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Jed1314

The Poles Distance Poll

75 posts in this topic

I presume most have you have voted on the "distance to poles" poll by now. If not, shame on you !

Go and do it. Right now ! http://www.terrafirmacraft.com/a-not-so-random-poll/#comments

I'm waiting .....

Right, so now that we have all definitely voted on the poll, lets discuss.

GCountach kindly worked out that the rate of travel on foot in MC is around 1.5km/day (wow.. Steve sure does walk slowly)

The average human walking speed is 5km/h. Walking for 12 hours a day a human will cover 60km

First, lets discuss scale. It would take the average human 167 (rounded) days to walk one quarter of the circumference of the earth (or the distance from the equator to one of the poles). It would take Steve 40x this long as Steve only covers 1.5km/day.

Thus, if we are aiming for 1:1 representation of Earth like distances in terms of travel time and not proportionality to Steve's height (which is that of a normal human) then we must scale the earth down by 40x. This leaves us with a distance of 250000m (again, rounded) from equator to poles. This is equal to 167 days of MC travel (as expected).

With 50,000 blocks from equator to pole, we would have a planet roughly 1/5 earths circumference. This means it would take 33.4 days (rounded) to go from the equator to the pole.

I feel this is just right. Others may have a different opinion. Discuss :)

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but if this is added, there should be the possibility to go straight and end up where you came frome -> limited world-> map would become unplayable after, lets say 50 players play each 10 hours a week, about 6 months and then a reset of the map ?

me no likey

the other thing would be, to limit the z axis but not the x

also me no likey

or have i overlooked something (no sarcasm, i am serious!)

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I personally feel that it should be a 1:1 ratio at 250000 meters...

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This will not be a hard limit. It would be pointless for me to actually stop the player from moving at one of the poles. Also the X axis will just keep going and going. Only the Z axis will see any difference. Its important to keep in mind that while 250k blocks is nice and all, it would not be fun to traverse even half of that hence why the poll has such smaller numbers. Personally I think 40-50k blocks is reasonable as it provides plenty of space to make the world feel big.

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Do upcoming changes necessitate the addition of poles, or are you just adding them for realism?

I didn't vote on the poll, because I didn't have any idea how they were going to be used.

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how would the world go on, if you keep going north/south

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Do upcoming changes necessitate the addition of poles, or are you just adding them for realism?

I didn't vote on the poll, because I didn't have any idea how they were going to be used.

I think it'S just about biome generation right?! so if you would start at the equator, going north/south would mean that you would traverse different climates similar to real live, like tropics, subtropics and so on...until you eventually get to the "pole" as in: Cold, icy biomes with nothing around except for icebears and penguins..

how would the world go on, if you keep going north/south

I really wonder about that though..

maybe it would just repeat...so you'd have (simplified of course) :

Desert -> Jungle -> "normal" flatland/forest/hills/ -> tundra/snowy forest -> pole

EDIT:

another question:

[...] Also the X axis will just keep going and going. Only the Z axis will see any difference. [...]

would that mean that biomes would be all the same on the x axis?! so moving on the x axis would have you stay in the same "climate zone" forever?!

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This will not be a hard limit. It would be pointless for me to actually stop the player from moving at one of the poles. Also the X axis will just keep going and going. Only the Z axis will see any difference. Its important to keep in mind that while 250k blocks is nice and all, it would not be fun to traverse even half of that hence why the poll has such smaller numbers. Personally I think 40-50k blocks is reasonable as it provides plenty of space to make the world feel big.

This was my thinking. It wasn't "how realistic can I make it?" but "How long can I really walk before I get bored?" Hence my vote for 30k.

edit: Since this IS minecraft and the world is flat, barring the logic of the statement, would we also end up with east and west poles too? :)

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would that mean that biomes would be all the same on the x axis?! so moving on the x axis would have you stay in the same "climate zone" forever?!

The climate would in fact be very similar along the X axis. Mountains could appear anywhere along the Z axis and biomes as you know them will be drastically different. As a matter of fact, rock layers are no longer tied to biomes and later today nor will trees be completely either.

This isn't some super duper awesome solution to biome spawning where I take into account humidity etc. Sadly that is still beyond my reach. The basic model that I'm looking at trying to emulate is a world in Civilization. I find think it will bring the greatest benefit with the least amount of work.

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The climate would in fact be very similar along the X axis. Mountains could appear anywhere along the Z axis and biomes as you know them will be drastically different. As a matter of fact, rock layers are no longer tied to biomes and later today nor will trees be completely either.

Actual biome sorting according to climate and proper rock formations?! I love you in manly way Bioxx! Seriously, being a organic farmer I was thrilled with the agriculture updates. But this... This is just awesome. Period. I geuss I see your point. But still, it should be 50k.
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I voted for 30k. Overdoing it kills the fun in trying to get there, or anywhere close. Seeing as biomes will change according to distance, I think it'd be boring to see all too huge samey biomes. 10k and 20k seemed a little too little, though.

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Personally I think 40-50k blocks is reasonable as it provides plenty of space to make the world feel big.

I agree, hence why I specified a 1/5 scale world (in the z axis only). I think it strikes the balance between scale and playability and, judging from the poll, most others seem to agree.

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That sounds all really well and i like it:)

BUT still:

how do you go on AFTER the "pole" will it really just repeat?

the other option would be only having "pole" region for ever after z>50k / z<-50k right?

and also: did anyone of you actuallly go that far on a world before?! 40k in one direction....wow..

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I think the farthest I've ever been on any world is 6k. Kinda wishing I could have changed my answer to 10 or 20k.I really can't imagine walking for 5 hours just to see a 'new' biome.

