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Jasnatdic

Butchering

37 posts in this topic

I've seen several suggestions about mutton on sheep, calamari on squid, and so on. How about when you kill an animal it drops a carcass, for instance you kill a cow, instead of getting 3-4 steaks you loot a carcass. You then take said carcass to your butcher apparatus and can then break down the animal into sections, this would allow and of course require a more diverse meat selection. From various steak types, ribs, hamburger, organ meats, and so on.

This could also allow you to have scrap cuts for feeding your dogs, give you bones you can clean and dry and grind to bone meal for various uses.

Bacon you could combine with eggs, and toasted sliced bread for a nice hearty breakfast.

Squid would drop a dead squid you have to process to extract the ink, and can trim off squid steak, and calamari rings, and so on. Fish that you can crudely cook like vanilla, or process and make hearty meals by combining with other things. Maybe remove vanilla fish and add different breeds of fish depending on the biome, and benefits to seeking out certain fish. If doable even maybe certain health buffs from certain fish, or dishes made from those fish, or it could even just be something like salmon from the ocean could increase food by a lot.

Obviously nothing bloody or anything, but it could require forged tools.

Another note, slaughtering a sheep will drop NO usable wool, or at the very least dirty wool that would need to be cleaned and then combed to remove bits of dirt, sticks, shrubs and all the other goodies a sheep gets in their wool. To go with this make it so sheared sheep wool also needs to be combed.

Change the bead recipe to bags of feathers on planks, this would keep beds accessible early without needing tools to clean wool, as you can pluck feathers off chickens and wash them quite easily.

So to expand on the op and better describe the system as I see it I am imputing an edit here. This will explain the process from "you killed a cow/sheep/pig/bear(yes you can eat bear)/other large animal" to how you get a 750 pound carcass across the field to the table, to "now were eating filet."

So basically in a realistic not hormone fed fashion, a cow would weigh in at around 750 lb, pig like 450, sheep like 100ish, brown bear like 500, and that's about it for now for the large animals. This basically means that there is ZERO way to actually carry around all but a sheep. Chickens are like 7-8 lb max, fish like 50 max for large fish, unless were talking about adding King Salmon, Sturgeon, Shark, Swordfish, and so on. So, i will just explain the process as a cow, being the current largest animal present in the game with TFCraft.

Before all this though you need a knife to chop up your cow, a crude knife will work for now but you will need to refine this later.

Step 1) You have just killed a cow. That animal weighs a random weight of approx 750lb + or - 20%. This means that that cow you just killed is 600-900lb, and unless you are on steroids and meth your not moving it. So what do you do, you have no cart, you have no way to move it, its a carcass in a field. Well, the carcass just lays there, you have one option and that is to carve off some meat and carry it home. This fallen carcass will be harvest-able for 2 minecraft days. However a dead cow in a field also has the tendency to attract hungry beast of the meat eating persuasion. This means that bears or wolves in range will eventually smell this carcass and come looking for a meal, and if your there possibly challenge you to get it. Also carrying around these sections of carcass back to your house can also attract predators. So this means carcass in field is bad but a necessity as you have no other choice and are hungry and needing meat. The meat from this Carcass is crudely cut and inefficient leaving you with only a percentage of the real amount of meat and resources available, say 40% of the actual meat which i will explain in real detail later on.

Step 2) You now have some crudely carved meat that is carried back this meat is nourishment but nothing special. This means basic steaks or maybe ground into hamburger on your butchers table. Congratulations, you now have some meat, you cook it up and are satisfied at the tasty reward for your hard work.

Step 3) You soon come to the conclusion that all of this carrying of heavy sections of cow across the land and being chased by wolves and bears is totally the wrong way to do it. Why don't we raise our own cattle on our homestead, in the safety of a nice fence, or even better a stone wall. Great idea, but how do we go about this. The first thing we do is build a cattle yard and lure the unsuspecting walking feast in, but you cant bread just one cow so you lure in a few more. So now you start to feel satisfied as you breed your cattle and the young calves grow into young adults and are getting close to an age that they can be used as food. As your cattle grow you start to thing, and your going to need something to process these huge heavy animals on, your also going to need some place cool to keep them from rotting in the hot sun. So we get to the next thing, all the different structures and apparatus you need.

