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Jed1314

Total Ranged Overhaul

35 posts in this topic

First, I want to appologise to the community at large for my (extremely) frequent posts. I am full of ideas as I have been playing this mod for a long time and have wanted to say a lot of this for a long time. If anyone feels I am being too forward with my ideas, please tell me and I will calm it :)

This is a comprehensive ranged overhaul, complete with images of intended recipes etc. The images are not great (because I am no artist) I was going to wait till all images were complete but want to see the community response first. I will be updating the images as I go. Anyone who wants to help can message me/submit images to me for the OP :)

Ranged Combat Overhaul

Appologies for the awful artwork ;)

Basic Premise: Ranged combat is currently a weak area of the game. With only a few extra items, this could easily be changed.

New Features: Removal of the vanilla bow (anyone familiar with archery will know 3 sticks + string does not make a bow :P)

Addition of a composite bow (replacement for vanilla bow) crafted with sinew, horn, sticks, fish glue + string

Addition of the pilum as a short - medium range metal age skirmishing weapon

Addition of crossbows crafted with any kind of steel (higher grade=more durability + red/blue steel increase damage by 1 heart)

Use of existing features: The horn used in any recipes is a new drop from the cow

The sinew used would be a new drop from deer

Fish glue would be made by cooking already cooked fish (not ideal but seems the easiest solution)

The composite bow:

The composite bow has been added to replace the removed vanilla bow. It is the same in terms of fire and damage rate as the vanilla bow (should this be increased?), with a higher durability. It is the ranged weapon with the longest effective range, being effective from short to very long range.

It is crafted in the crafting bench in steps as shown:

First the horn, sticks and sinew are combined in the crafting table as shown. This gives unfinished bow 1:

See below post

Next, the fish glue is combined with the unfinished bow to give unstrung bow:

See below post

Then the string is crafted in two steps, first by using a hammer on sinew and then combining three sinew strands to make a bow string:

See below post

The string and unstrung bow are combined as shown, giving a composite bow.

See below post

The composite bow fires one arrow type: Broadheads (stone + assorted metals tbd)

Broadheads are effective against fleshy and unarmored targets doing reasonable bleed damage over time but do ¾ damage against armoured targets and do not cause bleeding.

The heads are made on the anvil, using this plan a single ingot for 6 heads (better metals improve recovery chance, red/blue steel add .5 heart damage):

Posted Image

These are then combined with sticks and feathers in the traditional style to give broadhead arrows.

The Pilum:

The Pilum has been added as a technological advancement from the javelin. It is a short range projectile, intended to be thrown just prior to engagement in melee combat, or to take down a fleeing opponent. IIt has the same range as the javelin.

It is crafted in two steps:

First, the pilum head is crafted from a double ingot of the desired metal, using this plan (better metals improve recovery chance, red/blue steel add .5 heart damage):

Posted Image

This pilum head is then attached to two sticks in the crafting bench as shown:

Posted Image

It is made from any metal that swords or armor can be made from. The Pilum obviously does not have ammunition. It is more effective against armored targets than the bow (doing full damage and ignoring 20% of armor), but does not cause any additional damage, making it less effective vs. unarmoured targets.

The Crossbow:

The Crossbow is an advanced game weapon, which can only be crafted from steel or steel alloys. It does more damage than the bow and fires two ammunition types, but has a much lower rate of fire and a shorted range (better metals improve durability, red/blue steel add .5 heart damage) .

It is crafted in the steps below:

The crossbow limbs are each made from a double ingot and this plan:

Posted Image

The crossbow trigger is made from a single ingot and this plan:

Posted Image

The crossbow stock is made by placing hardwood logs in a crafting table in this shape, along with a knife:

Posted Image

They are all combined in this shape to form an unstrung crossbow:

Posted Image

A bowstring (crafting method above) and unstrung crossbow are combined as shown, giving a crossbow:

Posted Image

The Crossbow fires two ammunition types: Barbed bolts and Piercing bolts.

Barbed bolts are effective against fleshy and unarmored targets causing extreme bleed damage over time but do ¾ damage against armoured targets and do not cause bleeding.

The heads are made on the anvil, (using steel+) using this plan and a single ingot for 3 heads (better metals improve recovery chance, red/blue steel add .5 heart damage):

Posted Image

Piercing bolts are highly effective against armored targets, doing full damage and ignoring 40% of armor, but do not cause any additional damage, making it less effective vs. unarmoured targets.

The heads are made on the anvil, (using steel+) using this plan a single ingot for 3 heads (better metals improve recovery chance, red/blue steel add .5 heart damage):

Posted Image

All bolts are crafted with their relevant head, a hardwood log and feathers, using the general pattern below, where the knife can be placed in any empty slot (this produces 3 bolts):

See below post

Just_Another_Guy_ :) has been very active in helping support/develop this suggestion, and has now compiled a list of different "classes" you could be in this suggestion. It's worth noting that you aren't forced to pick any of these, as you can change "class" with a simple equipment change, no skills, no attributes, no grinding :D

Link: http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/1101-combat-classes/

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Dont appoliges about frequent posts if they are intresting in any way or form...

