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Bioxx

Kingdoms Brainstorming

899 posts in this topic

Will the economy be included in Single player?

Only if a large percentage of the player base has Disassociative Identity Disorder

I mean seriously, the fuck kind of question is that

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Only if a large percentage of the player base has Disassociative Identity Disorder

I mean seriously, the fuck kind of question is that

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stop talking about it dont you know the rules ?

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Back to the topic right?

KINGDOMS

FOUNDING A VILLAGE/TOWN

Maybe you could invent an UNFINISHED HOMESTONE (i know the name is awful...i have something better in the back of my head but it won't come out:/). It would be placed by one player and itself wouldn't do anything, but could not be destroyed with tools.

Then other players would have to sign up at the city block as future citizen's.

05 Signatures = Small Village

10 Signatures = Village

15 Signatures = Big Village

20 Signatures = Small Town

...

and so on.

So the minimum number of citizens would be 5, "mayor" included (He signs up automatically when placing the block),

and as soon as this number is met, the UNFINISHED HOMESTONE would turn into a HOMESTONE and the vilage border is set.. Of course people could sign up later still to increase the city's borders.

The different stages of the City would determine it's maximum size.

I'm not good at mineraft distances.. but i would guess a...

30x30 or 40x40 square or a 30/40 diameter circle would be a good start for a small village right?

It should be enough to fit a few homes and some fields (they could of course also be outside of the village borders)

I think this might be interesting because it would also make "fighting for land" possible:

Two players who don't like each other or for some reason want to be mayor

(we still haven't figured out what good it brings to be mayor right?) could be wanting to settle in the same beautiful valley.

Both place down they're blocks and start to advertise for themselves, whoever gets the required votes first "wins" the fight and gets the land. The other UNFINISHED HOMESTONE breaks, loses all his signatures and can be picked up again by the owner.

So far for the starting of villages.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I would also like the possibility of neighboring villages to create the "kingdoms" that this thread was named after.

Imagine a city, that is expanding more and more due to increasing population, and in the course of that it's borders meet with those of a small village.

I have two options for that case:

FORMING ALLIANCES/ CREATING COUNTRIES/KINGDOMS/REPUBLICS/...

As soon as your borders touch or they are connected by a road (a little hint that i love that idea with roads and carts by Jed) and not more then a certain distance from each other, you would get a message at the mayors office (I would like to have something like that introduced! Gives a meaning to the mayor and also a bit of responsibility, more about that later), that you have the chance to create an alliance.

Doing so would add ANOTHER border, the alliance border, which would include both of your village borders and some land around.

The village rules (no building by non-citizens and such) should not count in the inbetween land though, as people like Hunters or Hermits ( haha just a funny example) would maybe not want to live in the village but could want to stay close for trading and such (Dunk was talking about making EVERYTHING in TFC skill right?).

That would be a peaceful agreement on making an alliance based on equality.

Well in reality it doesn't always happen like that.

The other version of enlarging your Kingdom would therefore be:

TAKING OVER A VILLAGE/CITY

This wouldn't even need to add a lot of new mechanics to the game!

It's just that other villages could declare war and then go and attack the village until either: the mayor is dead, and the "City Center/Homestone/Village block/whatever) is conquered and held for a bit, or the mayor would give up and hand over his village to the enemy (Another thing for the mayor to do! See a mayor IS really important at times).

The Village would then be incorporated into the other towns/countries Border through placing an ALLIANCE FEATHER into the MAYORS DESK of the village.

_____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Now in order to control the Villages, Towns and Kingdoms, one would need some sort of government and government Items.

GOVERNMENT METHODS

This would work in small scale as well as in big scale (I hope).

VILLAGE

The mayor as a founder of the town, has to control what is happening at his village.

Appointing subordinates or a "vice-mayor" could also be incorporated.

Basically the mayor gets two things, as soon as his village is established.

MAYORS DESK: A Block, that the mayor uses for Governing the village.

