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BronyPwny

Propick, how do you WORK?

30 posts in this topic

This thing needs it's own wiki page or something, because I have NO idea how this thing works... Ok, that's a lie, I KINDA know how this thing works, but I just don't know how to get the results I want from it. Every time I try using the prospector's pick, I still feel like I'm running around, blind, going through more picks then it's worth. Just now I sectioned off four quadrants to no avail, mind into the middle of the four, finding nothing, and then got the bright idea to look down... Turned out that the ore I was looking for was below me... So I head down a couple of blocks, which changed the stone I was in, and sectioned off four MORE quadrants, FINALLY finding the SMALL amount of ore I was looking for... I spent more then a couple hours looking for 15 lousy pieces of bismuth... So now, I'm going to go into a study of this particular tool to make mining for me EASIER, and not just more of a hassle, (Because, right now? I feel like I'm mining for diamonds in vanila minecraft), and let's face it, I'm sick of being stuck in the stone age...

So question time. First, will start off with Propick questions.

What is the radius? I heard in a youtube guide that it's, basically, 12 blocks in every direction of the initial block hit. Also, does the propick include the blocks that are behind you? say you're underground, in a shaft that you've sectioned off, and you poke the rock to your left, will the propick pick up the blocks that are also to the right of the shaft? Or does it only hit the block in front of you? How far up or down does the Prospector's Pick check? 4 blocks? 8 blocks? A picture or diagram of what blocks are checked when you poke something would be EXTREMELY helpful here, for us visual learners

Also, Why will it say that on one block, there's a medium ore sample, when all the rocks around it say there's either nothing of interest, or a small sample of something else? What does it do to detect these samples, and what causes it to say exactly what it does?

Does the Prosepctor's Pick only work on rock? Or can I use it on dirt as well and achieve the same results?

Where should I be looking for ores? Should I just find a mountain, poke it once, and if it says "nothing of interest," then move on? What rock layers are great to mine and prospect in in the early game? What about late? Are there any rock layers that one should just say "Nothing good here, moving on..."?

Re-watching the spotter's guide, and also

video, while typing this, has helped a bit, but let's get into the nitty-gritty of this particular tool, as when used properly, it will save people SO much time... Unless the nitty gritty IS "Poke rock, explore in 4 directions, poke rocks, adjust height, poke rock, explore in new 4 directions..."
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The best place to look is the rock layer in which the ore you are looking for spawns. Check the wiki for that information. The propick can give you a "nothing of interest" even when there is something of interest, so try it a couple of times to be sure.

The pick can be used on any block to detect ore in a 25 x 25 x 9 (I think) block radius, centred around the block you clicked on. It does not matter what direction you are facing. This translates to the radius extending 4 below and 4 above the block, 12 to every side. If you were to excavate around the block you would have a 25x25x9 cuboid with the block you clicked at the centre.

I would still recommend looking for ores in caves, and using the propick there, as they are effectively "pre dug" mineshafts, saving you from wasting much stone and time digging your own mineshafts.

I hope this answers some of your questions :)

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...The propick can give you a "nothing of interest" even when there is something of interest, so try it a couple of times to be sure.

Why is this? Is this an intentional design of the mod? If so, it honestly makes mining that much more tedious, almost more then it's worth. Take where I'm at right now, I've dug through this layer of granite, going in one direction for 12 blocks, then pinging the last block to no avail. Been doing this for 5 stone picks and about an hour, absolutely nothing... Now I gotta go back and check ALL the walls of ALL the tunnles that I've dug through to see if, in fact, I missed something, which will take more time and effort, all because each block registers as something different. That will be at LEAST twice the amount of propicks as I used picks, just to check each and every block, because who knos, maybe I'm just THAT unlucky (alright, I know I don't have to check EVERY block of EVERY wall, but the notion is still there).

Hopefully this is, actually, unintentional, and it's just hard to find a work around this, or maybe I just so happen to find the granite layer that has NOTHING in it (it is also at, or above, sea level, which may effect the deposite sizes/frequencies.)

