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Devlin

Dragons, ideas. community collaberation page

209 posts in this topic

*facedesk*

Buddy you need to take it easy on the face desks... I expect you already have a minor concussion from tonight.

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Gah, I love all the hidden fun stuff from dwarf fortress.

I won't spoil it, but it's a pretty cool mechanic.

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Buddy you need to take it easy on the face desks... I expect you already have a minor concussion from tonight.

oh dont even get me started, i've broken 12 desks sence joining these forums
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Dinosaur bones.

You're also giving the word "dragon" more variation than any other animal species ever created. Including something like "griffon" (which does not have a world wide spread across culture).

If you want to insist that every culture has "dragons" then you have to recognize the quetzacoatl as a dragon, which it really isn't. You also have to lump together orriental dragons and occidental dragons under the same definition, and the two look nothing alike, have different personalities, and are *gasp* treated differently by people (western dragons are for slaying, eastern dragons are for praying).

And that's before we even get to the native American tribes....

Oh, and if we want to pull the "everyone believes that there are dragons, therefore dragons are ok in a game about believability," then I propose gods, religion, magic, homeopathy, psychic powers, and sacred cows.

Everyone knows that at least two of those work in real life.

oh ok first who said anything about griffons? second third and fourth because im going to lump them together, many cultures have treated many different animals in different ways, while some cultures would actively hunt down and kill an animal, other cultures would protect and worship these animals, this become more and more recognizable with stronger, larger, and more dangerous creatures, while one saw a monster and a threat, others saw power and divine guidance, if you take into account that most cultures not only have different art styles thus slightly altering the appearance of the subject they paint, also take into account that if (not saying they did, not saying they didn't) they did exist then they would be subject to geography like every other living thing. altering geography means altered physiology and behavior, while the geography of Europe might have lead a creature to be hostile in nature there does not mean that a close relative of the species could not be docile and even helpful in China. also take into consideration that the appearance of dragons across the world always has similarities to those closes to them in geography, such as the European dragons which generally have 4 legs 2 wings, and the wyren of north African which looks similar but lacks front legs. and the American style dragons found in lower North America which have large feathered wings and no legs. and so on and so forth, but no matter what changes a dragon goes through, a few things remain constant in any geography, and no matter where you look the basics of their core "DNA" holds true across every species. so maybe dragons were real, maybe they were just victims of nature relocating them and they adapted to survive, who knows, logic says they could not have existed, but logic also tells us to draw conclusions based on what we know. so really it is just a matter of opinion.

and who knows, maybe Bioxx will decide those things fit into the game in some way. if it fits you can probably count on it being added eventually, i don't see this mod ending anytime soon.

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many cultures have treated many different animals in different ways, while some cultures would actively hunt down and kill an animal, other cultures would protect and worship these animals, this become more and more recognizable with stronger, larger, and more dangerous creatures, while one saw a monster and a threat, others saw power and divine guidance

So this creature, this creature, and this creature are all the same, and differ only due to cultural perceptions.

Unlike say this creature and this creature.

I'm afraid that your argument holds as much water as a sieve.

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I'm afraid that your making an ass of yourself by keeping this pointless argument going. So in short, Draco, just stop, this thread was good until this argument broke out :/

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This mod isn't 'realistic' for no reason, it's believable because it adds to the gameplay and fun. If a feature adds more fun and gameplay than just straight up realism, it could get implemented.

What do you think red steel is? And the new nether?

Now stop arguing and lets try to generate some new ideas for dragons in TFCraft.

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well, i for one would enjoy some sort of rune system coming with dragons, maybe carve-able with a chisel.

Possible languages to use would be:

Cirth

Nordic Runes

Dragon (skyrim)

(if you haven't noticed i LOVE Skyrim, and dragons were one of the best parts of that game) :P

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I'm afraid that your making an ass of yourself by keeping this pointless argument going. So in short, Draco, just stop, this thread was good until this argument broke out :/

What I'm trying to do is get someone to define the line between where dragons are believable and where magic is not. Where is that line. Clearly people around here have an understanding of where that line is, but I do not, and I keep asking. People keep saying "believable!" but in defining it simply use a circular reference of synonyms. Or they make blanket statements with no evidence to back it up ("oh, I didn't mean all dragons, I meant very old dragons.")

I am trying to find out what makes dragons believable and magic unbelievable. What quality differentiates one from the other (yes, dragons don't have to be magical, but consider a gradient of grays, where one end is black and unbelievable, and the other is white and believable. Dragons are towards to the white end, magic towards the black, but where does it stop being white and start being black? And the only answer I've received is "where it stops being gray").

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Dunk has already stated that they're going to add an engraving feature. It would be cool if certain patterns had an effect like summoning a dragon or something.

(dwarves mining and building grandhalls of engraved stone until one day when a dwarf accidently engraves the wrong pattern and summons a dragon which must now be slain for the dwarves to regain their mountain hame)

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What I'm trying to do is get someone to define the line between where dragons are believable and where magic is not. Where is that line. Clearly people around here have an understanding of where that line is, but I do not, and I keep asking. People keep saying "believable!" but in defining it simply use a circular reference of synonyms. Or they make blanket statements with no evidence to back it up ("oh, I didn't mean all dragons, I meant very old dragons.")

I am trying to find out what makes dragons believable and magic unbelievable. What quality differentiates one from the other (yes, dragons don't have to be magical, but consider a gradient of grays, where one end is black and unbelievable, and the other is white and believable. Dragons are towards to the white end, magic towards the black, but where does it stop being white and start being black? And the only answer I've received is "where it stops being gray").

If someone can come up with a believable magic system I don't think it would be flat out rejected, plus dragons don't cast magical wizard spells, they are just huge lizard/mammals that can fly :D

Also, STOP trying to understand things so much, some things just are. Dragons are considered ok for TFC, and magic at this time isn't. That's just how things are, be cool with that or be further ridiculed.

Dunk has already stated that they're going to add an engraving feature. It would be cool if certain patterns had an effect like summoning a dragon or something.

(dwarves mining and building grandhalls of engraved stone until one day when a dwarf accidently engraves the wrong pattern and summons a dragon which must now be slain for the dwarves to regain their mountain hame)

Words can't express how much I like what you just said.

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What I'm trying to do is get someone to define the line between where dragons are believable and where magic is not. Where is that line. Clearly people around here have an understanding of where that line is, but I do not, and I keep asking. People keep saying "believable!" but in defining it simply use a circular reference of synonyms. Or they make blanket statements with no evidence to back it up ("oh, I didn't mean all dragons, I meant very old dragons.")

I am trying to find out what makes dragons believable and magic unbelievable. What quality differentiates one from the other (yes, dragons don't have to be magical, but consider a gradient of grays, where one end is black and unbelievable, and the other is white and believable. Dragons are towards to the white end, magic towards the black, but where does it stop being white and start being black? And the only answer I've received is "where it stops being gray").

Ok let me clear this up for you so that you can let things be. We all grew-up hearing legends about dragons, it doesn't matter if they are 100% accurate or not, as such they are believable. Not all of us grew-up under a wizarding family and as such it isn't common knowledge (believeable). In addition to this we cann't disprove dragons because we have no way of finding them. We can however attempt to cast magic and we know that we cann't (unbelievable). If we could cast magic then it would be believable. When we cann't disprove something then it has a chance to be believable (not real or unreal) if it is considered as common knowledge. When we have the ability to disprove something then it maybe considered real or not and if after testing we can reproduce thus said theory it is considered real not believable; however, if after testing we cann't reproduce thus said theory it is both unreal and unbelievable. We cann't produce life of any kind and as such cann't 100% disprove a species of ever existing.
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Ok let me clear this up for you so that you can let things be. We all grew-up hearing legends about dragons, it doesn't matter if they are 100% accurate or not, as such they are believable. Not all of us grew-up under a wizarding family and as such it isn't common knowledge (believeable). In addition to this we cann't disprove dragons because we have no way of finding them. We can however attempt to cast magic and we know that we cann't (unbelievable). If we could cast magic then it would be believable. When we cann't disprove something then it has a chance to be believable (not real or unreal) if it is considered as common knowledge. When we have the ability to disprove something then it maybe considered real or not and if after testing we can reproduce thus said theory it is considered real not believable; however, if after testing we cann't reproduce thus said theory it is both unreal and unbelievable. We cann't produce life of any kind and as such cann't 100% disprove a species of ever existing.

Are we trying to be modern-believable-with-a-time-period-of-1600 or are we trying to be 1600-time-period-believable?

Because I can assure you, in the 1600s, everyone knew that witches were real. Right?

Also, STOP trying to understand things so much, some things just are. Dragons are considered ok for TFC, and magic at this time isn't. That's just how things are, be cool with that or be further ridiculed.

No, I'm not going to stop being that way. What I am trying to do is learn why everyone else here automatically knew that dragons were kosher and automatically knew that magic was not.

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Are we trying to be modern-believable-with-a-time-period-of-1600 or are we trying to be 1600-time-period-believable?

Because I can assure you, in the 1600s, everyone knew that witches were real. Right?

Modern-believable-with-a-time-period-of-1600 else we would have to allow players to turn lead into gold. Now you have your answer, so please stop having this pointless arguement as any further arguement will simply be ignored.
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Modern-believable-with-a-time-period-of-1600 else we would have to allow players to turn lead into gold. Now you have your answer, so please stop having this pointless arguement as any further arguement will simply be ignored.

Then don't be surprised if I have a similar reaction to something in the future. Because I won't know any better.

All I've learned is that you guys are a magical hive mind. And that some of you are jerks.

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Don't worry, we'll let you know if you're wrong ;)

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Bro, it's because dragons are animals*, magic is a direct violation of the laws of physics as we know them.

That's why a dragon is more realistic than magic.

*No insult to Eternal intended, it's a simplification.

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Then don't be surprised if I have a similar reaction to something in the future. Because I won't know any better.

All I've learned is that you guys are a magical hive mind. And that some of you are jerks.

Magical hive mind... In this case, PTFO is acceptable. PTFO, and stop arguing.
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I should be able to use their ribcage as an entrance hallway support system for my house, and their teeth and claws as decoration on my tin and copper armor.

Also, one way that people knew that dragons might be ok in the mod was one of the developers appeared in the forum and said something that wasn't "Nope, not gonna happen ever." People take this for "Yeah, it could happen," and latch on and run with an idea at that point. So the question is not, "Is this believable," it's, "Would the developers believe this is viable." Then again, this could be said for any mod.

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Dragons should have three movement speeds and be able to break blocks. First speed is walking, second is flying, third is when they break blocks. They should walk as fast or maybe a little slower than Steve. They should be able to fly as fast as the Enderdragon. They should be penalized when they break blocks so that they move at half-speed.

... So the question is not, "Is this believable," it's, "Would the developers believe this is viable." Then again, this could be said for any mod.

Wait, are you saying that I'm not the center of the world and neither is any one else? But I'm not writing the mod, my opinion should matter more then the authors. (Please note the sarcasm)
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New Ideas For Dragons, GO!!!!!!!!!!

erhm, overworld dragons would have a massive hoard of shinees at the back of their cave, and you would have to earn their trust by "contributing" to that pile with your own shinies?

btw i like your pic, is that supposed to be your OC?

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Shinies should be native gold, native silver, native platinum, and possibly garnierite. They would be heaped in piles like the loose stone or charcoal, with native metals taking precedence in the horde. Taking from the pile while the dragon lives would activate hulk mode where he rampages after you and flies to keep up if you outrun him.

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if you outrun him.

heh yeah thats gonna happen, ever

maybe there would be gems too and possibly some relics like crowns, jewelry, and gilded weapons and armor there too

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enchanted loot

...

also maybe we could have a red dragon that loves to hoard red steel and a blue dragon that likes to hoard blue steel

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