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Srgnoodles

Sheilds and Blocking

23 posts in this topic

Adding to the whole idea of a combat overhaul, i decided to post my ideas of a blocking system

first, all mob damage would be amplified by quite a bit, one does not simply take a sword wound and keep walking like nothing happened

so, to counteract this, you would need to block attacks.

you would do this if you had a weapon, just like vanilla blocking if you had just a sword

in order to block effectively you would need to craft a sheild. early game sheilds would be made of wood or wood reinforced with metal strips, maybe even leather sheilds reinforced with metal.

sheilds would take up a "hand" (either right or left, depending on if you want your character to be right or left handed) slot on your character, negating the use of dual weapons.

just having the sheild would increase armor by quite a bit but the way you use it is the fun part

pressing a certain key would make you raise your sheild, you move slower with your sheild raised

also, there would be a "block" or "stamina" bar that slowly depletes as long as you have your sheild up. also, if an enemy hits you while your sheild is raised, the attack will be blocked. blocking an attack would take a chunk out of your stamina bar. heavier sheilds (heavy metals such as iron, steel and such) would drain the bar quicker but take less out when you get hit and vice versa with ligher sheilds( wood, wood reinforced, tin, and other light metal)

blocking would negatemost of the damage, increasing as the quality of the sheild does (up to really high end sheilds negating all damage)

blocking a hit would also decrease the durrability of the sheild

metal sheilds could be made of metal plates and leather straps where as the reinforced sheilds would be made with metal strips attached to an existing wood sheild

any ideas or suggestions are greatly appreciated

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I don't completely agree with some things, but the idea of completely reworking combat to make it more robust and fluid is a great idea. I definitely want to see shields and dual wielding too.

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I've always felt dual wielding was a bit excessive in this game, think of the balance implications in multi player. In real life using two weapons does not really give you much of an advantage over a weapon and shield combo. But in minecraft it would make you a spammy death ball of doom. There would need to be a downside to it other than ranged vulnerability. As for Shields, as long as the mobs become more powerful I'm all for it ! +1 to your well thought out and balanced solution. Might I suggest you add the possibility of shield bashing while blocking to break out of defensive positions ?

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I've always felt dual wielding was a bit excessive in this game, think of the balance implications in multi player. In real life using two weapons does not really give you much of an advantage over a weapon and shield combo. But in minecraft it would make you a spammy death ball of doom. There would need to be a downside to it other than ranged vulnerability. As for Shields, as long as the mobs become more powerful I'm all for it ! +1 to your well thought out and balanced solution. Might I suggest you add the possibility of shield bashing while blocking to break out of defensive positions ?

well seeing as mobs dont really block your attacks, maybe sheild blocking could stun them?
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well seeing as mobs dont really block your attacks, maybe sheild blocking could stun them?

It was more said with an eye to multiplayer. You'd have to try to get stuck in a defensive position with vanilla MC mobs :P

If shield blocking stunned it would be a bit op, especially as you can block over time, making you a bit too powerful perhaps ?

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It was more said with an eye to multiplayer. You'd have to try to get stuck in a defensive position with vanilla MC mobs :P

If shield blocking stunned it would be a bit op, especially as you can block over time, making you a bit too powerful perhaps ?

true but if you do get hit without blocking you would take a massive hit to your health

making the first nights even more challenging, because i remember when i used to actually be afraid of the night and the mobs that came with it.

when i think of it i think of night falling on a town and everyone baring their doors and shuttering their windows and cowering indoors while a few brave warriors try to fight of the impending invasion

all in all i want to make the mobs/ nighttime a real threat to players even if they have armor and good weapons

as for multiplayer, sheild bashing should be able to stop an incoming attack and maybe stun for like half a second or less, more of a daze than a stun but really drain your sheild stamina bar

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At this point, I'd suggest at least having it so that you can only use the block key if the shield is on your hotbar, or your selector is close to the slot with the shield -bonus points if the proximity of the selector to where the shield is on the hotbar affects the power/efficiency of the shielding- if dual wielding is out the window, due to awkwardness, or issues with frenzying.

[in fact, I endorse that last option, it rewards inventory management, or quick-drawers , without adding the arbitrary fiddling of using an advanced gui, or two selectors]

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At this point, I'd suggest at least having it so that you can only use the block key if the shield is on your hotbar, or your selector is close to the slot with the shield -bonus points if the proximity affects the power of the shielding- if dual wielding is out the window, due to awkwardness, or issues with frenzying.

hmm i was more thinking of using the "equipment" screen some people were suggesting and if you put the sheild there you could always have it on your arm but only raise it when you need to
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true but if you do get hit without blocking you would take a massive hit to your health

making the first nights even more challenging, because i remember when i used to actually be afraid of the night and the mobs that came with it.

when i think of it i think of night falling on a town and everyone baring their doors and shuttering their windows and cowering indoors while a few brave warriors try to fight of the impending invasion

all in all i want to make the mobs/ nighttime a real threat to players even if they have armor and good weapons

as for multiplayer, sheild bashing should be able to stop an incoming attack and maybe stun for like half a second or less, more of a daze than a stun but really drain your sheild stamina bar

