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Bioxx

Kingdoms Brainstorming

899 posts in this topic

Another (and possibly easier to code) idea on the whole anti-robing thing might be some kind of mechanism for the game to keep track of what is crafted by who, and when that person goes offline, their chests/anvils etc. go "offline" with them, however this system may be more abuse-able as someone could place blocks where someones stuff used to be.

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...

...

...

Triple post? ...?

You get -10 for not seeing the edit button. :blink:

P.S. Bioxx already has a currency system he's working on. It just isn't complete yet. (terrasprites2.png)

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all already said

I am making a compilation of the posts about block protections and economy posts that tie into block protection

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Have we talked about flags? Maybe not. So, what if flags denote a certain are, say a 25x25 area, as a Faction's. if the faction wants more land, it has to have more flags. Anyone can destroy a flag, but only people of that faction can place a faction's flag. When someone breaks a faction's flag, everything in that area goes up for grabs. So... Flags protect players things, but when broken make their stuff free for all. To balance it, You could put your flag on a high point or out of reach of the ground.

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@ sasquatch, That sounds good. But being able to place butt tons of flags everywhere sounds a tad OP. I mean, even if they can be broken, what is to stop people from making giant stone pillars with flags ontop everywhere? That would stop anyone from ever getting that land.

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@ sasquatch, That sounds good. But being able to place butt tons of flags everywhere sounds a tad OP. I mean, even if they can be broken, what is to stop people from making giant stone pillars with flags ontop everywhere? That would stop anyone from ever getting that land.

Well, it's not like his suggrestion can't be improved on. You could make it so flags need a special crafting method and when flags aren't t regularly visited, it'll break? I'm not sure about people not in the faction being unable to build anything near the flag.

I myself believe restrictions should be handled by the players themselves and not by objects. If they claim land, it's their own responsibility to enforce rules.

So I guess to me, flags are more like some sort of indication that a faction/nation has claimed said area as their own and should not give any special abilities other than maybe messaging the approaching players which faction/nation they're entering and giving possible block protection that the homestone would also provide. Hm, maybe when a flag is broken, it'll send a message to one or more members of the nation who attacked.

Another possibility to combat stone pillared flags is that the flag needs repairing/replacing after a set amount of time. It's not like flags don't need any maintenance at all.....right?

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... Who said the flags would be cheap?

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This may be totally wrong for this mod but this is a brainstorming thread so I think I am allowed.

I recently posted in the minecraft forum a mod suggestion for a mod that implements warfare in a useful way. here is the thread if you want to read the details I have in mind. Forgive me for not reading all 40 pages of this kingdoms thread first, but I at least get the impression there is a lot of similar stuff being discussed here. My idea was to make a warfare mod that is compatible with the largest possible number of other mods, and could be used to supplement any of them. TFC is of course the prefect example of a mod where this kind of gameplay would be great. I realise that if the Bioxx makes his own version of this as part of this mod it will be inventive and enjoyable just like his other work, and I would be very happy about it, but I am almost certain it would not be compatible with any other mods.

This seems like an opportunity to me, firstly to enrich the modding community in general, and secondly to reduce the workload on Bioxx so he can continue with all the other amazing things he has planned. Basically I am suggesting seperating parts of the kingdoms mod from tfc but keeping them compatible. I can program myself and am happy to help with this.

I am just asking for feedback here so if I am totally off base please let me know gently :-). I am also aware there are probably parts of kingdoms that will simply never be compatible with other mods and the division of the two might not be smooth or easy.

While I am on the subject, there is also the factions mod, which although is rather ineffective in my experience it is widely used and has at least some functionality in common with some of the goals here. Rather than reinvent the wheel it may be interesting to approach the creators and see if they would be amenable to sharing some of their code.

Edit:

On an unrelated note, I also had an idea for block semi protection and reinforcing that compliments what has been said earlier: Reinforcing blocks could be made relatively easy, but also be directional, ie 1-5 sides of the block now take much longer to break but the remaining side(s) is normal. This means that people can have a reinforced wall around a settlement that takes ages to break through, without it taking ages for the owners of the town to dismantle it if they want to move or modify it. Simply make the reinforced faces face outward. A decent wall reinforcement mechanic also enables block protection like the suggested hearthstones to cover only building and not breaking. This would mean you can simply pile up dirt next to a wall to get over it, and breaking through would take a long time.

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I really feel the need to add my two cents for some reason so here we go guys.

I don't know if these have been posted already or not and I'm feeling way too heated at the

thought of hard coded protections to read through forty pages. If someone already posted

these, please just take is as my vote in their direction.

I think that all you would need for functioning cities is a map, a book, and a lot of time.

