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Jed1314

The Poles Distance Poll

75 posts in this topic

Well, I completely missed that in the edited news topic. Shame on me. Thanks.

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Quickpost. I voted for greater than 50k provisionally. Ten plus hours to get from the equator to the great white north isn't too bad as is. The huge time wall will actually encourage people to make multiple worlds or play in multiple servers to experience different climates and such. Also if a faster means of transportation comes around the distance wouldn't be as significant.

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So we'll have the 'hex-like' map(of course, with the appropriate conversion to minecraft)? Or something more like this

Posted Image

Since we can just base the biomes by the latitude and maybe altitude, but not by humidity, precipitation and evapotranspiration (that would be a hell to code)

I posted this in the shoutbox, as a rant, but realized it had enough merit to deserve it's own post.

Do those voting for 50k realize that according to this diagram, you are also walking 20k just to get to one forest? 10k just to get out of the desert? Do you really want to spend 2 hours IRL of walking just to start the game? I'm a little wary of this diagram in the game's current state.

As I've stated earlier, the farthest I've ever walked is 6k.

I don't have the patience let alone the survivability at tier 0 to get to a favored biome. I don't mind walking around when the biomes are random, but if takes me 2 hours to get out the desert and I'm looking at another guaranteed 2 hours just to get to the trees, I just don't see where I'd actually be playing the game.

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Well, I know that bioxx has said the purpose of this change is to force players to play differently every time they start. I don't really understand how play could continue in, say, a desert. But otherwise, I get it. One map you'll be living sustainably in a borean forest, but hunting deer to survive, the next you'll be digging up peat in a plains and farming. After that you'll be slowly deforesting a jungle, etc.

EDIT: Seriously, though, what the fuck do I do in a desert.

EDIT 2: Could you just crank up the bit coal & lignite deposits in the desert & add in coke refining already?

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Well, I know that bioxx has said the purpose of this change is to force players to play differently every time they start. I don't really understand how play could continue in, say, a desert. But otherwise, I get it. One map you'll be living sustainably in a borean forest, but hunting deer to survive, the next you'll be digging up peat in a plains and farming. After that you'll be slowly deforesting a jungle, etc.

EDIT: Seriously, though, what the fuck do I do in a desert.

EDIT 2: Could you just crank up the bit coal & lignite deposits in the desert & add in coke refining already?

that would be unrealistic. If you spawn in a desert, probably best just to delete your world unless you have access to trees in a nearby forest. There's a reason great civilizations don't grow in deserts.

(If you mention Egypt, I would like to refer you to the Nile, and how much that helped them)

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that would be unrealistic. If you spawn in a desert, probably best just to delete your world unless you have access to trees in a nearby forest. There's a reason great civilizations don't grow in deserts.

(If you mention Egypt, I would like to refer you to the Nile, and how much that helped them)

So we can expect Desert River biomes to be lush?

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I voted 10k in the original poll, and was disheartened to see that option wasn't available in the updated poll, so I voted 20k second time around. Reason being: the furthest I have ever travelled in minecraft was less than 4000 blocks from spawn. Most of the time a 2k radius is sufficient, even in SMP. A 10k distant pole still leaves 20,000 blocks from pole to pole, and if people want to travel further they can go infinite blocks east or west. If the distance from equator to pole ends up at 50k, it is unlikely I will ever move more then one temperature band in a given map.

How about having world gen options that lets you pick distance from equator to pole?

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Ooh! I vote edible cactus and sticks dropping from dry bushes!

Or even better: Find skeletons (lying around), get bones for tools. I think it'd be awesome to have some kind of desert survival knowledge in the game. Nothing against palm trees, eh? I really like the idea!

EDIT: I agree with YourLottery. Why not just configure it?

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Idunno the whole idea of "LOL reroll world" seems pretty obnoxious to me, and kind of undercuts the whole concept of "we made this world really big so you just have to take what you get and make do" when the game encourages "just kidding! reroll until you get what you want".

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Do those voting for 50k realize that according to this diagram, you are also walking 20k just to get to one forest? 10k just to get out of the desert? Do you really want to spend 2 hours IRL of walking just to start the game? I'm a little wary of this diagram in the game's current state.

Why would you need to walk a whole 1/5th of the world to get out of a desert ? Look at our planet. It's not like the equator is one big band of desert. There would be biomes distributed around the range of environmental possibilities at the different latitudes, so you aren't looking at one giant 10k wide desert, but many diverse biomes like rainforest, desert, tropical areas and savanna and that is just at the equator.

As I've stated earlier, the farthest I've ever walked is 6k.