Speaking OF depth of mining, at which depth is it BEST to start mining? I would like to say it's easiest at the top-most level (you can just tell what rock is right below you by the rocks that are on top), but if the net gain is exponentially higher at the second or third rock layer, then that just ADDS to the tedium (as much sense as it may make...). That means that one has to find a rock layer that ISN'T the one he wants, dig down a good portion until he hits the second rock layer, and HOPE that it's one of the rock layers he/she's looking for. THEN has to make shaft upon shaft upon shaft, looking for the ore he's looking for, checking all the walls, floors, and ceilings with the propick, just to find a good deposite of the ore he's looking for...This could take anywhere from a couple of hours, to almost eight, if not more (if you're unlucky enough), and if you DON'T feel like going through all that tedium, you're stuck in the stone age, and you don't even get into the good, savory, meaty bits of this mod.

I don't mean to sound like I'm griping about anything, and maybe I'm just a little impatient, but when, right now, the mod seems to focus on metallurgy, smithing and the like, and I can't seem to find a single vein to save my life... Something just seems a bit off about this.

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Why is this? Is this an intentional design of the mod? If so, it honestly makes mining that much more tedious, almost more then it's worth. Take where I'm at right now, I've dug through this layer of granite, going in one direction for 12 blocks, then pinging the last block to no avail. Been doing this for 5 stone picks and about an hour, absolutely nothing... Now I gotta go back and check ALL the walls of ALL the tunnles that I've dug through to see if, in fact, I missed something, which will take more time and effort, all because each block registers as something different. That will be at LEAST twice the amount of propicks as I used picks, just to check each and every block, because who knos, maybe I'm just THAT unlucky (alright, I know I don't have to check EVERY block of EVERY wall, but the notion is still there).

I believe it is intentional, and is a feature intended to prevent the pick from being too powerful. It's only meant to help guide you towards the general direction of ore, not hold your hand and lead you to it :P

You don't have to check all the walls, just check a couple of blocks within the area you are checking and you should be fine. If it continuously turns up negative results, move elsewhere.

Speaking OF depth of mining, at which depth is it BEST to start mining? I would like to say it's easiest at the top-most level (you can just tell what rock is right below you by the rocks that are on top), but if the net gain is exponentially higher at the second or third rock layer, then that just ADDS to the tedium (as much sense as it may make...). That means that one has to find a rock layer that ISN'T the one he wants, dig down a good portion until he hits the second rock layer, and HOPE that it's one of the rock layers he/she's looking for. THEN has to make shaft upon shaft upon shaft, looking for the ore he's looking for, checking all the walls, floors, and ceilings with the propick, just to find a good deposite of the ore he's looking for...This could take anywhere from a couple of hours, to almost eight, if not more (if you're unlucky enough), and if you DON'T feel like going through all that tedium, you're stuck in the stone age, and you don't even get into the good, savory, meaty bits of this mod.

My understanding is that ore at higher levels is more likely to be smaller, more regular clumps of low level ore, while lower down there are large groups of more advanced ores, very spaced out.

You must have patience :P Sometimes you don't manage to find ore on your first "session" of playing, it might take a couple of days of your usual "minecraft time" to leave the stone age.

If it really isn't working for you, try a different world. Some of them are just better than others :)

I am aware this may all seem tedious, but it is worth the feeling of achievement you get, knowing your tin chisel was well earned ;)

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Bioxx needs to adjust the ore spawns anyways. The problem now is that ore veins are still somewhat sparse above sea-level (145), but now they come in very small veins compared to pre39. The problem increases because as you trek further and further below sea level, the ores get farther spread out, but much larger. Find an ore vein below y=50 and you have it for life, but you'd have to travel THOUSANDS of blocks through a cave (mining though that much stone is impractical, so I'm using the cave example) just to find it. The problem is increased by the fact that some ores are 'invisible' on certain types of stone.

To answer your questions:

Yes the design is, i guess you could say. 'unintentionally intentional', meaning ideally it wouldn't do that, but it was left in as a feature.

The best layer to start mining for your starter metals is above sea level, but if you have a few team members that can help fend off the endless stream of mobs that spawn in the large underground caves, maybe you could get lucky and find more bis/cass/sphalerite than you could ever need.

