, compatibility with TFC is not exactly high on their list. If we want other mods to work with TFC, it's on us to make it happen.

Placing all responsibility with other mod makers is very limiting; why should other mods strive for TFC compatibility when most of the player base uses vanilla? If TFC truly wants to be compatible with other mods, effort needs to be made on our end to utilize APIs (when availible), request required hooks from the mod authors, etc. If not, stating that a goal of TFC is compatibility but placing all responsibility on others is disingenuous. Obviously other mods shouldn't be required for TFC, but effort should be made to make them run out of the box. If not, compatibility is simply not going to happen.

I haven't been on the forums much lately, so it missed your PM; sorry. Since you've started a topic on it, I'll just reply here. You could use either world painter or MCEdit to achieve this, but I'd suggest the latter. Basically, open the seed world in MCEdit, and copy all the terrain you want to use. Hopefully you'll have the required RAM. Next, create a new TFC world and look for a suitable spot to put your new terrain. It should have a similar distribution of plants to the terrain from the seed. Open this area in MCEdit, and paste in your new terrain. From here you can do one of two things. The easiest method would be to choose a rock type for the whole terrain and change out the sand, dirt, stone, and ores for TFC sand and dirt, and TFC stone (eliminating the ores). Plants will likely need to be eliminated. Select the area and tell MCEdit to have minecraft populate the terrain. This will get you your ores, plants, etc. Note, the rocks you get will be from the original stone layer, not the new stone. If you want to be a bit more seamless, you can match the materials to the underlying terrain, though this will take a really long time.

Just to chime in, I love the detailed models. They're awesome.

But... wouldn't this require all the relevant chucks to be generated? I mean, you could end up with a situation where tons of trees are generating and then suddenly a whole new continent exists that completely changes rainfall patterns, making the area a desert. Or could you maybe pregenerate a height map of ungenerated chunks allowing you to simply check if something is there? Oh, that would be really useful for improved river and lake generation too... no idea if it's possible though.

So, I understand that a current development goal in TFC is compatibility with other mods. I think that one of the few things that Mojang did right in it's implementation of survival was allowing mods. IMO, survival as it should be should include as much compatibility as possible (without making gameplay sacrifices). That said, I'd like to make a list of things that devs can look at for increasing compatibility with other mods. Please feel free to add any ideas you may have on this subject. 1. Return HP and damage to vanilla-reasonable levels. Many mods add in new mobs, and in every case, they simply don't stand a chance. Since damage can use floating-point values, this should have no other effect on gameplay. We should be able to keep the improved HP UI, and even display damage at current levels if desired. 2. Include a system to allow server administrators (and individuals in SP) to easily add in new alloy, leather, pottery, and anvil recipes. Progression in TFC is rather different than in vanilla, and it's awesome. To truly integrate mods that add tons of new abilities and items, these need to be carefully added in at the correct tier for reasons of balance. I'd recommend some system like Custom NPCs has for it's custom recipes, but a config file could be used as well, if it's easier. 3. Stabilize the other dimensions, and add the option for end frames/obsidian generation or crafting. Some mods use stuff from these places. While I have no desire to see them standardly available in TFC, there needs to be the option to enable them, and they need to function smoothly. 4. Biomes This is a really tough problem, since TFC changes terrain generation so much. In reality, while I feel that it's very important to allow mods that include custom biomes, I have no good ideas on actual implementation in the TFC system. Please post suggestions. 5. Dirt that is dirt Mod trees and other plants do not grow on TFC dirt. I'm not sure that this could be done, because there are not enough metadata slots to simply expand the dirt block, and limiting the number of dirt types for the sake of compatibility is not, imo, an option. But some way to convert trees, perhaps some type of whitelist in the config files, may be sufficient. 6. Structures Many mods add challenges in the form of structures, allowing partitioning of content based on challenge level. This is pretty fantastic, since it gives you something to work toward. Some way to add these into terrain generation would be good. 7. Villages Similar to the previous point, a great many mods expand on villages and their inhabitants. Like the other dimensions, these have no place in "vanilla TFC," but should be available if needed for other mod's content. I know that compatibility, while a development goal, is often trumped in terms of priority by other features. And that is okay. I'd rather have ya'll make the best mod you can, and then figure out how to make it work with other stuff. That said, it never hurts to keep compatibility in mind, because other mods can add so much to the TFC experience, and sometimes taking that extra step of asking yourself how this new system will interact with other mods can be quite worthwhile. Again, please feel free to add any ideas you may have to improve compatibility.

