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Bioxx

Kingdoms Brainstorming

899 posts in this topic

I'm not a big fan of greifers and I'm not a big fan of block protections. If it were possible to stop both that would be great but there isn't. Number one there is no way to stop greifers period besides putting them in jail you can only slow them down and most people give the obvious first thought of don't touch my stuff. And if you can't stop them well then the server should. This is server reliance this is what we have been moving away from with the ideas of jails, multiple currencies, you-decide-governments and the general moving away from an external config file and into in-game options.

Another problem is the believability is it believable that some random guy on the road can not just randomly break through your window right now? No! There is no magic force stopping that from happening here irl and it wouldn't make sense for MAGIC (thats right I used a bad word) to do this for you. You should build strong defenses, you should live near other defensive areas and people (cities), and you want to avoid a high-crime area. That is how you avoid crime without magic.

What needs to happen to stop greifers? For starters we need to make it so they need to work to be able to do anything extra there is a possibility this may make them want to protect there own things rather than ruin others. Food should start low enough that if they take any detours from finding food, they will die. We need a tool to identify who has come in contact with or altered a block just a recent list should be fine. People should be able to be marked as an outlaw of that empire. If it were above their name tag that would be perfect. Now people can find the bad guys much more easily. If they run to another empire, well that happens and the outcome would depend most likely on political feelings. Even in other towns they should be marked as an outlaw of the blank empire but only if that information was shared with the empire the villain was hiding in. And then the obvious things jailing, locks, guards of some sort, and strong building material.

Tutorial:

How to put someone in jail

Op type: /jail steve greifing, Console: Steve went to jail for 10 days

Vote type: /votejail steve greifing, Console: Send Steve to jail vote 1 2, Console: Steve went to jail for 10 days, or Console: Send Steve to jail Denied

Why can't we do that, it's a game?

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I'm not sure I understand, what are you suggesting? (I've had a tiring day can you put that in easily understandable terms?)

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give the players the option to throw someone in jail via a vote.

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I'm not sure I understand, what are you suggesting? (I've had a tiring day can you put that in easily understandable terms?)

Do it all with console commands. Ops can put them in jail directly, players can vote and the console asks 1:yes 2:no if ignored it's no.
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The option to throw someone into jail via a vote is too easy to abuse.

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Thanks, I appreciate that, it would work but I have a couple problems with it, starting with my previous argument this is unbelievable . A vote for jailing in a democracy or similar government would be nice though. Its almost unnecessary really also if they have a tag over their head saying here is a bad guy and then have some kind of capture with guards/police it would be really exciting, a magic vote is boring and somewhat of a let down. This system could be abused very easily (like cevkiv said) foreign dignitary walks into town with a hundred guards and then all the sudden he randomly disappears because a leader said so, the same could happen during war. Finally, think of all the political possibilities that are lost sabotage would become impossible a fugitive harboring situation could never occur, even espionage would be limited as at any time they may randomly disappear even if they are well armed.

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Thanks, I appreciate that, it would work but I have a couple problems with it, starting with my previous argument this is unbelievable . A vote for jailing in a democracy or similar government would be nice though. Its almost unnecessary really also if they have a tag over their head saying here is a bad guy and then have some kind of capture with guards/police it would be really exciting, a magic vote is boring and somewhat of a let down. This system could be abused very easily (like cevkiv said) foreign dignitary walks into town with a hundred guards and then all the sudden he randomly disappears because a leader said so, the same could happen during war. Finally, think of all the political possibilities that are lost sabotage would become impossible a fugitive harboring situation could never occur, even espionage would be limited as at any time they may randomly disappear even if they are well armed.

That's not why it's easy to abuse.

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I like the marking idea.... but i don't feel that it fits with previous discussion, if anything a decree is passed down, that all players in the city must apprehend them on sight.

But how to apprehend.... we need police clubs lol, to incapacitate.

