Ore generation- Is this permanant?

[cevkiv 156]

"just as the game that served as the initial inspiration for this mod, Dwarf Fortress"

Well looks like you've got a problem then.

I'm sorry, can you show me where it says that the purpose of this mod is to make Minecraft INTO Dwarf Fortress?

Oh, wait. You can't. If you could comprehend the English language, you would understand the difference between being "inspired by" something, and trying to make something into something else.

[nwaters 4]

I'm sorry, can you show me where it says that the purpose of this mod is to make Minecraft INTO Dwarf Fortress?

Oh, wait. You can't. If you could comprehend the English language, you would understand the difference between being "inspired by" something, and trying to make something into something else.

y dont u play normal minecraft that is less like dwarf fortress then this mod i am sure u will be happy then

[Mithorn 5]

Or maybe he shouldn't have made changes that make the game far more tedious and time consuming.

Exactly!!! The changes have slowed progression down to a crawl. Since we are required to find several specific metals, in order to advance to even get to things like decent armor or minecarts, You are basically stuck in the stone age until you locate them. So unless your very lucky, you will travel thousands of blocks seeing "Nothing was found" until you find a few scraps, and you will have dug a few thousand blocks of tunnels resulting in a whole lot more of "Nothing was found" and prolly a monster ore vein or 2. Let's just hope it's something more useful than a Galena or a Cinnebar vein.

I just can't see someone new to the mod sticking around to follow that long unrewarding path, and even the veterans will get tired of spinning their wheels before too long. I think all of us wanted a mod to make things more of a challenge. This change has gone far beyond challenge into tedious and boring, and no one wants that.

[nwaters 4]

i feel like ore generation is absolutely terrible and horrid especially when it comes to smp compared to ssp

[zoran 31]

I'm sorry, can you show me where it says that the purpose of this mod is to make Minecraft INTO Dwarf Fortress?

Oh, wait. You can't. If you could comprehend the English language, you would understand the difference between being "inspired by" something, and trying to make something into something else.

If you're just going to throw insults around, I'm done arguing with you. Is it that difficult to have a good argument without calling someone an idiot?

All I'm saying is this mod is at the very least, a very basic mimicry of dwarf fortress within minecraft. If you've ever played dwarf fortress, the similarities are quite obvious. If you do not wish to play a mod that makes minecraft more similar to dwarf fortress, the problem isn't the mod the problem is you. If you don't want to play it nobody is forcing you.

Either way, your arguments seem to be that you aren't having fun. I'd like to point out that just because you aren't having fun doesn't mean everyone else isn't as well. I personally enjoy this method of ore generation, if you don't enjoy it nobody is forcing you to play, simple as that.

[Seldron 8]

A lot of people on my server complained about the ore distribution at the start too. Till they got the hang of it.

I rather like it the way it is now. Especially in MP this should increase trade and does improve skill building and specialisation for the players itself.

I can understand the problems for SSP though.

[BloodravenD 7]

I think the main reason people are getting so frustrated with TFC is because of how it shows itself. It seems to me like it should be about being realistic, and having a more survival feel to it, but at the same time it makes it more like climbing the highest mountains rather than hiking. A lot of the mod is about the metalurgy, and blacksmithing, and it's only natural people would like to play with that, however the ore generation does cause issues. I agree that the far apart and huge ore deposits down deep are nice, but I think either the starter ores either need a boost in how frequent they're generated or maybe make a few surface deposits to help out. Even in vanilla minecraft you can get lucky and find a really shallow cave that has some iron, so it'd make more sense to lean in that direction for the starter metals, than to just keep things how they are.

[cevkiv 156]

If you're just going to throw insults around, I'm done arguing with you. Is it that difficult to have a good argument without calling someone an idiot?

All I'm saying is this mod is at the very least, a very basic mimicry of dwarf fortress within minecraft. If you've ever played dwarf fortress, the similarities are quite obvious. If you do not wish to play a mod that makes minecraft more similar to dwarf fortress, the problem isn't the mod the problem is you. If you don't want to play it nobody is forcing you.

