Content: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Background: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to TerraFirmaCraft Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

  • Announcements

    • Dries007

      ATTENTION Forum Database Breach   03/04/2019

      There has been a breach of our database. Please make sure you change your password (use a password manager, like Lastpass).
      If you used this password anywhere else, change that too! The passwords themselves are stored hashed, but may old accounts still had old, insecure (by today's standards) hashes from back when they where created. This means they can be "cracked" more easily. Other leaked information includes: email, IP, account name.
      I'm trying my best to find out more and keep everyone up to date. Discord (http://invite.gg/TerraFirmaCraft) is the best option for up to date news and questions. I'm sorry for this, but the damage has been done. All I can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again.
    • Claycorp

      This forum is now READ ONLY!   01/20/2020

      As of this post and forever into the future this forum has been put into READ ONLY MODE. There will be no new posts! A replacement is coming SoonTM . If you wish to stay up-to-date on whats going on or post your content. Please use the Discord or Sub-Reddit until the new forums are running.

      Any questions or comments can be directed to Claycorp on either platform.
Bioxx

Kingdoms Brainstorming

899 posts in this topic

Najual seems to grasp this point: If players are not there it doesn't matter how long it takes to destroy a block. Anything short of full protection simply will not work. The concept of players defending their junk themselves is fine but you need to account for the fact that players won't always be on. Nor can you expect them to always be on. This is a game and not a job. Your free time should be open to whatever you want to do with it and not maintaining guard duty over virtual blocks. And for those of you going on the silly realism angle, it isn't realistic to play in a world where people flat out don't exist 90% of the time.

At the very least there would need to be some protections that go up when the owner isn't on. Realism be damned, players are simply too powerful for any possible defense/trap/vault to work.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Najual seems to grasp this point: If players are not there it doesn't matter how long it takes to destroy a block. Anything short of full protection simply will not work. The concept of players defending their junk themselves is fine but you need to account for the fact that players won't always be on. Nor can you expect them to always be on. This is a game and not a job. Your free time should be open to whatever you want to do with it and not maintaining guard duty over virtual blocks. And for those of you going on the silly realism angle, it isn't realistic to play in a world where people flat out don't exist 90% of the time.

At the very least there would need to be some protections that go up when the owner isn't on. Realism be damned, players are simply too powerful for any possible defense/trap/vault to work.

On the flip side there's no reason for conflict if your foe has an invulnerable city, it just wouldn't happen, and i think that is something bioxx wants to happen.

We need some way to reinforce an area that can still be taken down from the outside, I think what we'll really need in the end is some kind of npc defenders to man the walls so you can't just sit with a pick for 4 hours if that's how long it took.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

or like has been discussed before the homestone(whatever name you use) fully protects the block in a town when all the players log off after a set time

the reinforced blocks will not make the town invulnerable but will make it take more than ten minutes to destroy and entire town. this is neither realistic nor believable

1 one person simply does not have the energy to take a pick to all the stone

2 in a real town there are people who will step outside and kill you

like was said above in real life people actually exist 24/7

3 there are guards payed to stop this sort of thing

destroying a city makes noise minecraft does not/at least not enough

4 npc's have been pretty much denied for servers

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Najual seems to grasp this point: If players are not there it doesn't matter how long it takes to destroy a block. Anything short of full protection simply will not work. The concept of players defending their junk themselves is fine but you need to account for the fact that players won't always be on. Nor can you expect them to always be on. This is a game and not a job. Your free time should be open to whatever you want to do with it and not maintaining guard duty over virtual blocks. And for those of you going on the silly realism angle, it isn't realistic to play in a world where people flat out don't exist 90% of the time.

At the very least there would need to be some protections that go up when the owner isn't on. Realism be damned, players are simply too powerful for any possible defense/trap/vault to work.

I agree, we can't all be on all the time. If npc guards or area/block invulnerability are out, the only other obvious solution is safety in numbers. A community with players on at different times, on a server with a lot of players, would be more likely to have at least one player around to defend it. But even then, that one player would have to be very vigilant and pretty good at tracking down and killing other players. One persistent shithead might be a problem. But what about a mob of pwnz0r kiddies or a determined assault from a rival faction that decides to crash their gates at 4am local? If they cared at all about defense they wouldn't be able to do much of anything else like haul a load of goods to another city, or go out exploring and mining, or log off/afk for any reason. Then it becomes a job, one that could cause all kinds of rl problems.

It wouldn't matter how high or hard those walls are if you can simply place dirt towers or wooden ladders on both sides and climb over. Neither would archers and patrolling guards if you can tunnel under it or build an enclosed sky bridge with blocks that don't fall. Full area protection from clouds to bedrock is the only thing I've seen work on Factions and many other PvP servers, and TFC doesn't even support that at this point..

Either realism be damned, or... anything unguarded is simply fair game. I know that's a terrible thought. Read it again. I rambled at length about it earlier. You guys have to stop thinking about guaranteed safety and more about constant threat to your builds, chests, and whatever you're carrying. You could lose it all at any time. Tough titties, deal with it. Regroup, rebuild, retaliate. Deal with it... as a faction, a city, an alliance, or even one player with a Home Stone.

