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Bioxx

Kingdoms Brainstorming

899 posts in this topic

To all of the above, no NPCs unless a new and innovated use is suggested. Just saying. (I think the above ways are very cool though)

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I'm just trying to grasp my head around all the suggestions about how you protect your home and land while still having war. The honest people of the game (citizens) need a reason to live in a town and the mayor needs a reason for wanting people in the town. taxes is a good solution for the mayors needs, but what do the people get in return? Protection, and quite frankly the mayor should be the one to provide it. sure i could buy a protected lot (how it is protected is yet to be determined). while the citizens are being protected and honestly paying taxes the outlaws are scheeming on ways to destroy, raze, and pillage. by the sounds of beta 3, that's what's going to start the wars (big group of bandits gather together make a town and start taking over and have to be stopped). a full on protection sytem would destroy the want for being a bandit thus destroy the pvp warfare.

so with that in mind i ponder on how to suggest a system that welcomes vandalizing to some extent. gives a need for currency and gives a reason to be a member of a community that i couldn't do myself.

this is more for a confirmation as to what we are all talking about. if i've missed something please fill me in. i do wish to help

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I'm just trying to grasp my head around all the suggestions about how you protect your home and land while still having war. The honest people of the game (citizens) need a reason to live in a town and the mayor needs a reason for wanting people in the town. taxes is a good solution for the mayors needs, but what do the people get in return? Protection, and quite frankly the mayor should be the one to provide it. sure i could buy a protected lot (how it is protected is yet to be determined). while the citizens are being protected and honestly paying taxes the outlaws are scheeming on ways to destroy, raze, and pillage. by the sounds of beta 3, that's what's going to start the wars (big group of bandits gather together make a town and start taking over and have to be stopped). a full on protection sytem would destroy the want for being a bandit thus destroy the pvp warfare.

so with that in mind i ponder on how to suggest a system that welcomes vandalizing to some extent. gives a need for currency and gives a reason to be a member of a community that i couldn't do myself.

this is more for a confirmation as to what we are all talking about. if i've missed something please fill me in. i do wish to help

Well, you could take my idea and add in a requirement to "pay" the soldier NPC's every time some are spawned to respond to a threat. That would further balance it by not only needing to keep their tool racks equipped with weapons and armor and also clean up the mess that the atackers made, but also needing to pay the soldier NPC's. This would encourage people to pay taxes and would encourage mayors to levy taxes and keep the barracks in good repair.

I think my system is one of the most "sandbox-y" systems. It allows the leader to set tax rates, groups in their town, permissions for those groups, and creates defenses for the towns while still leaving them vulnerable. With the diminishing returns of the Town Obelisk, you will need to make more towns at a certain point, or expand outside of the protected zone.

My Obelisks system could be expanded to include worker NPC's for different professions (Miner Obelisk, Blacksmith Obelisk, etc.). Obviously they would be taxed by the nearest Town Obelisk and would need to be payed by their owner/employer (creator of the Worker Obelisk), and would need to be supplied with tools, food, and housing.

Miner NPC's could have "work flags" that could be numbered. The Miner would walk to the first detected "#1" Miner Flag first, and would follow the instructions put on it; Walk to flag #whatever, walk that direction, mine that direction until you find ores, only mine whatever ores, etc. (Think Lemmings).

Obviously this brings the problem of chunks being loaded. Simple enough to fix; Just don't have NPC's load chunks. First, make chunks be saved with a value that says if they have ores, trees, or other resources, and what type of resource they have. Then, when a Worker NPC exits the loaded area, it does a quick check for the "Resource" value. The NPC disappears, and shows back up again after a certain amount of time with an inventory full of whatever resource they were going to go gather.

When an NPC goes to a chunk that has been exploited previously, it checks how many times it has been exploited and how many of whatever resource there was when it was first checked. If it has been exploited too many times, the NPC doesn't exit and returns to its home bed.

Of course, if there aren't any of the target resources to begin with, the NPC doesn't return with any.

Something that could be done is for NPC's to leave notes in their Worker Obelisk for the original builder to check. These notes could contain information about how many resources are left in the areas being worked, if they need more food/pay/whatever, etc. None of the values would be exact, apart from pay, and would be estimations ("There's still a large amount of Cassiterite in our mine", or "The Iron mine is almost stripped clean".)

