Enzer

The problem is that even with AdBlock, you are still open to attack from malware and viruses. Menoch had their computer trashed by a virus provided by ad.fly's services.

While I wont agree on the point for charging for mods (I could go on for a long winded argument, but eh, everyone is entitled to their opinion), I will say that anyone who can afford to should donate to mod authors they wish to support. And if they are in a situation, such as myself, where money is too tight, then kind words of encouragement to the authors and supporting the mod via spreading the good word by mouth is also a way (I tell everyone I know about how awesome TFC is :V ).

Let us not forget the ad.fly links hidden in banner adds on forum users signatures linking to mods that require another ad.fly link to download! :V

I was just having this argument on the MCF. The API is presenting a controlled mod repository where mods will be stored by Mojang, instead of being hosted in a bunch of random file hosting sites linked to on a forums with, I have to say, pretty bad moderation. They will be screened and users can report mods that present a danger. Mod downloading will also be done via an in game interface (similar to how Gmod handles things), with servers presenting the choice to automatically download mods upon joining as well as listing the mods a server uses. This is going to be your best bet, though the modding API is still a ways out. For now, direct download is your safest bet, as killster550 stated, ad.fly does not screen their ads before putting them into the shuffle, they are also very slow to pull reported ads. Their site also claims that all ads are family friendly, but as I said, they do not screen their ads and before I took counter measures to ad.fly, I was getting a ton of pornographic ads, not really the best thing for a game played by a large child population. For mods that do not support direct downloads (which for now I think should be a mandatory option for those not willing to risk their machines), de-adfly should still work. You put in the ad.fly url and it spits out the url that ad.fly would eventually redirect you to after shoving an ad down your throat. I will worn you that systems like AdBlockPlus do not help against "drive by" viruses, trojans, malware. You wont see the ads, but the malicious code can still load, especially if ABP isn't updated for it. I have always been a protester against the use of ad.fly after receiving several viruses myself from their systems and I totally agree with Bukkits decision to not allow the use of ad.fly like services on their site. Honestly I am surprised people are shocked that the MC team is not allowing ad.fly on their mod repository (they have however said they are open to pay pal links for mods), since 3/4ths of the development team come from Bukkit. I do not believe in charging for mods, I cannot think of a single modding community that allows charging for mods. Modding really should not be about profits (though I understand that developers have to eat to), but it should be a hobby and treated as such. I respect the work and effort most mod developers place into their mods. That said, ad.fly is a horrible way to earn money off of your mod. For those not in the know, for ever unique download the owner of the ad.fly link earns .004 cents, a fraction of a penny. It takes 250 unique downloads to earn a US dollar. Ad.fly's minimal payout is $5 USD, so you have to get 1,250 UNIQUE downloads to receive any income from them. If you really want to show your support of a mod developer through money, donate $5, it is less than what most fast food joints charge for a meal and your donation outweighs what 1,250 people think is "support" for their favorite developer.

They said that they are releasing a new license agreement with the API, which makes me believe that monetizing issues will be settled there. To make things a bit clear, Jeb was indicating that the mod repository would be direct downloads, unlike on the Curse forums where mod developers are free to use those horrible ad.fly links. He cleared that developers are allowed to make money on personally owned websites (guessing ad revenue, google adsense would pay out a lot more in that case) or from youtube channel payouts. He stated that donations are also acceptable through means like paypal (and honestly, if you really want to show support for a developer, sending five bucks their way is a lot more than your .004 cents from your ad.fly download is going to mean). While not planned yet, the dev team stated that they are considering allowing developers to link paypal accounts to their mod's repository page. Honestly I am excited about this, an easier (supposedly, it will be better than the goddamn Curse forums for sure at least) to navigate repository of mods that I can access from in game, download without the worry of picking up a drive by virus from some shitty ad site, and automatic installation? Hell Yes. Going to be really disappointing in those developers who hee and haw over this. What I am hoping is that, to encourage the use of the repository, Mojang has curse close down their modding subforum, At least make it not a place to post mods, but to discuss.