A) A cool place to store meat. This is likely to be a nice hole in the ground deep enough to escape the hot sun. 5+ meters under the surface across most the the world the ground temperature is around 50-55F year round. So we dig a pit, frame it up with timbers to support all the lovely insulating earth above and close and cover it up. So let us say for rule sake that these cool storage areas have to have at least 5 blocks of earth over top of them and can be a room that is up to 7 by 7 blocks and 3 blocks high, and would allow for a chute or cart system to get the meat down, as this hung carcass is still way to heavy to lift. (more on this later) Carcasses stored in here will decay and become unusable and require disposal after a month game time.

B) A hanging rack. Can me made of anything strong really, so either hardwood such as ash, or oak, or hickory, or maple, or it can be made of metal, but being metal would delay its construction. So, for ease sake lets have it made of hardwood, so certain types of wood, and rope, and bolts or nails. This apparatus has a couple of uses pertaining to the hanging of a carcass. It keeps the meat off the ground of course, but more than that it has a gui that allows for the basic breakdown of your meat. This is where you store and section off cuts of meat. If you have a hanging rack within 5 blocks of the slain animal you have an option to hang the carcass and then process it properly. It is also what you put into your cold storage area to hold the meat there too. This is where you place the entire animal, skin it, cut off waste, clean out all those nasty bits inside. You can also extract organs for making food items, liver and onions maybe, or kidney pie, or maybe intestine for sausage skins in the case of pigs, haggis maybe with sheep stomach.

C) Butchers Table. This is obviously where you cut up your meat, and if upgraded can also grind the meat to hamburger, or what have you. This is for sectioned off meat from your hanging rack, or early on the cuts of meat you bring back from that oh so dangerous carcass in the field that you have to defend from bears. The final stage of meat refinement take place here, steaks, ribs, hamburger, and whatever else you feel like cutting.

D) A cool place is fine, 50 degrees is ok, its not going to prevent bacteria or decay forever so what do we do now. We make an ice pit, what is this, well this is basically your storage room deep underground, but with blocks of ice in it. This ice will cool the room way down to around 32 degrees, but first you need to find ice, and then harvest it, and then get it back to your pit and THEN get enough of it to keep the room cool for a year until winter comes again and you can get more. A carcass stored in this area will remain usable for 3 months before it needs to be disposed of.

Step 4) So now we have a all we need to hang and cut and store our meat. Except that we only have a crude knife, you cant cut through bone with this, you cant really process your finished cuts of meat very well. so we make a knife set, a small knife for the finer work, a butcher knife for the bulk work, and a cleaver for the heavy hitting. Other than this knife set we also need a bone saw for cutting through bone and cutting our sections off of our carcass properly. This saw can either be a new item from smiting, or just a regular saw that already exists, but I don't think I would want to use the same saw to process meat/bone and trees.

So now for the finer points.

A carcass of a cow, uncut, unprocessed, you punch it and it lays there dead. This weighs 750lb +/- 20% so 600-900lb, but this isn't all meat. You have hides, bones, gristle, tendons, cartilage, and waste from the organ cavity. in reality a 750 lb cow would only yield 450lb of usable meat, or a hung weight of 500lb. This means a weight loss of 1/3, or 33% from carcass to hanging, and then there are still a percentage of bones left on the cow. Ribs, 7 bone chuck roast and such. This brings us to how you calculate the meat on the carcass. Cow dies, it is assigned a random value 750+/-20%, if the carcass is harvested on the ground in the field it automatically reduces the meat value from 66% to 30%, this means you would receive no more than 220lb of meat from a 750lb carcass. If this carcass is hung properly and processed you would get 66% of the total weight in hung meat or approx 500lb. As mentioned above carcass on ground in field is more crudely cut so simple steaks, or hamburger. However a hung and processed carcass you cut all the tasty bits, rib steak, new york steak, flank steak, skirt steak, chuck steak/roast, kabobs, stir-fry, imagine the possibilities. Each of these cut sections would have a weight. for instance the rib section, say 20 lb for a rack. This rack of ribs would then break down into 4 rib sections to be used in meals. A Rib-eye (or rib-steak) section would weigh 40lb and break down into 4 rib-steaks and so on. Each carcass would have 2 of each section but you can only process a certain amount.