Either way, your arguments seem to be that you aren't having fun. I'd like to point out that just because you aren't having fun doesn't mean everyone else isn't as well. I personally enjoy this method of ore generation, if you don't enjoy it nobody is forcing you to play, simple as that.

Actually, a lot of the people I play with, and people who play on my server tell me that they are not having fun. People have told me that they are going to quit the mod if these changes continue, and that they don't see new people wanting to play the mod at all with how stupidly tedious it's becoming.

[Zwierzolak 0]

In my world, created in b2v29 (and still played because i play with couple of friends in smp and we put lot of effort in it) ore generation was quite frustrating. After initial finds (bismithinite, tetrahedrite), I found large 'dead zones' in several layers. By 'dead' i mean 'containing nothing and coal', because i found coal quite frequently (but no ores, what makes all this coal useless) - about 8 large veins of coal and no usable ore. I found also very big vein of galena (mined 2/3 of it, ore filled small chest before chest nerf), but lead currently has no use and i have lots of silver from tetrahedrite. I started search for iron, after several-layer mining in two different places i found iron by accident... on surface. Also I found large, long caves containing no usable ore (again, 'coal doesn't count'). Quite a mess

Personally, i prefer bin veins. They are easier to find and give more satisfaction when i come back to my foundry with equipment full of ore. Multiple neighbouring smaller veins can be very tough to find by pro-pick, so it creates some difficulty (what is also ok, because difficulty is what we are looking when we play TFC ). I have an idea - now, ores are distibuted quite randomly, i mean we have rock layer and we can expect every ore that spawns in that type of rock. But there's no 'dominant' ore, every ore has it;s spawning rate equal in whole world. My idea is, that during world creation in some areas (dozen of chunks or more) one (or even several) ore should have higher spawn rate than other (which, in opposition, should have lower rate). That would create world where, for example, when we find a gold vein, we know that probably there are several or a dozen of other gold veins somewhere around. In a world created this way, player who search for iron, once he found iron, knows that that's iron rich area and don't have to dig enormous mines everywhere hoping to find some iron. That would also allow making mining more complicated, because players would have less mines (when found one, the best thing to do is to enlarge it than to create another). Less mines mean, that game can bring more difficulty in maintaning existing mines (for example, by adding mine flooding and making players pump water out). Also, player would be forced to estabilish mines where there's plenty of ore, not under the house where, now, we can expect everything we need in one place - 'keep calm and dig further'. Also in PvP, players would be forced to compete over ore deposits (just like in Settlers series).

Pls don't mind my english, it's not my mother language and i'm not using it very frequently.

[PhoenixCrafter 7]

But i can just support the fact that we will see more surface deposits. It really needs more.

Thinking about that you could do similar thing with ores as with "rocks" in one of the recent updates (instead of flint on the ground u get the same stone as in the general vicinity) there could be small surface deposits but that tells you what ore is in that area. (say i found a small amount of iron on the surface i would know that if i went mining there i would likely find more.)

[cevkiv 156]

Thinking about that you could do similar thing with ores as with "rocks" in one of the recent updates (instead of flint on the ground u get the same stone as in the general vicinity) there could be small surface deposits but that tells you what ore is in that area. (say i found a small amount of iron on the surface i would know that if i went mining there i would likely find more.)

That is the best suggestion I have heard lately.

[ThinkTank 77]

A distribution of small surface deposites, and large deep veins should provide enough initial scarecity to encourage a group of players to explore and gather enough materials to make digging deeper possible.

I personaly see no problems with huge veins, as the point would be not to be able to grab everything in one go. Rather I see the superveins as the starting point for more complicated infrastucture, working mines and the like and a gathering area for a server population. The goal is not just the extraction of the ore, but that that amount of ore can be turned into things, like towns, industry and travel.

Centers of population built up around places where trade, raw materials, industry and agriculture were.

As of the next few updates it looks like minecraft will be phasing out single player in favour of multiplayer, so issues with distribution, inventory space and mining being difficult for just one person will become moot in anycase. If you find one of the motherlodes, it will be you and everyone else helping to dig it up; and at that point it would need to be that size to feed the demands of that server population.