It is the wording "First thing is that technic pack doesn't have permission from the modders, they just packed things up like they wanted to" makes it sound like they have no permissions nor care about getting permissions, makes it sound like they actively go out of their way to do so. Its this, lets rile up b/s about a pack because it has been considered the norm to hate on it, thing that bewilders me. Wording it as "Technic still doesn't have full permissions, so I personally am not comfortable with the mod pack" would be a factual and honest way of saying what you just said. "second there is no support from the modders if there is a problem in technic pack, they will curse you if say you're using it" While I will agree that mentioning Technic/Tekkit will get you yelled at by a lot of users, that is why they have set up their own forums and try to handle issues in house. Anywho, the TFC forums really isn't the place for this argument, so I'm going to shut up about it, feel free to PM me if you want to talk more about it.

I really wish that people would stop spreading this bit of misinformation around, the guys running Technic have been trying their best to get permissions ever since it became a public thing and have actively removed mods when they actually do get a response back from the mod developers in question. They are missing something like one or two permissions at this time. With that said, yeah I think it needs to be posted somewhere that Bioxx has already been quoted on saying he does not wish TFC to be part of any mod pack. He did that for people asking for changes to the pro. pick, why not something as common as this question?

My co-moderator has gotten Railcraft to work with very slight modifications. Being able to use TFC wood for wooden rail ties, creosote oil generation (as well as using TFC coal for this as well), wrought iron, steel and gold for rails. Doesn't take very long at all really, I would highly suggest disabling Railcraft's method of producing steel though for balancing reasons, otherwise it is very compatible (with slight alterations of course to replace recipe items with TFC variations).

Inventory space I would wager. You can make quick shafts down with this method and make the ladder as you go on, this means you do not have to waste space in your inventory with ladders and you can save your sticks for fire pits/torches or handles for tool heads you carry on you. Plus I always carry a hammer and chisel when I go mining, might as well use it and even a wrought iron chisel lasts a very long time. Also, as someone mentioned, it is also an aesthetic choice, if I'm digging out a very dwarfy looking keep, I'm not going to be using wood outside of support beams. You can also incorporate this into stone work on houses (the requirements for being considered a climbable surface are not too strict actually) and with a bit of work you can have hidden hand/foot holds all over structures. Speaking of climbable surfaces, anyone know if the feature of walking up one block tall surfaces will be attempted again? I know there were enough issues the first time it was attempted that it warranted pulling the feature, but I didn't know if any new news on that had been revealed.

Yeah, but that only shows the sprite work for the item icon, it also is very lame looking if you are trying to do decorations for a war room or an armory. Item frames are good for weapons, or hell shields would work nice with them (kind of, would be small looking now that I think of it), but there is so much detail in the actual render of the armors that it feels like a shame to store old sets into chests when you move up in materials and item frames do not do the armors justice. Honestly, armor is one of the best looking items in the mod currently, really nice designs, and I think that they deserve to be shown off.

Can this thread get deleted yet? It is past even the derailing of the topic's original intent. Do we really need a thread for Jale, this could all be handled using private messages if things are just going to be about bickering with him over nonsense.

Oh my god can we get this thread closed already? Bioxx has previously stated his thoughts on this before, not just about technic/tekkit and this thread is hurtling ever faster into flame war territory if not just a giant "Hur hur fuck technic, FTB is best" circle jerk that I predicted two days ago. Achartran is right, if publicity is something that is really a concern right now then there are a great number of ways of increasing that without resorting to something that Bioxx has previously stated he has in intent on doing. Hell, message Direwolf20, ask him to do an updated mod spotlight, he does update ones all the time, that is at most 88,253 subscribers finding out about this mod and word of mouth from that would drastically increase that number again. Hell, it would allow Bioxx to update his OP on the MCF with a video that is more up to date on features and changes. Other majorly popular mods (RP2, IC2, BC2, TC1-2-3, EE1-2-3, Forestry, etc) never relied on a third party installer to get to their current levels of popularity, why is it that TFC needs to join up with FTB, or any launcher or mod pack for that matter, to gain popularity. Everyone else was able to do it via word of mouth, forum banners and LP spotlights. Again, requesting this thread closed before it becomes another Tekkit-FTB echo-chamber. :/

