Ore generation- Is this permanant?

[DarkLadyPhoenix 62]

I feel as if I am complaining again, but maybe someone can explain this to me in a logical manner and it will all make sense. I feel as if this is becoming less and less of a game to me and more russian roulette. Please excuse me as I try to explain myself

Build 39, ore was in small pockets but everywhere. Every single day was a 'huzzah! I found ore!" moment. Yes it ended up being only two small stacks but it was enough to get you that tool you were after. You'd find more tomorrow for the next tool with a bit of digging.

Build 40-44 we had found very very little ore. It was an eternal source of frustration. Chests were nerfed because we weren't supposed to be hoarding things- we were supposed to be surviving.

The chest nerf I get to a point and I'm happy not keeping those flowers, jems and other ridiculous nonsense. However, I'm still having great difficulty putting together ore for an anvil while juggling my inventory with the small chests. Work on metal management could be addressed.

Today kinda opened my eyes. Here's what I don't get:

Build 43+ the veins have been ridiculously huge. I wish I had a screenie of the bismuth vein that was found on Nessja, but it took me 3 days of eight hours to find it. (And I didn't even find it, someone else did it for me )

It was seriously enough to feed the entire server all week had that map gone on. It was inside a ravine and went from ceiling to floor and about 5-7 ore deep.

Here's a gold vein that was found just today: 1 2 3

That hole was an entire inventory's worth that was taken out. Just pretend that went to the ceiling.

But why even bother filling up your inventory? A single double chest won't fit it all. You find a single ore vein and it lasts you literally the entire rest of the game. Just write it down or mark it on the map and no more ore hunting for you. No more 'huzzah' moments.

Do other people find this fun? Maybe I'm 'just doing it wrong' but I prefer steady progression and hitting those little milestones like we had in 39 where there wasn't a shitton of ore in secluded spots, but you could find small chunks within a few hours.

Since it hasn't been mentioned in the notes for 45, is this not a bug/mistake? Are these 'realistic' (Yes, I'm using the forbidden r-word) large veins of rare ore to be the thing now?

[Sarethor 3]

I also believe the pendulum has swung a long way opposite where it was pre39. In my opinion too far, within the context of the current usage vs storage paradigm. I think perhaps somewhere further down the slope of frequency vs size of veins might be a good compromise.

It took me ~6hrs of purely mining within various igneous layers across 2 adjacent biomes (and ~1.3e09 pro picks) to find a single bismuthinite vein at Y=51. After pulling 12 stacks out of it, it probably still has 2-3x that many remaining. Quite a haul but hard to justify it given the starter ores somewhat limited use, the scarcity of anything else, and current constraints on storage.

Thanks Bioxx and please keep up the amazing work.

[Jed1314 420]

-snip-

Apologies for the lazy quote Phoenix. Firstly, don't think you are complaining. You're merely voicing your opinion on the mod and features you think are flawed, then setting out your reasoning. Undue complaining would be "This new ore gen sucks ! Gawd !"

As far as realism goes, ore is a very difficult thing to do "realistically" the reason for this is that it can be formed in a huge variety of ways.

To give two contrasting examples, iron often forms through the process of sedimentation, with mineral rich sea brine being deposited on the sea floor, leading to very large deposits of banded iron (which would be huge continuous "blocks" of ore as iron readily forms compounds, meaning it mixes with the rock)

Let us contrast this with gold, which is a "noble" metal, meaning it can not form compounds readily. Gold is usually found in long, thin veins (usually along with quartz) around plate boundaries, and is brought to the earths surface in solution by hydrothermal flows in faults.

We can see from these two examples alone that ore formation/dimensions are a complex and varied issue. What I will say all ore deposits have in common is that they tend to be grouped in bulk quantities in specific area's as opposed to scattered across the world. There is a reason for this also. When you think about it, it takes very special geological circumstances for ore to form. These geological events are not small either. This means that anything formed by them will be in massive quantity and clustered in certain areas.

Here is a diagram of the distribution of some ore veins for your viewing pleasure:

I typed all that out then realised I misread your post -.- I'm still posting it, as I put a lot of work and loving care into that !

I prefer the realistic ore distribution, I find small ore deposits frustrating and disappointing

As far as I'm concerned, there's nothing better than looking for hours then suddenly hitting the motherload

[Holy_Shield 17]

I think to offset this very issue wasn't the amount of ore needed to create an ingot increased also?

[warfighter67 124]

I think to offset this very issue wasn't the amount of ore needed to create an ingot increased also?

I believe so, because before iirc it was like 2-3 ores to an ingot and now it's 5-7

[DarkLadyPhoenix 62]

Smelted just the ore I had, so 1 inventory full and it filled up 2 1/2 chests. Left the rest for the 9 others on my server. No idea what I' going to do with 2 1/2 chests of gold especially now that I have little room for anything else.

While these ridiculously large deposits -are- fun, that's all I've found so far are these ridiculously large deposits.

I just.... don't find having more than I can possibly handle fun, especially when it takes 3 grueling days to get them.

If this was a standard game, it would be like staying at level 1 for months then suddenly getting level 80.

Level 1 is not fun to me, especially when I'm stuck at level 1 for so long. Literally hitting my pick against a brick wall and getting nowhere. Level 80 is not fun necessarily either if there is an instant way to get to 80. The progression between the two are.

[BloodravenD 7]

Exactly how I've been feeling, like the ore is either spread too thin or the deposits are too large. I know that's how real ore would generate, but I see it as more of a hassle in a game, that's supposed to be fun.

[Truculent 2]

Historically, surface or near-surface deposits were common sources of metal. Alluvial or placer deposits were commonly mined for tin (cassiterite), iron (magnetite), gold, and silver. Limonite and other precipitated ores such as goethite are formed in bogs and other groundwater-bearing areas. In the same vein (hah!), laterite soils are also near-surface sources of iron and nickel.

[Incompatibility 16]

Imagine how long it would take to get to blue steel. Probably weeks of in-game time to gather the required ores for such a thing, since in the current generation they would be so spread out.

[cevkiv 156]

This isn't supposed to be about "realism", it's supposed to be about "believability". Yet that must take a back seat to fun.

This mod has stopped being fun for me.

Between the chest nerf, and the change in ore generation, it's not fun any more.

[DarkLadyPhoenix 62]

Historically, surface or near-surface deposits were common sources of metal. Alluvial or placer deposits were commonly mined for tin (cassiterite), iron (magnetite), gold, and silver. Limonite and other precipitated ores such as goethite are formed in bogs and other groundwater-bearing areas. In the same vein (hah!), laterite soils are also near-surface sources of iron and nickel.

Funny you say that.... something like this?

Our server has enough copper to feed 3 servers. Not kidding. Same with Galena and cass obviously. Once we *find* iron, there will be no need to explore. Ever.

"Motherlodes" are one thing where you can bring back an inventory load and feel rich. Entire caves of nothing but copper, lead and cass are another.

This isn't supposed to be about "realism", it's supposed to be about "believability". Yet that must take a back seat to fun.

That was entirely my point Total realism isn't fun, that's why I play games. I would think that's why this game's focus is believability.

[calfolfsky 0]

No complaints coming from me Now I can finally try making armor for once...

[cevkiv 156]

Funny you say that.... something like this?

Our server has enough copper to feed 3 servers. Not kidding. Same with Galena and cass obviously. Once we *find* iron, there will be no need to explore. Ever.

"Motherlodes" are one thing where you can bring back an inventory load and feel rich. Entire caves of nothing but copper, lead and cass are another.

That was entirely my point Total realism isn't fun, that's why I play games. I would think that's why this game's focus is believability.

The fact that I am failing to find any surface deposits isn't believable. As someone else already mentioned, they SHOULD be there. The only reason you don't see them these days is because people have already mined them out.

So, new Minecraft World == Surface Ore Deposits.

[spudcosmicc 2]

Ha! The gold veins reminded me of dwarf fortress. Often times my fortress walls were made of gold ore because I dug it out right in the middle of one of them.

[Truculent 2]

Funny you say that.... something like this?

No, y=47 is nothing at all like a surface deposit. By surface deposit I mean something like this :

"A tiny (15 m wide) black magnetite dune in the lee of Dune 30 of the Pampa de Jaguay group. A representative sample from this dune measured 46.3% magnetic weight recovery in the Davis Tube. The author attributes the increased heavy mineral content to the winnowing action of turbulent airflow coming from the crest of Dune 30."

[DarkLadyPhoenix 62]

I was more referring to the vein within a vein thing. I'm well aware that there are very few surface deposits.

[Truculent 2]

I was more referring to the vein within a vein thing. I'm well aware that there are very few surface deposits.

I guess I misunderstood you then, but I was only talking about the lack of nearly any ores within a short distance of the surface. I realize the mod has both realism and scarcity as goals, and these are difficult things to balance. However I feel the removal of most ore near the surface removes a degree of realism, while the addition of giant blobs of ore at depth is a step back from scarcity.

[Gorni 73]

My opinion: I like the huge veins deep down. But i can just support the fact that we will see more surface deposits. It really needs more. On the server im playing currently i found a lot of ores, but NO deposit was above y115. So you have to dig very deep just to get to the ores, which can't be the intention.

I guess it needs a bit of tweaking for the surface deposits, but the deep down deposits are fine for me.

[cevkiv 156]

This change was just a bad idea. It makes people not want to play the mod anymore.

[Jed1314 420]

I think the change was just before it's time. I actually love it

BUT

It really would have been better to implement the infrastructure for such changes first, and then change the ore gen.

[UnderCuvaHippo 27]

I like the new vein spawning, I like that you look really hard for one vein, mark the location, possibly build a minecart track to it and have a mine instead of having to go search and come back with a few stacks of ore and go search again.

[Jed1314 420]

I like the new vein spawning, I like that you look really hard for one vein, mark the location, possibly build a minecart track to it and have a mine instead of having to go search and come back with a few stacks of ore and go search again.

Exactly, but he really should have put in place all the stuff for an effective infrastructure first though, such as an early game mine cart alternative and smaller player inventories. That way, there might not have been so many people complaining

[cevkiv 156]

Exactly, but he really should have put in place all the stuff for an effective infrastructure first though, such as an early game mine cart alternative and smaller player inventories. That way, there might not have been so many people complaining

Or maybe he shouldn't have made changes that make the game far more tedious and time consuming.

If I wanted to play Dwarf Fortress, I would play Dwarf Fortress.

[M_So 3]

Or maybe he shouldn't have made changes that make the game far more tedious and time consuming.

If I wanted to play Dwarf Fortress, I would play Dwarf Fortress.

With dwarf fortress you have hundreds of dwarfs all digging away. on SSP your alone. The only way to commpare the 2 games is to kill off 6 of your starting dwarfs and play with just one.

Atleast with SMP you have a lot more people so it offers room for trade and stuff.

In short it might work for SMP but it is horribly broken for SSP.

[zoran 31]

Or maybe he shouldn't have made changes that make the game far more tedious and time consuming.

If I wanted to play Dwarf Fortress, I would play Dwarf Fortress.

"just as the game that served as the initial inspiration for this mod, Dwarf Fortress"

Well looks like you've got a problem then.