Only because that was as far as you needed to walk. If you spawn in a desert with 50k to poles, you have two choices: Walk further or regen your world. Right now, you can experience most of the worlds variety in a day :P

I don't have the patience let alone the survivability at tier 0 to get to a favored biome. I don't mind walking around when the biomes are random, but if takes me 2 hours to get out the desert and I'm looking at another guaranteed 2 hours just to get to the trees, I just don't see where I'd actually be playing the game.

That's not going to happen though. The biomes will be (much) bigger but the odds of spawning in a desert are actually really low when you think about it. Combine this with the fact that you could spawn anywhere in the biome (including very close to the edge) and it looks a lot less grim than "Spawns in middle of desert every time, can't play game". If that does happen, you're seriously unlucky :P

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what if we keep the high distance and mix the biomes,

the biggest "biomes" in RL are, North Africa, SouthWestAmerica, Eastern Russia(Sibiria), NorthWestAmerica

the rest of the world is mixed, mountains,plains,bogland,savannah,wasteland etc

true there is no desert in northern europe but there are areas where there is less rain -> kind of wasteland, sandy, most of the time only grass sometimes bushwood

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What i would suggest (doesent matter what the poll gives out) that you do not always get a world spawnpoint at equator, but also once in a taiga, a normal forest, mountains, hills, planes etc... not just in the middle of the map. That would kill the fun.

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Idunno the whole idea of "LOL reroll world" seems pretty obnoxious to me, and kind of undercuts the whole concept of "we made this world really big so you just have to take what you get and make do" when the game encourages "just kidding! reroll until you get what you want".

well tbh i think that most peeps just reroll their world if they don't like their immediate surroundings.

i myself try to make do with what i have but when i notice that it's going to be a real pain (for several reasons) i sometimes reroll as well, that's just the way it is.

anyways you don't need to worry cause even in vanilla MC there are already 2 biomes fit for the equatorial climate... jungle and desert so no you probably won't have to walk more than an hour to get to at least a jungle or any other livable place even when biomes get massively upscaled.

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It seems this will spread out the temperature ranges quite a bit. Is this going to create a situation where you have to travel 20k blocks to plant different types of crops/fruit trees? I'd hate to have to spend 3 in game weeks running around just to make an orange-strawberry-banana smoothie. :)

On a side note, I could see this being good for massive servers where northern communities could trade needed crops with southern communities but you would need some sort of faster transport like the trains mod maybe.

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and servers that can tak 50+ players

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It seems this will spread out the temperature ranges quite a bit. Is this going to create a situation where you have to travel 20k blocks to plant different types of crops/fruit trees? I'd hate to have to spend 3 in game weeks running around just to make an orange-strawberry-banana smoothie. :)

On a side note, I could see this being good for massive servers where northern communities could trade needed crops with southern communities but you would need some sort of faster transport like the trains mod maybe.

I agree with you in that we need a fast and viable public transport method :)

I'm getting a little bit too excited at the concept of trade between regions of the world .. So excited I am going to make a discussion thread about it :P

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well tbh i think that most peeps just reroll their world if they don't like their immediate surroundings.

i myself try to make do with what i have but when i notice that it's going to be a real pain (for several reasons) i sometimes reroll as well, that's just the way it is.

I'm not going to judge you for doing this, but I've never done it, and that's not really an option for people who mainly play SMP. And I guess to a certain extent I'm growing a little weary of SSP heroes who reroll when things get tough and bed through any danger driving the conversation about how difficult or annoying or realistic the game should be.

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I agree with you in that we need a fast and viable public transport method :)

I'm getting a little bit too excited at the concept of trade between regions of the world .. So excited I am going to make a discussion thread about it :P

Aye, I wasn't going to say it, but when I mentioned a faster means of travel, I had coal powered trains in mind. I think TFC could benefit from some Schizo Tech, applied with extraordinarily careful moderation.

Ever since Bioxx mentioned Homestones, I've felt that we need a hard source of magical influence so we can preform neat tricks without utterly shattering any of the laws of thermodynamics. Nothing should happen for free, basically. I don't if ambient magical energy is a good idea since it's kind of cliché, but it's a good start, I think. Ley lines and stuff can be kind of neat. I don't know.