I was just thinking about this while designing a new house based on the ones you build in the Hearthfire dlc for Skyrim. Armor stands would not only help with house decorations (war room anyone?) and storage, but they are almost like a way to show off your progress as you advance through the various materials. I agree that the stand should be a 3d model that displays that armor as if worn by a player as opposed to how the tool rack displays items. Maybe have it built by stacking four blocks of smooth stone on top of each other and chisel off layers to make a certain shape? When you get the right configuration the game detects it with the last block update and replaces the block stack with an armor stand model.

Really? It feels like it has been so much longer. Think it was around beta v1g I started playing ssp. Just double checked and Direwolf20 didn't do his mod spotlight until mid April, what the hell my perception of time is way off I swear. For reference we had the server running on beta 2 build 40. Why does it feel like it has been so much longer, either way all the more impressive what has been achieved in that time frame.

The Minecraft Modding topic on SomethingAwful was chatting about TFC for several pages something like a year ago(I am an idiot with no awareness of time), that is what I got interested in it. Helped ran a server running it in between official MC updates, spread the good word that way. Still play it SSP.

A little off topic, but Technic isn't dead. The reason they haven't updated in a while is that they make sure the main list of mods they want to use are not only updated fully, but are updated for bug fixes as well. They literally move as fast as the slowest mod is developed. The reason they are still on 1.25 is because RP2 is still a major part of Technic and RP2 was never released for 1.3, hell it still isn't released. What FTB did was decide to release the pack anyway and just add the last few mods that are still in development in when they get done. I can see this being a problem with certain mods like RP2 that do world generation and this is exactly one of the reasons they are holding up pushing out an update, they don't want to force users to generate a new world just because they wanted to get out there fast. They don't care about FTB, they don't see them as competition, they just do their own thing. The reason no one argues for Technic/Tekkit is because it has been asked for in the past, just as FTB is being asked for now, and the answer was no. *shrug* I don't think mod packs have to "survive" the API, really right now the only reason launcher based mod back exist is to bridge the gap in functionality that is missing from the vanilla system. The Minecraft development team acknowledges this missing infrastructure and has stated plans on fixing this and have actually laid out a very well thought out way of doing so. When this gets implemented, there will be no need for separate launchers that wont be something really petty that I am not going to get into. I really do not think that TFC would get anything positive, let alone "advertisement" out of including it in a mod pack. Menoch makes great points here and I strongly agree with him that the mod stands just fine on its own two feet. Hell, if it didn't, we wouldn't be here today. If advertisement was really a thing that has Bioxx worried (and I highly doubt that), there are much better ways of getting interest, the main one I can think of is updated mod spotlights by "big name" youtube users. And honestly, that is the only reason there is so much hype about FTB. The mods included in it are nothing new to older mod packs, it is just that there are, what, three or four "big name" youtube users in the minecraft community that are pimping the hell out of FTB? If I remember correctly, Direwolf20 did a spotlight forever ago, ask him to do an updated one, bam, there is your advertisement. However, again, I don't even think that is needed, everyone I've talked to who knows anything about modded minecraft has played or at least heard about TFC, that is at least a good 200 users from the server I help moderate on, not including the ones in other forums besides this one or the MC Curse forums. I also doubt that "larger community with ideas" is something that this forums would enjoy much. The one thing I like about this forums is that unlike the Curse ones, it isn't completely full of children and hasn't become a complete echo chamber. Now think about the current reactions of people in the Suggestions sub-forum suggesting things without searching for it beforehand or looking in that massive thread containing a list of already discussed topics. Now think about if a huge influx of people showed up to do just that, or to plague the Discussion sub-forums with "How do I" topics, there is a large group of people on these forums who would literally shit themselves in frustration. FTB would also not guarantee donations at all, in fact I would say it would detract donations as users using the launcher would be more inclined to donate through the launcher meaning those donations go somewhere else, since they wouldn't be directed to TFC's front page for information anymore.