The concept of the Home Stone is perhaps one of the most intangible of Gorean beliefs. On one hand, we can compare the Stone to our Earth symbolism of flags, banners, armories. The warrior, for example, pledges his sword to it, citizens of a same city refer to each other as 'sharing a Home Stone'. Clearly, it symbolizes the heart of a city, a village, a home; the banner under which its citizens will rally.

...there's no reason for conflict if your foe has an invulnerable city, it just wouldn't happen, and i think that is something bioxx wants to happen.

Yes. Also,

Posted Image

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I swear to the Gods, there is no hope for the human race.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I swear to the Gods, there is no hope for the human race.

You've just learned this?

You poor naive soul

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You've just learned this?

You poor naive soul

I have known it for some time. However, it's one of those things that, just when you think you've come to a full appreciation of it, suddenly it hits you all over again.

Like someone being dead.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I have known it for some time. However, it's one of those things that, just when you think you've come to a full appreciation of it, suddenly it hits you all over again.

Like someone being dead.

how apropos...

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I swear to the Gods, there is no hope for the human race.

Well if it's any comfort, we don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, so we're better off just being happy and doing what we can as a individual.

But I'm curious, what made you say this?

BTW najual, brilliant post as usual. I quite agree!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Well if it's any comfort, we don't really matter in the grand scheme of things, so we're better off just being happy and doing what we can as a individual.

But I'm curious, what made you say this?

BTW najual, brilliant post as usual. I quite agree!

People like Najual.

The idea that the "only" way to avoid griefing is for someone to basically have "town guard" as their job is insane. Valid schemes of block protection exist that do not compromise the PvP aspect of the game while making it next to impossible for casual griefing to take place. People who pretend they don't exist are just stuffing their fingers in their ears and going, "LA LA LA LA LA LA LA" as loud as they can because they don't WANT block protection at all, because it makes it harder for them to get their jollies by destroying what other people worked so hard to make. That's really the only reason to be opposed to block protection: you're griefing scum.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

People who only believe in total protection should try Civcraft.

My friend logged on, started tearing up a road, and was imprisoned a minute later.

He wasn't even able to make a dent in the road.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hahaha your kidding right cevkiv? you dont really think people don't want block protection so they can steal things haha that post was truly ignorant and I mean truthfully. I can't decide on this one so I'm not even close to that one-sided. People like the believability its the reason we all play this mod. This indestructability isn't believable at all and that definitely takes away from the game however some form of inactive protection is necesary and nobody seems to have any better ideas so.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What if block protection was added but it was optional.

Because there are actual anarchy servers out there, and servers that try to incorporate controlled griefing into the server's gameplay.

@bsb steal and destroy is what he meant I believe

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...This indestructability isn't believable at all and that definitely takes away from the game however some form of inactive protection is necesary and nobody seems to have any better ideas so.

I mentioned block protection already in TFC that would prevent random shithead griefing to some degree, in the form of simplified tool requirements to break different block types. No stone picks for newbies is an excellent step in that direction. Iron or steel requirements for more block types would be another. The basic physics of TFC should suffice to impose some limitations, but not invulnerability. Any additional area and block protection code is pointless.

Waaaay back on page 17 or so:

...if block protection is strong enough to prevent griefing, then it inherently prevents war (since war is effectively organised griefing against one another). If it is not good enough to stop griefing, then it is not worth having block protection at all.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

In older days walls would be extended down till they reached rock. This feature made it difficult for invaders to tunnel in quickly. Since we have no stone pickaxes anymore and stone can only be broken with a pickaxe. We have block protection against random griefers. I suggest we use it by not building on spawn and putting a wall around our buildings. (I'm referring to a good wall that reaches down to rock) It would be nice to have a block that prevents hostile mobs from spawning. I wouldn't mind placing several around my cities to avoid the disgusting look of over-torching.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Okay Najual I totally understand that and get where you are coming from here, however don't ignore the other side too much either. As of right now we have no protection and I agree total block protection would suck but we do need some form of protection. As an example, greifer walks into village at 3 o'clock in the morning nobody is on he breaks all the wood in town which is usually a lot and then leaves never to be seen again. Either we live with this or get some kind of protection, AFK block protection would be easiest as of right now and then the next best idea is NPCs if something better could be thought of then we wouldn't have to.

The quote is invalid, sorry you look back several more pages and i was the first to make that point and the reason I decided on AFK protection at first so wars could still be waged.

This is our big problem war is basically just organized greifing we can't change one without changing the other thats why the police system will be so important

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"In older days walls would be extended down till they reached rock. This feature made it difficult for invaders to tunnel in quickly."

There was actually a type of tunneling that aimed to weaken the walls and make them collapse while not actually tunneling through the wall itself if I remember correctly.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

"In older days walls would be extended down till they reached rock. This feature made it difficult for invaders to tunnel in quickly."

