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DarkLadyPhoenix

Nerfed chest size

60 posts in this topic

Is ridiculously difficult to play with.

I don't mean to turn this into a complaint thread, but we need a LOT of resources to advance in this game by design. There's 23 different rocks (that's 92 different things to store) , 16 different trees+planks, 10 basic metals, didn't count the compound metals, 23 different types of just dirt for crying out loud.

16 different toolsx14 different types of material to make them out of. Can you live without tools? How many types of armor are there? How many different types of food?

Here is what my typical forge set up looks like. See all those chests? They're all full! Full of bars, ingots, double ingots, not shaped metals, sheets, compounds... That's JUST the forge. And that's not before I saw the nerf size.

Under the current chest size it takes a single chest's worth alone of double ingots just to make a single anvil. No, you don't get to store anything else. You work on one thing at a time.

All this because someone complained about logs not being realistic?

Sorry, I'm just not seeing the logic in this change at all. This mod dumps so many different kinds of resources on the player that I found the traditional vanilla storage systems I build had to be modified to hold more to compensate for the sheer number of things this mod gives. It makes no sense to give such resources then halve the chest size.

I had to build these to hold just ore in our last map. I'll need to build 4x the amount with this chest nerf. I know this version of the mod has not been out for very long, but how exactly are others coping with this kind of thing? Is there a forge design that works comfortably with this nerf?

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I'm not too happy with it either, but with every thing bioxx has done right so far I'm going to give it a good try before I really start bashing on it. Chances are he has somthing in mind to help out.

Probably something like the stockpiles used in Dwarf fortress. Logs pretty much work like this already, maybe he will have other items work the same way, maybe rock/ore piles and the like.

iirc there was 2 storage items you could craft in dwarf fortress but its been so long i cant remember what they were... I want to say pallets and bins? if he let us craft them they could be used to hold alot of stuff, but probably take up more space like a 2x2 and leave chests to be used as personal storage items instead of holding crafting mats.

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I'm not too happy with it either, but with every thing bioxx has done right so far I'm going to give it a good try before I really start bashing on it. Chances are he has somthing in mind to help out.

Probably something like the stockpiles used in Dwarf fortress. Logs pretty much work like this already, maybe he will have other items work the same way, maybe rock/ore piles and the like.

iirc there was 2 storage items you could craft in dwarf fortress but its been so long i cant remember what they were... I want to say pallets and bins? if he let us craft them they could be used to hold alot of stuff, but probably take up more space like a 2x2 and leave chests to be used as personal storage items instead of holding crafting mats.

It's barrels for food and drinks and bins for everything else.

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I am not against the change, however, if I had a say on how to implement this kind of effect:

First I would have reduced the players inventory to 1 9 slot row + the 9 slot hand choice. (That is based on the idea that this is the only option, not my personal methodology that would probably be more complicated.)

Then I would have tackled the chests. First I would have made a single wooden chest 1 row and a double chest 3 rows. With the plan to include other "more capable storage options in the future. Such as Steel Cabinets which would be the equivalent to vanilla double chests, but take up more room in some manner.

-------------------------------------------

My personal idea of the character's inventory would be to limit the character to the 9 slot "tool belt" row and no other inventory options. Then you include a slot for a "bag/backpack". Depending upon the bag/backpack design, you'd get varying carrying options and the ultimate would be the enchanted backpack which would give the player the vanilla inventory storage on their character and upon death everything in the backpack stays in the backpack. Everything on the tool belt drops normally.

I do think implementing the chest change first, was the wrong methodology, first get players used to carrying less, then hit their mass storage.

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Well this mean you better bulid warehouse right?

No, this means you waste FAR more space putting in FAR more chests in and then have even more difficulty keeping track of the now 500 chests you have to have to keep all the stuff you mine.

There is no logical reason for a large chest to be half of what a person can carry, and then on top of it stuff only stacks to 16 in it. We went from being able to store 2304 items that stack to 64 down to 288, that's an 800% nerf that there is no reason for. All this is going to do is force people to use chest mods to be able to play the mod.

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I agree it's quite ridiculous to have chests nerfed so much. Unless Bioxx plans to add better chests or item management in the future, this kinda stinks. Not only is the 16 stack limit bugged to shit (which can be fixed, I know), it also makes little sense if the player can hold 64 of it. May as well just limited all items to stacks of 16 if that's what he wanted to do.

Yes, chests with such limited space provide realism, but there has to be a balance between gameplay and realism. Most people don't care if they KNOW a 2 cubic meter chest can't hold 64 cubic meters of stone or a boatload of meat, but it's designed like that because anything else wouldn't make sense in regards to gameplay.