So this is basically the process, start to finish, leaving you with various cuts of meat.

Obviously certain animals have certain benefits, bacon for instance, and ham on a pig. So the cuts on a cow would be different from a sheep, or pig, or bear. All these new meat options would of course require a total food and cooking system to support it and more well thought benefits for specific dishes and so on.

Becides meat on the carcass there are also useful items in the "waste" portion. Leather hides to be cleaned and tanned, bones to be cleaned for bone-meal, wool to be cleaned and processed, or maybe throw a nice meaty bone to your hound as a treat. Lots of room for possibility here.

Then we have things such as chicken, or fish, or squid. a chicken could stay as it is, you kill it and get a whole chicken, and some feathers. However maybe you get a whole carcass and have to pluck dress and process it. and your skill in plucking and dressing it could result in more feathers. perhaps the normal large feathers in vanilla for use for pens or such for use in other mods, and then down feathers to be used to make pillows and mattress, and armor padding for quilted armor. Fish as mentioned above can remain the same, you fish, you cook it, or you cut fillets off it and make a meal. But, maybe you don't catch vanilla fish, maybe you catch any of a number of breeds of fish with different properties. Squid, you bring in the whole squid and have to process it for ink and various cuts of delicious food stuffs. None of these would require hanging to process but to properly pluck a chicken you dip it in scalding water to loosen the pores to pluck the feathers, and then process them on the butchers table.

After all of this you have many byproducts such as bone, leather, wool, scrap cuts, and so on for all kinds of dependent skills. Cooking, tailoring, farming, feeding your dogs, bear traps with meat bait...

Anyhow that's about it for now.

Edited by Jasnatdic
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A very nice idea. Most of it has been posted in other threads but never with as much explanation or in one place. Nice work hope you have more worth while ideas.

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Change the bead recipe to bags of feathers on planks, this would keep beds accessible early without needing tools to clean wool, as you can pluck feathers off chickens and wash them quite easily.

yknow i was playing skyrim today and noticed that alot of the beds were straw matresses with furs on top, maybe we could do something like that for a crude bed?

also, if we make different teirs of beds, there should be some reward for making higher teir beds

ooh we could have a fatigue or energy bar and sleeping would restore it, but sleeping on a better bed would obviously give you a better nights sleep and restore more?

and you should be able to make a sleeping bg for if you're traveling and dont feel like carrying around a big heavy bed, it obviously wouldnt give you a great slep or reset your spawn but would at least get you through the night

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Very nice idea! Was just thinking "in real life, one cow wouldnt just feed one or two people.."

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The idea of butchering animals is awesome. The way of kill a cow get a few steaks has always bothered me. Growing up on a cattle ranch taught me that one slaughtered cow could feed our family of five for a whole year and we ate beef for nearly every meal. A pig will also do close to the same. A way to keep this from bering over powered of, I killed 4 cows and now I have food indefinitely would be that you need some type of cold storage or spoilage system. That one cow will feed people for a year if it's kept in a deep freezer so steve needs a way to store and keep his food for periods of time.

Second, I like the idea of dirty wool. We raised some sheep and to be blunt, they are dirty damn animals. A process of cleaning wool would be awesome and it could tie into the other ideas of looms and making clothes etc.

Lastly, more fish! fishing right now is so stupid and not worth the effort so I'm all for more fish types and better methods of fishing.

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*headdesk*

It's like nobody knows how to use the search function...

There's already been a HUGE thread on butchery, complete with GUI pics and everything.

I like the suggestions you made about food though.

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This could be added into a bigger "cooking" idea. This way, creating first the apparatus for decent and the basic cooking in different stages (As we already have like the first stage, that is just "throw-everything-into-the-fire" and wait to see what happen).

Then the suggestions could split for materials and gathering methods, now gathering ingredients for the recipes and foods.

Then could return to the ways of cooking, creating then the different modes, like butchering, ways to take feathers of the dead chicken, ways to mix spices, ways to whatever more.