The functions incorporated could be:

1. A header for the name of the kingdom the village is part of.

2. A list of the citizens as well as their active status (online/offline; and for how long) and their job in the village.

3. A list of allianced cities/cities in the kingdom, as well as a direction of where they are (not coordinates though i hate that! Who "thinks" in coordinates)

4. A page to create OFFICIAL DOCUMENTS.

4. A slot for the MAYORS FEATHER.

5. A slot for ink. (Ink would stay in the desk even when the interface is closed)

MAYORS FEATHER: An item that is "soulbound" ergo has the Mayors name on it. It must be placed in the MAYORS DESK in order to change anything in it. The mayor can give it to someone else, who can use it, and will also lose it when dieing like any other item.

It can also be used to sign up for Alliances and Kingdoms. If the mayor wants to give his Status to someone else or appoint a vice-mayor, he can create an OFFICIAL DOCUMENT, which, when used, works like a server command (because i think using server commands is kind of not so cool). Of course the Documents would have to have a certain structure for it to work, similar to a command.

ALLIANCE/KINGDOM

The same thing would be introduced for Alliances. Just in ALLIANCE/KINGDOM DESK and ALLIANCE/KINGDOM FEATHER.

The one who set up the ALLIANCE STONE, would get the items upon adding his first alliance partner.

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________

I think that is pretty much all i have for now. hope you like it and i hope the post is okay to read.

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The thing with all these homestones is, they hinder the game, (settlements size,how to take over,mining plots etc)

i think there should be a new aproach

Wallblock

The wallblock, has increased resistence, and also determins the radius for arrest tps(should be placed to determine the radius not to actually build the whole wall)

Gate

The Gate is craftable or has to be placed like the forge

It is controlled with the GateBeam a beam rightclicking places it /another removes it

(so only people who are allowed in the settlement get in the easy way(siedges,tnt,grapplinghook,step iron, trojan horse etc)

Big sign

It is a simple but much larger sign (cityname,waysign etc)

made out of stone would be nice

Headstone/Homestone

(I like Headstone more)

The placer gets the title mayor/administrate/king/etc depending on the metals/gems used

All the Wall/Prison blocks link to this

(Its basicly the thing with the settings gui)

Prison/stone

The Prison stone depending on the used metals/gems determins the radius of the tp zone

City book

(I couldnt find the correct translation,maybe you guys now it(in rl all administration is documented in it (who is on the nightwatch,legislation,important contracts,lists of all registers etc)

normal book placed on a book stand would create the city book(would look like the enchantment table eg)

in it,all guard(enabling prisoner tp),building plots(just for documentation),citizens register,mining plots,laws

since books should get useable,one could go to the city/kingdom archive to get a copy of mining plots, register them etc,!laws!

also there could be a "inscripton of law" block rightclick it to open the list of laws -> would look nicer if somebody transcribed them to big stone signs

this would also link to the Headstone

this way, the guard could look up players and plots etc

PRO: enables RP without to much structure, does not hinder the game, no rules are set in stone

CON: guards are actually necassary, you will never be sure if somebody stabs you in the back (literally or figurativly)/cons you

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As much as i don't like all the talk about the security (Shouldn't there be a working system for a "peaceful" town first, before you put all the other stuff

Well if like in my Post..the Town area would be set at all time, you wouldnt need the wall to set up a new arrest zone.

Also,about teleporting to jail, I would really much like to NOT have servercommands in the game and instead make them gameplay mechanics because it is just so.....unreal.

This mod is about believability right?! well first of all : kick out any servercommands.

To get someone into jail: Why not make a HANDCUFF item and if the Sheriff clicks someone with it the person cannot move on its own and follows the sheriff whereever he goes, and therefore could be dragged into Prison like IRL :)

Laws should be shown on the HOMESTONE btw. like many others including bioxx himself have stated already. That's the best.*

They could of course be enforced by having some sort of npc watchmen. They don't DO anything, but they scan an area around them for Trespassers, griefers, Thiefs and so on.