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snip

but what about stopping an undercover griefer (your nieghbor) and would it be coding/user friendly?

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but what about stopping an undercover griefer (your nieghbor) and would it be coding/user friendly?

The leader of the town could, for example, make it to where only designated builders are allowed to build, or people can only build within a certain area (i.e. their property). People who build without permission would be attacked by the guards.

A jail system could also be put in place, with guards binding you with rope or something and forcing you into a "jail area" designated by a "Jail Obelisk".

The system would obviously need to be tweaked and fine tuned after gameplay testing is done. My idea is mostly for larger towns and whatnot and how to defend them, not small-scale defenses. However, the creator of a Town Obelisk could easily set it to where people can't open chests that they don't own.

I don't know how the coding would be done. Theoretically, the most complex part of the worker system would be pathing. The resource gathering would be a simple equation involving the specific job, resource density, tool tier, and how long the worker was gone.

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Ok, i don't know if i will sound like a broken record (and say something if i am). it is supposed to be believable right? start with why governments are formed. usually it is so people can work together towards a common goal(or one guy really likes being a tyrant, but lets go with the common goal thing seeing how we are supposed to be civilized) and that goal is usually to protect themselves and their property from individuals or groups. With this being said the problem is the protection. your stuff can't be protected from griefers when you are logged out. just not possible. sure you can put up a bunch of countermeasures but it is still unlikely.

one solution is the permanent invincible you can't touch me or my stuff because i am inside of this imaginary boundary because i happened to be friends with that guy over there who owns this place. which is pretty cool but lets face it kind of boring(and a mouthfull).

And Bioxx already pretty much said no NPC's so i'm not even going to mention them (at least more than saying i am not going to mention them :) )

So back to the block protection idea. I like it, and it works, but pvp/stealing from each other (which can be fun if moderated) is completely out with it. I would try to bring it in but limited. First off, a wall is required (and can also make your 'lived in' meter no longer deplenish as long as the wall is intact), then some means of defining who owns the place and who can make rules, preferably without commands. I kind of like the charter idea i read about in a previous post for that one. And everything inside of the walls is under the typical no touchy kind of server protections. the difference is. that an opposing team/faction/guild/clan/individual player or whatever you want to call it. can lay siege to the town. and after a set amount of time in which every person in the town has been notified their 'permanent invincible you can't touch me or my stuff because i am inside of this imaginary boundary because i happened to be friends with that guy over there who owns this place' protection goes away. something like 24-48 hours.

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Maybe we could have a seige block that removes block protection in a 20x20x20 area but it takes X in-game-month(s) for it to remove that protection. While the block is threatening the protection it'll send a "Your city is under seige" warning once a day at noon. Here's where it gets fun. You're going to want to hide your siege block so they cann't lift your siege before the timer is up; however, it must be close enough to the target block for it to work. [enter fun balancing PvP mechanic] Make the siege block expensive but reusable and you get rid of "fly-by-night" griefers and introduce siege workshops that produce these for larger sieges. Using this block would mean it would take one siege attack to get by a walled city and another siege attack to level that same city (provided that nobody removes to siege blocks.) Putting that in perspective, if you configure the siege block to work over three in-game-months, then it'll take six in-game-months and alot of siege blocks to level a walled city that isn't fighting back and is smaller than forty blocks in radius (if it's larger than that it'll take more siege attacks.)

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The problem is, most of the ideas that people put across either make raiding useless, aren't enough protection, or would only work in a server with hundreds - if not thousands - of players in each town, city, or nation. Using NPC's to do the simple and/or menial tasks would mediate this problem. NPC's would be perfect for a police force, of sorts, or a simple defensive force in the case of attacks. Soldier NPC's would only be good for fighting off attackers, lawbreakers, or when being led by a player into combat.

Worker NPC's are fully necessary as well, in my opinion. They could be done through my afformentioned system, so that they don't require complex pathfinding and resource gathering AI; They just exit the chunk, check some pre-saved information about that chunk, and then disappear for a while. They then return with a certain amount of resources based on what they were looking for and the resource scarcity in their area.