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The other button creates a tool (a pair of hand cuffs, say), which may be used by any player on the authorized list of the Hearth Stone on any non-authorized player within the protected area. Doing so would teleport the unauthorized player to a jail area. The Jail Area would be defined by the placement of a special Jail Block, and the area itself would be a 5x5 cube with the Jail Block at its center. Blocks and doors within this 5x5 cube are not breakable under any circumstances by players within the Jail Area -- they must be released by an authorized person of the protected area within which the jail is situated.

Jail Block (placable craftable block)

I have no idea what the items used to craft this would be. Probably lots of metal bars. It should be roughly as expensive (resource wise) to create as a Hearth Stone block. The jail block would provide a way to take care of griefers who are caught in the act. It creates an area, which is linked to handcuff items produced by the Hearth Stone block whose protected area the Jail Block is situated in. This area is where people who have handcuffs used on them are teleported to. Blocks within the Jail Area are not breakable by persons within the Jail Area -- they must be released by someone from outside the area who is on the authorized list of persons in the Hearth Stone of the settlement where the jail is located.
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oops. i forgot that you posted that.

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Well what is the problem then cevkiv an explanation would be nice. Also I definitely could live with a handcuff teleportation system but since we are on track of making sense it would be great to make it all the way through this system. However you are right, a system to actually move criminals is difficult to do, I've only thought of two that don't involve random teleportation so I'm definitely open for ideas especially since these ideas aren't fabulous. Number one, players have control of the arrests and movement, they would need something to move a player with (ropes, handcuffs there are a lot of options) but now we have a problem either we give special random permissions or everyone has permission and greifers have a new tool. To sort of alleviate this it could require more than one person to move someone but there is still, albeit rarely, group greifers who may cause problems. Oh and bonds should be able to be broken by another bystanding player by hitting the detainer. The other option is NPC controlled arrests although ideas relying on NPCs are tough as they aren't reliable sometimes and a player occupying their spot is probably better for gameplay.

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This is why a vote system is bad:

Four players are online.

Three players dislike the fourth player.

The fourth player has done nothing wrong.

VOTE HIM INTO JAIL ANYWAY.

A vote system just makes another way to grief. It's too easy to abuse. Three or four assholes could join the server when there's only 1 or 2 people on and then throw them into jail.

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Under the system I suggest, where someone can only be jailed if they're within town limits (it probably needs to be slightly larger than town limits, as someone might try to run away after getting caught), they have to be where they're not supposed to be to get thrown in jail. And if they're not thrown in jail for a good reason, someone else in the town can let them out. The system could also be set up to where their friends could break into the town to let them out of jail by letting anyone, regardless of whether they're a member of the town in question or not, let someone out if a town's jail.

Instead of handcuffs, you could have a baton. Someone who is "killed" by the baton gets sent to jail. Trespassing (setting foot inside a town you're not a member of) would flag you (this flag would not be visible in the game). The flag persists for sixty seconds after you stop trespassing. So if someone is trying to break through the town wall, someone can go outside and beat them silly with the baton and send them to jail. The person can attempt to run away, and there is the possibility they can get away, but if someone runs from me and I don't think I can catch them I'll just shoot them full of arrows.

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Alternately, it could work like this:

The town is a protected area. Anyone who is not a member of the town will get "flagged" as a criminal when they attempt to break a block, pick a locked door, or open a locked chest. This flag persists for as long as they are in the city limits, and for sixty seconds thereafter. Anyone who is flagged as a criminal can be thrown in jail if beaten to "Death" with the baton. The baton will have no effect on anyone not so flagged. This would allow people to come visit the town for trading purposes without having to worry about getting thrown in jail by some asshole when they haven't done anything.

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Handcuff post

I love that ! I also like the idea of the batons since it gives criminals a chance to escape (which fits with my preference for RP style servers), yet makes it easy to catch them too.

It also allows for what every online game should aspire to, which is self moderation by the playerbase.

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I love that ! I also like the idea of the batons since it gives criminals a chance to escape (which fits with my preference for RP style servers), yet makes it easy to catch them too.