Mainly Trespassers are an issue i think. ( Because the CITIZENS of the town should not be stealing from each other normally. One could also have his own guard person of course )

Gate

The Gate is craftable or has to be placed like the forge

It is controlled with the GateBeam a beam rightclicking places it /another removes it

(so only people who are allowed in the settlement get in the easy way(siedges,tnt,grapplinghook,step iron, trojan horse etc)

I think the Gate should also be with a Guardnpc which checks the Villages list for your name before he opens the gate.

A "Friend of the village" status could be added to allow other people who don't live in the village in.

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As much as i don't like all the talk about the security (Shouldn't there be a working system for a "peaceful" town first, before you put all the other stuff

Well if like in my Post..the Town area would be set at all time, you wouldnt need the wall to set up a new arrest zone.

Also, I would really much like to NOT have servercommands in the game and instead make them gameplay mechanics because it is just so.....unreal.

This mod is about believability right?! well first of all : kick out any servercommands.

To get someone into jail: Why not make a HANDCUFF item and if the Sheriff clicks someone with it the person cannot move on its own and follows the sheriff whereever he goes, and therefore could be dragged into Prison like IRL :)

Laws should be shown on the HOMESTONE btw. like many others including bioxx himself have stated already. That's the best.*

They could of course be enforced by having some sort of npc watchmen. They don't DO anything, but they scan an area around them for Trespassers, griefers, Thiefs and so on.

Mainly Trespassers are an issue i think.

I think the Gate should also be with a Guardnpc which checks the Villages list for your name before he opens the gate.

A "Friend of the village" status could be added to allow other people who don't live in the village in.

dude we all have been there, handcuffs would be good but too much work to code

with tp i mean the nightstick accepted by the defs that tps you to a set location

i said its my aproach, and the word homestone sound silly to me, as well as the idea to have a settlement´s radius defined by the people that have signed up,

a little equation for you, if dunkleosteus needs 1 week for a stupid (no offense dude) deer, how much work do you think a "smart" acting npc guard would take ? not even the guard in ass´ creed or witcher 2 had the brains to be not outsmarted (some even without bugs)

if you wanted a peacefull aspect you would not need a defined settlement :P, you dont need contracts and laws if the settlement is small and everybody has an oversight, but with 30+ (with less players, ther e would be no need for a kingdoms)

and btw, my approach gives the tools to the players to be peace full agressive as they like, no boundaries set by the game

the gate is the only "aggressive" thing in my proposal :P

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Oh didn't know that thread sorry..

That's why i meant the guards shouldn't be smart at all ;) they should just be omniscient :D

If someone trespasses they will realize right away and will send a message to all players in the town: Warning Trespasser!!

or sth similar.

of course they could as well attack people. but that's not REALLY necessary..

HAHA i totally agree with the word HOMESTONE sounding ....well not so great :D

I just used it because it seemed to be the general term used here :D

AND:

Yes i totally know what you mean about the peacefulness not needing towns.

I just think that this thread has been full of minor details about "how can i make my chest save?!" and "how can i steal your stuff!?" and other small issues that are not REALLY of importance for this to work. Shouldn't there first be a bigger picture?!

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but what can be done for the bigger picture ?

you either force something on the players, or you leave so many possibilites,that a settlement under 30p is not [worth] managing/able

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Imho, a prerequisite to any society or economic implementations to the mod would be adding protections to chests, forges, sluices, bloomeries, etc. Someone else mentioned the mail system from forestry. SirSengir has done a great job with the protection on the machines within forestry as well, and would serve as a good model. Basically, anything with an inventory is owned by whomever placed it in the world, that person can toggle if it's public access, private use but the items in it are visible to all, or completely private. It should go with out saying, but only the owner can pick up or destroy the machines as well. (Again, ofcourse OPs would supersede that rule)

I really think the core of TFCraft should be focused ON SMP. I really don't like minecraft SSP, because of how empty it is. There is nothing to do once you get your 30 some odd diamonds, and go blow up the ender dragon. Really, Multiplayer is what this is geared towards, building more of a communal approach with people of different talents helping each other out.