See, that I can understand. I just don't understand people asking for it to be added officially to FTB, I have no idea how you would go about doing that and really don't think it would help with anything.

Annnd thank you for proving my point about FTB and Tekkit bickering. That last bit of your post really wasn't needed (as I wasn't supporting Tekkit nor FTB, but against both) and is also filled with the same false b/s I hear whenever this argument comes up. My argument is that there really is no reason to use FTB (or any launcher really) at all. It does not provide any benefit to those running the server, TFC isn't hard to install or manage, and probably early next year FTB and the majority of the installers are going to be at the very least obsolete by the new system in place by Mojang, if not broken by it entirely. I have yet to see a solid argument for getting the mod on FTB, I honestly do not think that "publicity" is a good reason, I think TFC is pretty well known and the fact that it doesn't play well with others is probably going to discourage any new users that would be gained by FTB as the majority use it for the technical mod package. And either way, isn't FTB set up to allow users to add mods via the launcher interface? Why does it need to be officially part of a packaged provided by FTB?

I'd, personally, would really rather not see TFC included in any launcher program. At least for our server, there would be issues with getting users to use FTB, or Tekkit, it doesn't really matter which really, users dislike both for various reasons. I also really don't like the idea of TFC getting placed into FTB, when you do you have to play by their rules and standards. Honestly, with how Forge is right now, installing TFC is really rather easy. I do not understand why adding an additional layer on top of this is a good thing, you do understand that if MC updates, even if TFC updates, if FTB launcher isn't updated, you are kind of shit out of luck. That is how all the major launchers work. The next reason I think this isn't a smart move is that it is going to pull TFC into the massive flame war between FTB and Tekkit users. You may not think this, but choosing one or the other would cause people to flood these forums to bitch and nit pick. Then there is the issue in using the launcher for just one mod, I really don't see that go over very well. Again, TFC is incredibly easy to install by itself, sure there are a lot of mods that some users like to instal alongside it (Rei's Minimap, Smart Moving, etc), but not everyone uses those mods. If you did package those mods with TFC, then TFC is anchored to their development cycles, you would also have to get permissions to use those mods in a pack as well.. Finally, whenever MC's API does eventually make it out, Grum and EvilSeph have already confirmed that they plan to allow clients to download necessary files when entering a modded server. This effectively would make launchers more or less obsolete. This is what they seem to have currently planned in that regard, according to Grum: a plugins name is unique (and can contain no spaces and only 'simple characters')a plugin has a versiona plugin is a jar the plugin jar could perhaps contain a file with meta information (could be 100% optional)plugins will be loaded when loading a 'game' (so you select the world and play it)plugins will not be able to unload/reload (configuration can obviously)the client has little to say (bar conveying which input it gets) thus 'cheating' with it will be significantly harder (sure xray you can still do, and lots we can do against that)servers will not 'feed' the client plugins, they will tell which name/version is required and the client will download that from a central repository this could later be extended to allow either direct download from a server and or a thirdparty location (but not initially and perhaps never)obviously the storage will have hashes of the data and those hashes will be checked for whatever gets downloadedany code running on the client (if any at all) should be severely sandboxed)We will need ingame menus to be able to easily control plugins, updating, reinstalling, uninstalling and obviously selecting which ones you want to run for a particular world.In short, I understand that people are excited over FTB since it is a new and shiny toy, and I've noticed that a lot of the excitement is carrying a lot of anti-tekkit mentality, but honestly this mod does not need any of that. It proposes too many issues and opens not only the community to a lot of problems, but could be detrimental to development.