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Crossbow bolt crafting:

Posted Image

Unfinished Bow 1 Crafting:

Posted Image

Unstrung Bow Crafting:

Posted Image

Bow String Crafting:

Posted ImagePosted Image

Composite Bow Crafting:

Posted Image

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Hmm, not bad but if you want decent spread of bows you might want to alter the Composite bow a bit and add a Long bow as well.

Composite bows would have a shorter range but have a faster draw (We'll ignore that in reality getting a Composite bow wet or bringing it to a humid climate would ruin it)

Long bows would have a much longer range but a much longer draw

When armor comes into play a Composite bow would actually do better at punching into armor then a Long bow... But of course a Crossbow beats them hands down, as they were designed just to punch through armor, but they have a fairly short range and make for a horrid hunting weapon.

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Hmm, not bad but if you want decent spread of bows you might want to alter the Composite bow a bit and add a Long bow as well.

Composite bows would have a shorter range but have a faster draw (We'll ignore that in reality getting a Composite bow wet or bringing it to a humid climate would ruin it)

Long bows would have a much longer range but a much longer draw

When armor comes into play a Composite bow would actually do better at punching into armor then a Long bow... But of course a Crossbow beats them hands down, as they were designed just to punch through armor, but they have a fairly short range and make for a horrid hunting weapon.

I also decided to ignore the hunditity/dampness issue :P

I didn't add a longbow because there is a line at which you are just giving the user an arbitrary choice between two *similar* options. Although from a real life perspective the longbow and composite bow are different, they aren't really different enough I don't think. I omitted an armor piercing option from the bow to force users to use the pilum and bow in combination at lower levels, which is what makes the crossbow such a sweet perk when you get it :)

Ps Uploaded remaining images :)

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After extensive research and confirming that these are all indeed in-period, I am unable to +1 this hard enough. Best forum suggestion atm, imo.

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I plus +1 one this, maybe the slingshot too while we are at it since we got them stones now.

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I plus +1 one this, maybe the slingshot too while we are at it since we got them stones now.

You read my mind, I was toying with putting in slings which were made with leather and string, and would shoot rocks broken with hammers and lead balls that were cast :)
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throwing knives, maybe? they stack up to 16 and are only good against unarmored targets. Also blowguns that deliver poison would be nice, but are used against targets with (possibly?) no and partial covering armor(armor that has gaps like bismuth)

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throwing knives, maybe? they stack up to 16 and are only good against unarmored targets. Also blowguns that deliver poison would be nice, but are used against targets with (possibly?) no and partial covering armor(armor that has gaps like bismuth)

Not huge on the throwing knives, for combat it's quite impractical irl. I could go for blowguns, but they never saw wide use Europe. I suppose you could say that since it's part of other continents history it could still be used
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I'm loving this... This has to be added.

We'll see :) I hope that if nothing else, at least this gets added :)
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This is my favourite of your three overhaul topics. :U

Also as much as I like composite bows, wouldn't it be a lot easier to carve a self bow from a log. ...This video isn't of the greatest quality,

. It's actually part of a series of three videos if you're interested.

Also, with mobs being as...dumb as they currently are, there's not much of a reason to make combat very deep. Actually, no. That's not quite right. I'd go as far as saying most first-person melee combat is functionally limited to this mashing kind of gameplay. Adding different damage types, weaknesses, and resistances is just a way to dress things up. In order to add a more strategic element, you don't need to add a wall of math and damage calculation. You need to slow things down and add deeper mechanics.

For example, all attacks, from players and mobs alike, could take a second or two to draw, cutting movement down to sneaking speed. After the draw the attacker would actually preform their attack. Different attacks would have different draw periods.

Mobs and weapons should also have two or more attacks (or functions), and each attack should have a tell.

Spiders could be given an easily-avoidable, debilitating, web-shot, indicated by some mouth-foaming during their draw. Zombies could be given a damage-dealing grab, indicated by having their arms up. (And a lunge, considering they don't really have an attack to begin with.) Swords can block, making them a balanced option, while maces could be given a forward step attack, and an in-place attack, or whatever. Adding options deepens things a lot more than math does.

...Anyway, I've gotten a bit distracted. I also really like the pilum. :U

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This is my favourite of your three overhaul topics. :U

Thanks :) It's mine too :P

Also as much as I like composite bows, wouldn't it be a lot easier to carve a self bow from a log. ...This video isn't of the greatest quality,

. It's actually part of a series of three videos if you're interested.
I'll give those a watch later :D I have a passing interest in bowyery :P

As far as the carving a self bow goes, I had very similar thoughts myself. Ultimately I opted for the compound bow to give the game a bit more of a sense of historic progression. I.e. You have to hunt with the javelin to get the sinew and horn, like the first prehistoric men did with spears, before the invention of amazing (at the time) devices like the atlatl and bow :) This funny notion is really the only reason I chose the composite bow as my weapon of choice (despite the humidity issues which do not face self bow users). Another reason is to make the bow as hard to get as the other ranged weapons in the same tier (aka the Pilum :))

Also, with mobs being as...dumb as they currently are, there's not much of a reason to make combat very deep. Actually, no. That's not quite right. I'd go as far as saying most first-person melee combat is functionally limited to this mashing kind of gameplay. Adding different damage types, weaknesses, and resistances is just a way to dress things up. In order to add a more strategic element, you don't need to add a wall of math and damage calculation. You need to slow things down and add deeper mechanics.

