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Bioxx

Kingdoms Brainstorming

899 posts in this topic

When I heard Bioxx talk about how vanilla minecraft is just building on hard mode, I got really excited for this mod, because I have thought the same way for so long. The problem right now is that it's basically the same way when you have all the armor, and tools that you will ever need in TFC. What do you do then? Mine for fun? Not much point. Explore? What is there to see that you haven't already seen?

What if this problem can be helped with something right under our noses...?

NPC's...

I strongly believe that NPC's should be added to the mod because there are so many possibilities that come with them. I could write a novel on how much they can add to the mod. Not only can they take away the feeling of loneliness from SSP, they can also add variety and structure to the world of TFC.

In life people were never alone, and they certainly had a lot of help to reach the age of metallurgy. This can be a problem in SSP because of the fact that is a vast land with absolutely no one in it, and in real-life, it would be impossible to do some of the things that you usually do alone in TFC. If there were NPC's it would add a small, but complete system of economy. The villagers could mine, smith, farm, trade etc. all by them selves with an average of 10-15 other villagers. They could have these jobs, excluding you out of the picture entirely, making some friendly, wanting help from outsiders, and others hostile, only wanting you to go away or even attack you if you come near. Without full armor and weapons these villagers would be nearly impossible to kill alone, so the best idea would be to RUN.

Trust would be an interesting aspect to the A.I. also. With the tribes that are neutral, you could have to gain their trust by building for them, selling to them, or working for them so they will accept you into their community. After some time of gaining their trust, instead of saying: "Tribesman" or "Tribeswoman" above them, they could state their names so you can grow a relationship with each one. Even after they fully trust you with their lives, it can not only be ruined very easily, but still be difficult to trade with them. They have to get the materials themselves in order to be able to buy from them, so they may never have what you want from them. This trust can be ruined just by doing one small thing to irritate them, like steal, destroy parts of their village, etc.

Some villages could be advanced in metallurgy and get very large, and others could stay in the stone age, farming/hunting for food and making small huts for their homes. This could add variety within the villages discovery, not only because you have to be careful approaching them, since you don't know whether they will attack you or not, but also because it will give a reason to never stop exploring the vast world of Minecraft.

There are more idea's that could be written, but I think this is enough for now. I would LOVE to see NPC's implemented to the mod for these reasons.

Thanks,

ExplosionGuy

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44 pages? Seriously? I'm not reading through this. When we switched away from the Beta 2 naming convention the idea of this coming along in 'Beta 3' went with it. That said, the ideas here may still find there way into TFC in the future, but for now I'm focusing on more core stuff. The big poll a few months back about weather people play ssp or smp and in what quantities had a lot to do with coming to this decision. I do still plan to give players a way to control territory but it will come later.

You could have someone read through them for you who know what you know so they can sum it all up for you, that way everyone is heard, and you don't have to waste your time through useless arguing. ^_^

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You could have someone read through them for you who know what you know so they can sum it all up for you, that way everyone is heard, and you don't have to waste your time through useless arguing. ^_^/>

or you could pick some random guy on the forums, tell him to read it all and recap it to you, and say that you were the one to read it all.

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or you could pick some random guy on the forums, tell him to read it all and recap it to you, and say that you were the one to read it all.

Lol. That's true! :lol:

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http://terrafirmacra...__fromsearch__1

Idea: Locks and Flags

Basics:

Flags then make it so that as long as you have been in an area long enough, you become affiliated with the nation. This means the one who placed the nation's first flag that is still standing can see:

  • exactly where you are (if you are within national borders)
  • what, where and who are placing new funcional items
  • what, where and who is locking stuff,
  • and what is being taken, made and put in funtional items.
all via waypoints. In return, said person has access to all locks owned by the nation within the flag's influence range.

You can capture flags by first right clicking on it. At this point you pick it up and a flag stand is left in it's place. The effects stays and all who are affiliated with the nation can see a waypoint of your name and under it is the words "Traitor". You must take the flag out of it's influence to destroy the flag stand and make your waypoint disappear. This allows you to take over entire nations if you are a skilled tactician. Also, this makes flags helpful, but not game breaking. It's only use would be to keep watch over your subjects and allow others to use national chests.