There was actually a type of tunneling that aimed to weaken the walls and make them collapse while not actually tunneling through the wall itself if I remember correctly.

You are quite correct. We have a mechanic in place that does that too if you use rock instead of either brick or smooth stone.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I mentioned block protection already in TFC that would prevent random shithead griefing to some degree, in the form of simplified tool requirements to break different block types. No stone picks for newbies is an excellent step in that direction. Iron or steel requirements for more block types would be another. The basic physics of TFC should suffice to impose some limitations, but not invulnerability. Any additional area and block protection code is pointless.

Waaaay back on page 17 or so:

I am quite positive now that you have not read this thread, and are cherry-picking things from it.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This thread is far too long to read it all but i did glaze over it. Hopefully I'm not repeating anything but here are my ideas:

I think land should be the key motivator here. Civilizations form over the need to be near a river, cave, mine, certain agriculture zone, etc. Players should be able to identify this zone and flock to it, thus forming a community or at least a closely located group of people.

This land can be improved by doing several things. Maybe transporting in special dirt for the farm to work perfectly in that agriculture zone. Maybe bring in better trees that grow faster. Certain stone that looks better. Or we could go more advanced: Maybe the river needs to be a certain depth to spawn fish. Deer like certain trees so we could populate our forest with natural huting animals :)

Once a civilization has started it becomes more and more appealing for other to settle here because a LOT of hard work has been done to make this place the best in several areas. That said, this should not be easy. An entire field of dirt laid down for farms, a river drudged out, trees grown to a good enough size to breed the right animals, etc.. This would take a community to build.

As for PVP, imagine the wars, griefing, etc. When you conquer a town you could scorch the earth, burn down the forest, kill all the wild animals, TNT the lake/river beds, etc... The only thing i don't like is that these actions could be done when no one is around. I think every town should be afforded a type of protection to combat this 1 problem. Say if no one in the town is online, the town is closed off and inaccessable. As for precious stones. I would like to see griefing possible but not stealing (nothing should drop). If you are just a fly-by-night griefer. the game mechanics already make it hard enough to grief. You can't even get tools to break through a wall without a lot of time put in to find the ore and craft etc.

As for the home stone, I like the idea. I would like the home stone to be the function of the mayor (and no single person). Maybe the home stone would allow you to vote for a town member to hold the office of mayor for a week period or something like that. And if that is dooable, expand this into sheriff, judge, or other key members of town. They would have special abilities, such as closing the town gates, jailing a citizen or imposing a fine (which could then be taken to court, etc)

This brings me to my next point, what form of government would the home stone have? Maybe we could pick and choose or even vote at the home stone. Say we went to overthrow or go into anarchy.. Here's some examples:

Republic: Has a Mayor, Sheriff, Judge, etc

Monarchy: Royal Family, Hold seat for a certain length of time and designate their heirs.

Oligarchy: Power passes to the one with the most money :) They can designate their officials.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This brings me to my next point, what form of government would the home stone have? Maybe we could pick and choose or even vote at the home stone. Say we went to overthrow or go into anarchy.. Here's some examples:

Republic: Has a Mayor, Sheriff, Judge, etc

Monarchy: Royal Family, Hold seat for a certain length of time and designate their heirs.

Oligarchy: Power passes to the one with the most money :) They can designate their officials.

pretty much everything else you have said sums up my opinion, but I don't think we should force a single political system of any kind onto this idea, we should give people the powers they need to act and organize however they wish. For the most part, with sufficient resources we'll likely see villages with a pretty communistic approach early on, but as resources become more stretched out they'll need to adapt, this fluidity is important in simulating the growth of nations(if that's the goal at least).

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Against set governments or even government models we have to follow. The homestone should just claim land for a single person and then he could share his land with other leaders, he could keep it for themselves or give it to another person. He could sell the land to people for whatever price he chose or simply rent it. If so desired a deed could be written and to prove it to be authentic a signature tool tip would be necessary for paper/books. Options, options, options, options that is what we want.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Options, options, options, options that is what we want.

Literally, as long as all the kingdom stuff is configurable, then everyone wins. I said this like 30 pages ago: Servers that don't want protections can turn them off, servers that want community and protection can turn them on. Various middle grounds can also be set. Literally everyone wins.

2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Literally, as long as all the kingdom stuff is configurable, then everyone wins. I said this like 30 pages ago: Servers that don't want protections can turn them off, servers that want community and protection can turn them on. Various middle grounds can also be set. Literally everyone wins.

And you have no idea the complexity involved in the coding of any of that.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

And you have no idea the complexity involved in the coding of any of that.

You're right, I don't; I don't code at all except for a brief year on RPG maker's very basic concept of code.

However, if Bioxx wants to stay true to his own statement of wanting to provide a new or varied experience with each different play through, the ability to configure the kingdom options is the only real way to provide the means of different servers acting differently short of third party plugins coming onto the scene. Which don't get me wrong, once this mod stabilizes I'm looking forward to the influx of third party mods for specifically Terrafirmacraft, I know Slink has already put out several good ones.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites