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Bioxx

Kingdoms Brainstorming

899 posts in this topic

How about approaching NPCs the other way around? What I mean is - no or few NPC cities / villages. Instead have NPCs move into player cities as soon as they reach a certain size (kind of like in Dwarf Fortress). The players could then build accomodations for NPCs and (maybe in a later iteration) also set up areas where NPC traders could sell wares to the players. This could then be expanded much further with a "real" economy where NPCs could be supplied with goods to have them produce certain items etc. there's quite a lot of possibilities but I'd like to concentrate on the basic idea first.

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To those of you suggesting config options for various things...don't you think it'd be a bit tidier to create in-game ways to toggle these things?

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To those of you suggesting config options for various things...don't you think it'd be a bit tidier to create in-game ways to toggle these things?

But could tarnish gameplay, I think we'd rather let you alter your world externally so to speak than give you power of that sort in game, takes away from where we'd like to take the game.
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Yes! Thank you Lumi! I was going to say this soon but was too lazy. Eventually there will be server to server travel in fact ive heard one is avaliable now. But when this happens if we have servers that have a bunch of config options then traveling between them will be a pain in the butt. If the options are all there in-game though then all servers options will be the same but the way they use them will different.

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Yes! Thank you Lumi! I was going to say this soon but was too lazy. Eventually there will be server to server travel in fact ive heard one is avaliable now. But when this happens if we have servers that have a bunch of config options then traveling between them will be a pain in the butt. If the options are all there in-game though then all servers options will be the same but the way they use them will different.

I think there are some inherent problems with that. If you don't like the config options of a server don't go there.
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But could tarnish gameplay, I think we'd rather let you alter your world externally so to speak than give you power of that sort in game, takes away from where we'd like to take the game.

This thread has been getting posts like mad, but if you take a look at the post I wrote up earlier, splitting the Homestone idea up into a bunch of different Rulestones could potentially address this. Instead of half a dozen configurable settings you could just limit certain Rulestone crafting recipes to certain user groups, or something along those lines.

edit: Not sure if that's what you're going for either, but I think it's a nice in-between that allows for Server Op limitations without choking everything through an intangible config file, even if they're fundamentally similar.

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This thread has been getting posts like mad, but if you take a look at the post I wrote up earlier, splitting the Homestone idea up into a bunch of different Rulestones could potentially address this. Instead of half a dozen configurable settings you could just limit certain Rulestone crafting recipes to certain user groups, or something along those lines.

edit: Not sure if that's what you're going for either, but I think it's a nice in-between that allows for Server Op limitations without choking everything through an intangible config file, even if they're fundamentally similar.

If the config file is the problem, I'm sure we can work something out. I just don't like the idea of blocks or items that exist on the programming side, I think everything in-game should be a part of the game, not the rules to how you play.
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Agreed, all instances of ingame configs for mods have been kinda cumbersome, i much prefer, situation = 0-1 system, or a different external method.

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Honestly, I think that it is wayyy too early to start doing this, I agree it is a good idea but I think all the ores must get a good use, and the mobs should be remade to something realistic, and mabey some more machines added.

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Honestly, I think that it is wayyy too early to start doing this, I agree it is a good idea but I think all the ores must get a good use, and the mobs should be remade to something realistic, and mabey some more machines added.

This isn't for the immediate future. This is a ways off.
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I understand this isn't strictly related to kingdoms, but: please consider doing all you can to make this mod compatible with LogBlock, one of the most popular anti-griefing plugins around, which records who places and destroys everything, making it impossible for griefers to get away with griefing on servers which utilise it. Thanks for your consideration.

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I'm not a fan of blocks that declare rules rather just a decision in-game by each individual faction/city. For instance the descision whether you need papers or not to enter a city could be made by each individual governing body. Private property, type of governing body, basic freedoms, taxes, currency they could all be developed at smaller level rather than a full server being forced to do it one specific way. I would like permission to make a thread on this matter to see what other options and methods we could come up with.

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The problem with players just forming a consensus and living that way is enforceability. All it takes is one asshat to ruin the entire system unless there is a way to enforce these rules. That is the purpose of an in game system designed to enforce things of this nature. And I'll say it again. If you don't want to take advantage of these systems on your server then you do not have to! But the fact remains that without some way to enforce these rules, unless you are a very small tight knit server, people will break the rules when it suits them.

Also I'm not saying that rules will affect the entire server. Anyone who has that impression is wrong. The laws etc are done on a town by town basis. Want to be a monarchy? Thats fine. Live in another town and want a representative democracy? Thats fine too. The freedom to choose.

Eventually I'd like to set up a large official server for TFC and it will take advantage of these systems. Instead of trying to debate about why these should or shouldn't be in TFC, try to come up with ideas that make this the best that it can be.

I think there are some inherent problems with that. If you don't like the config options of a server don't go there.

Dunk and I don't agree on a lot of things regarding Kingdoms :P

I am for these things being set in game and not via config. Configs are like writing something in stone. I don't want to do that. In fact, the more that I can keep you out of a config the better. There are ofc certain things like the cave-in parameters etc that need to exist out of game and be global. But things that are decided by the players on a world by world basis should be determined in game without the use of notepad.

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Erm... Interesting thread. :3 I like playing on SMP servers of any minecraft variation., and like leadership roles i make. I personally joined a tekkit server and ruled an organized company, for three days albeit, but the point is they were all total strangers. The problem is when someone takes charge and dosen't know how to lead a group of people they don't know. Ex., Bioxx leading this thread. Bioxx knows how to keep it under control. the rest of us... Not so much. Honestly, if people can't form their own kingdoms, then they shouldn't be starting a kingdom. If you don't have support of your citizens, then your pretty much SOL.