Miniflags are crafted by putting 1 ink sac and a piece of paper in your CT. Then place it and a lock in your CT to make it.

Lock picking could be like a mini-game and different locks can be crafted be metal-smiths to make opening them harder than just clicking on them. If you craft a miniflag and lock together, it creates a community lock that locks it from non-citizens.

Locks protect your stuff UNLESS someone tries to pick your lock. In that case, "chinks" will start to be heard in the nearby vicinity AND if you are part of a nation in which the picked block is influenced, you will get a waypoint saying THIEF and the thief's name.If you are punched while lock-picking, your lock-picking items are dropped as a block similar to redstone next to you. Anyone can then right click said block to pick the tools up.

You also cannot pick while the placer is not online for balance reasons. But if said placer has been inactive for at least one week, the lock can be picked at any time. This promotes devotion to the server and also makes it so that a block cannot stay unpickable for an extended period of time. The lock-picking mechanic gives griefing a high-risk/high-reward status. And can even allow for trained assassins.

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I have just, over the past two days, mostly read/skimmed this thread. I'm not completly done yet, but I have an idea and I want to post it before I forget. I greatly agree with Cevkiv on most things, but people were wanting "Toggleable" options. To fix this in a, what I think would be, reletivily simplier way, why not create diffrent blocks for diffrent "Options."

If you want Full block protection, have that block, if you only want partial, have that block over there, and so on. If each block had one use there wouldn't be need for options to toggle things, as they would only do one thing at a time. Have all of each "set" labled similarly (Defenceive Barraks block, for full protection, and Light Barraks Block for low protection? I don't know!), and basically just warn people about the problems with placing down two at a time or make it so only one can be placed at a time?

Now... I'm going to finish reading these posts. Hopefully not many morepages past 41? Heh...

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http://terrafirmacra...__fromsearch__1

Idea: Locks and Flags

Basics:

Flags then make it so that as long as you have been in an area long enough, you become affiliated with the nation. This means the one who placed the nation's first flag that is still standing can see:

  • exactly where you are (if you are within national borders)
  • what, where and who are placing new funcional items
  • what, where and who is locking stuff,
  • and what is being taken, made and put in funtional items.
all via waypoints. In return, said person has access to all locks owned by the nation within the flag's influence range.

You can capture flags by first right clicking on it. At this point you pick it up and a flag stand is left in it's place. The effects stays and all who are affiliated with the nation can see a waypoint of your name and under it is the words "Traitor". You must take the flag out of it's influence to destroy the flag stand and make your waypoint disappear. This allows you to take over entire nations if you are a skilled tactician. Also, this makes flags helpful, but not game breaking. It's only use would be to keep watch over your subjects and allow others to use national chests.

Miniflags are crafted by putting 1 ink sac and a piece of paper in your CT. Then place it and a lock in your CT to make it.

Lock picking could be like a mini-game and different locks can be crafted be metal-smiths to make opening them harder than just clicking on them. If you craft a miniflag and lock together, it creates a community lock that locks it from non-citizens.

Locks protect your stuff UNLESS someone tries to pick your lock. In that case, "chinks" will start to be heard in the nearby vicinity AND if you are part of a nation in which the picked block is influenced, you will get a waypoint saying THIEF and the thief's name.If you are punched while lock-picking, your lock-picking items are dropped as a block similar to redstone next to you. Anyone can then right click said block to pick the tools up.

You also cannot pick while the placer is not online for balance reasons. But if said placer has been inactive for at least one week, the lock can be picked at any time. This promotes devotion to the server and also makes it so that a block cannot stay unpickable for an extended period of time. The lock-picking mechanic gives griefing a high-risk/high-reward status. And can even allow for trained assassins.

Making sure it doesn't get lost...

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I know your stance on NPCs, but if multiplayer towns are to have any means of defending themselves while the inhabitants are offline, there needs to be some way to get guards which will sprint after anyone who causes damage or steals.

It is very rare that thiefs and griefers attack while other players are around.