Ok you've got me sold, the image of the town was just great :) A half second stun would make sense, but is there some way of limiting it to when you interrupt an attack or something ? (as per skyrim ?) because if not, I can already envision seas of shield equipped assholes running around keeping people stun locked :P That plus it would be heavy imba for ambushes etc. :L

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Ok you've got me sold, the image of the town was just great :) A half second stun would make sense, but is there some way of limiting it to when you interrupt an attack or something ? (as per skyrim ?) because if not, I can already envision seas of shield equipped assholes running around keeping people stun locked :P That plus it would be heavy imba for ambushes etc. :L

thing is, how would the game or you be able to find out when you block an attack?

its not exactly like minecraft has a large swing animation for you to judge when an attack is gonna hit especially in multiplayer with that lag

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COuld you reread the post, it seems you posted before I finished editting... anyways...

See what I'm asking for is the screwing of having that equipment screen, and I'd like to give a reason or two why.

  • Yes, you can have the equipment screen, but that mean you'd only have to fuss with the shield whenever you are reaching for the block button, or switching out the shield.
What I am suggesting is that the shield be a constant, but little problem.

Yes it means the difference of significant damage reduction, and can completely replace, or remove the block function of the sword, but moving it to a shield like that can lead to a problem of being able to block whenever you have a shield, wood or leather, or above.

I'm suggesting for the added ability to block, one should lose one space of their nine in the hotbar, which is quite a lot of space to place a weapon, food, tool, and torch, with the added benefit benefit of being able to see the durability of the shield constantly, which wouldn't be available if it were tucked away.

The problem remaining is still being able to block pretty much whenever, but at the cost of losing a space on the hotbar.

Since the shield is on the hot bar, you can actually select it and 'bash' with it, removing the need for an extra key, or keystroke to do so.

Another thing would be to go further with the idea of incentivizing the shield being on the hotbar, by either making it only able to be held up if the selector is close to the slot with the shield on it, or at least make it block better with, the closer the selector is.

This is another thing, it could be used to incentivize some sense of inventory management in the hotbar by making the shield work this way: making players trade defense and utility, with hotbar management and a slot of their hotbar.

[Oh and the word you are looking for, for damage negation, is mitigation, you are not nullifying damage, but reducing-blocking it]

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thing is, how would the game or you be able to find out when you block an attack?

its not exactly like minecraft has a large swing animation for you to judge when an attack is gonna hit especially in multiplayer with that lag

Maybe if the shield takes damage from a non entity source (aka not an arrow) this triggers the stun ? I'm not great at advising for this part because I know sweet F.A. about programming :S

The other option is to make it a chance to stun maybe ? So it's hard to stun lock people :P

I had another idea as well, what if there was two types of shield ? A buckler (or perhaps targe as it is slightly bigger) which is small and blocks less damage (less effective as a shield, especially against arrows) BUT does damage on shield bash (bucklers can be used as an offensive weapon during duel, trust me, they hurt) and has a chance to stun. The second kind would be a kite or tower shield which would be more effective for soaking up ranged attacks and would have a better damage dampener, but the shield bash would only cause knockback (no damage or stun chance). That way you can choose between a highly mobile, duelling combat style from the later 16th centuries (in the style of the spanish rodelero) or a heavier, defensive style (as per the knights of medieval europe)

Edit- Blocking with the buckler would not slow down the character, blocking with the larger shield would.

Edited by Jed1314
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Maybe if the shield takes damage from a non entity source (aka not an arrow) this triggers the stun ? I'm not great at advising for this part because I know sweet F.A. about programming :S

The other option is to make it a chance to stun maybe ? So it's hard to stun lock people :P

I had another idea as well, what if there was two types of shield ? A buckler (or perhaps targe as it is slightly bigger) which is small and blocks less damage (less effective as a shield, especially against arrows) BUT does damage on shield bash (bucklers can be used as an offensive weapon during duel, trust me, they hurt) and has a chance to stun. The second kind would be a kite or tower shield which would be more effective for soaking up ranged attacks and would have a better damage dampener, but the shield bash would only cause knockback (no damage or stun chance). That way you can choose between a highly mobile, duelling combat style from the later 16th centuries (in the style of the spanish rodelero) or a heavier, defensive style (as per the knights of medieval europe)

Edit- Blocking with the buckler would not slow down the character, blocking with the larger shield would.

i like the chance to stun on hit and make it better with the material of sheild used

i was kind of suggesting this by having the wooden and reinforced wood sheilds be lighter and smaller so they would kind of act and look like the buckler you mentioned and the heavy metal sheilds would look like hike or tower sheilds depending on what bioxx wants

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I really hope for a response.

Anyways, there is are a few other types of shields, the targe, which is a larger version of the buckler, it is a foot or so in radius, and the body shield, a massive metal construct, that does more than any normal tower shield.

Other than that, I really want to add a bit of skill to blocking, other than how well you can craft it, which can increase mitigation, durability, and chance to stun, pretty robotically.

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I really hope for a response.