The problem with stained glass if when you are looking through multiple blocks lined up in a row that are all different color, with Minecraft's rendering system as it is, z-buffering begins to shit itself. Basically there are two ways to do it in that case. One way makes it look nice, but your frame rate will tank and performance is going to die, or it looks really really bad and your game still gets a performance impact, but not as bad. Now what the majority of the stained glass mods do is the smart thing in that they tell the game not to render any other glass that is present on the other side of the block. So if you had two blocks of glassed lined up, one blue the other yellow, you would not see green looking through them, you would see whatever color the block is that you are looking through at the time. This is very easy on performance and gets the job done. Now getting colored lighting via colored glass.. that is something that just isn't possible with how MC handles lighting, as it is done in a really ass backwards way.

Unsure about rarity, but they are not renewable as they do not have saplings. Once you cut them down, they are gone.

You could just decrease the current spawn rate for small rocks by, say, a third, and then have these outcroppings have a chance to generate every few chunks. Chunks that contain an outcropping have more small rocks that spawn in them, with the majority of them clumped around the outcropping. That way it doesn't really impact early gameplay by starving players for small rocks and provides, as others have mentioned, surface stones to work on as a temporary anvil until they are able to craft their first one. It would also add more terrain features, which I am always for, breaking up the world a little bit and being a clear indication of the type of rock in the stone layers below (yes, I know you can glance at small rocks, but this would be a good indication if you are further away).

I think this has been blown a little bit out of proportion. If this was the case of things like TFC's smelting and metal working system being lifted or systems like the charcoal pit were copied, that would be a reason to be irate, even if they had original code. However, that really isn't the case, that mod uses very simple concepts: Sticks come from tree branches, doesn't make sense to be able to punch a section of a tree trunk off a tree, people usually cannot carry several stacks of cubic meter bits of dirt, stone and wood, early tools were made with flint, loose stone doesn't make as much sense and flint is a vanilla item. Many of these things I have seen before in other mods. I can understand the authors of TFC not being very happy with this, but it is no where near the scope of TFC and doesn't seem to encroach on any of the unique ideas, concepts or implementation. Now if it turns out code was copied or down the road the other mod author starts implementing features very specific to TFC (again, metal working is a great example, many ways to do this and having something similar to how TFC pulls it off would be blatantly ripping it off). I guess I am just weary when mod authors start talking about disliking other mods using similar ideas or concepts, I can understand why, but it is really bad for the mod community. What would happen if no one was allowed to implement features already present in other mods? Someone makes a mod where you can no longer punch trees, now all mods HAVE to allow punching trees, else they are ripping off. A better example would be a lot of the technical mods. IC2 and RP2 both have solar panels, IC2, RP2 and BC3 (among many others) all have ways of producing electricity and all have some kind of wire system to transport them. It is just a very slippery slope argument. As long as the guy is not ripping off actual code, I say forget and move on, TFC isn't a commercial product so there isn't much point to get worked up. Competition is good, it allows you to gauge how good of a product you are producing and helps encourage that you make sure that what you are making is the best out there (not saying that you don't already). Take it like this, before there really wasn't anything like TFC at all. If people asked me if the mod is any good, I would say yes and just kind of list off features, now that there are smaller mods in similar genre (realistic/believable survival, etc) I can name good points about TFC and say that it is the best mod of its type by a long shot.

Having an open forum for suggestions also allows for community feedback on suggestions. This often puts a suggestion under fire and in the end bad suggestions die off while ones that have some note to them turned out more polished and thought out then what was originally suggested. In my own opinion, suggestions that have been discussed by the community beforehand are usually in a better state to bring to the developer's attention (you get a lot of the pros and cons already discussed and methods of execution, saves time).

Another use for the wax could go with the idea that has been kicked around for preserving food. Clay jars could be filled with foodstuff and then wax could be used to seal them. Hell, you could do some neat things like use that as a method of producing Fruit Preserves.