If established towns could somehow create a means of generating highly effective guards, then lone wolves simply couldn't leave a town in ruin within 5 minutes.

If players want to raid a town, it will take a concentrated effort and team work.

When a player shows up which isn't on the town roster, guards could approach and follow them.

Perhaps there could be a means to give the guards different stances, like "attack on theft" "attack on sight" "attack only to retaliate for damage caused" and so on.

This is a constant issue with multiplayer worlds, and block permissions and chest locking don't seem to be the best way to handle it, since it removes that PVP aspect from the game.

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weylin, we did have the iron golem in vanilla, perhaps it could be adapted to TFC (retexture and everything) and use its code to defend an area from people not authorized under the flag system i read somewhere else, or even that golems attack anyone that isnt within 4 chunks of some of the towns players for longer than a minecraft day.

(just yapping here,)

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I sawe alot of ideas regardig the safekeeping of chests. Having the ability to protect your items is essential along with all SMP-usage of this mod. That is because ores and ingots in this mod is far more valuable then an iron ingot or diamond in "real" minecraft. The thing we need to do is too see; what does the minecraft comunity have to offer? On that question i have taken the liberty to answer nothing! A sign on a chest does not lock it, right? Also, magic? We don't have fireballs or lightning spells, right? Then why should you be able to use this very magic to lock chests but then for NOTHING else? It does not make any sense.

Since the minecraft community does not have the answers we look for i guess we have to look in the directions of other games. How about The Elder Scrolls? For those of you loyal ES fans you know the obstacles locks in Skyrim or Oblivion might prove to be, how about we combine this system of lockpicking with the crafting aspect of minecraft?

By that i mean you have to craft the locks, a very tedious but rewarding process. Crafting locks should be a process with several steps not fun nor interesting to go through. That means: as a thief, you can no more survive on only thieving because you also have to craft the lockpicks, one ingot might be enough for one lock OR 5 lockpicks. along with better materials locks will be harder to breach, but lock picks will also have better durabilty!

That locks and lockpicks scale differently is absolutely necessary for better locks to be rewarding. A red-steel lock will be close to impossible to breach, and not even a red-steel lockpick in comparison to a wrought iron lockpick will make it easier. One aspect of lockpicking that does not fit with minecraft is the Roleplaying style it has in ES.

To avoid having to implement skills into TFC we therefor have to make sure the skill is in the Player and NOT the in game character. This will mostly be accomplished by having some varieties of locks where you have to learn certain tecniques for each lock. examples of locks that can be used is the circular locks of Skyrim or the more modernistic locks of Oblivion etc. The sources of inspiration are limitless.

The lockpicking part should be formed as a minigame, how i do not know yet. As mentioned it may be simmelar to the lockpicking of The Elder Scrolls. also the creation of keys to these specific locks should be minigame-like. Possibly simmelar to knapping tools just that in a larger scale, Aka more possible shapes. Anyone with with a key with the right shape can open the lock that is designed to be opened by that key. by rightclicking with the key a GUI should be brought up that shows the shape of the key, same thing should apply with locks, but, ONLY the creator of the lock can bring this GUI up.

when you craft a lock you get to decide a specific shape, when yo craft a key you get to decide a shape and if these match each other, you can open that lock with that key.

For all of you that have read my post i'm grateful, these are merely my humble ides.

/Upq0212

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When it comes to dealing with criminals, how about minor offences makes you have to pay a fine if youo get caught and major offences.... What about major offences....?

You kill a guy and what? One day in jail, 12 moths in jail? No thats crazy, they will just switch server. Let's look at history, what did people do about criminals back in the days? Deathscentance? Okay idea, but in minecraft you just respawn. What else did they do...? Exile! like the brithsh with Australia! How about we make criminals colonize certain areas, surveyed by guards? when you serve your scentance you get to return, in these areas you would dissalow boats, or! or you make boats only go along the coast! how bout' that? And you can craft bigger boats with more expencive materials that the criminals can't get their hands on! These boats may hold several people, one captain and a few passengers! If the prisoners are exiled on another continent they will have no chance to escape! Just give it a think...