Not to mention, servers are practically unplayable until pre44 >.<

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I think the idea here is to only take what you need. If you need 2 ingots, only collect that much ore when you need it. Don't stockpile things. Come back home and make what you needed then you don't need any storage at all. People who stockpiled things in the old days had mass storage areas, vaults and the like. That, I think, is what he is going for here. Nobody says you need 40 stacks of granite right this minute. Use a little, collect a little.

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All this is going to do is force people to use chest mods to be able to play the mod.

Aka backpacks.

I thinks the nerf might have had sense if he just cutted out the stacks to 16 and leaving all the vanella slots or leaving the stacks alone (64 items) and take out the slots but really i think both options are just exesive. And yeah i'm going to use the backpack mod because i think the chests right now are very unbalanced

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My setup isn't really effected by this change. I've been setting my buildings up for each thing that I wanted. I.E. a farm with silo, ranch with barn complete with loft, lumbermill with a lumberyard nearby, masonry with a nearby stoneyard, I collect the metals I need and mark the ones I don't with towers or other ways of finding them, blacksmith doesn't need to work on ten things at a time, jewelry shop for non-chipped or flawed gems only, schoolhouse for ink feathers paper and books, docks with a wharf, barracks for weapons and armor, and at this point I have no store problems and still have more buildings I could fill if I wished it. My only complaint is I have way too many sticks.

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If he does plan to add better storage could he have at least waited until they were added to nerf the chests, right now it's impossible to store anything. If there are no plans for better storage then the nerf is the dumbest thing added like stated above you add more items then reduce storage space, that sucks. plus the damn things disappear when chunks unload so servers right now everything you own has to fit in your inventory.

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My setup isn't really effected by this change. I've been setting my buildings up for each thing that I wanted. I.E. a farm with silo, ranch with barn complete with loft, lumbermill with a lumberyard nearby, masonry with a nearby stoneyard, I collect the metals I need and mark the ones I don't with towers or other ways of finding them, blacksmith doesn't need to work on ten things at a time, jewelry shop for non-chipped or flawed gems only, schoolhouse for ink feathers paper and books, docks with a wharf, barracks for weapons and armor, and at this point I have no store problems and still have more buildings I could fill if I wished it. My only complaint is I have way too many sticks.

That sounds nice would you upload some pics to have an idea? that might just work! Please that way i'll not use the backpack mod just yet

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Yep here they are. http://imgur.com/a/unOCN BTW I'm only doing close-ups on the storage I'm using; however, I have plenty more available in the houses I've built for each profession. I'm nowhere near running out of space. Just cann't find enough uses for all the sticks I have. I've thought about throwing them out but that seems like a waste to me. Anyhow enjoy the pics.

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Why not use the backpack mod? It is believable as long as you dont make like 30 of them to carry with you.

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I'm not saying that that's a bad idea just that you are short changing yourself the fun of finding neat and interesting ways of storing your items. If you're still trying to put everything into one building then this probally isn't the mod for you. Regular Minecraft allows you to do that; however this is a mod not regular Minecraft.

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I agree with the idea that vanilla chests don't fit this mod, however instead of the current change make it so you can create storage units that can only hold one specific group of item, stone, ore, wood etc, but make it so they can hold more than what vanilla chests currently do. Maybe make so so some chests take metal to make so they wouldn't be the easy to get early on. Also make them scale up in size with increasing tier metal. I think it fits the "realism" side of this mod well because when storing something, what your storing effects how you store it, you wouldn't have just one chest to hold every different type of item.

Just an idea.

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I love how chests hold less stuff than a player, and that the player can carry stacks upon stacks of 64 stone, while chests only stack to 16.

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Another option that would work great with this mods theme might be crates or barrels. They wouldn't be able to connect with each other. Each crate / barrel would still only have one row of storage; however, they could be placed much like woodpiles. This way we could fill an entire room with them. We've never been able to do that with chests and I (at least) end up with a headache trying to get the storage I need in a design that doesn't look like !@#$. For this reason I go with more of a town design, where I can simply add more buildings if I need more space.

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Honestly I don't mind the chests shrinking... And people have been using Chest and Backpack mods since the start (CHEATERS!)

But you people also have to remember you are playing a rather very early Alpha of a mod...I can't even say it is a beta since things are still ebing heavily flushed out and we don't even have base systems really in other then world Gen and some basic item creation.

So for all you know Bioxx has plans to make the player inventory smaller and give us the ability to make and wear backpacks that would expand our inventories to a degree... But I have always done large storage facilities or simply didn't mass gather stuff if I had no room.

For those that look in the picture thread when you see my forge/mine enterance the stairs going up are actually for Ore storage while down in the mine we actually had chests lining the walls of a few odd tunnels just for rock storage. THe Attic of our house actually housed all of our wood that wasn't be cycled into the charcoal pit.