It also allows for what every online game should aspire to, which is self moderation by the playerbase.

Self-moderation is what I would love to see. I don't think we need a lot of mechanics, or even a few complicated mechanics, to get all the desired functionality we want. If designed right, minimal mechanics will naturally lead to the desired behavior.

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Self-moderation is what I would love to see. I don't think we need a lot of mechanics, or even a few complicated mechanics, to get all the desired functionality we want. If designed right, minimal mechanics will naturally lead to the desired behavior.

This mod is unusual in that defining rules should be used to enable the player to enforce their own systems as opposed to developing a system for the players to follow.

It is more akin to defining a set of utilities, as opposed to a system.

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Key - Have to use the scribing table to make it. Then requires a metal ingot of some type and will wear / tear and suffer durability loss and eventually break. Unique ID to the player that crafted it.

Padlock - Lock that is scribed on the table and then made with a metal ingot. Attached to items via right clicking. Automatically keyed to the player crafting it. Can be attached to Chests and Doors.

Locked door - Put a padlock on a door and it is locked. The door cannot be opened or destroyed unless unlocked, and can only be locked / unlocked by the key crafted by the player that placed the padlock.

Locked chest - Put a padlock on a chest and it's locked. The chest cannot be opened or destroyed unless unlocked, and can only be locked / unlocked by the key crafted by the player that placed the padlock.

The player can "hand out" keys to his padlocks, but noone can make a key for them but that player.

The other option would be having Padlock "slots" per player up to like 5-10. So you could have 5-10 different key types / padlocks. The keys would be named "cnumartyr_Key_01" or something similar. This way you can give your friends keys to your humble abode but not to your most precious chests. Each time you make a new key from a blueprint it makes a new key ID. To make a copy of a key you place the key in the plans location rather than a blueprint.

Block Protection - Should only be within X distance of a city center. Place a city center block and within 200m noone can destroy blocks other than the people that place them (aside from Admins). In addition when plots of land are added ONLY the owner of the plot can place blocks on it (aside from Admins).

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Key - Have to use the scribing table to make it. Then requires a metal ingot of some type and will wear / tear and suffer durability loss and eventually break. Unique ID to the player that crafted it.

Padlock - Lock that is scribed on the table and then made with a metal ingot. Attached to items via right clicking. Automatically keyed to the player crafting it. Can be attached to Chests and Doors.

Locked door - Put a padlock on a door and it is locked. The door cannot be opened or destroyed unless unlocked, and can only be locked / unlocked by the key crafted by the player that placed the padlock.

Locked chest - Put a padlock on a chest and it's locked. The chest cannot be opened or destroyed unless unlocked, and can only be locked / unlocked by the key crafted by the player that placed the padlock.

The player can "hand out" keys to his padlocks, but noone can make a key for them but that player.

The other option would be having Padlock "slots" per player up to like 5-10. So you could have 5-10 different key types / padlocks. The keys would be named "cnumartyr_Key_01" or something similar. This way you can give your friends keys to your humble abode but not to your most precious chests. Each time you make a new key from a blueprint it makes a new key ID. To make a copy of a key you place the key in the plans location rather than a blueprint.

Block Protection - Should only be within X distance of a city center. Place a city center block and within 200m noone can destroy blocks other than the people that place them (aside from Admins). In addition when plots of land are added ONLY the owner of the plot can place blocks on it (aside from Admins).

Cevkiv and I have already discussed this at length. That type of system is unfair on people like me, as I want to house a server with destruction enabled pvp. Not using block protection isn't viable due to griefers. Just because I want legit players to attack one anothers Towns, doesn't mean I want griefers running rampant.

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Here's the link to the post I wrote. I'm not gonna copy and paste it and post it again.

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Cevkiv and I have already discussed this at length. That type of system is unfair on people like me, as I want to house a server with destruction enabled pvp. Not using block protection isn't viable due to griefers. Just because I want legit players to attack one anothers Towns, doesn't mean I want griefers running rampant.