I was never that lucky, lol played on a server for 6 real life days and found only a bunch of coal, copper, and lead. I ended up 'barrowing' someone's zinc to make a chisel.

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Bioxx needs to adjust the ore spawns anyways. The problem now is that ore veins are still somewhat sparse above sea-level (145), but now they come in very small veins compared to pre39. The problem increases because as you trek further and further below sea level, the ores get farther spread out, but much larger. Find an ore vein below y=50 and you have it for life, but you'd have to travel THOUSANDS of blocks through a cave (mining though that much stone is impractical, so I'm using the cave example) just to find it. The problem is increased by the fact that some ores are 'invisible' on certain types of stone.

To answer your questions:

Yes the design is, i guess you could say. 'unintentionally intentional', meaning ideally it wouldn't do that, but it was left in as a feature.

The best layer to start mining for your starter metals is above sea level, but if you have a few team members that can help fend off the endless stream of mobs that spawn in the large underground caves, maybe you could get lucky and find more bis/cass/sphalerite than you could ever need.

I was never that lucky, lol played on a server for 6 real life days and found only a bunch of coal, copper, and lead. I ended up 'barrowing' someone's zinc to make a chisel.

*sigh* Well, I guess that's real life too, huh? tedious tedium... Though I'm glad to see that the ore spawns still need some working, and that they still aren't balanced right in world creation.

And you assume that I play on a server, with friends >.<... That fact adds to the whole tediousness, as it's only me... digging through an entire CHUNK, to find the ore I need... But that's my problem.

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The thing about this mod is that sometimes you have to venture father away from your base, camp, house, etc, to find the superficial ores that you want.

Take me for example, while mining down right beside my camp, I only found bismuth after digging from 145 to 60, finding a gigantic cave, exploring it's giganticness until I finally found a lifetime stock of that ore.

Then I decided to go look for different ores. At first I read on the wiki on what kind of rocks you can find zinc, then on what biomes can you find that ore superficially. I Explored a little bit, quite far away from my camp (x=50 y=0), and found some decent amount of zinc at a very very superficial level at x=300 y=250.

You just have to learn to look, and learning takes some time. I've been playing this mod for maybe 5, 6 days now.

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I know what you mean, I've pro picked 3 blocks across, the middle said a very large vein of ore, and the one on each side said nothing found. I think that's what is bothering people, on top of the ore generation. I think if it were a little more focused, not as powerful as the diving rod of Equivalent Exchange but close, people would be more incline to use the pro pick.

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I thought the area was 25(X)x13(Y)x25(Z)

with it being 12 in all directions but 6 up and down from the block you used it on.

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From what I heard (Back in the Pre 20's) the propick checked 12 blocks front back left and right of the block you check. It checks 6 up and down. It basically gives you a 25x25x13 grid. The propick is a tool that requires a lot of patience, a lot of time and to get good with it, it requires a lot of trial and error in figuring out how it works. One thing I learned is that the propick is more about telling you where the ore isn't than where it is. The best method I found for finding or was to propick the ground until you get a hit, but it doesn't seem to working as well in the new pre as it used to. It used to only require travelling a few thousand blocks to get hits of what you want but now it's taking 10,000 block journeys to get a whiff of anything. Another good idea is to find the area where rock layers transition and make mineshafts there. Haven't had much time using these in the new releases to see if they work the same, but they used to help.

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I know what you mean, I've pro picked 3 blocks across, the middle said a very large vein of ore, and the one on each side said nothing found. I think that's what is bothering people, on top of the ore generation...

Yea, honestly, if the Prospectors pick showed that there was a large ore vein on all three of those blocks, that'd be fine, maybe even make it so it only picks up the LARGEST vein it can. Or it could just take all the different ores in the area, determine which concentration is highest, and then tell the player just that. change the description to show something like "this area is rich in <ore>" if there's a large concentration of ore in the area detected. it could also be downgraded to something like "This area contains <ore>" for medium, "This area contains a small amount of <ore>" for small, and "This area contains traces of <ore>" For traces. So you know it's THERE, you just don't know where it is.