EDIT: Removed the quote. I started off typing one thing then switched to something else and forgot to remove the quote.

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The problem is, most of the ideas that people put across either make raiding useless, aren't enough protection, or would only work in a server with hundreds - if not thousands - of players in each town, city, or nation. Using NPC's to do the simple and/or menial tasks would mediate this problem. NPC's would be perfect for a police force, of sorts, or a simple defensive force in the case of attacks. Soldier NPC's would only be good for fighting off attackers, lawbreakers, or when being led by a player into combat.

Worker NPC's are fully necessary as well, in my opinion. They could be done through my afformentioned system, so that they don't require complex pathfinding and resource gathering AI; They just exit the chunk, check some pre-saved information about that chunk, and then disappear for a while. They then return with a certain amount of resources based on what they were looking for and the resource scarcity in their area.

Bioxx has already said "No NPCs."

Also if you're going to quote someone at least talk about what they said or there is absolutely no point in quoting them. If I could thumbs down you I would for mis-quoting in the truest from and wasting my time on top of that.

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Bioxx has already said "No NPCs."

Also if you're going to quote someone at least talk about what they said or there is absolutely no point in quoting them. If I could thumbs down you I would for mis-quoting in the truest from and wasting my time on top of that.

My bad on the quote, I started typing one thing then switched to something else.

As for Bioxx already saying "no NPC's", I have a few things to say.

1.) I did not know that

2.) That doesn't really change that my idea could work in gameplay if it were balanced properly.

It is up to the developers, though, so I won't try to push the idea on them apart from pitching my idea to the community and occasionally them.

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My bad on the quote, I started typing one thing then switched to something else.

As for Bioxx already saying "no NPC's", I have a few things to say.

1.) I did not know that

2.) That doesn't really change that my idea could work in gameplay if it were balanced properly.

It is up to the developers, though, so I won't try to push the idea on them apart from pitching my idea to the community and occasionally them.

I can understand some type of simple guard npc, but workers? Aren't the citizens supposed to do the work?(mining, smithing etc) If we ever add NPC, I give a big NO on NPCs that does things we could do ourselves. We're not supposed to make survival any easier for us so even I'm wondering now if a guard NPC is actually necessary at all.

What I do want though is that any person that logs off will be replaced by a 'dummy' NPC that carries your items but does nothing except standing where you logged off. In case of theft or anything else, people could actually find the thief and punish him in some way or another. Of course you could get your items back this way.

Obviously this also means you need to store your goods safely and be in a safe place order to log off without dying and losing your stuff by mobs or griefers. Storage and some kind of security system will be really needed for this. At least this way griefers/thieves can't just magically disappear by logging off when it gets tough.

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I think this has already been mentioned once or twice, but I feel the talk of npcs makes it relevant,

The idea is when you log off you leave a guard npc in your place, the only thing they'd do is stand in for you when you're offline in terms of defending your territory, that would preserve raiding behaviour by being sneaky and allow us defense when offline, otherwise I fear the only option is full protection, which makes the game much less interesting.

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If knockback on the NPC guard was possible, and I was a griefer, I'd strike the npc, lure it to a 3x3x3 hole, and then sparta kick him in once he pathed around it.

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I agree with redundant although its a good idea it would make a lot of problems which would take a lot of effort to solve. However having an entity stay when you are gone sounds like a fun aspect of the game, rather than being mobile it would be nice if they sleeping instead. Additionally if you logged out while sleeping in a bed you would be protected from harm.

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Ideas:

1) What if the kingdoms themselves were specially designated by, as some people said, a flag. And it:

a. makes items in the territory a little harder to break for non faction members, but it also makes some stuff easier to break for both sides (Obsidian and wood (unless its part of a tree)), that way griefing would be lessened. and

b. Alerts people of when they are entering the territory of the flag (more on that later). Two Flag's borders cannot overlap, and the new one will stop short.

Meanwhile, one can right click on a flag to pick it up. (The borders do not leave until the flag leaves said borders) If one logs out while holding the flag, the flag will spawn next to where they logged out. A flag also has a special pathfinding mechanism so that when the flag's placed, it'll send it's borders out to the furthest place (within its built in limit (more on that later)) that one can go from said place to te flag with nothing in the inventory and no movement hacks. This way, flags won't be placed 50 meters up and no one can claim within X feet.