Is it that difficult to either have a PvP town block or a "PvE" town block which either enables or disables it? If the issue is block protection then make it so the town can be set to "governed" or FFA.

At the very least I would be for the ability to "overcome" a lock system. I.E. a Wrought Iron lockpick might pick a wrought iron locked chest, but would break on a red steel one. This would make it so inorder to "grief" / steal you have to be fairly established, and not just log onto the server.

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Is it that difficult to either have a PvP town block or a "PvE" town block which either enables or disables it? If the issue is block protection then make it so the town can be set to "governed" or FFA.

At the very least I would be for the ability to "overcome" a lock system. I.E. a Wrought Iron lockpick might pick a wrought iron locked chest, but would break on a red steel one. This would make it so inorder to "grief" / steal you have to be fairly established, and not just log onto the server.

I addressed why simply turning off block protection with an option isn't the way to go. I don't want any towns to be safe on my server. They should all be on an equal footing. Equally, I do not want them to get griefed to oblivion by people. The only reason a town would be attacked on my server is for political reasons. It's simply not fair to expect me to allow people to run amock on my servers because I had to disable block protection to play as I, and my users, want to.

I am pro the idea of lockpicks though.

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Sorry, but I think Cev has solved the 20 page problem we have been trying for so long *holds up applause sign*.

More on topic: Can we agree on harder to make, largely late game gunpowder that isn't nearly as powerful? or even if you don't want to go that late into the renaissance (I think), then late medieval era trebuchets that can hurl rocks, dead cows, people, flaming oil balls (note these were pretty much what the used in the arsenal of stuff to fling). It may be much easier to make whatever entity is flung at a set velocity, or make a gui, or go full on pull a lever however much you feel will be right. I understand siege equipotential may not be at all functional within this play style, but that's all I could think of :3

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Is it that difficult to either have a PvP town block or a "PvE" town block which either enables or disables it? If the issue is block protection then make it so the town can be set to "governed" or FFA.

At the very least I would be for the ability to "overcome" a lock system. I.E. a Wrought Iron lockpick might pick a wrought iron locked chest, but would break on a red steel one. This would make it so inorder to "grief" / steal you have to be fairly established, and not just log onto the server.

well there's just one problem with that lockpick idea... what you're saying is quite literally: the more established players will have better types of metals so will be able to make better lockpicks (and locks) so they can steal from smaller players.

that's not really fair IMO, this way the big ones will stay big by stealing from others, thus keeping the little players suppressed while gaining even more ores/wealth themselves.

also, i'd just log on, try to steal a decent lockpick (killing a rich thief perhaps?) after which i'd steal from other rich bastards, so when you get lucky it's quite easy to just log on and start stealing shizzle

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If you want a town with no greifers you either need to A) be very lucky B) start your own server C) arrest all the greifers, no shortcuts.

Your point was pretty similar to mine although I didn't directly say it I just kind of danced around it. The point was that now the weak have a tool to obliterate their opponents at random now matter how strong which is definitely OP.

Still not agreeing with the teleportation even though I can live with it especially with the baton. We have a small problem why can't greifers use the tool we just used on them. These handcuffs would once again allow for the weak to triumph over the strong for no particular reason. An unfortunate passerby may be randomly jailed even if he was wearing a full suit of armor. The baton is better because it requires strength but I could still see some random guy setting up a "town" and "jail" somewhere you don't want to be jailing everyone he sees, locking the door and throwing away the key. How would a friend save them? They don't know where they are at, remember they randomly teleported there they could be anywhere in a tree or underground, high up in the sky, or who the heck knows where else.

As for the lock picking problem hopefully rich guys won't steal, why? Because they want to protect their own stuff, which can't be done from jail and what if they are caught and are forced to give up all their stuff including their property? I doubt this will be a problem. Hired criminals however may make life interesting as they should though.

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