But that's going into suggestions and the like. Right now, let's get into using the thing as it is. Most of you have said that "It takes time, and a little know how." But how do YOU use it? Do you just blindly wail on every single stone you find? Or do you try to be more accurate, and only poke one, two, or maybe three blocks every 12 you travel? do you do a 25 by 25 grid? What has worked for you lot, and maybe we'll find a technique that will result in accurate, measured, reliable usage of the thing, so we don't go around with hundred's of propick tool heads in our inventory, poking away at every piece of dirt, rock and block in sight.

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Ok, I was playing a new map last night. I will describe how I went about finding the sphalerite that I found. After gathering my sticks and rocks for my first tools, I set off in a random direction from the spawn.

I walked for about 1200 blocks, checking the type of all of the upper rock layers as I went, marking them all with waypoints using rei's (I also marked other useful resources, such as hickory wood etc.)

Every time I found a potential rock biome, I would basically run around, picking random blocks (I ususaly choose the bottom corner parts of mountains + hills as that allows the propick to scan quite a lot of earth.

Eventually, (at the 1200 block mark) I got a "traces of saltpeter", I then checked around it and found "medium amounts of sphalerite".

Using the block I checked as a centre point, I dug a 25x25 grid, and checked all four corners. I got a "large amounts of sphalerite" in the front left quarter. This tells me that the ore vein tends towards the front left quarter of the area I scanned. (all other directions showed "medium spahlerite" or less)

With this information, I excavated an open area about 15x15, around the area of the front left quarter. I use a semi open cast mining system, where I excavate the whole floor plan of the area I have cleared, so I started doing that and soon enough found sphalerite.

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Hmm, could range from spawn increase the chances of finding ore? It sounds as though many people have found their first ping after the first 1000 blocks. Even I finally found my first hit of sphalerite after a fair distance from my spawn point. Also, that video that I posted helps a TON. when I realized what he was doing (basically finding where the ore overlaps the hits of the ProPick), I realized how finding and excavating with the Propick works. If I could diagram it, I would, as it's hard to explain in words. But it's basically triangulating where the ore is, finding three points where you get a ping, then digging in between those three points (at it's basics, there's a LOT more to that, since you're usually digging in a 3D area)

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I use a six point system. Four on the horizontal plane, and two for the vertical, finding the extreme edge of where I get a successful ping for each. It works pretty well, though veins that move diagonally through a bunch of Y-levels can give me trouble sometimes.

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I too have difficulty using the propick. Seems like whats worked best for me, is finding a location whre you find traces of an ore specifically on one block, but not the one next to it (after verifying with serveral uses of the pic to eliminate false positives) This lets you know what direction the ore must be, and the distance give or take a few few blocks. It doesnt always work, and I've often joked on my server that I would have better luck leading a chicken into the mine and following it around, than I do using the propic. Time and experience will likely change that though.

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I use a six point system. Four on the horizontal plane, and two for the vertical, finding the extreme edge of where I get a successful ping for each. It works pretty well, though veins that move diagonally through a bunch of Y-levels can give me trouble sometimes.

I know your pain, the sphalerite I found turned out to be a total clusterfuck, distributed in hundreds of small clumps, spaced out along a massive range of the x,y and z axes.

I'm still trying to get the hang of non open cast mining in this game, so my mines are a total mess of half dug tunnels and dead ends :P

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Hmm, could range from spawn increase the chances of finding ore? It sounds as though many people have found their first ping after the first 1000 blocks. Even I finally found my first hit of sphalerite after a fair distance from my spawn point. Also, that video that I posted helps a TON. when I realized what he was doing (basically finding where the ore overlaps the hits of the ProPick), I realized how finding and excavating with the Propick works. If I could diagram it, I would, as it's hard to explain in words. But it's basically triangulating where the ore is, finding three points where you get a ping, then digging in between those three points (at it's basics, there's a LOT more to that, since you're usually digging in a 3D area)

I doubt range from spawn has anything to do with it. It is more likely they are running in a straight line until they find something and therefore not checking the whole biome. It also could be they are only checking the surface and not the rock layers beneath which should put more valid rock types near their spawn.

The RNG could crap on people and not give them any valid rock types near spawn, but that wouldn't be the cause for everyone, just those with unlucky seeds.

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I know your pain, the Sphalerite I found turned out to be a total clusterfuck, distributed in hundreds of small clumps, spaced out along a massive range of the x,y and z axes.

I'm still trying to get the hang of non open cast mining in this game, so my mines are a total mess of half dug tunnels and dead ends :P

ProPic only works on large non overlapping veins. I ran into the same problem. The world I started has a massive chain of Sphalerite veins from near spawn to 1000 blocks in 2 directions and filling the area in between even crossing multiple biomes (Forest, hills, desert, mountains,etc) found at least 4 surface caves all of which have 10 or 12 very small deposits of Sphalerite.

The ProPic is useless in these situations. It finds 'very large' Sphalerite but that's because the veins are in so close proximity to each other its detecting sometimes 5 or 6 veins. Going 12 blocks away (sometimes 40+ blocks) still states 'very large'

Have 3 choices in this situation: strip mine, dig at random with propic as a guide, or find an efficient way of check large areas. I choose the latter

Below is a diagram of how I build my mine shafts for the overlapping small veins. This gives the maximum amount of coverage with the least amount of mining for these kinds of hard to ProPic deposits.

Posted Image

(Note: I build the supports before I make the hallways; stops cave ins)

For larger veins I have no problem using the propic to find the 'edge' (where the propic no longer detects even a trace of ore) and zeroing in on the ore.

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Well, hre is a big ol' F-U from Bioxx to the community...

The propick vertical scan radius has been doubled. The Scan box is now 25x25x25 blocks in size from 25x25x13.

As if it wasn't hard enough to use already, now it will be damn near impossible. You might as well not use one and just branch mine everything. Should just take the recipe out.

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Well it was mostly because of guys like me who ignored the mechanic and as soon as they found any reading they excavated the Area.

Stupid thing now is now that ore aqquiring is completly out of buisness the whole mod crumles into uslessness for me.

It was hard but bearable and enjoyable before but now its outright usless.

Altho it was forseeable to happen as with current propick mechanics most people simply prefer grinding over using the actual mechanic cause it netted results faster and far more reliable.

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Well, hre is a big ol' F-U from Bioxx to the community...

As if it wasn't hard enough to use already, now it will be damn near impossible. You might as well not use one and just branch mine everything. Should just take the recipe out.

This isn't all bad. It will be easier to detect ores in the first place, but more difficult to detect their exact position. This is in keeping with the intended function of the propick, which is to give you the general location of ores. The propick is not designed to lead you to the exact deposit, merely the rough vicinity. Everyone complains about the propick, but the fact of the matter is, it was a kindness for Bioxx to include it at all. Anyway, this will make no difference to the x-z detection radius of the pick, which is what is most important, as you can strip mine in the y axis easily, not so much with the x-z.

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No it will not be easier to detect ores the bigger the radius the more readings you get that interfere with each other!

Without the possibility to triangualte you would be randomly digging which cant for sure be wanted to be design so there is not kindness in including it.

Without any mechanic like the propick no one would bother mining ores with the current distribution rules, and the change as it happend now simply makes any type of triangulation totally off in terms of cost v.s reward.

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I think you greatly overestimate the extra interference that will be caused by this change, especially when ores have distributed much further apart now.

I find the suggestion that nobody would mine without the propick to be questionable at best. As the mod developer, bioxx adding any item which makes the players life easier is a "gift" as he could just as easily have not bothered

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Well, hre is a big ol' F-U from Bioxx to the community... As if it wasn't hard enough to use already, now it will be damn near impossible. You might as well not use one and just branch mine everything. Should just take the recipe out.

Interestingly enough... This could actually be helpful for some. It means that poking the dirt layer will go further down, allowing a larger section below to be scanned for useful materials... Still, a more consistent reading would be great, so we can avoid, "Nothing of interest, nothing of interest, a very large quantity of ore, nothing of interest..." Then again, I can also see how this would get annoying also.

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I really don't have issue with the hit or miss feature of the pick. When you are out taking dirt samples, you are not always going to find ore on your first sample, seems legit. But increasing the search area lessens the value of the hits you actually get... rare as they already are. I would take a smaller search area with less reliability than this change any day.

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