/Upq0212

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The home stone, if we're going to have one at all, should instead be called a 'keystone'. As in, the block in the central portion of an arch that allows the forces acting to pull the arch to the ground to instead balance. A keystone requires that all blocks in the arch be in place, much like actually having a proper settlement would require having all of the appropriate things in place; it represents the teamwork required to build a successful settlement, and the leadership of the village is the keystone, whether it's a single ruler or the collective will. No mechanics suggestions to add, just a suggestion of a name change to something a bit more symbolically-heavy.

As for the rest of it, for what it's worth, I like the implementation that Haven and Hearth has. Complete block protection with caveats; in Minecraftian terms, you'd need an alternate set of tools to destroy blocks if they were placed by a player (or maybe within a certain radius of blocks placed by the player). So I might want to tear down a wall of my own - I might use a saw or a pickaxe, or another appropriate tool, but if you wanted to do it, you'd have to use a crowbar or a sledgehammer with, as was brought up by cevkiv and Jed, a much-lengthened block-breaking delay. Not only would you have to take longer to destroy something that I built, but you'd need to put in extra resources, too, just to prove how bloody committed and serious you are.

ETA: Sorry about the page 3 necro, but it was topical.

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Alcohol would be a nice way of developing economy and it would be desired in many aspects of the game and the towns if there is one , probably the first things that players in a town would do is get a tour and go to the pub (you can see the ideas of this in this post http://terrafirmacra...ulture-alcohol/ )

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I sawe alot of ideas regardig the safekeeping of chests. Having the ability to protect your items is essential along with all SMP-usage of this mod. That is because ores and ingots in this mod is far more valuable then an iron ingot or diamond in "real" minecraft. The thing we need to do is too see; what does the minecraft comunity have to offer? On that question i have taken the liberty to answer nothing! A sign on a chest does not lock it, right? Also, magic? We don't have fireballs or lightning spells, right? Then why should you be able to use this very magic to lock chests but then for NOTHING else? It does not make any sense.

Since the minecraft community does not have the answers we look for i guess we have to look in the directions of other games. How about The Elder Scrolls? For those of you loyal ES fans you know the obstacles locks in Skyrim or Oblivion might prove to be, how about we combine this system of lockpicking with the crafting aspect of minecraft?

By that i mean you have to craft the locks, a very tedious but rewarding process. Crafting locks should be a process with several steps not fun nor interesting to go through. That means: as a thief, you can no more survive on only thieving because you also have to craft the lockpicks, one ingot might be enough for one lock OR 5 lockpicks. along with better materials locks will be harder to breach, but lock picks will also have better durabilty!

That locks and lockpicks scale differently is absolutely necessary for better locks to be rewarding. A red-steel lock will be close to impossible to breach, and not even a red-steel lockpick in comparison to a wrought iron lockpick will make it easier. One aspect of lockpicking that does not fit with minecraft is the Roleplaying style it has in ES.

To avoid having to implement skills into TFC we therefor have to make sure the skill is in the Player and NOT the in game character. This will mostly be accomplished by having some varieties of locks where you have to learn certain tecniques for each lock. examples of locks that can be used is the circular locks of Skyrim or the more modernistic locks of Oblivion etc. The sources of inspiration are limitless.

The lockpicking part should be formed as a minigame, how i do not know yet. As mentioned it may be simmelar to the lockpicking of The Elder Scrolls. also the creation of keys to these specific locks should be minigame-like. Possibly simmelar to knapping tools just that in a larger scale, Aka more possible shapes. Anyone with with a key with the right shape can open the lock that is designed to be opened by that key. by rightclicking with the key a GUI should be brought up that shows the shape of the key, same thing should apply with locks, but, ONLY the creator of the lock can bring this GUI up.

when you craft a lock you get to decide a specific shape, when yo craft a key you get to decide a shape and if these match each other, you can open that lock with that key.

For all of you that have read my post i'm grateful, these are merely my humble ides.

/Upq0212

Locksmiths, anyone? anyway, The locks should not be judged by metal, but by complexity. you would add complexity the same way you add stages to armor. What complexity would do exactly I'm not sure. But you would want a higher tier metal lock so maybe they have to kill it like an entity of that metal's armor to open the lock

P.S. locks should be a smithing recipe w/ multiple steps.

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i think the best way to totally encourage SMP cities to form is by removing beds as a spawn point (still for sleeping but not spawning) and having a homestone (which people registered to it spawn at) which is difficult to make and requires a set amount of people to make it.

so 6 people make the home stone out of gems and other rarities and use a recipe which somehow requires the input of 6 players. this will encourage players to build around the homestone and people can add themselves to the homestone spawn and cities will grow.

All interactions should be done via the homestone such as auctions and political things.

So due to the rarity of the homestone there would initially be a spawn village for the longest time, then when a homestone is able to be made colonials can move out and set up a new city, the homestone mechanics could also work such that the amount of people assigned to it increases the boundaries of the city so you get a 'welcome to .....' within a certain radius and different rules may apply within it such as taxes or such.

I'm sorry if this has already been said 45 pages of posts is tldr.

I'm also sorry if this is too late this would appear to be quite an old thread.

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It is quite an old thread.

 

 

You're still alive!

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Im playing on a server right now and politics are really well implimented in tfc. Esspetially because of a lack of resources and food, meaning metal for food is acctualy a good trade(i always get into this cycle:all that food-logs off- im staaaarrrving and its winter!)

Really thou if kingdoms are added im for npc, but not op npc's for two reasons:

1.singleplayer: the reason we developped agriculture and metals was so other people could work on other things than GETTING food, propulsing humans into the frits civilisation, and in my book thats egypt. The problem is that in tfc singleplayer, you are the only one there. This means it would be immpossible to advance to another age science you would constantly need to get food to feed yourself(unless you get more food from agriculture and then you use the rest to survive not farming, but then aigain, winter will comme and in working in feilds is supposed to be a full time job)

2.logging off: this is a big problem i always find whit scociety simulation games is that you can log off at any time and, more contradictorly, respawn. Althou i do get that respawning is a key feature to any multiplayer online game, its still a problem(worse penalty?) while you log off your freinds keep playing, your food keeps rotting, and the gears of scociety turn whithout you, making them move in a fasion only and almost all videogame scocieties do. I have no idea how to completley repair this problem, but permanent npc would make it that more beliveble

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i think the best way to totally encourage SMP cities to form is by removing beds as a spawn point (still for sleeping but not spawning) and having a homestone (which people registered to it spawn at) which is difficult to make and requires a set amount of people to make it.

But that would really limit singleplayer a lot...

And although I know TFC is geared to multiplayer, forcing people playing alone to be unable to set their spawn is harsh, you know?

 

I'd rather the homestone be really hard to get, Like maybe needing tons of coloured steel and gems or something, so new players would rather find a town with a pre-made homestone rather then try to make one themselves.

I think the homestone should work somewhat like a monument where the owner can 'ingrave' names of players who will spawn at the stone, and can also engrave other things like rules.

There should be a limit to how much you can engrave on the homestone, but it should be expandable by simply placing another homestone on/next to the existing one.

 

my thoughts on NPC's

NPC's I think, would be a huge boon to small towns starting out, or giant cities that need constant tending.

If NPC's are added, they should most probably be found wandering like nomads or in small huts/villages and extremely rare, and pretty much suck at everything before you 'train' them.

 

Since on servers, time keeps on passing, which rots food, winter kills crops, etc, and there are annoying jobs such as grinding flour/dust, making charcoal, cooking large amounts of meat/making torches, etc.

 

NPC's should not be able to do jobs like mining, building, etc, but we should be able to use them for the repetitive, boring tasks or tasks that need a constant watch such as cutting rot off food, farming(just a simple harvest at fall, plant in spring thing), grinding flour/dust, making charcoal, making torches/cooking meat/bread, working the bellows, fishing, some minor crafting like spinning wool into wool thread and that into wool cloth, sawing logs into planks, making flour into dough, filling barrels with water, staying guard, etc.

The menial repetitive jobs that bore people but are needed anyways

 

Also, NPC's should disappear when dead, unless if you engrave their names on the homestone. then they will revive just like players.

And an Idea.