The problem is that cookind is so large, that we have a limit on it. Minecraft have a limit on ID items, as I know, so a mod could only add X number of new items?

We need a really simple way of cooking, if that's true.

Butchering like this is nice, I like the idea of a "dead corpse", of just a carcass, and you need to clean that up to reveal the usable raw materials.

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More Block ID room will be added soon it won't really be a problem after that. But what I had thought for the cooking idea was a single table and GUI with a 3x3 grid for combos. And then just a tool slot so certain actions could be performed on the food. Cooking would still be over a fire until some kind of oven block is added.

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I really think cooking need to be a fun system. Not just another system with a thousant recipes.

Knapping, for example, is unique in some way, and is fun for me. I really enjoyed it. Even beeing just a "recipe with 5x5" like plans was, still, is fun and all the way to do it is nice and joy. xD

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...

The problem is that cookind is so large, that we have a limit on it. Minecraft have a limit on ID items, as I know, so a mod could only add X number of new items?

We need a really simple way of cooking, if that's true.

...

Well just plain old vanilla minecraft code allows for some 40K item IDs and I'm sure bioxx could even expand on that if need be.

More Block ID room will be added soon it won't really be a problem after that. But what I had thought for the cooking idea was a single table and GUI with a 3x3 grid for combos. And then just a tool slot so certain actions could be performed on the food. Cooking would still be over a fire until some kind of oven block is added.

Yeah... I actually had a decent suggestion for an oven block in another thread, but then I researched it and saw that the kind I was suggesting (metal stoves) were too recent of an invention so I changed it to brick. Brick cooking stoves are old as fuck.
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Would you like it we added Cooking mama minigames in whenever you opened the table instead. Since when has cooking been more than throwing food on top of itself? I said something about tools you could make a game out of that, I guess.

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Would you like it we added Cooking mama minigames in whenever you opened the table instead. Since when has cooking been more than throwing food on top of itself? I said something about tools you could make a game out of that, I guess.

...*twitch*

no cooking mama...

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Since when has cooking been more than throwing food on top of itself?

Sammich = food thrown on top of itself... :D

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I just thought of a correlation between the new animal breeding that is being worked on and this.

As i understand breeding it will take approx 6 minecraft months for animals to go from birth to adult, this means if you have 2 breed-able cattle you can get 1 slaughter-able renewable animal. This means you cant just spam a cow with wheat and have unlimited steak, and with the suggested storage times of 1 month in a cooler and 3 months in an ice cooler you would need to be diligent at maintaining a moderate herd of animals. At least 1 bull and 6 cows with a constant food supply to keep them supplying beef for you, or 1 bull and 3 cows with an ice cooler.

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Cooking is all about timing, right heat, and correct ingredients. Not just throw everything into the fry/pot. This could actually result into soup, or some kind of sauce.

Could be something like making potions: You try to add some ingredients. That could do result in something correct and tasty, something eatable, or could result into trash/burned food. :P

You need to master it by doing some tries, research, and make some food that, for example, could fill all the hunger bar. Or just make someting eatable, that fill just like a Rotten Flesh. Or just crap food that could decrease the hunger bar and give poison. xD

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What mechanic would you suggest because cooking mama is not an option and adding ingredients as an experiment is the same as throwing food on top of itself.

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Could be something like making potions: You try to add some ingredients. That could do result in something correct (...) or could result into trash/burned food.

:)

And what is that cooking mama? I never played that. o-o

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YOu are pretty much suggestion something like elder scrolls, and the second part of bsb's post.

[Almost complete Cheese Wheel + Rest of the Cheese Wheel = Potion of Stamina ???]

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Not resulting in potions, but a simple cook system like the existing brewing potions on minecraft. You add ingredients, that result in some new food.

Anyway, the suggestion of the thread is about butchering, so I will stop here the talk from cooking. Sorry. :(

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This NEEDS to be in the game ASAP, especially since it taking 40 hours to get one measly cow, when slaughtered only gives you 3 steaks max, which is ridiculous considering the time it took to raise the cow. At the very least, as a placeholder, have it so that cows drop more steaks and leather, maybe 9+.