Could you not just copy the terrain from one side to the other? Maybe have it update on server reset.

Well, I guess I won't make that post asking for No Cubes compatibility...

Stairs seem like a reasonable compromise. Either that or make a ramp modal and ramp chisel mode. The modal would be to eliminate the extreme lag generated by freely-chiseled entities. That said, people successfully dragged wagons across the US prairies without roads, albeit somewhat slowly. I'd suggest a compromise, drastically reducing speed over non-flat surfaces. After all, these Romans build the roads to increase the speed of travel, not because it was otherwise impossible.

Awesome, ty Kitty

I used to do this in B77, but I thought they removed the ability, something about forge sky access... could be wrong though.

I successfully use it. If you have any problems, you can PM me for information on which mods I have under which tabs. I have a whole slew of different mods for different servers.

idk, a sawmill would be unnecessary in late game. By then you usually have all the wood you need. If they put it in, it should be a fairly early structure.

The sled would necessarily eliminate the AI though... the player would be in control, riding on the sled. Cool and fun idea. Also, horse-drawn sleighs were common during the winter, allowing rapid travel without needing roads. As other's have mentioned, it seems to me like it would fit in best with an inventory/transportation infrastructure update. Something like: Dogs and horses can rapidly pull sleighs on snow and ice, including going over 1 high blocks. Horses can slowly pull wagons over one high blocks, and rapidly pull over level ground and maybe stairs(roads incentive) Each dog/horse attached to the wagon/sleigh increases the speed, up to, say 6 dogs or 4 horses (but horses would be somewhat faster). Inventory stuff to make this worthwhile.

cNPCs only allows the creation of crafting table recipes (well, and their own crafting bench recipes, which is really just a 4x4 crafting table), though both the input and output items can come from any mod. As it often does when posting in these forums, my ignorance of more than the utter basics of programming is shining through. I'd sort of assumed that adding a TFC recipe would be a similar single line of code that would be simple to automatically generate if given inputs and outputs. Obviously this is not the case. Thanks for taking the time to explain it.

It's too bad that most of these will require third party programmers. As long as they are required to make this work, compatibility will be very slow moving. I suppose the devs could go ahead and make crossover compatibility for each and every mod individually, but that would be a huge amount of work. For #2, why could it not be done within TFC alone. The system Custom NPCs uses isn't a config option, it's a UI interface in game that looks like a crafting grid with an output slot. You put the ingredients into the grid, put the desired output item into the output slot, and it just saves the recipe for that world. Since the input and output items are chosen in game, all items from all installed mods are present, so there's no need to mess with item ids or anything. It seems to me a simple and elegant solution for TFC recipe integration. Say, an anvil interface were you put in the input and output, click out the rules, and it saves the recipe. Leather and pottery would be even easier (though I'm not sure I can actually think of any mods in which TFC pottery would be an appropriate crafting medium). Finally, alloys would simply have the same input and output slots, and some sort of field to set ratio ranges. I'm not sure why any of this would be impossible, or even very difficult, to implement.

I totally agree. I'd like them to make no compromises, but afterwards, go back and say, "How can we make other mods compatible with this." Note that that is not, "How can we make this compatible with other mods?". I hope that all of my suggestions, rather than weakening the superior systems put in place by the TFC team, simply allow one to build on these systems. My hope is that the second suggestion would allow people to tailor the progression in a balanced and fun way. The main reason that I'm not sure what to do about biomes, because compromising there is simply not the option I wish to be taken. I'm basically trying to suggest how to keep TFC more or less untouched while adding the option for using other mods.