The homestone attracts monsters/enemies.

Basically, once you place the homestone, evil things get attracted to it(maybe undead monsters, maybe bandits and raiders, or something among those lines)

The bigger you 'upgrade' your homestone, the stronger, and more numerous the enemies get, meaning that the bigger the town and the more playes you get, the more 'opposition' you will face.

 

Finally, I think currency should be metal nuggets.

Or, it could be a hard-to-get material that has no use other then trading(possibly have NPC's trade in them/work for them[if not in a town] to give them value)

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NO. NPCs.

 

Goddamnit people, it's stickied to the top of the forum!

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Meh, there was a thing about NPC's that was added at the OP, so I decided to toss my two cents out there for what I think NPC's should, and should not do.The real reason I posted here is because of the homestone and nugget thing, but the NPC thing came out a bit long

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One big needed to add is a coin mold, ONLY used for gold to create gold coins, and an anvil plan.

 

Also some more medieval items/weapons, like cannons.

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One big needed to add is a coin mold, ONLY used for gold to create gold coins, and an anvil plan.

 

Also some more medieval items/weapons, like cannons.

 

Both of these have been talked about in more recent posts. This post is almost 2 years old and is mostly obsolete/pointless at this time.Cannons have been talked about, and no firearms or weapon using gunpowder will be added to TFC, unless by an addon.

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The following is directed at Bioxx. I will try to be thorough and as brief as possible.

 

In regards to the concept of a "Home Stone"...

 

The idea of a home stone is a massive redundancy.

Towns already exit. People set up and invite friends, build houses and cultivate the land already. The players of a server don't need a block to define a town. They do that themselves.

Houses, tools, farms, metal workshops allready provide the pre-requisit of obtaining resources to build a thriving town. Crafting a block is again, redundant.

If players want protection from mobs they light up the place (more lighting options please) and set up a fence/wall. Spawn protection from a magic block is again, redundant.

This idea of a magic block is just as contrary (if not more so) to the nature of TFC than typing */town create* to arbitrarily define a town. The fact of the matter is it's a magic block, you can't pretend it's anything believable or realistic.

 

To quote Tywin Lannister "Power resides where people think it resides." The same goes for towns. Mutual consensus is the base for all political and economic environments.

 

When you say "Don't force Moderators to solve problems that can be taken care of by the game code." I would propose that this mentality should be extended to include...

"Do not force game code to solve problems that can be taken care of by the regular players themselves.)

 

Players can make towns, secure them against mobs, declare war, make alliances ...etc just fine on their own. In reading this thread it has become clear to me that the problem you face with a push towards fostering towns and cooperation is very specific; Being able to secure your valuables once you have more than just your 4 close friends living near-by. If you can solve this problem then people will no longer have to worry about getting together in larger groups where not everyone is close friends with everyone else. The rest falls into place.

 

If a server wants to have COMPLETE security (unbreakable blocks, unopenable chests...etc) then they would be better off getting a plugin. I don't think TFC needs to be towny or factions or lockette. It just needs a way to allow people to join a town knowing they have a way to protect against thieves with x-ray texture packs.

 

I have been brainstorming a possible solution for this and will link it here as well as create a separate thread for it in the near future when I have it all organized and in writing.

 

 

 

In regards to a currency...

 

For much of history, currency was what people needed. Salt when people wanted salt. Spices when people wanted spices. Metal when people wanted metal.

As I'm sure you well know, what gave coins their value was the fact that they were made of a useful metal. Perhaps there is a place for a "gold coin" but if it is added with current ore generation then someone either has no money... or they find a big vein and then 3 hours later they possess a King's ransom. Regardless of whether or not a currency is added, people need a way to do business when they aren't online. In real life there are hundreds of people buying and selling at the same time in the same place but on the majority of servers 100 players at once in the same area is not going to happen.

Having a sort of "trade booth" block (part of the idea I will post later) would provide the needed boost to allow people to really start doing business with the entire community and would propel the creation of a thriving economy far more than simply adding a coin and saying "This is now worth something!" People need a METHOD to buy and sell more than they need a currency. (though if this is added a currency would probably be the next logical addition)

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