I'm back and ... What happened ?!?!

[Jed1314 420]

I've been away in Dublin for 3 days. In the time I was gone there seems to have been a drama shitstorm the likes of which has never been seen before.

What the hell happened ?

There now seems to be a huge division on the forum between groups of people who have different visions for the game.

If I'm going to give my opinion on it, it is this:

Bioxx very kindly dedicates (likely a significant portion of) his free time in order to deliver this mod to you. Some of you would say that doesn't mean he should make decisions that make the mod less popular. Evidently, you have a fundamental misunderstanding of the ideals behind producing a game "mod". Judging from the fact Bioxx has not tried to monetise this mod, I can only come to the conclusion that he is not in this for the money. Which leaves us with the other option, which is that he is in it because of his desire to see his vision of minecraft realised, so that the game reflects something that he considers enjoyable.

Note that your idea of what the mod should be wasn't mentioned there.

Bioxx takes suggestions and constructive criticisms from the community (which is a testament to his open mindedness regarding this mod, in allowing us to input into his plans for his mod), but many of you seem to think that it is your job to dictate what is and what is not a good design feature. You are all just as bad as people who complain about staff members by claiming you pay their wages. Just because Bioxx listens to the feedback from the users on this forum, you seem to assume you have a right to complain about how changes to the gameplay are affecting your enjoyment of the mod. Remember that these mods are optional, and free. Bioxx certainly has no obligation to provide a game that you enjoy. Furthermore, the popularity of the mod is (I presume) secondary to Bioxx's own enjoyment of his creation.

TL;DR - If you don't like what Bioxx is doing with this mod, feel free to give constructive criticism. But remember that if he says something isn't going to change, you complaining isn't constructive. It's his mod, you're just privileged enough to use it.

I have no doubt that some of you will disagree with me. Please, if you feel you have an educated and valid response to this post, make it known !

[Brodiggan 77]

Pardon, but are you referring to the religion thread? If so, well then yes, going back and reading it that thread got way out of hand.

[MDub 68]

IMO, the distaster that was 46a&b (not sure about c) probably contributed more to the anarchy than general sense of entitlement, but youre right... Bioxx and the dev team own the IP. TFC is what they want it to be and nothing more.

[MDub 68]

Pardon, but are you referring to the religion thread? If so, well then yes, going back and reading it that thread got way out of hand.

That was painful to watch

[Sarethor 3]

I just made a similar post in this thread.

Cheers,

Sarethor

[Jed1314 420]

Pardon, but are you referring to the religion thread? If so, well then yes, going back and reading it that thread got way out of hand.

I'm not just referring to the Religion thread. Let's not even talk about that. (we ALL knew that any thread involving any kind of "Belief" was going to result in an allmighty flamewar surely ?)

I'm more talking about the general trend of unease within the community that has been growing ever since B40+

[mrpwase 66]

I'm not just referring to the Religion thread. Let's not even talk about that. (we ALL knew that any thread involving any kind of "Belief" was going to result in an allmighty flamewar surely ?)

I'm more talking about the general trend of unease within the community that has been growing ever since B40+

I wouldn't describe it solely as a flamewar. There was a civilised discussion going on at the same time from a few posters.

I've been using seeds with confirmed massive deposits of ore since B40 or so, because I was having the same problem as other people are having with the ore generation. The mod isn't finished yet, but it's hard to keep that in mind sometimes I suppose.

I would say that, while I'm grateful to Bioxx and the dev team for coming up with and working on this mod (and have donated a tenner to show my thanks), he is producing a game and releasing it to the public - criticism and moaning are bound to happen, and to respond to that with a 'well it's not your mod' isn't terribly helpful either. Maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle?

[Brodiggan 77]

I'm not just referring to the Religion thread. Let's not even talk about that. (we ALL knew that any thread involving any kind of "Belief" was going to result in an allmighty flamewar surely ?)

I'm more talking about the general trend of unease within the community that has been growing ever since B40+

Ah, in that case I'm not so sure I agree with you. There have been quite a few complaints from those who haven't enjoyed some of the changes in the recent patches (particularly those changes that are adding significant time sinks/frustrations to single player)... but as I posted elsewhere, what's the point of this forum if not to post your feedback on the mod (both positive and negative)? You may not agree with those who are unhappy, but telling people that 'if they don't like something or they disagree with the direction Bioxx is taking something they shouldn't complain, because it's a privilege just to get to see the mod at all' is not reasonable. Asking that discussions remain civil is one thing, suggesting someone is uncivil for having the discussion at all is another.

[Jed1314 420]

I wouldn't describe it solely as a flamewar. There was a civilised discussion going on at the same time from a few posters.

I've been using seeds with confirmed massive deposits of ore since B40 or so, because I was having the same problem as other people are having with the ore generation. The mod isn't finished yet, but it's hard to keep that in mind sometimes I suppose.