Also, in case I haven't mentioned it here, I once wrote a post about how I've always thought of redstone as a strange peizo-magical material. When you apply physical pressure to a peizoelectirc material it lets out a charge. When you apply pressure to redstone it lets out enough force to magically push a cubic meter of stone, or whatever. If you wanted to build on that to ground it a little more firmly in reality you could make redstone require a less than negligible period of time to absorb ambient magical energy before allowing it to discharge. Optimization could involve building arrays to turn physical energy into stored magical energy or something. I never put a lot of stock into that idea for TFC because it seemed too overpowered, but I'm sure it could be balanced if someone cared enough. :U

/derail

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I'm not going to judge you for doing this, but I've never done it, and that's not really an option for people who mainly play SMP. And I guess to a certain extent I'm growing a little weary of SSP heroes who reroll when things get tough and bed through any danger driving the conversation about how difficult or annoying or realistic the game should be.

tbh it is an option for SMP players... people who play SMP get a map that was chosen by the host, if the host doesn't like spawn he just flies around and chooses a new one or just get's another map.. so your SMP argument kinda sucks.

secondly, i said i tried to make do but if i'm bored with the area i'm in or am having trouble finding the right ores i'd rather just reroll than spend countless hours to move all of my stuff to a new home.

and lastly... although you said you weren't judging me, your post sounded quite judgemental.. do i need to remind you that most peeps seek out specific seeds or reroll untill they find a good one, at least i try to make do with what i get, if i feel like it won't work out then i reroll but at least i try first. so why the hell is this post directed to me?

anyways you 'tactically' (i presume) cut out the most important part... the one in which i said

anyways you don't need to worry cause even in vanilla MC there are already 2 biomes fit for the equatorial climate... jungle and desert so no you probably won't have to walk more than an hour to get to at least a jungle or any other livable place even when biomes get massively upscaled.

as for how the maps turn out eventually ... i'll leave that to bioxx and dunk i'm sure they'll find a nice way to implement this feature

as for you... i suggest you start accepting other peeps visions, since your first post was nothing but a rant, you usually don't reroll but try to make do... well good for you, i just don't get why you can respond so aggressive about it... other peeps have their own way to play the game, why do you need to dislike them for it. that's like judging someone cause of his/her belief.. just useless and egocentric

P.S. i usually sound a bit aggressive too but my last post was quite friendly... so: nice way to respond to my friendly post mate... good job on sounding like some agressive redneck that only accepts his own vision and can't stand those of others.

anyway, i felt a bit attacked there so let's get back on topic.

should agriculture be affected by climate then i really join the 'pro-transportation movement' some things might grow in the frozen wasteland but especially for smp factions that have a base there things really won't be easy and unless some form of faster transportation is invented life will remain to be extremely hard for them since the nearest 'hotter climate'-area might be a 2-3 hour walk away from them, but since i heard that horses will be implemented i presume those will be a lot faster and could provide a solution.

only problem being, the areas that need them the most are the more inhospitable ones, meaning that no horses naturally live in deserts and on the poles xP so maybe implement some other forms of transportation like camels and dog/wolf-sleds (pulled by one or more wolves, i presume that scripting it for one wolf will be easier?) or just have some form of mountable frostwolves, kinda like the forest wolves' big brother ^^

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tbh it is an option for SMP players... people who play SMP get a map that was chosen by the host, if the host doesn't like spawn he just flies around and chooses a new one or just get's another map.. so your SMP argument kinda sucks.

Yeah, if the seed is something the host doesn't like, but most people don't have an option of rerolling until they get a seed THEY like.

secondly, i said i tried to make do but if i'm bored with the area i'm in or am having trouble finding the right ores i'd rather just reroll than spend countless hours to move all of my stuff to a new home.

Again, another thing SMP players can't do. My point is that if you posted about how ores should be harder to find, or at least shouldn't be easier to find, you're being dishonest- you don't think ore availability is fine, or you wouldn't be rerolling. If you were forced to actually grit and bear it, like most SMP players, you might have a different opinion. Or you might not, but it seems like it'd be dishonest of you to express an opinion about ore availability, when you don't really have to play through worst case scenarios. Same thing with biome sizes. If tomorrow there was a magic change that said you can only start a new world every month or two, which is basically how SMP players have it, you'd probably have a different opinion on this subject

and lastly... although you said you weren't judging me, your post sounded quite judgemental.. do i need to remind you that most peeps seek out specific seeds or reroll untill they find a good one, at least i try to make do with what i get, if i feel like it won't work out then i reroll but at least i try first. so why the hell is this post directed to me?

Based on what are you saying this? You keep saying most people- to the best of my knowledge, most people play SMP, and not as server owners. Bioxx said he's designing the game specifically FOR SMP at this point. Most people CAN'T seek out specific seeds or reroll until they get a good one. The problem I'm having is that the suggestions forum is absolutely populated disproportionately with people who play SSP and do exactly as you describe. But if you're rolling until you find a good ore distribution, for instance, how could you possibly have a helpful opinion on whether the ore distribution is fine or not? We had a ton of these SSP heroes back in build 46 telling us everything in the ore gen was great and they haven't had any problems, and we should learn to use the propick, even though now everyone accepts that oregen was fucked in build 46. It throws off the way public opinion is perceived, when people give positive feedback on systems that they're trying they're damndest to avoid encountering! If you're going to reroll until you get a good biome, then why offer your opinion on the biome layout system? You're going to play the same game no matter how it's designed!