But I wouldn't mind seeing things like pallets for storage of ingots and the likes

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I'm not saying that that's a bad idea just that you are short changing yourself the fun of finding neat and interesting ways of storing your items. If you're still trying to put everything into one building then this probally isn't the mod for you. Regular Minecraft allows you to do that; however this is a mod not regular Minecraft.

I don't. Metals go in a forge building. Plants (sugarcane, lilypads, flowers, seeds, saplings) go in a greenhouse. Stone goes into storage etc.

I'm having trouble storing -dirt- right now. Just dirt. For a mod that is supposed to promote going out and exploring the world, I'm feeling like exploring to look for different types of ore (and dirt) is a very bad thing. Why would I go look for different things? I would have no where to put it. Go count the number of raw ore you need just to make rose gold or some other T2 metal. Now count the number of chests you need just to hold the metal that you need to process for something like rose gold.

I -get- that vanilla chests hold way more than they should and we shouldn't have warehouses full of stuff but as was pointed out earlier, an 800% nerf by affecting both the stack size -and- the chest size is rather grating. Doing one or the other would have been perfectly acceptable, but I really don't see how the current build is feasible for how this mod is played.

Yes, this is an alpha. Are we not supposed to be testing things and pointing out when stuff doesn't work? Should we just not have any discussion about anything at all because it'll just change later? I thought input was important. My input is simply that this drastic change is counter-intuitive for the mod.

No, I don't want to cheat by using backpack mods and smart moving and all that other garbage. If something is broken or needs to be altered for balance sake, mods to circumvent that problem just masks the fact that there is a problem when there could be an easy fix.

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Vanilla chests didn't store more than they should have. The only thing that possibly had a higher capacity for item storage was the player.

This is just a very bad idea. The whole point of this game is collecting a bunch of stuff and doing things with it. Anything that makes the whole point of the game ridiculously more tedious is bad.

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So very little people complaining...

Why don't you make a poll? Personally I like that Bioxx considered nerfing the storage. Maybe one sigle row per chest is too little, it could be one and a half, or more if realistic stack limits for all items are implemented. But whatever the change he consider to be final, the point is that he considered it, because this is also an apect of the game that needed to be changed into a more realistic way, like it happened with ores, trees, water, etc.

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I'm having trouble storing -dirt- right now. Just dirt. For a mod that is supposed to promote going out and exploring the world, I'm feeling like exploring to look for different types of ore (and dirt) is a very bad thing. Why would I go look for different things? I would have no where to put it. Go count the number of raw ore you need just to make rose gold or some other T2 metal. Now count the number of chests you need just to hold the metal that you need to process for something like rose gold.

So if I'm understanding what you're saying we need more uses for dirt and a better way to handle the varied quantities of metal that we need to gather.

No, I don't want to cheat by using backpack mods and smart moving and all that other garbage. If something is broken or needs to be altered for balance sake, mods to circumvent that problem just masks the fact that there is a problem when there could be an easy fix.

Good for you Sir. I tip my hat to you.

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So if I'm understanding what you're saying we need more uses for dirt and a better way to handle the varied quantities of metal that we need to gather.

No and yes.

I have plenty of uses for dirt. I'm terraforming all the time. My problem is, I collect dirt when I mine so I'm not going out and having to mine just dirt. I can do two things at once. Minecraft is all about time and resource management. I have dirt in my inventory then I store it in a chest for later when I'm working on terraforming not mining. The problem is, now I have nowehere to put said dirt until I can collect enough for a project.

This current build (and its bugs sadly) makes the game terribly difficult to do things in batches. Like, go gather 6 piles of stone, then use that stone to build a wall or a house when you are done mining. With dirt, I have so many spaces that I need to cover, I need several stacks of dirt. Except when I'm mining, I don't get stacks of one type of dirt. I get say, 8 of each type because I dig through different biomes looking for different ores.

Yes, we need a better way to handle all the metal that is required for this mod. I'd say the same thing goes for clay, sand and every other resource in the game. 16 of anything is just pathetic and gets you nothing done.

Why don't you make a poll?

No, I will not make a poll. A poll is grossly inaccurate as far as getting a good gauge at what people want because they're either A, worded to be horribly biased or B, may not have the option I want so I'm having to choose something I really don't want. If you want to make a poll in the suggestions thread, fine. Go for it. I didn't make this thread to be some sort of A or B nonsense. I put it in discussion, not suggestions. Also, unless polls are made by Bioxx, I highly doubt a poll would do any good in this case.

And the game is not meant to be realistic, the game is supposed to be believable.

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