In my brain, town/city/kingdom founder hopefuls would first have to make a place-able chart to map out the prospective town. The founder(s) of the settlement would sign the chart and name the city to finalize it. After the town has been named any player could look at the chart but it would only be accessible to the ones who signed. Having ones signature on the chart would give them access to the management powers granted to the government. Land would be designated to players or the government through the chart. The hub of the city would also be designated through the chart and would determine where the protections afforded by that city would extend to. The protections should not extend beyond the borders of the chart to give a little incentive for proper city placement. A budding town should be limited in the amount of land it has to designate and should be afforded more as it's strength increases up to the borders of the chart. A limited city size would encourage players to seek out a new city, or found their own, once space becomes an issue in their hometown. Infinitely expandable towns are not only unrealistic, they almost insure a small amount of cities per server. Attaining the title of city, barony, etc should be difficult and a ruler would have to make the benefits of living in his or her city outweigh the benefits of starting another.

The strength of a town would be based on it's wealth. As town grows more wealthy it would change from settlement to town or town to city or barony or what have you. To keep track of the towns finances there would be a place-able book, or ledger, that would record the wealth amounted by the city, the taxes (if any) on citizens, and the bounty on criminals. The ledger could only be written in by a founder, but any citizen could read it. The ledger, being tied to the wealth of the government, would have to be housed near a repository for the government's wealth and possibly affect a certain area around it ( a 10 x 10 area around the ledger would be considered a treasury for example). This would encourage the construction of a bank of sorts. The wealth of the city would have to be manually kept track of by a founder and errors made by that founder could either delay a town becoming a city if the numbers were too low or downgrade a town to a settlement if the numbers were discovered to be too high. Downgraded towns,cities, etc would loose designate-able area and the protections afforded to the farther reaching buildings would recede accordingly. Judging a cities size based on wealth is a method that more accurately represents a community's want of a better home than place-able flags that can be set up in minutes.

Law would be limited to a bounty system to prevent changes that would degrade pvp. Bounties would be tracked on a city to city basis to prevent war from causing any issues. The bounty on a players head would depend on the affected player or institution and the crimes players can commit would be separated into automatically tracked and player submitted. Automatically tracked crimes would be added to the ledger if they occurred within the limits of the city and the bounty placed would be determined by a founder in the ledger. Automatically tracked crimes would be limited to breaking blocks on plots of land owned by others or tax evasion. This would tie in nicely with the forged locks that were suggested earlier, as a would-be-thief must break something in a home if they are to succeed. Automatically placed bounties would be paid out of the city's treasury. The strength of the town will affect crime and punishment in this way. A larger, more established town could pay much more for these bounties than a budding settlement. Player placed bounties must be paid in advance to the city and must go through a founder to be approved and placed. This type of mechanic would allow false or exaggerated accusations to be made and encourage community through detective work. Bounties would be paid after approval by a founder at the ledger. A town that has low paying bounties or doesn't pay the bounties it has issued, will naturally have more crime than a town that pays respectably. All bounties placed in the ledger should be tracked purely by numbers to encourage advertisement by the community. If a prison mechanic is possible, after death by bounty hunter the criminal should respawn in a designated prison for a founder determined amount of time. Without adding a way for players to possess every item they own there isn't much else to be done in terms of punishment. Revoking a criminals designated land is hardly an option and death in minecraft means very little.

Founders would have the ability to spend money in the treasury as they see fit. If a founder wants to place a particularly nasty bounty out, they should be allowed. If their town is running low on food or a particular ore they could use that money to buy from another town to distribute as they see fit. While hunger may not kill you in minecraft, the lack of food will most definitely keep you from accomplishing any large task, especially in Terrafirmacraft. Finding all those ores is no picnic either.

I could go on but I've been at this for two and a half hours and it's getting old. If you find a problem or something that doesn't add up in this huge thing, and you care enough to ask, I might have forgotten to write down something. This was all in outline format on word and I couldn't just copy and paste without it looking like death. I tried to come up with a system that encourages community because I figure that's what Bioxx had in mind. The wealth tracking thing has it's roots in dwarf fortress just like this mod. I didn't get into tax or anything but to sum it up: property tax is the only thing I see doable with this system. We need to brainstorm us up a good penalty for dying too.

I can't believe I wrote all this.

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That is pretty much how I see it best working.

Only reason I have any agreement with the block protection side is how easy it is to raid when an entire town is 'offline' in the real world a town can rise to it's defense at the drop of a hat if it's really necessary, it won't be so in this world.

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Super-Long snip

Don't suggest other mods and compatibility. Big no-no on these forums. '

Snip

We have discussed this at length, and to sum it up, the problem is that this system then doesn't lean toward a variety in government. It seems to be a more communistic to fascist approach, The goal of the "Kingdoms" per say is to create an easy, in game way for players to set up government's and factions.
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Can you link me to another post explaining why? I will of course stop making such suggestions but I am interested in the rationale behind this policy.

