Arrests

[cevkiv 156]

I suggest a simple teleport-to-jail-location instead of a a drag-unconcious-body-to-jail option for the following reasons:

• Easier to code.
• Harder to abuse.

It's harder to abuse the instant teleportation mechanic, as you KO someone and then they're in jail. With a dragging mechanic, you could drag the person to somewhere OTHER than jail. For example, you could drag them onto a block that hangs over a pit that would lead to a lethal drop, and remove the block they're hanging over.

It has been mentioned that a benefit of the dragging mechanic is that friends of the criminal could intervene to save them. Well, if the criminal has friends who are close enough to interfere with the process of them being dragged to jail, then they're probably attacking the town/griefing along with the person being KO'd, which means that they would be better suited attacking the person who is trying to KO their friend with the baton. In other words, if you're attacking a town/griefing in a group, it makes more sense to have one person doing the work and another person watching their back -- kind of like how "intelligent" criminals do it in real life.

As to removing the ability to bring up the debug menu to see X and Z coordinates, I'll just be blunt and say that is a very stupid idea. Some people are too stupid to be able to follow simple directions like "go north from spawn". And I'm not exaggerating. I have played Minecraft with people who do not have the basic knowledge to discern cardinal directions based upon the path of the sun (and in Minecraft, the moon) through the sky. Furthermore, spawn seems to be more of an area than a specific point. I'm also not sure if you always face the same way when you spawn. I, personally, use Rei's, and for two reasons, neither of which is a capability of in-game maps. The first reason is I am very neurotic about how I lay out buildings and walls. I prefer to lay out walls along the lines of chunks, or parallel to the lines of a chunk, and as far as I'm aware, neither the in-game maps nor the debug screen can tell me where chunk edges are. I also like to be able to "see" the shape of what I'm building, and Rei's Minimap, zoomed in, suffices to give me a good idea of what I'm building. I can see the ratio of length to width of a building without having to stop and count blocks. The second reason I use Rei's is to keep track of the location of things, such as ore deposits, clay deposits, or other things of interest. To those who call this "cheating", it's not I could not do myself with a piece of paper and a pencil. Using Rei's, I don't have to waste a piece of paper to keep track of these things.

The Debug screen is useful for more than simply coordinates. Sometimes I like to know things like framerate, memory usage, etc, etc.

[bsb23 303]

I suggest a simple teleport-to-jail-location instead of a a drag-unconcious-body-to-jail option for the following reasons:

• Easier to code.
• Harder to abuse.

It's harder to abuse the instant teleportation mechanic, as you KO someone and then they're in jail. With a dragging mechanic, you could drag the person to somewhere OTHER than jail. For example, you could drag them onto a block that hangs over a pit that would lead to a lethal drop, and remove the block they're hanging over.

It has been mentioned that a benefit of the dragging mechanic is that friends of the criminal could intervene to save them. Well, if the criminal has friends who are close enough to interfere with the process of them being dragged to jail, then they're probably attacking the town/griefing along with the person being KO'd, which means that they would be better suited attacking the person who is trying to KO their friend with the baton. In other words, if you're attacking a town/griefing in a group, it makes more sense to have one person doing the work and another person watching their back -- kind of like how "intelligent" criminals do it in real life.

As to removing the ability to bring up the debug menu to see X and Z coordinates, I'll just be blunt and say that is a very stupid idea. Some people are too stupid to be able to follow simple directions like "go north from spawn". And I'm not exaggerating. I have played Minecraft with people who do not have the basic knowledge to discern cardinal directions based upon the path of the sun (and in Minecraft, the moon) through the sky. Furthermore, spawn seems to be more of an area than a specific point. I'm also not sure if you always face the same way when you spawn. I, personally, use Rei's, and for two reasons, neither of which is a capability of in-game maps. The first reason is I am very neurotic about how I lay out buildings and walls. I prefer to lay out walls along the lines of chunks, or parallel to the lines of a chunk, and as far as I'm aware, neither the in-game maps nor the debug screen can tell me where chunk edges are. I also like to be able to "see" the shape of what I'm building, and Rei's Minimap, zoomed in, suffices to give me a good idea of what I'm building. I can see the ratio of length to width of a building without having to stop and count blocks. The second reason I use Rei's is to keep track of the location of things, such as ore deposits, clay deposits, or other things of interest. To those who call this "cheating", it's not I could not do myself with a piece of paper and a pencil. Using Rei's, I don't have to waste a piece of paper to keep track of these things.