I would say that, while I'm grateful to Bioxx and the dev team for coming up with and working on this mod (and have donated a tenner to show my thanks), he is producing a game and releasing it to the public - criticism and moaning are bound to happen, and to respond to that with a 'well it's not your mod' isn't terribly helpful either. Maybe the answer is somewhere in the middle?

Ah, in that case I'm not so sure I agree with you. There have been quite a few complaints from those who haven't enjoyed some of the changes in the recent patches (particularly those changes that are adding significant time sinks/frustrations to single player)... but as I posted elsewhere, what's the point of this forum if not to post your feedback on the mod (both positive and negative)? You may not agree with those who are unhappy, but telling people that 'if they don't like something or they disagree with the direction Bioxx is taking something they shouldn't complain, because it's a privilege just to get to see the mod at all' is not reasonable.

I think perhaps you both misunderstand me slightly, and perhaps that is my fault. What I really want people to take from my post is that the game is not finished, and Bioxx does not have the time to justify his design decisions to everybody on the forum. Yes, right now the ore generation does make the game a struggle, (although it could be debated this is less true for SMP which is really the platform this game is designed for) but we can't possibly predict what other changes Bioxx has in mind to balance the recent alterations to chest size etc. It's easy to say "well he should have waited until these other features were finished" but then we would not get the frequent snap shots we all enjoy so much. I would also question what is unreasonable about pointing out to people that the artist ultimately dictates the contents of the painting, so to speak. It is unfair the ferocity with which some (by no means all though, many criticisms have been well thought out and sensible) are attacking these decisions.

As a solely SSP player myself, I understand how frustrating the time issue is (I myself am yet to see a fruit tree bloom), but, I also understand this is as a direct result of my choice to test this mod solo. As such, I accept the consequences for my decision to play the game in a mode it was never made to be played in.

[Brodiggan 77]

I think perhaps you both misunderstand me slightly, and perhaps that is my fault. What I really want people to take from my post is that the game is not finished, and Bioxx does not have the time to justify his design decisions to everybody on the forum.

Ah okay, that's a sentiment I can get behind (though I do wish TFC had a development page ala Dwarf Fortress so we'd have a little more idea at least roughly what features are coming).

[Jed1314 420]

Ah okay, that's a sentiment I can get behind (though I do wish TFC had a development page ala Dwarf Fortress so we'd have a little more idea at least roughly what features are coming).

At first, I was going to direct you to the "Change Logs"

Then I realised you were actually talking sense

Yes, I agree that a lot of these issues could have been avoided if the players were more aware of what long term future changes were coming, so that they did not complain prematurely.

[The Shadow 8]

All I can say is, compared to the regular Minecraft forums, this place seems like an oasis of thoughtful civility.

[Jed1314 420]

All I can say is, compared to the regular Minecraft forums, this place seems like an oasis of thoughtful civility.

That may be true, but compared to it's previous state it's now a war torn nation, where brothers fight against brothers and we all get nowhere

[mrpwase 66]

I think perhaps you both misunderstand me slightly, and perhaps that is my fault. What I really want people to take from my post is that the game is not finished, and Bioxx does not have the time to justify his design decisions to everybody on the forum. Yes, right now the ore generation does make the game a struggle, (although it could be debated this is less true for SMP which is really the platform this game is designed for) but we can't possibly predict what other changes Bioxx has in mind to balance the recent alterations to chest size etc. It's easy to say "well he should have waited until these other features were finished" but then we would not get the frequent snap shots we all enjoy so much. I would also question what is unreasonable about pointing out to people that the artist ultimately dictates the contents of the painting, so to speak. It is unfair the ferocity with which some (by no means all though, many criticisms have been well thought out and sensible) are attacking these decisions.

As a solely SSP player myself, I understand how frustrating the time issue is (I myself am yet to see a fruit tree bloom), but, I also understand this is as a direct result of my choice to test this mod solo. As such, I accept the consequences for my decision to play the game in a mode it was never made to be played in.

That's sensible. If you have a problem or a criticism, you notify the forums and dev team of it civilly as possible. Ditto if you have a suggestion. Don't be a dick. It's a simple rule.

Also like I said, I'm still enjoying playing B45 with the help of the guys who post seeds in the Seed forum. If you want to keep up with the latest snapshot but also have enough ore etc., that's an easy way to do it.

All I can say is, compared to the regular Minecraft forums, this place seems like an oasis of thoughtful civility.

Hmm...I'm not sure about that. Then again I have updated my ignore list so I guess I just have bullshit-cancelling headphones on.

[AcidRein 6]

Pardon, but are you referring to the religion thread? If so, well then yes, going back and reading it that thread got way out of hand.

Lol the second I saw that thread get posted I knew something bad was gonna happen. (not to bash religion or anything) Kept my ass away from all of that like a boss!