Also, i think on the point of protecting things, it should be completely open, so if someone steals and gets caught, a justice system has to be implemented.

True, it isn't realistic, but neither is the threat of being able to log out of the game to avoid being in jail. Log back in a week or 2 once your sentence is up.

In reality, morality and a real threat of punishment play a part in every sane person's conscience decisions. On a server, you don't really have to fear any punishment, you can always move to a different server. Morality will still play some factor to people that have built a relationship with others on the server, but to many they are hiding behind their game name and persona, what other people within the gamethink of them makes little difference.

While the snitch block seems nice, great I know who stole everything out of my chests, now I have to hope he logs in again, then I need to hunt him down, and kill him in order to get him put in game jail.

In game penalties are never going to be a strong enough deterrent for a real society to form on a server of people that don't know each other personally. The only hopes of having a civil server is by running with a small whitelist, running it private with only RL friends or by allowing some absolute protection.

Protected plots of land would be a good option as well. You could purchase the plot from the admin/mayor/steward who ever would be in charge or the current owner of the land.

Protecting the plot itself, would protect orchards, and farm fields from theft as well. Having enough land for the orchard or farm would cost more then just having enough land for a house. Again, having the option to open the rights to other people would be nice, someone that owns a farm, could sell mineral rights to someone else that enjoys the mining end of the game, but they would still own the land.

Chests .... Yes chests. Rework some of the coding so that when you die or logout a "<player's name> Chest" appears where the event occurred. It would be a special chest that cann't have items placed in it only taken out. It would be large enough for the player's entire inventory and would despawn once it's empty. This would prevent item despawning if you died and DCed or if a griefer stole your stuff and never logged on again. In addition to this make a new block that would tell you the location of a named player or last recorded location. This "Bounty Hunter" block would be expensive; however, a city or kingdom would all pitch in to make one as part of law-enforcement. So picture this, a person breaks into your house (snitch block records name,) steals your stuff (even what you had in your inventory,) runs away, gets bored (logs off) or let's his guard down (thinks he got away with it,) you hop on and find things stolen, you pursue justice yourself or alert the players you are paying to enforce the laws, they investigate (check the snitch block's log,) find the suspect's name, locate the crimial (check the bounty hunter block,) reclaim your items and jail the criminial.

The way it appears to me is that overpowered locks of any kind are just that, overpowered. The problem is that in real life, there are enough people and enough infrastructure to deter robbery by way of destroying the bank, the vault, just to get at a particular safe deposit box. However this does not exist in tfc. This needs to change. I like the idea of a jail. That ties in with the death penalty idea, that killing yourself to escape is not a viable option. That would be an incentive to stay in jail. However, this doesn't solve the problem of the proposed owning-land system of making it impossible to steal. People aren't altruistic and there isn't reason to force them to be.

I propose a system similar to blood feuds common in Earth's history wherever law enforcement was weak. The system is that when anyone offends someone else, their tribe/family/faction declares war (essentially) on the offenders tribe/family/faction. While this doesn't protect against individual greifers, it leads into my next suggestion: weapons of war.

I mentioned this a few times in the past, but I think we should have catapults and battering rams and siege towers and...

You get my point. Minecraft had been sorely lacking, IMHO, good team based combat mechanics. If your whole faction where working together to siege someone else's faction, that's both more rewarding and more fun than sneaking into someone else's bases and looting everything while they're DCed.

TL;DR

Overpowered locks are overpowered

I suggest factions get unread prominence to produce a "blood feud" style of justice

Seige weapons

EDIT: no fair, eternal got 800 more posts while I was busy over the summer :(

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yey an eye for an eye how civilized

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Also,about teleporting to jail, I would really much like to NOT have servercommands in the game and instead make them gameplay mechanics because it is just so.....unreal.