as for you... i suggest you start accepting other peeps visions, since your first post was nothing but a rant, you usually don't reroll but try to make do... well good for you, i just don't get why you can respond so aggressive about it... other peeps have their own way to play the game, why do you need to dislike them for it. that's like judging someone cause of his/her belief.. just useless and egocentric

I don't dislike you for playing the game your way, I have a problem with you trying to affect the way a system that will not affect you, but will affect me, is designed. If a server I play on decides that setting up spawn in a place I don't want to be, and it's a 6 hour walk to the next temperate zone, that affects me. If your SSP game plops you down somewhere you don't want to be, you reroll. So whether or not the 6 hour walk is good design is a discussion I'm willing to have... with someone who it will actually affect. It's easy to think the 6 hour walk is cool when you're never going to have to decide whether to make it, or play the ball where it lies.

anyways you 'tactically' (i presume) cut out the most important part... the one in which i said

Cool, but how do I eat on the walk over there? What do I eat when I arrive? Neither biome has loose rocks, so how do I make tools? Without tools, how do I have shelter at night, or weapons? This is a fixable problem, thus why I was wheedling dunk about lush river deltas in the desert. For that to happen, though, someone has to realize that there is a problem. You're saying that since your playstyle doesn't have a problem with it, there must not be one, so my "aggression" is due to the fact that it seems like you're asking that your playstyle receive the most developer attention, and the fact that your particular schtick- I play SSP, it's not hard when I use SSP's features to ignore challenges, therefore this feature is fine, or even too easy- is quite common on these forums and poisons every community discussion about the game and how it should proceed.

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omg this is the first real discussion thread +1

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Aye, I wasn't going to say it, but when I mentioned a faster means of travel, I had coal powered trains in mind. I think TFC could benefit from some Schizo Tech, applied with extraordinarily careful moderation.

Ever since Bioxx mentioned Homestones, I've felt that we need a hard source of magical influence so we can preform neat tricks without utterly shattering any of the laws of thermodynamics. Nothing should happen for free, basically. I don't if ambient magical energy is a good idea since it's kind of cliché, but it's a good start, I think. Ley lines and stuff can be kind of neat. I don't know.

Also, in case I haven't mentioned it here, I once wrote a post about how I've always thought of redstone as a strange peizo-magical material. When you apply physical pressure to a peizoelectirc material it lets out a charge. When you apply pressure to redstone it lets out enough force to magically push a cubic meter of stone, or whatever. If you wanted to build on that to ground it a little more firmly in reality you could make redstone require a less than negligible period of time to absorb ambient magical energy before allowing it to discharge. Optimization could involve building arrays to turn physical energy into stored magical energy or something. I never put a lot of stock into that idea for TFC because it seemed too overpowered, but I'm sure it could be balanced if someone cared enough. :U

/derail

Curse you Lumi ! I spent two hours reading tropes before I got back to writing this reply >.<

Hmm .. The idea of redstone being piezo electric is interesting :)

I think you're right though .. Either we need some schizo tech or at least horses otherwise the world may get too large :S

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I wonder if it would be possible for Bioxx to lock certain resources. Say for instance you start with only stone. You can collect ores but cannot make them until you have made x number of stone tools, grown so many crops etc. at which point you could start with the low tier metals. Next tier you could collect higher tiers of ore but could not use them until you made so many tools and crops and whatever other reqs are needed. These could all be stored in a config file somewhere.

This would allow for higher technology items like trains and redstone contraptions but you could not start right off with it had you not followed the progression. I know there is a way to save progress like this, the Tale of Kingdoms mod did this and triggered events based on it, but as far as locking items until progress is made, I am not sure how that would work but I think it would help encourage trade and community involvement to help with progression.

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I wonder if it would be possible for Bioxx to lock certain resources. Say for instance you start with only stone. You can collect ores but cannot make them until you have made x number of stone tools, grown so many crops etc. at which point you could start with the low tier metals. Next tier you could collect higher tiers of ore but could not use them until you made so many tools and crops and whatever other reqs are needed. These could all be stored in a config file somewhere.

This would allow for higher technology items like trains and redstone contraptions but you could not start right off with it had you not followed the progression. I know there is a way to save progress like this, the Tale of Kingdoms mod did this and triggered events based on it, but as far as locking items until progress is made, I am not sure how that would work but I think it would help encourage trade and community involvement to help with progression.

I don't think this would be very popular with the community. Having the anvils is already quite a barrier as making the "next anvil up" is quite difficult.

I'm not a fan mate, sorry :/

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