When you craft a flag, it has a max reach of 1x1 chunk, and it'll take the following:

xzz

xzz

x

x = metal rod (crafted out of X metal (IDK how different metals would affect it)

z = Cloth (Put wool in a spinning wheel to make yarn. Weave yarn a lot into cloth (you can use hands (slow), a weaving board (quick) or a weaving machine (lightning fast) (The yarn's damage value = it's % until becoming cloth (I'm thinking 1 wool = 10 yarn)(50 yarn = 1 cloth)

Then, adding Redstone enchancers around it makes it become: 2x2, 3x3, 4x4, 5x5 ect.

Redstone enchancer:

zyz

yxy

zyz

Redstone Block (9 redstone ignots (take restone, smelt it into liquid restone, let it cool, and work it into an ignot)

x = y = redstone torch

z = Gold ignot

(These redstone stuff could be used for more intricate redstone mechanisms and normal machines)

(Redstone enchancers take a redstone charge, and then sends out a redstone charge in any direction)

(Redstone blocks store redstone signals for x seconds AND can be moved by pistons (If you can get them craftable again)

Also, flags must be swapped every x days so that it'll still work. That way:

Having multiple flags:

pros: Harder for enimies to take land

cons: more of a hassle

having 1 flag:

pros: Less hastle

cons: Harder to make, easier for enimies to take land.

(Although with competent gaurds, HMF's pro and H1F's 2nd con doesn't apply)

p.s. Yes, I know the redstone stuff sounds like redpower, but I don't think it's believable a flag doesn't do this stuff without a power source. Plus, it makes the recipe harder. Maybe redstone could even be a little more common in certain places (not all) to balance the, "lots of redstone to make flags better." Thing.)

EDIT:

I can't really find a good TFC server with some land that's a) not 1000000+ metres from spawn while still having: b.) some nonpicked over places. Really, it feels like the game is "Grief for Your Life." And thus I end up playing mainly single player. So I'd love something like this:

Why not have "Spawn Chunks" (groups of x by x chunks where one respawns at a random (available) space within it to prevent spawn killing and to make it more exciting. Maybe 100 player group has their own designated Spawn Chunk at different parts of the map (maybe x to y chunks away) so that not everyone is placed in one small group. It's like, to find more communities you must to actually travel.

Also, having a server option to disable the use of xyz coords in f3 would help too.

Still think this idea is pretty good...

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You people make me sad.

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If you have nothing to add to the conversation, don't post.

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If you have nothing to add to the conversation, don't post.

I've added plenty to this conversation, which you'd know if you read it.

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I've added plenty to this conversation, which you'd know if you read it.

>makes post sin Kingdoms Brainstorming saying that he finds other posters sickening/faith in humanity killing/disgusting.etc.

>Says he's contributed greatly and accuses me of not reading.

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Good to see! Let's watch some wrestling here.

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>makes post sin Kingdoms Brainstorming saying that he finds other posters sickening/faith in humanity killing/disgusting.etc.

>Says he's contributed greatly and accuses me of not reading.

Posted Image

You really haven't read the thread.

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Yes cevkiv you have posted ideas in this thread that unfortunately does not allow for you to make posts that are completely useless. On that though this topic is dead everyone has posted the same ideas over and over and over and there really is nothing to add. Unless we want to repeat arguments I suppose. I agree with Wolf though feel free to attack each other over nothing, it makes our lives more interesting.

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What I'm mainly on about is people keep on going ON and ON about NPCs when Bioxx explicitly said "Will there be NPC's to fill roles in cities?Added 8/10

Probably not unless a very compelling reason is brought forth. I would rather see players take advantage of the systems than have a computer controlled NPC doing everything."

No one has come up with a role where you absolutely need an NPC for anything.

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You absolutely need an NPC to defend a city or town when people arne't online.

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See, I'm not sure if that's true, or just the only thing we can come up with yet, if it is then clearly it could be considered a ''compelling reason'' to have them, and it's obviously a fair deal easier than any thing else we've thought of, but let's think of something horribly complicated and unrealistic to implement and see if bioxx can pull viability out of it where we couldn't.

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