Anyways, there is are a few other types of shields, the targe, which is a larger version of the buckler, it is a foot or so in radius, and the body shield, a massive metal construct, that does more than any normal tower shield.

Other than that, I really want to add a bit of skill to blocking, other than how well you can craft it, which can increase mitigation, durability, and chance to stun, pretty robotically.

well we shouldnt add too many kinds of sheilds, i kind of want to keep it at a light sheild and heavier sheilds but you wouldnt make seperate plans for them, it would ust be decided by the material you use because a black steel sheild is bound to be heavier than a wooden one

as for the skill to blocking, it workis in other games but i just dont think it would work in minecraft because most mobs dont really have an attack, they just touch you and deal damage

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i like the chance to stun on hit and make it better with the material of sheild used

i was kind of suggesting this by having the wooden and reinforced wood sheilds be lighter and smaller so they would kind of act and look like the buckler you mentioned and the heavy metal sheilds would look like hike or tower sheilds depending on what bioxx wants

I understand where you are coming from, from the perspective of game progression it makes sense, but from the perspective of a medieval re-enactor, this is slightly backwards. Bucklers are commonly made of metal such as metal on account of their small size. On the other hand, large kite shields and tower shields are never really made of anything heavier than hardwood (and often made of softer, flexible wood to help with impact dampening such as the use of lindenwood in the construction of traditional viking era shields) the only metal really on large shields was metal banding around the outer edge to protect from splitting and a shield boss to provide a strong central point :). I do understand though, that this would impact on the material progression and balance of the game, hence why I suggested two types of shield :)

I really hope for a response.

Anyways, there is are a few other types of shields, the targe, which is a larger version of the buckler, it is a foot or so in radius, and the body shield, a massive metal construct, that does more than any normal tower shield.

Other than that, I really want to add a bit of skill to blocking, other than how well you can craft it, which can increase mitigation, durability, and chance to stun, pretty robotically.

Sorry I never saw your previous comment :S Addressing that first, I can definitely see where you're coming from, perhaps we could meet in the middle ? If the shield is in the hotbar, right clicking could activate it ? That way, the shield will always interfere with a hotbar slot when you want to use it, as well as turning you into a combat orientated character, because you couldn't build with it equipped (due to the remapping of the right click) that way, people can't always run around being ready to block ? :)

Addressing your second post, I did mention the targe in my above post, but any shield larger than a tower as it would be somewhat difficult to use in moving combat for anyone other than a hulking behemoth of a man. I have a hard enough time using a regular shield for prolonged periods (and I'm not a small guy)

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The simple thing would be to map the block key to something commonly used, how about the sneak button?

To prevent unwanted shielding while picking, or building? move the shield away from the items you don't want to block with, say 2 or 3 slots away from the shield.

Seem a bit more lenient?

What matters is where the selector is, and if the shield is in the hotbar.

Blocking shouldn't be any hassle to the player, set aside obstructed vision, and slowed movement, and the other nuances of sneaking.

Of course, the shield would normally be tiring to hold up, and your block bar would drain, so you have to trade prolonged fall prevention, and invisibility for your ability to block momentarily.

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The simple thing would be to map the block key to something commonly used, how about the sneak button?

To prevent unwanted shielding while picking, or building? move the shield away from the items you don't want to block with, say 2 or 3 slots away from the shield.

Seem a bit more lenient?

What matters is where the selector is, and if the shield is in the hotbar.

Presuming your solution is easy to code, I think that makes sense as a less harsh solution :) I definitely do think the blocking should be key mapped because it adds an element of skill, the chance for human error and a definite blocking action :)

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Presuming your solution is easy to code, I think that makes sense as a less harsh solution :) I definitely do think the blocking should be key mapped because it adds an element of skill, the chance for human error and a definite blocking action :)

Shit, I need to stop re-editting, anyways, what you may have missed

Blocking shouldn't be any hassle to the player, set aside obstructed vision, and slowed movement, and the other nuances of sneaking.

Of course, the shield would normally be tiring to hold up, and your block bar would drain, so you have to trade prolonged fall prevention, and invisibility for your ability to block momentarily

Anyways, if the whole proximity thing doesn't work, then honestly, to the void fog catacombs, as long as that little trade-off between sneaking, and blocking happens with blocking mapped onto sneaking, it should be just as fine.

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Shit, I need to stop re-editting

Ah it's fine, re-editing is better than flooding posts with "Oh I forgot" and "Oh yeah and .. " :P

Anyways, if the whole proximity thing doesn't work, then honestly, to the void fog catacombs, as long as that little trade-off between sneaking, and blocking happens with blocking mapped onto sneaking, it should be just as fine.

Sounds like a solution to me :)

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Yeah, and not forgetting the prerequisite need of a shield on the hotbar, and not wasting your block/stamina bar, those need to be remembered.

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Yeah, and not forgetting the prerequisite need of a shield on the hotbar, and not wasting your block/stamina bar, those need to be remembered.

Obviously :) .. I feel dead bad now :L .. Like the thread has been hijacked from the OP :L sorry noodles :( You can haz input nao :P :P

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