EDIT: thank Rome: Total War....

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Dunk and I don't agree on a lot of things regarding Kingdoms :P

I sound so official til you step in
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I sound so official til you step in

You can always plan for mutiny. ;)
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If we are going for little steps before large.

Locks & Keys.

  • A new tool, or the chisel used on a metal plate, possibly in the metalurgy table
  • Opens a double Knapping GUI, save with a metal texture
  • You 'cut' your key shape into one side, and its reverse into the other
  • Done correctly this will produce a key and a lock item
  • Each new pattern cut this way produces a difrent lock and key pair as long as it follows a few basic rules
  • (eg: a key must start with a single horizontal or vertical line, a lock must have three soild sides and one opening)
  • When held and clicked onto any door or chest, the door or chests texture changes to show a lock
  • The chest or door will only open if clicked with its key
Also, while it doesnt technicaly make sense, you could add in metal types to increase the number of lock and key pairs people can make. As in a iron key and lock with the same pattern as a steel lock and key, wouldnt open each other.
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If we are going for little steps before large.

Locks & Keys.

  • A new tool, or the chisel used on a metal plate, possibly in the metalurgy table
  • Opens a double Knapping GUI, save with a metal texture
  • You 'cut' your key shape into one side, and its reverse into the other
  • Done correctly this will produce a key and a lock item
  • Each new pattern cut this way produces a difrent lock and key pair as long as it follows a few basic rules
  • (eg: a key must start with a single horizontal or vertical line, a lock must have three soild sides and one opening)
  • When held and clicked onto any door or chest, the door or chests texture changes to show a lock
  • The chest or door will only open if clicked with its key
Nope I like venerable places so if anybody is stupid enough to steal the whole server will be anarchy gone wrong or that person will get mauled.
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post

at this point it just sounds like you're forcing the way you think people should play the game on them

vanilla smp didn't need kingdoms to be fun, so I don't see why TFC does

honestly if you ABSOLUTELY believe these features need to be in the game, my opinion is that you should make them configurable

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at this point it just sounds like you're forcing the way you think people should play the game on them

vanilla smp didn't need kingdoms to be fun, so I don't see why TFC does

honestly if you ABSOLUTELY believe these features need to be in the game, my opinion is that you should make them configurable

Once again... Mutiny?
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Nope I like venerable places so if anybody is stupid enough to steal the whole server will be anarchy gone wrong or that person will get mauled.

At the same time, there has to be incentives for towns or kingdoms to go to war at each other besides land and resource rights. Having it black or white on if your chests are lootable is a bad decision because you either open yourself to being completely unprotected or making it so that the average soldier looting an enemy town receives no spoils. A lockpick system would provide a middle ground, if done right, that would offer protection but also provide chances of rewards for invaders if they have the skill to pull it off. I would suggest that you would not be allowed to attempt to pick the lock of a fellow citizen, only those of other towns or people who have yet to affiliate themselves with anyone. This could lead to some interesting things like an actual thieves guild employed by the state that sneaks into others locals and steals funds to help their own nation grow.. with a payoff of course. Then if they get caught that provides chances for court investigations to be started and the offending nation the citizen comes from would have to prove innocence on their behalf or risk the nobles themselves being tried or even all out war.

Thievery provides a lot of gameplay options, it just has to be balanced carefully. :)

Actually, this makes me wonder. For a lot of scenarios, global chat would become an issue when a nation wants to handle something secretly. I suggest that each town has a Local channel that you only hear if you are a citizen of that town or within the town boarders. I would also suggest a private chat channel on top of that for war room meetings or the like. There of course would be global chat for normal day to day chatter, but an in game way of keeping important conversations secret outside of a /tell system of a private 3rd party chat system would be nice. This would also allow town guards to coordinate while tracking an invader in their town without said invader knowing what they are up to.

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at this point it just sounds like you're forcing the way you think people should play the game on them

vanilla smp didn't need kingdoms to be fun, so I don't see why TFC does

honestly if you ABSOLUTELY believe these features need to be in the game, my opinion is that you should make them configurable

From the OP:

Will I be forced to play with these rules? Added 8/10

No. If you want to play with no rules, then that's fine. Towns will never be required. I plan to give the players as much control as I can over the systems involved. As many of you have rightly noted, the players will do a much better job creating gameplay than I ever could myself.

---

Sorry for the double post, thought I hit edit. :(

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Yeah.. guys, make sure to check the OP now and again as Bioxx edits it, it may very well answer any questions you may have.

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I don't know about you, but I'm not talking about "griefing". I'm talking about thievery and raiding, which I believe should be a fun and interesting mechanic for both the owner of items and the thief/raider.

I personally want to avoid having NPCs, but NPC guards that patrol the streets and confront strangers is, in my opinion, a FAR better option than protecting land.

Perhaps there could be citizenship cards, and those who don't have them should try to avoid guard confrontations, which could lead to their death or imprisonment.

I don't think you understand. Some people do not find having their shit stolen to be fun and interesting. They view it as hours of their work being taken away from them.

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I don't think you understand. Some people do not find having their shit stolen to be fun and interesting. They view it as hours of their work being taken away from them.

And that's why they will have the whole server on their ass. I won't steal objects, I'm gonna steal a house. I will dig a hole in the floor and hide there.
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