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If I remember correctly, it was partly because bioxx is a bit more limited in everything he does by each additional mod you rely on.

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Ideas:

1) What if the kingdoms themselves were specially designated by, as some people said, a flag. And it:

a. makes items in the territory a little harder to break for non faction members, but it also makes some stuff easier to break for both sides (Obsidian and wood (unless its part of a tree)), that way griefing would be lessened. and

b. Alerts people of when they are entering the territory of the flag (more on that later). Two Flag's borders cannot overlap, and the new one will stop short.

Meanwhile, one can right click on a flag to pick it up. (The borders do not leave until the flag leaves said borders) If one logs out while holding the flag, the flag will spawn next to where they logged out. A flag also has a special pathfinding mechanism so that when the flag's placed, it'll send it's borders out to the furthest place (within its built in limit (more on that later)) that one can go from said place to te flag with nothing in the inventory and no movement hacks. This way, flags won't be placed 50 meters up and no one can claim within X feet.

When you craft a flag, it has a max reach of 1x1 chunk, and it'll take the following:

xzz

xzz

x

x = metal rod (crafted out of X metal (IDK how different metals would affect it)

z = Cloth (Put wool in a spinning wheel to make yarn. Weave yarn a lot into cloth (you can use hands (slow), a weaving board (quick) or a weaving machine (lightning fast) (The yarn's damage value = it's % until becoming cloth (I'm thinking 1 wool = 10 yarn)(50 yarn = 1 cloth)

Then, adding Redstone enchancers around it makes it become: 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5 ect.

Redstone enchancer:

zyz

yxy

zyz

Redstone Block (9 redstone ignots (take restone, smelt it into liquid restone, let it cool, and work it into an ignot)

x = y = redstone torch

z = Gold ignot

(These redstone stuff could be used for more intricate redstone mechanisms and normal machines)

(Redstone enchancers take a redstone charge, and then sends out a redstone charge in any direction)

(Redstone blocks store redstone signals for x seconds AND can be moved by pistons (If you can get them craftable again)

Also, flags must be swapped every x days so that it'll still work. That way:

Having multiple flags:

pros: Harder for enimies to take land

cons: more of a hassle

having 1 flag:

pros: Less hastle

cons: Harder to make, easier for enimies to take land.

(Although with competent gaurds, HMF's pro and H1F's 2nd con doesn't apply)

p.s. Yes, I know the redstone stuff sounds like redpower, but I don't think it's believable a flag doesn't do this stuff without a power source. Plus, it makes the recipe harder. Maybe redstone could even be a little more common in certain places (not all) to balance the, "lots of redstone to make flags better." Thing.)

EDIT:

I can't really find a good TFC server with some land that's a) not 1000000+ metres from spawn while still having: b.) some nonpicked over places. Really, it feels like the game is "Grief for Your Life." And thus I end up playing mainly single player. So I'd love something like this:

Why not have "Spawn Chunks" (groups of x by x chunks where one respawns at a random (available) space within it to prevent spawn killing and to make it more exciting. Maybe 100 player group has their own designated Spawn Chunk at different parts of the map (maybe x to y chunks away) so that not everyone is placed in one small group. It's like, to find more communities you must to actually travel.

Also, having a server option to disable the use of xyz coords in f3 would help too.

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^ On yours, A. Believability: your not gonna smelt a dust into a liquid, easily, and redstone is out of the realm of, "Is it a metal or a stone" it maintains electrical properties, but it's logic system functions of of Boolean algebra.

B. Bioxx said in another thread, no NPC's

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1) Hmm, I always thought of redstone as crushed metal powder. Also, the redstone bit was a side idea placeholder. Number 1 was all about improving on the flag idea that came up on the last page.

2) I heard that, but at the front page it said no NPCs unless we get a good idea suggested. I: 1. thought it was a pretty good idea beta 4 maybe? (other guy: Not unless bioxx dies and/or gets replaced (assasin comes: You wanted me 1SDAN?(me: wha no. Why would I hire an assasin?))) But all joking aside, I don't care either way. I'm just playing TFC for a cuple months or so till I can make a super realistic ultra epic super in depth mod that will help act as phase 1 in making a java game: Escape PlannTM

Edit: I forget wat reason 2 was lol

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^ On yours, A. Believability: your not gonna smelt a dust into a liquid, easily

I regularly melt down powdered saltpeter and confectioner's sugar

It's actually quite easy

In fact, increased surface area means that powdered substance is easier to melt than a solid piece of it

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I cant follow this topic due to its shear size. Shouldn't a subforum be made dedicated to this?

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^ On yours, A. Believability: your not gonna smelt a dust into a liquid, easily, and redstone is out of the realm of, "Is it a metal or a stone" it maintains electrical properties, but it's logic system functions of of Boolean algebra.