[Jed1314 420]

That's sensible. If you have a problem or a criticism, you notify the forums and dev team of it civilly as possible. Ditto if you have a suggestion. Don't be a dick. It's a simple rule.

Also like I said, I'm still enjoying playing B45 with the help of the guys who post seeds in the Seed forum. If you want to keep up with the latest snapshot but also have enough ore etc., that's an easy way to do it.

If only everyone were as level headed.

Lol the second I saw that thread get posted I knew something bad was gonna happen. (not to bash religion or anything) Kept my ass away from all of that like a boss!

Yep. As soon as I see anything about Religion or Politics, I'm either not going to say a thing, or I'm prepared to lose friends and make enemies. I suspect as much happened on that thread.

[mrpwase 66]

Yep. As soon as I see anything about Religion or Politics, I'm either not going to say a thing, or I'm prepared to lose friends and make enemies. I suspect as much happened on that thread.

The things I was suggesting were not modern religion, weren't organised churches and didn't require belief in a god or gods or anything - just a game mechanic with a spiritual feel. Apparently that makes some people furious!

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the devs come up with over the next few months. Butchering and agriculture are going to be awesome.

[Jed1314 420]

The things I was suggesting were not modern religion, weren't organised churches and didn't require belief in a god or gods or anything - just a game mechanic with a spiritual feel. Apparently that makes some people furious!

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the devs come up with over the next few months. Butchering and agriculture are going to be awesome.

I understand your point. I will not speak any further on religion thread matter aside from this singular comment:

I was a DnD player, where religion played a large part in certain aspects of the game. This had it's place as DnD is intended to be a comprehensive fantasy RPG. Things such as that help improve immersion in the game, and breed a feeling of unity with your character.

I am not a fan of the implementation of more spiritual aspects of the game for one simple reason:

I don't (personally) feel this game should have more lore than is absolutely necessary to explain away the mechanics and core features of the game.

By adding a Pantheon of gods, you add the necessity for a fair bit of lore which adds (often unwanted) definition to what some people regard as a game which is "whatever you make of it"

While this mod adds a particular period restraint, I feel that some people may regard the inclusion of gods as a "bridge too far" so to speak.

The implementation of such beings is best left up to add-ons and other such things, which will not force these changes on everyone.

I hope you don't feel that was obligation on the basis of "eww, religion", but a reasonable objection to the feature ?

Yeah the "foodie" improvements are really looking like an awesome set of ideas I'm very excited to start up a wee server with my friends when the time is right

[mrpwase 66]

I understand your point. I will not speak any further on religion thread matter aside from this singular comment:

I was a DnD player, where religion played a large part in certain aspects of the game. This had it's place as DnD is intended to be a comprehensive fantasy RPG. Things such as that help improve immersion in the game, and breed a feeling of unity with your character.

I am not a fan of the implementation of more spiritual aspects of the game for one simple reason:

I don't (personally) feel this game should have more lore than is absolutely necessary to explain away the mechanics and core features of the game.

By adding a Pantheon of gods, you add the necessity for a fair bit of lore which adds (often unwanted) definition to what some people regard as a game which is "whatever you make of it"

While this mod adds a particular period restraint, I feel that some people may regard the inclusion of gods as a "bridge too far" so to speak.

The implementation of such beings is best left up to add-ons and other such things, which will not force these changes on everyone.

I hope you don't feel that was obligation on the basis of "eww, religion", but a reasonable objection to the feature ?

Yeah, that makes sense. It feels weird hearing a sensible viewpoint on the matter.

[Jed1314 420]

Yeah, that makes sense. It feels weird hearing a sensible viewpoint on the matter.

I don't believe in sensationalism or bringing personal politics into debates about in game features. The place for those is in the discussion thread if anywhere. I will only ever state my personal objections to any feature in a detached manner which can convey my sensible objections, while removing any personal squabbles from the equation

Or at least I try to do that, I'm only human and everyone makes mistakes :L

[DarkLadyPhoenix 62]

At first, I was going to direct you to the "Change Logs"

Then I realised you were actually talking sense

Yes, I agree that a lot of these issues could have been avoided if the players were more aware of what long term future changes were coming, so that they did not complain prematurely.

Being able to prepare for changes is useful, but at the same time, that's more work to type up something that may be taken out at the last minute.

While I'd LOVE to be able to totally ignore 'disaster patches' like 40 and 46 to cut down on my own stress by only playing with changes I like, this would reduce the number of testers we have significantly.

As much of a pain in the butt it is to be greeted with a map that has no ore or no animal drops, if no one tested these 'disaster patches', we might also never find the fact that heat was also borked, yes?

[The Nameless Name 9]

True. I don't think that ore gen. will be a complaint after 47 is released though If you are not familiar with marcopolo1613's work google the better ore distribution mod.