Chest size fix.

[SilvaDreams 15]

Honestly I don't see anything wrong with the chests, I'm actually waiting for Bioxx to make the player inventories smaller to match the decrease in chest size.. Heaven forbid you'll have to make a dedicated storage area or work with other people on SMP....

Though honestly I can't say I've ever had anyone mess with my things on a SMP server without asking first, generally the communities I join or are part of we won't try to screw one another over.

[ancientpower 32]

I don't find it believable that a human being is capable of carrying on their person four times the amount of materials that will fit inside a 1x1x2 meter box.

it's a video game, not everything has to be believable

if you make everything 1:1 to reality it starts to become a mindless, fun-less grind

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

it starts to become a mindless, fun-less grind

So... just like reality?

[/cynicism]

[Buzhwaz 17]

the chest size might be right for a certain game mechanic, and i can see that, but the idea that i can carry more things in my arms than i can store in a chest is strange.

how about a chest that holds more of a specific type of item based on the building that it's in or near.

for example... when you build a forge, all the chests within x number of blocks it will hold larger stacks of charcoal or ore.

you could also build a silo to buff food chests, a quarry for stone chests, etc...

[Buzhwaz 17]

you could also simply craft containers for specific items. like a jewelry box could hold dozens of gems, but no tools.

[Endless_Riddles 0]

If the chest is going to be changed so does inventory it does not make sense i can carry two full chests around while still running around

[fred da kiko 28]

So... just like reality?

[/cynicism]

Yes, and that's why we play videogames. To temporarily escape reality.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

So... just like reality?

[/cynicism]

Yes, and that's why we play videogames. To temporarily escape reality.

Just reading this two posts made my day XD

...And also, depresed me

...Meh, lets see some youtube videos

[bsb23 303]

Okay, too much realism here I doubt half of you could even carry a cubic meter of stone. This inventory is for balance so we don't need to take more time to travel than we do to actually do things. You couldn't even fit a single block in a chest. But in minecraft you can and that's why we all play minecraft. I have always thought of minecraft as a dream that you are in control of it is so much fun because you can do whatever the heck you want but your mind still needs things to make sense at least a little bit anyways. Thats what this mod is, a dream, making everything make perfect sense would just make it real life and lets be honest real life has more content.

[Jasnatdic 85]

Okay, too much realism here I doubt half of you could even carry a cubic meter of stone.

I doubt anyone here could carry a cubic meter of stone, that would be something like 2-3 tons depending on the stone type.

[cevkiv 156]

Honestly I don't see anything wrong with the chests, I'm actually waiting for Bioxx to make the player inventories smaller to match the decrease in chest size.. Heaven forbid you'll have to make a dedicated storage area or work with other people on SMP....

Though honestly I can't say I've ever had anyone mess with my things on a SMP server without asking first, generally the communities I join or are part of we won't try to screw one another over.

I have no problem making warehouses.

The problem I have is I now have to devote more than three times as much space as before to making warehouses. I don't want to spend my time designing a 100x100, multi-story warehouse to house everything I find.

Furthermore, you don't seem to grasp the problem here.

If you reduce the player inventory, that means that if I find an ore vein, one of the current, massive ones, and we'll be very generous here and say I only have to traverse 1000m to get there from my warehouse, it would take me dozens of trips to mine, and then transport that material back to my giant ass, stupidly large warehouse. I don't want to spend LITERAL HOURS of my time CARRYING SHIT BACK AND FORTH.

THAT IS NOT FUN.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

it's a video game, not everything has to be believable

if you make everything 1:1 to reality it starts to become a mindless, fun-less grind

There would be a fairly ready made solution to inventory issues.

When you initially spawn on a new world, your inventory should be TINY, basically all you can carry with your hands.

They should work in another wearable item slot for sacks/backpacks/etc. These should eventually be enchantable, and should increase the number of slots you can carry (and total weight if you're going to implement it that way.)

There should be tiers of storage-item types all of them enchantable or improvable to some degree before having to swap out and trade up.

(sort of like a better version of the backpack mod.)

[ancientpower 32]

There would be a fairly ready made solution to inventory issues.

When you initially spawn on a new world, your inventory should be TINY, basically all you can carry with your hands.

They should work in another wearable item slot for sacks/backpacks/etc. These should eventually be enchantable, and should increase the number of slots you can carry (and total weight if you're going to implement it that way.)

There should be tiers of storage-item types all of them enchantable or improvable to some degree before having to swap out and trade up.

(sort of like a better version of the backpack mod.)

yes, this has been suggested countless times, and I'm pretty sure there's at least one open thread about it in this forum right now

as long as your starting inventory isn't smaller than the hotbar and backpacks aren't too hard to craft, I have no arguments about this

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

After many many complaints and topics on the matter of the recent chest nerfing I have the idea of simpling adding a config option the allows it be be original vanilla size or the nerfed TFC size. A simple true/false option in the config file. Or possibly even a midway where instead of being 1/3 size have it 2/3 which would be a good agreement.

I don't think we'll do this. The nerfed chest size has been something bioxx has wanted for a long time, we feel it makes the game feel a lot more realistic.

[DoodTheDud 29]

The thing is, if you allow an easy option, players swap to it when frustrated or "well just because X"

Not allowing it at all removes the temptation and maintains the challenge.

Basically, players don't always know what they find fun. It's a part of an overall experience.

[cevkiv 156]

The thing is, if you allow an easy option, players swap to it when frustrated or "well just because X"

Not allowing it at all removes the temptation and maintains the challenge.

Basically, players don't always know what they find fun. It's a part of an overall experience.

<snip> I know what I find fun, and the reduced chest sizes are NOT fun.

Edited 23 Jul 2012 by spAnser
Edited for language.

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

I know what I find fun, and the reduced chest sizes are NOT fun.

Cool your heels bro.

Insulting a bad idea may be perfectly fine and acceptable and may I say strikingly handsome, but no need to insult people.

Dood is entitled to his opinion, as are you.

As for the sizes - are you a game designer? I'm guessing not. Because if people designed games based on what they thought they found fun, they'd swiftly realize that they are usually wrong about their own feelings.

say Johnny Q picks up Java and decides to write himself a game. Well Johnny likes RTS's, so he starts writing out a simple one. At one point, he figures it might be cool to add a unit you could upgrade independently from the others, and it could have special abilities. That would be pretty fun.

But it's not really easy to do upgrades like that without a leveling system, so he codes in one of those too. Playtesting, he notices the special character dies a lot. 'Well that's no fun', he thinks, 'maybe I should add potions to heal them?'. So he adds in those, and then has to make a special building where you can buy that the same way you buy other units like tanks and shit - it ends up becoming a shop.

And one 'fun' thing Johnny adds after another, until the game more closely resembles an RPG with light RTS elements.

,..Well that's cool and all, but there's one problem - Johnny doesn't like RPGs

You can't just add whatever you like to a game because you think it's fun - you have to remember to keep consistency with the original idea. This is what separates a proper game designer from your average Joe Blow - a designer knows when and what they have to sacrifice to keep consistency, tone, balance, and a whole cadre of other important elements that a game requires to be considered 'good'.

[cevkiv 156]

Cool your heels bro.

Insulting a bad idea may be perfectly fine and acceptable and may I say strikingly handsome, but no need to insult people.

Dood is entitled to his opinion, as are you.

As for the sizes - are you a game designer? I'm guessing not. Because if people designed games based on what they thought they found fun, they'd swiftly realize that they are usually wrong about their own feelings.

say Johnny Q picks up Java and decides to write himself a game. Well Johnny likes RTS's, so he starts writing out a simple one. At one point, he figures it might be cool to add a unit you could upgrade independently from the others, and it could have special abilities. That would be pretty fun.

But it's not really easy to do upgrades like that without a leveling system, so he codes in one of those too. Playtesting, he notices the special character dies a lot. 'Well that's no fun', he thinks, 'maybe I should add potions to heal them?'. So he adds in those, and then has to make a special building where you can buy that the same way you buy other units like tanks and shit - it ends up becoming a shop.

And one 'fun' thing Johnny adds after another, until the game more closely resembles an RPG with light RTS elements.

,..Well that's cool and all, but there's one problem - Johnny doesn't like RPGs

You can't just add whatever you like to a game because you think it's fun - you have to remember to keep consistency with the original idea. This is what separates a proper game designer from your average Joe Blow - a designer knows when and what they have to sacrifice to keep consistency, tone, balance, and a whole cadre of other important elements that a game requires to be considered 'good'.

I once designed and coded a MUD in C. For fun. I have one of the backups if you'd like proof.

So yes, I have a very good idea of what is involved in making a game.

[cevkiv 156]

Furthermore, when I was writing my MUD, there were MULTIPLE times when I said, "You know what would be really neat/fun/awesome? Feature X!"

And then I'd add Feature X to the MUD.

And then in play testing it would turn out it was a bad idea. Because it detracted from, not added to, the game experience.

I liked this mod when I first found it because everything I found added to the Minecraft experience.

These new changes to Ore Generation, and, in particular, the nerf to chest sizes detract from my experience. They make it less enjoyable. Less fun. They make the game far more tedious and time consuming. I'm all for resource management. What I'm against is taking Resource Management to absurd levels, and forcing the player to make dozens of unneeded trips back and forth that weren't needed before.

[GCountach 39]

While a config option would be cool, I rather like the standardization of the smaller sizes. It removes possible conflicts between client and server (what is one client allows big chests and one doesn't?).

The bigger problem with chests size nerf is that, as of right now, it's the only way to store anything. I rather development time be spent implementing new storage options then a config switch. In the end, better storage options would be more beneifcial to the mod.

[cevkiv 156]

While a config option would be cool, I rather like the standardization of the smaller sizes. It removes possible conflicts between client and server (what is one client allows big chests and one doesn't?).

The bigger problem with chests size nerf is that, as of right now, it's the only way to store anything. I rather development time be spent implementing new storage options then a config switch. In the end, better storage options would be more beneifcial to the mod.

There would be no client/server conflict. Any competent developer would make the client do what the server wants. If the server uses nerfed chests, any client playing on that server has no choice but to use nerfed chests. If the server is using normal chests, all clients connected to the server have no choice but to use normal chests.

That's how client-server architecture works. The server FORCES the client to do thing.

[Deltasquad10804 0]

Loving the new chest size fix. I try to maintain as little as possible now on my world, and just throw the rest away.... cleared up my hoarding tendencies pretty quickly. I only keep what supplies I need, anything else I leave be until it becomes necessary. While I know this could create problems down the road when operations increase- I'm sure if I can be creative enough I'll get a few ideas on how to maximize efficiency.

[cevkiv 156]

Loving the new chest size fix. I try to maintain as little as possible now on my world, and just throw the rest away.... cleared up my hoarding tendencies pretty quickly. I only keep what supplies I need, anything else I leave be until it becomes necessary. While I know this could create problems down the road when operations increase- I'm sure if I can be creative enough I'll get a few ideas on how to maximize efficiency.

It's not a "fix". A "fix" implies that it was "broken". There was nothing "broken" about chest sizes. This is what is called a "nerf" -- reducing the utility of something because of some deemed overusefulness.

[Jed1314 420]

It's not a "fix". A "fix" implies that it was "broken". There was nothing "broken" about chest sizes. This is what is called a "nerf" -- reducing the utility of something because of some deemed overusefulness.

And that nerf, I (and many others including Bioxx presumably) feel was a long time coming. Yes, I can appreciate how a sudden change such as this has seriously affected many players game experience for the negative. Any change that drastic to a core game mechanic is going to encounter significant resistance. I would highlight two issues, however:

1. This mod is not finished. It is a beta. For all you know, Bioxx is (and there is many indications that this is true) intending to implement higher volume, specialised storage, to reflect a more realistic (and not that "grindy") resource management experience.

2. The only reason you find yourself making "dozens of unneeded trips" is because you refuse to adjust your play style with enough flexibility to account for these changes. In fact. the argument that smaller chests force you to make many trips is invalid, as your inventory dictates the frequency of trips, whereas your chests merely (theoretically) dictates the space required to store the same amount of useless junk.

[Too-DAMN-Much 8]

yeah there undisputably needs to be a way to have the pre-nerf chest sizes back, hell i'm on constantly on the verge of figuring out a way to get the metal/crystal chests mod to work with tfcraft.

yes i store too much junk, i'm aware, but why bother telling people "it'll be useful later" if we're just meant to trash it all anyway, what if you want to still be playing the same world when all those useless gems and unsmeltable metals finally do have a use? you'll be screwed or forced to start a new map, that's what and forgive me if i'm wrong, but is disposable worlds a focal point of this mod? because that's news to me.