For example, all attacks, from players and mobs alike, could take a second or two to draw, cutting movement down to sneaking speed. After the draw the attacker would actually preform their attack. Different attacks would have different draw periods.

Mobs and weapons should also have two or more attacks (or functions), and each attack should have a tell.

Spiders could be given an easily-avoidable, debilitating, web-shot, indicated by some mouth-foaming during their draw. Zombies could be given a damage-dealing grab, indicated by having their arms up. (And a lunge, considering they don't really have an attack to begin with.) Swords can block, making them a balanced option, while maces could be given a forward step attack, and an in-place attack, or whatever. Adding options deepens things a lot more than math does.

Sadly, what you have said is true :P My understanding of minecraft is that it is very difficult to introduce features such as that. If it wasn't/isn't you just earned the right to claim my firstborn son, because that just sounds great :D The aim with adding the two different weapon "types" (anti armor and bleed) was to at least introduce a twisted kind of "rock, paper, scissors" strategy, where you could actually lose in PvP if you didn't stop and think for a second :P

Also, I'm happy you like the Pilum. I was going to put a sling in instead of it at first, but I'm glad I didn't :)

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I'd love to ambush a donkey caravan going through a mountain valley accompanied by a few archers. +1

I was thinking, if we added advanced range, could it be possible to add hitboxes. I'd like to shoot someone in the face with a crossbow and have it mean something.

Edited by fred da kiko
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I'd love to ambush a donkey caravan going through a mountain valley accompanied by a few archers. +1

I was thinking, if we added advanced range, could it be possible to add hitboxes. I'd like to shoot someone in the face with a crossbow and have it mean something.

A man after my own heart I see ;)

I'm all for hitboxes, I don't know if anyone who programs is though :P

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I like this idea, but I think we might change a few things if we implemented this. Sinew would most likely be a bi-product of butchery, and the horn would be a drop of the future aurochs. I don't know about requiring steel for crossbows, but a springy metal is a must. You have put a lot of effort into this! Wow, I don't know if we'll go into the detail that you have, (an entire crafting recipe for a crossbow trigger?) but we certainly like your ideas.

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I like this idea, but I think we might change a few things if we implemented this. Sinew would most likely be a bi-product of butchery, and the horn would be a drop of the future aurochs. I don't know about requiring steel for crossbows, but a springy metal is a must. You have put a lot of effort into this! Wow, I don't know if we'll go into the detail that you have, (an entire crafting recipe for a crossbow trigger?) but we certainly like your ideas.

I'm honoured ! :o

I only did that with the crossbows to provide a sense of power scale, but you are quite right, it's not necessary to have specifically steel. Any springy metal would do :)

Again, I just tried to make the crossbow complex to make it like an end game treat :P

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Maybe a recipe for the crossbow mechanism and one for the stalk?

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Concerning the cross bow... Wood(Or Horn) was actually quite commonly used for the longest time in their creation then they eventually moved up to Iron and Steel (Depends on how rich you were and once they could make it pure enough that it didn't shatter).

BUt those Crossbows made the modern ones look like a bad joke..They could have upwards of a 700-1000lb draw on them while the average long bow is only 80-110lbs.

As for the Mechanisms well those are very very simple things and were commonly made from bronze (Or iron later on) and only really require a 4-5 pieces (This is including pins and the like that hold them inside) So in reality crossbows aren't "complex" by any means Hell think the Chinese were making them as far back as 400-200BC

http://www.computers...on/crossbow.htm <--One source I managed to find

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-snip-

You're quite right. In fact crossbows are one of the only common uses of composite bow technology in western medieval Europe as the self bow was generally preferred. A metal limbed crossbow is often referred to as an arbalest and appears in the 15th/16th centaury. I know that crossbows were not that complex either. But as it represents the most powerful ranged weapon in the game, I wanted to make it challenging to get :)
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What about the various types of lumber, having an affect on the different levels of durability and damage?

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A short bow should be added to replace the vanilla bow instead of the Composite/Recurve Bow as its a more accessible/usable weapon than the composite for the fact that Composite bows wouldn't work in humidity/water. Especially since rain variable Is implemented into the calendar now...

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A short bow should be added to replace the vanilla bow instead of the Composite/Recurve Bow as its a more accessible/usable weapon than the composite for the fact that Composite bows wouldn't work in humidity/water. Especially since rain variable Is implemented into the calendar now...

aaah a wild necromancer has appeared!!!!
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