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Ha, people are thinking a little too modern for long term storage of meats.Ice Boxes are fairly new, the only people who had them were the very rich who could afford to have ice brought down from mountains Every Day, it was quite a luxury and a good way to show off by having ice in drinks or.. shaved ice!(Greek shaved Ice, Italian my ass!). It wasn't till basically in this past century that we got electric coolers/freezers that could effectively store raw meats.

To keep meats fresh for long periods of time we have always Smoked, Salted or dehydrated our meats, this did two things

1) It partially cooked it and for those that don't know cooked food takes longer to spoil then raw food.

2) It made for a hostile/poor environment for bacteria

I know in a few select places they froze their meat simply because of where they were.. But that is just a stupid argument

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Ice Boxes are fairly new

Not really, in areas which froze over during winter they would store the ice in underground bunkers of sorts so that ice would be available year round, and so that they could use it to store perishables in. This isnt new at all, many hundreds to thousands of years old. Midevil times were only 5-800 years ago, roughly. This is what i was suggesting, not a refrigerator.

It would require you to find ice biomes in winter and harvest ice, but that's the point.

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I dont know if any of this is repeated, but comment on it if you like, this was posted as a seperate thread before I realized that someone had already posted a similar idea

Since you have implemented a long pregnancy period and male/female animals there are a few suggestions to go along with this.

Some sort of nest object to incubate chicken eggs.

First thing, need to be able to tell WHICH animals are male, this is not just a size issue, male cows dont have udders.

Chickens should molt feathers at some regular interval, and one should have the ability to harvest some feathers from a chicken (this should visibly change the chicken to indicate that it cannot be done again until the chicken recovers.)

Butchering/Leathercrafting

When an animal dies, it should spawn an immobile corpse entity that you then have to butcher with appropriate tools to obtain useful items.

In the case of chickens, killing a chicken should give a fair number of feathers, and when you butcher it you get the meat as usual.

Lamb/Mutton should be added as well as veal now that you have put animal ages in.

and since we're implementing this butchering thing why not go whole hog and add a either leather type for each animal or at least the ability to collect leather from all appropriate animals. (pretty much all except chicken)

So before collecting the meat, one has the opportunity to skin the beast and collect the raw skin.

The skin then must undergo the tanning process, however you will desire to implement this is fine.

I know it involves stripping the fur and stretching the hide to allow it to dry, beyond that I'm a bit fuzzy.

Butchering the animal should provide meat items proportional to its SIZE (since you implemented size), and appropriate for the general sizes of each animal type. Getting only a chance of 1-3 steak and 1-3 leather per cow (or however this drop rate stuff works) results in a lot of dead cows and no meat which is just silly with such a long breeding process.

Butchering the animal and removing the meat should leave a skeleton, which you can break to get some number of bones. (and maybe skull items for decorations)

idea: (a way to make wall trophies, like animal heads, from the corpses)

This means:

Cows and Bears produce a lot of meat

Sheep, Pigs, Dogs would produce medium amounts of meat

(deer if you ever add them will have a fair amount of variability in their size so they're likely to waver between a lot and medium amounts, unless you kill a young one, where you'll barely get anything.)

Chickens will just produce the one chicken, and ether a weaker sort of bone than mammals, or no bone at all, if you prefer that..

animal types that would be fun to see implemented:

Deer

Horses

Mountain Lions & Bobcats

Other birds.

Water creatures (frogs/toads/etc)

More types of fish, that are actually mobs rather than just food items spawning from fishing pole on water.

We dont want this to turn into mocreatures, but I think you're doing a better job already.

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Mo' Creatures job was to add not recreate and in that they have done excellent. Most of these have been discussed any thing that has to do with chickens look at the page nearby that has something to do with feathers. We have decided on a method of butchering, cleaning, and so forth in the previous butchering thread. The most interesting idea is the individual leathers/furs i suppose that would make sense but maybe groupings instead between just furs, wool, and hides suitable for leather.

EDIT: just realized you posted this elsewhere and i forgot to say that nests would be awesome as well as distinction between sexes.

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there really ought to be a way to get bones besides the magical skeleton creatures, and on top of that, it makes sense to allow bone handles for things like knives and swords hilts if they're carved bones

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