Cinnabar (which is what most people use to find "red stone") is often ground into a power. It makes a red powder that acts as a wonderful dye or great ingredient for lacquer-ware. Alchemists also found it easy to melt the powder down into mercury which is a liquid metal unless it is colder than -38.83 C. Mercury also is a fairly good conductor of electricity. Is cinnabar (red stone) believable, no, is it real despite how much of an odd-ball it is, yes. Take that believability, reality just kicked your arse.

P.S. As a blacksmith I find it easier to melt powders than bars. Powders seems to absorb more heat or at least absorb the same heat faster.

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I think the most important thing is that the system seems natural. If there are block protections and stuff then it will start to seem weird and kind of unnatural (In games, I don't think there should be rules with no basis within the game world)

The only thing I can think of is some kind of Guard NPC (I heard that NPCs won't be added, but whatever) that can be obtained somewhere in the world, and can be "set" to a Settlement's Boundries. The person who "Leads" the Settlement would have a flag or something that would be kind of like a command block, and there they could add players to a settlement, set boundries, etc. All of this is completely useless without the guards; the guards will approach non-settlement-members who are inside the boundries and breaking blocks, attacking things, etc. That way settlement's wouldn't be unnaturally invincible for no reason and could be attacked & sacked, but there is a protecting force within the game world. Of course, the NPCs would have to have really good AIs to not be just useless Iron Golems walking around an area hitting mobs.

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-Snip-

Also, why not have "Spawn Chunks" (groups of x by x chunks where one respawns at a random (available) space within it to prevent spawn killing and to make it more exciting. Maybe 100 player group has their own designated Spawn Chunk at different parts of the map (maybe x to y chunks away) so that not everyone is placed in one small group. It's like, to find more communities you must to actually travel.

-Snip-

I like this Idea, very much. Players having different spawn locations means that it will become easier for multiple societies to develop instead of "that big one near the spawn." Also this makes it so that it is much harder for communities to find each other (especially if you disabled coordinates from f3, making it impossible to give out coordinates) because they can no longer say "go so and so many blocks north, find an ocean, sail across it, and that's where we are" because the settlements aren't necessarily in a straight line.
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So how about coins or currency? like casting coins out of metals. :)

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has been discussed AND is already half way implemented;) the coins are already items...you just cannot get them yet..

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I was thinking about the protection issue while reading this post. a solution for block protection theft/grief etc would be a "scouting" npc that you craft. The Scouters role would be to, well scout along a patrol route that you manually set up. once placed you would have to r-click the scout with markings made from ink, then place the marking on the ground starting from the scout and going to where ever you need him to scout. the scout will walk along this route at all time using a certain area detection(possible for thief to hide in shadows behind things etc). if the scout find a person where they dont belong (possible to set up properties as far a threat rates on people and on groups) they give out a warning. if thief doesn't retreat from area with-in time frame scout give then the scout summons gaurds based on the tier of scout you craft, i.e tin=1, bronze=2, steel=5, red steel=6. the gaurds could act as pigmen chasing down the person until they either leave the zone or die. adding a locking feature to chests that can be picked is also a good idea. this is realy a rough outline on this issue, but i believe this could solve the item protection issue but also doesn't limit players abilites. if someone has already mentioned this then ignore please xD

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How about a Town Obelisk (A constructed object, think Nether Portal) that, when constructed out of things like obsidian or gem blocks, would create an area around it that makes people not on the team take longer to place or break things and need to hold right click on a chest for a certain amount of time to open it. The builders of the obelisk could create groups that people would fall under, and these groups would have permissions (i.e. Workers wouldn't be able to build or break easily in the city, leaders could do whatever they wanted to, etc.).

The Obelisk could be infinitely scaled, but it gives diminishing returns on its range every time you make it bigger.

The creator of the obelisk could make it to where their obelisk becomes a potential spawn point for people who just entered the server., and would be put into an assigned group that the Obelisk Maker designates (New arrivals could automatically become "Peasants" for example.)

As for defending a city while its inhabitants are offline: Nothing too complex it needed. Have a "barracks obelisk" be added as a constructible object just like the regular obelisk, only cheaper, that would check for nearby beds and equipped weapon/armor racks to supply spawned soldiers. It would spawn a soldier NPC for each bed that would defend the city against hostiles. What is recognized as "Hostile" can be set by the person who built the nearest Town Obelisk (People breaking blocks without permission, people entering a certain area without permission, etc.). Soldier NPC's can open iron doors (They are only defensive, so the explanation is that they have all the keys), and in order to destroy the Town Obelisk, you must first destroy all of the Barracks Obelisk's.

Soldier NPC's could be recruited to follow a person of sufficient rank if they ask, making large-scale warfare possible without having a server with hundreds of people playing on it.

The balancing thing about the barracks system is that, while powerful, it still requires maintenence by a human, and the barracks can't automatically repair damage.

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