[Master_Aricitic 6]

I wrote a long post, and realized I was about to copy/paste it into its own thread, then I realized I could better make the thread and post a link here. So that's what I did...

The link: http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/1231-best-played-with-friends-or-too-few-ores/

Also note: the above thread has direct relation to this one (I comment on an idea presented here) as well as my own frustrations with the scarcity of ores. I don't think a massive change is needed, but at least an ability to customize (without reprogramming, i.e. a config file edit). Would that not fix everyone's issues? If we could change the scarcity in a config file those who like it the way it is could just leave the file alone, and those who don't could change it. Afterward, if anyone complained (or whined) about the lack of ore in their world people could tell them to 'shaddup' and point them to the config file.

This would allow total realists to be happy (with their weeks/months of digging) and semi-realists to be happy (with a less time consuming dig). The ONLY thing it would change is the rigidity of the ore generation (and, obviously, the config file). I suppose it would also be possible to create an 'API' for the ore generation (or just the ores, stones, dirts and their rules) but I think this would be more difficult than necessary, and would still require someone to make a 'mod of a mod' to change the ores.

Ultimately, two things: while I recognize and appreciate that this is not a finished product the current rigidity that is being programmed into it will harm its appeal for some (possibly many) people. It is impossible to achieve absolute realism in a game (with modern technology) as there are SO MANY things that are needed (thirst, body temperature, clothing, actual weather with climate effects, disease, remove the damn zombies/skeletons/creepers, etc-to name a few for this mod alone...) and, quite frankly, if you want total and absolute realism, say good bye to your family, go outside, find a nice area far from any civilization, and try not to kill yourself. (I don't really feel that way, I like the realism in this mod, but, seriously, some things need balance that 'realism' doesn't have)

Thank you, for reading, and for the interesting mod.

[Master_Aricitic 6]

So, last night I discovered just how possible it is to find ore. I had always assumed that you needed to use the prospector's pic on stone, and underground; I had also assumed that ores were (like in Vanilla, and as the spotter's guides on the wiki say, below a certain level). These assumptions are wrong and it is entirely possible to find 'traces' of ore by using the prospector's pic randomly (every 7 or so blocks) while walking in a single given direction (in a grid).

Once one has learned to identify the dirt bioms that define specific stone types (and which types you specifically need) and assuming one isn't too picky about the location they build (or the distance they must travel to get ore) it isn't nearly as difficult as I had initially thought to find ore. It's, almost, simple. Still, jumping up and down hills, mountains and bodies of water makes finding food more important than finding ore... so, yeah, it is still difficult with one person.

Lastly, I apologize if this form of double post is inappropriate. As I have new information with regards to 'finding ore' I thought I would make sure anyone 'following' the thread would be notified and I do not know if editing posts count.

[lolzilla 7]

Thinking about that you could do similar thing with ores as with "rocks" in one of the recent updates (instead of flint on the ground u get the same stone as in the general vicinity) there could be small surface deposits but that tells you what ore is in that area. (say i found a small amount of iron on the surface i would know that if i went mining there i would likely find more.)

That wouldn't be half bad you know... If bioxx actually implements something like this I might come back to this mod.

Cause seriously, update after update this mod is only getting idiotically tedious and boring and I can't imagine anyone having fun looking for days (real life days) all the time with stone tools to suddenly come up with a gargantuan vein of Iron, Gold, or whatever and even then being able to do jack **** because they don't have Tin or copper to be able to work it further. And they have to waste even more days of their lives to find Tin or whatever.

And on a related note, the propick has become truly useless now, with a 25x25x25 scan range I've been getting Coal, Bismuth, and other crap readings around the same area rendering a triangulation technique useless since I can't get solid readings on whats' what and where is it. Seriously this only forces people to dig a 25x25 chasm and dig down praying to come up with a vein in the process...

Sigh... Chest nerf, silly ore spawn rates (someone made an analogy about 'going from level 3 to level 80 in a second' And somebody else talked about how silly it is for only one person in this world to go looking for ores and stuff.) and even when one finds ore, you don't even feel such an achievement, since you will practically have ore for the rest of your world and you wont have to travel further for it... This mod has really lost the balance between realism, 'believabilty' , historical accuracy or wathe****ever you wanna call it and Gameplay. This mod was going places, now its only losing more and more people by the hour.

Oh well. Back to playing Technic. I'll lurk in the forums for a bit and keep an eye on the updates, I really hope bioxx can get the mod out of... well, its' current state. Oh and by the way, does anyone here know a nice Tekkit server? Not too advanced though :3

[Bioxx 796]

All of the nay-saying is a bit overboard. How many times have I altered features drastically? Answer, many times. Balancing a mod this big is very precarious, especially when you are attempting to balance for the future as well. Yes the chest and ore gen changes could've waited until there was more infrastructure to accommodate.

Q. Why do you guys think that I made those changes now?

A. No matter when I made the changes, I was going to hear the whining. So I decided to make the changes ahead of time in order to get a good feel for the difficulty without all the other stuff. Not to mention that when things change later, you'll have a much better appreciation.

I think that by now I should have earned enough faith from you guys that you should know I don't do things just to add tedium. I have reasons for these changes even if you don't get it. The mod is in BETA. I'm not done yet! Not every feature will be complete when I release it. Many times you'll see something added and taken away and re-added in a new form. It's an iterative process. Sometimes features will totally break the game balance. Often times there are reasons for this as well. If you want to complain that everything is going downhill etc then fine, but at least be fair and make those claims once the mod is out of beta. What you see today is not at all representative of what you may see in a month or even a week.

I make a changes and push it to the public because as a designer, there are some things that you can't predict on your own. You need to be able to see large scale testing. That is where you guys come in. I appreciate all the hours that you guys put into the mod and the feedback. Just try to understand the process.

[Too-DAMN-Much 8]

i just want to clarify, while i am being extremely vocal about how broken certain things are and that the mod really isn't enjoyable at current, i do have faith that at some point it will be even better than we remember, it just sucks being the guinea pig sometimes, but i know based on previous builds that you are definitely capable of making a fun and balanced mod.

anyway, thanks for your hard work bioxx and don't take our criticisms personally.

[edit] just saw the 46d change log and i'm already hyped about getting back into tfcraft! [/edit]

[DarkLadyPhoenix 62]

i just want to clarify, while i am being extremely vocal about how broken certain things are and that the mod really isn't enjoyable at current, i do have faith that at some point it will be even better than we remember, it just sucks being the guinea pig sometimes, but i know based on previous builds that you are definitely capable of making a fun and balanced mod.

All of this. I really enjoy this mod as a whole.

We have fruit trees, cookable eggs

Weather

Wolves and bears that don't just stand there and stare at you.

Upteen number of new decorative blocks <3

Being able to make weapons and tools in a dynamic and interesting way

Vanilla just doesn't hold a candle to this amazing mod that 'fixes' so many problems in vanilla. I do miss my auto harvester though because I refuse to use smart moving.

Since 40 though, patches have just become frustrating and as testers that frustration just builds sometimes.

I can't see 46c or d changelog

[Master_Aricitic 6]

I'll reiterate my second post in this thread. Once you understand how to use the prospector's pic it is much easier to use. Sure, it scans a large area, sure it can give confusing results some times... But you HAVE to use it more than once once you find a material, then make markings to remember where the borders of the ore is. I was playing on a map with a desert and some tin (ore) in it. I dug a 10x10 pit down and very quickly found the ore. I was able to do this because (other than sand being very easy to dig) I knew where the 'nothing of interest' was around the actual ore. Sure, it reduces the pic to nothing more quickly than some would like, but it IS usable, just tedious sometimes. Running around counting out 25 blocks (which wouldn't work anyway) doesn't help, go by about 7 to 10 maximum.

Mapping is important. If you don't want to use a mini-map mod, then place dirt, wool, or something else at the edges...