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time will show, since ;I THINK (not it is); bioxx already knows what he is going to code

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time will show, since ;I THINK (not it is); bioxx already knows what he is going to code

Haha..yes it feels like that...

woooh...i'm excited to see the result:D even if i will probably only fully be able to do so in creative....it's too far to walk...

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I think the farthest I've ever been on any world is 6k. Kinda wishing I could have changed my answer to 10 or 20k.I really can't imagine walking for 5 hours just to see a 'new' biome.

Well, I'm guessing that you'll be able to see any type of temperature in a small region, due to mountains. In real life, there are always two types of Tundras: Arctic and Alpine, and Alpine is the type I usually think of. I'll bet that we have Alpine tundras anywhere you find a mountain.

Mountainous regions are usually great for finding metals anyway, so I think it's likely this is the direction we're going. Digging in y-values near or above the surface should be (relatively) easy, encouraging players to stick to mountains and shallow ground for finding zinc/tin/copper. End-game stuff should be down in the depths, with lots of lava (actually magma) to contend with. It may not be completely realistic, but making it an interesting game should take precedence over realism.

Have you ever mined Hellstone in Terraria 1.1? Every block you mine causes lava to fall. So, you build a pillar to stand on, and start mining around you, while the room slowly fills with lava. My guess is that this doesn't seem realistic enough for Bioxx, but I have no doubts that he can add something nasty to make mining in the deepest regions really hard.

So, how would the poles fit into this scheme? Well you can't have all the difficult end-game resources close to the spawning area. If some end game items must come from polar regions and others must come from equatorial regions, then you force the player to "conquer the world" (or at least explore it) before building the best stuff in the game.

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Well, I'm guessing that you'll be able to see any type of temperature in a small region, due to mountains. In real life, there are always two types of Tundras: Arctic and Alpine, and Alpine is the type I usually think of. I'll bet that we have Alpine tundras anywhere you find a mountain.

Mountainous regions are usually great for finding metals anyway, so I think it's likely this is the direction we're going. Digging in y-values near or above the surface should be (relatively) easy, encouraging players to stick to mountains and shallow ground for finding zinc/tin/copper. End-game stuff should be down in the depths, with lots of lava (actually magma) to contend with. It may not be completely realistic, but making it an interesting game should take precedence over realism.

Have you ever mined Hellstone in Terraria 1.1? Every block you mine causes lava to fall. So, you build a pillar to stand on, and start mining around you, while the room slowly fills with lava. My guess is that this doesn't seem realistic enough for Bioxx, but I have no doubts that he can add something nasty to make mining in the deepest regions really hard.

So, how would the poles fit into this scheme? Well you can't have all the difficult end-game resources close to the spawning area. If some end game items must come from polar regions and others must come from equatorial regions, then you force the player to "conquer the world" (or at least explore it) before building the best stuff in the game.

or you could add air like the old n64 game where you had to mine down (motherload is a kind of knockoff) get the stuff

every time you hit air,you got more time to play (arcade game like crazy taxi)

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or you could add air like the old n64 game where you had to mine down (motherload is a kind of knockoff) get the stuff

every time you hit air,you got more time to play (arcade game like crazy taxi)

Now I'm curious what game you are referring to. I never had an N64.

Running out of fresh air while mining can be an issue, but usually poisonous gas is a bigger issue. Maybe we could carry canaries with us to detect gas leaks? Ok, I should just stop with the ideas :)

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i dont know anymore sorry

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The basic model that I'm looking at trying to emulate is a world in Civilization.

So we'll have the 'hex-like' map(of course, with the appropriate conversion to minecraft)? Or something more like this

Posted Image

Since we can just base the biomes by the latitude and maybe altitude, but not by humidity, precipitation and evapotranspiration (that would be a hell to code)

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So we'll have the 'hex-like' map(of course, with the appropriate conversion to minecraft)? Or something more like this

Posted Image

Since we can just base the biomes by the latitude and maybe altitude, but not by humidity, precipitation and evapotranspiration (that would be a hell to code)

That is an accurate representation of what I'd like to see. Although MC does not currently handle sloped rivers etc very well which is sad as that would be fantastic.
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Nice diagram ! .. Well this is exciting business :D

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I feel the need to mention that 1.5k wasn't found through math, just experiment. That is, someone's house was 2k away and I started walking there at 5am and came up 500 short once the mobs started spawning. Terrain was fairly rough, but I was using smart move on easy. To quote the minecraft wiki:

The player is capable of sprinting approximately 5.55(±0.02) blocks per second, as opposed to the regular pace of 4.31.

We'll just say 5.55 sprinting and 4.3 walking per second. Also, it should be noted that one minecraft day is 20min (longer if the server is lagging, but that's another thing) which I'm assuming is 10min of day, 10min of night. Now with that information, the maximum distance steve can travel in one day is 2,580 walking and 3,330 flat out sprinting, which is much higher than my 1.5k observed speed. Of course, this would only happen on flat ground with no water, large hills, trees, etc. and the sprinting speed doesn't take into account time spent eatting as you're hunger bar is draining at 10x its normal speed. Just wanted to make sure that was understood.

I reread bioxx's post a few times and I understand that the X axis will not be finite, but I don't remember reading what the plan was once they reach the pole. Does it start going backwards til you're at equator like biomes or is it tundra for ever past 50k?

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"The biggest change will be in following a Civilization type model to the worlds where the equator is the warmest location with it getting progressively cooler the farther north or south that you go until you reach a limit that we’ll call the arctic circle. The world beyond this point will continue endlessly but there will no longer be vegetation and it will be a permanent frozen wasteland. Moving East and West will continue forever like a typical mc world."

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