The Debug screen is useful for more than simply coordinates. Sometimes I like to know things like framerate, memory usage, etc, etc.

A couple valid points in there so ill address this your first point is important if they take the effort to knock someone out just to kill them when they could just kill with less effort and a lot less risk.

Maybe they aren't greifers maybe its a citizen being saved from a greifer before they have to raid a castle to save them.

The same idiots who can't find north won't last two days in TFC. I'm not quite sure what the rest has to do with anything, please summarize.

I don't want to remove the debug screen only those coordinates if possible only from survival mode

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

>Grief server to fuck and back

>log once I'm caught or done

>never go back

>damage is irreversible or very bad, no consequences, troll cock level up! You now have 9001 skill points to spend.

>masturbate rinse repeat

There is no cure for this.

Any large body of people on the internet will always be full of cancer

No matter how much chemo you apply, you will only hurt the parts you don't want to.

The best solution is to let the people handle it on an individual basis, and move on.

[bsb23 303]

Its not quite the same as vanilla unfortunately being able to greif will probably take a ton of effort if they want a good quick laugh they will go to vanilla.

[Scooterdanny 285]

I dunno i see an option like dragging being good to a point, while it adds realism i suggest a compromise, what if the character went unconscious for like one minute, then would be tele'd to jail, the character would move even if they logged, and this would allow for situations of rescuing a buddy, as well as not forcing people to lug someone 10,000 meters to jail.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

If beating someone and dragging them away can be used to take someone to jail, why not just implement it outright? Beating and kidnapping could be a feature available to all, for the good and the bad. It does make for a more interesting server.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

This poll seems dead even. We'll probably just decide on our own

[antimattergizmo 41]

Well looking at how much blacksmiths have to look down at GUIs, they would be prime targets would most likely be selling a bit of their wares for extra protection.

[fred da kiko 28]

i like the idea, mainly because it makes the world alive. if some guys wanted to be vikings and raid towns, they could without fear of being instabanned while they still do have some risk involved in attacking a town. it also gives way for jail breaks, meaning someone has to make sure that no one attacks the jail.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

i like the idea, mainly because it makes the world alive. if some guys wanted to be vikings and raid towns, they could without fear of being instabanned while they still do have some risk involved in attacking a town. it also gives way for jail breaks, meaning someone has to make sure that no one attacks the jail.

that about sums it up.

[Omri100 7]

Wrought Iron handcuffs anyone?

[Walmart Germaphobe 15]

Wrought Iron handcuffs anyone?

yep, or bindings, for lower tech

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

yep, or bindings, for lower tech

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

oh... well... hmm. No I don't think... you know what? Even if we don't want it to go there, someone's going to take it there anyway. -___-

[Omri100 7]

Giggity...

[EternalUndeath 1,208]

oh... well... hmm. No I don't think... you know what? Even if we don't want it to go there, someone's going to take it there anyway. -___-

Yup, me.

<3

[SOTMead 24]

If I had to deal with some griefer knob, the last thing I'd want to do is have to take even more time to hunt them down, hit them, and drag them off caveman-style. One command, done and done, no further effort needed.

Also, it should automute them. If you could take away all input ability entirely that would be even better. Or make their screen shake uncontrollably. Anything that makes them uncomfortable and even nauseous would be great. I don't suppose making their game uninstall itself is an option...

Or we could just keep on banning and have more time to play and let Bioxx add actual useful features.

[cevkiv 156]

If I had to deal with some griefer knob, the last thing I'd want to do is have to take even more time to hunt them down, hit them, and drag them off caveman-style. One command, done and done, no further effort needed.

Also, it should automute them. If you could take away all input ability entirely that would be even better. Or make their screen shake uncontrollably. Anything that makes them uncomfortable and even nauseous would be great. I don't suppose making their game uninstall itself is an option...

Or we could just keep on banning and have more time to play and let Bioxx add actual useful features.

Maybe you aren't paying attention, but this is a thread to discuss a specific aspect of features discussed in the Sticky which is for the discussion of things to add in the next beta phase. A thread which was started by Bioxx.

[SOTMead 24]

Maybe you aren't paying attention, but this is a thread to discuss a specific aspect of features discussed in the Sticky which is for the discussion of things to add in the next beta phase. A thread which was started by Bioxx.

Correct. And my contribution is that any in-game "feature" regarding punishment of griefers is unnecessary and possibly even ridiculous. Swift, brutal, and effortless is the way to treat those people, not making it "fun".

[Crysyn 179]

Correct. And my contribution is that any in-game "feature" regarding punishment of griefers is unnecessary and possibly even ridiculous. Swift, brutal, and effortless is the way to treat those people, not making it "fun".

Completely agree. The 'ideas' being debated for Beta 3 are pretty damn insane for trying to in-game self-control and accountability. Most of us in the IRC channel chuckle at that entire thread.. and this thread makes me ... well feel more dumb for having read it.. but I will stop at that as that is pretty sugar coated

[bsb23 303]

You have another problem here there will be warring states and with this command jailing an entire army of opponents could be defeated by a single unarmed leader. Don't even bother saying it can only be used on criminals the leader could just mark the enemy as criminals and do the same thing. I've had this argument already in the Kingdoms thread early twenties if i remember right, save me some unnecessary time and read it.

[Jed1314 420]

Correct. And my contribution is that any in-game "feature" regarding punishment of griefers is unnecessary and possibly even ridiculous. Swift, brutal, and effortless is the way to treat those people, not making it "fun".

This suggestion isn't just about dealing with griefers. The ban function wouldn't be removed and people like you could easily get rid of them with that.

What about those of us who like RP servers ? This suggestion would be a total boon in the form of a sensible method of law enforcement. We (or at least I) don't want to ban players for raiding one another and destroying each others town (if done in a proper RP setting), but I might want to punish them in a semi realistic way (which also allows their mates to break them out).

You (and Crysyn I suspect from his cynicism regarding the suggestion) evidently don't play a style of game which would be suited to this, but that doesn't mean it is a stupid or invalid suggestion. Just saying, there's room for more than one playstyle in this game ¬.¬

[GismoT 50]

there is always a diffrence between a griefer and an rp thief/robber

to defend jed´s but also mead´s point of view

[Jed1314 420]

Completely agree. The 'ideas' being debated for Beta 3 are pretty damn insane for trying to in-game self-control and accountability. Most of us in the IRC channel chuckle at that entire thread.. and this thread makes me ... well feel more dumb for having read it.. but I will stop at that as that is pretty sugar coated

Also, if you guys on the IRC feel this way, why not come and tell people that, instead of (as you said) "chuckling" at them ?

Your word carries a lot of weight here as a member of staff. If you really think something is stupid, tell people. Don't just sit and laugh about how stupid you think it is.

I'd rather be told an idea was stupid early than spend hours working on it with others, then be told it is stupid as we begin to resolve it.

[Crysyn 179]

This suggestion isn't just about dealing with griefers. The ban function wouldn't be removed and people like you could easily get rid of them with that.

What about those of us who like RP servers ? This suggestion would be a total boon in the form of a sensible method of law enforcement. We (or at least I) don't want to ban players for raiding one another and destroying each others town (if done in a proper RP setting), but I might want to punish them in a semi realistic way (which also allows their mates to break them out).

You (and Crysyn I suspect from his cynicism regarding the suggestion) evidently don't play a style of game which would be suited to this, but that doesn't mean it is a stupid or invalid suggestion. Just saying, there's room for more than one playstyle in this game ¬.¬

There is room for more than one play style but it would seem that if you are doing things in a proper RP setting then people would also just obey being arrested for RP purposes. If not then the people who are not obeying it are not RPing properly (Did I mention I play MMOs almost exclusively on RP servers??? PvP RP servers at that ).

This is more along the lines of which is more worth while to the mod. New adventure dungeons to go and find? More creatures in the game? Some new form of building? Or a mechanic that will be used by a small portion of the people who play TFCraft?

And yeah, I am a cynic