This mod is about believability right?! well first of all : kick out any servercommands.

dude we all have been there, handcuffs would be good but too much work to code

with tp i mean the nightstick accepted by the defs that tps you to a set location

Back up a little here Gismo we never had a final statement from Dunk on whats happening, incapacitation and dragging are still very much in the mix in fact they appear to be winning the poll.
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Back up a little here Gismo we never had a final statement from Dunk on whats happening, incapacitation and dragging are still very much in the mix in fact they appear to be winning the poll.

but wasnt there the kinda "if we have time, maybe we will do that, but we have other priorities" answer ?

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I don't think so if you had a quote I could understand but i can't find anything. I just see him saying the decision is made and then not telling us what the decision was

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that was what i meant the qoute thingy was my way to show its my interpretation of the last state

sorry if i confused you

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please read this whole thing before posting or use the search thing.

we really need to end this thread and seperate it into smaller parts so that we are not hearing the same suggestions every time I check this thing.

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please read this whole thing before posting or use the search thing.

Bears repeating.

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I think this nonsense about jails and arrests and economies and politics, and all that other garbage would be simply solved by the widely demanded dancing bears feature. Give a bear some meat, calm him down, lure him back to your home, keep feeding him meat, soon he will be your best friend. Before you know it, BOOM, dancing fuckin' bears.

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I have successfully read the entire freaking topic... And as a result it is now 1:30 AM which is rather late for me so I fear if I attempt to make any sort of extended point I will end out spouting rubberish and making a poof of myself.

All I will say tonight... Tomarraow... This morning, whatever! Is that I agree with the civcraft folks and Cevkiv. Ockhams razor cuts most of your arguments to shreds. (1000 internetz to the person who gets that reference). If we give the tools to the player instead of a enforced system, politics and ecomy will rise up on their own!

So yeh, my brain is sushi right now...

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Ockhams razor cuts most of your arguments to shreds. (1000 internetz to the person who gets that reference).

Nice reference :P I also agree with the sentiment of your post. I proposed a very complicated system, but realized that a tool set would actually suit me better, as well as everyone else :)

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yey an eye for an eye how civilized

It's worth pointing out that hammurabi's code was one of the most successful systems of justice.

Also it's one of the simplest.

I have to disagree with jed here, i think a tool set would feel arbitrary and forced. What i like best about minecraft (extended to tfc) is that you are free to build a settlement however you want, to govern however you see fit, not to follow rules dreamed up by someone else. Not that your system doesn't appeal to me, it's just that the freedom to change a system of government/economy at will appeals to me more.

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but you have to have some infrastructure (given by the mod) otherwise servers with <30 players will have administriv problems/ as well as crime etc

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True true. I actually have had the experience of a legitimate government with 10 people, but with fewer than that I agree (had a communist settlement and a corrupt leader stole all the resources and built a mansion. We sacked it and ran away :P)

But even still there is a complex balance of having resources at your control to help govern and being forced to fit a mold.

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True true. I actually have had the experience of a legitimate government with 10 people, but with fewer than that I agree (had a communist settlement and a corrupt leader stole all the resources and built a mansion. We sacked it and ran away :P)

But even still there is a complex balance of having resources at your control to help govern and being forced to fit a mold.

But with a set of tools you won't be forced to fit a mould of particular restrictiveness necessarily. I am talking about very non specific tools which allow the users to enforce their preferred styles of government. Look at civcraft. They have given the users just enough tools to make their rules enforceable without restricting the players experience :)

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But with a set of tools you won't be forced to fit a mould of particular restrictiveness necessarily. I am talking about very non specific tools which allow the users to enforce their preferred styles of government. Look at civcraft. They have given the users just enough tools to make their rules enforceable without restricting the players experience :)

perfect. I'm glad my feedback was appreciated. (this is not sarcasm)

Id like to avoid something like the faction plugin which is extremely limiting in my opinion

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