Content: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Background: Slate Blackcurrant Watermelon Strawberry Orange Banana Apple Emerald Chocolate Marble
Pattern: Blank Waves Notes Sharp Wood Rockface Leather Honey Vertical Triangles
Welcome to TerraFirmaCraft Forums

Register now to gain access to all of our features. Once registered and logged in, you will be able to contribute to this site by submitting your own content or replying to existing content. You'll be able to customize your profile, receive reputation points as a reward for submitting content, while also communicating with other members via your own private inbox, plus much more! This message will be removed once you have signed in.

  • Announcements

    • Dries007

      ATTENTION Forum Database Breach   03/04/2019

      There has been a breach of our database. Please make sure you change your password (use a password manager, like Lastpass).
      If you used this password anywhere else, change that too! The passwords themselves are stored hashed, but may old accounts still had old, insecure (by today's standards) hashes from back when they where created. This means they can be "cracked" more easily. Other leaked information includes: email, IP, account name.
      I'm trying my best to find out more and keep everyone up to date. Discord (http://invite.gg/TerraFirmaCraft) is the best option for up to date news and questions. I'm sorry for this, but the damage has been done. All I can do is try to make sure it doesn't happen again.
    • Claycorp

      This forum is now READ ONLY!   01/20/2020

      As of this post and forever into the future this forum has been put into READ ONLY MODE. There will be no new posts! A replacement is coming SoonTM . If you wish to stay up-to-date on whats going on or post your content. Please use the Discord or Sub-Reddit until the new forums are running.

      Any questions or comments can be directed to Claycorp on either platform.
Bioxx

Official Death Penalty Discussion

262 posts in this topic

Yes!

Perhaps regaining consciousness, and a droopy face (not a pumpkin :P) that takes some time to restore to normal.

This could be only if the player has a bed and spawns from it's new location.

This is annoyance, not penalty. Why not suggest to play justin bieber collection for ten minutes with forced 100% music volume?
2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is annoyance, not penalty. Why not suggest to play justin bieber collection for ten minutes with forced 100% music volume?

NOOOOOONONONO, if that happens, Bioxx can be charged with attempted murder. We can't risk.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This is already implemented. You don't need to eat or drink more, but you start with half the bars of food and thirst.

And...

WELCOME TO THE STAMINA-FULL FORUMS!!!

humm not sure what you mean

This is annoyance, not penalty. Why not suggest to play justin bieber collection for ten minutes with forced 100% music volume?

some people like the kid not me but some and then it wouldent be enough punishment or annoyance

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

humm not sure what you mean

You don't need to understand the welcome, you need to understand the suggestion.

I meant that when you respawn your food and thirts bars are half depleted. And for a bit you're slower. This currently happens in the game.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

some people like the kid not me but some and then it wouldent be enough punishment or annoyance

You got what I meant anyway.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a blindness effect already in game that could be used for this, but the thing is, right after you die, as I'd recently stated, you're going to be regrouping for most of the duration if it's around 5 minutes or so, I think this could be in addition to a real penalty, as flavor, but for the most part it'd be a very mild annoyance that doesn't stop you from dying on it's own, dying and losing your stuff is already a pretty good punishment in this regard, but one I'm not a great fan of.

If making valid points is "being upset over things you make up in your head," then the world is truly lost. If people don't counter stupid ideas with facts, you end up with a cesspool of idiocy, not unlike america's political system this day.

Give me a valid point that isn't just your opinion or your assumption of me.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a blindness effect already in game that could be used for this, but the thing is, right after you die, as I'd recently stated, you're going to be regrouping for most of the duration if it's around 5 minutes or so, I think this could be in addition to a real penalty, as flavor, but for the most part it'd be a very mild annoyance that doesn't stop you from dying on it's own, dying and losing your stuff is already a pretty good punishment in this regard, but one I'm not a great fan of.

Give me a valid point that isn't just your opinion or your assumption of me.

I gave plenty, such as:

It only really punishes players on servers, where a lock out would prevent them from recollecting their items before they despawned. In single player, nothing in the world would be changing, since the world's not loaded, meaning all you've done is delay what the player was already going to do when they respawned, making a lockout more of an annoyance than a penalty. An inventory wipe would have a more guaranteed effect of what would happen on the server, and also penalize players on single player.

Binding a lockout to difficulty defeats the purpose of the penalty. If it were to be implemented and made so the lockout happened only on one or two difficulties, then the other difficulties would have absolutely no penalty, which is what this thread is about in the first place. Most likely, people who play hard would get fed up with not being able to play their game and switch to normal or lower, subverting the death penalty altogether.

Fans will probably leave. Any idea that has the potential to drive away fans is in essence a bad one. Sure, you might attract people who seem interested, but they might not stick around at all, and the fans that leave most likely won't return until the lockout penalty is gone. Yes, this is based on speculation a bit, but you have to factor in that more people enjoy playing minecraft because they can create things and thrive. Most of these people don't play hardcore because if they die, everything they've done is gone. The people who do enjoy hardcore though are probably going to keep playing hardcore, because a lockout isn't a challenge, it's an annoyance.

These are two facts and one strong possibility that I've listed out in previous posts. If you haven't seen them before, try reading my posts before snapping about things. I also haven't assumed anything of you at all, so I don't know where you got that from.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Specifically, you're not penalizing the player by making them unable to play for X amount of time. You're annoying the shit out of the player. Personally, if I were to play a game where upon death I can't play the game for 10 minutes, I wouldn't play the game at all. I play games to have fun. I'm not having fun if I'm not playing the game. I've spoken with several of my friends about this, ones who have expressed interest in TFC, and they have all stated that they would have absolutely ZERO interest in playing TFC if that sort of mechanic were implemented. Some of these friends play Dwarf Fortress, so they're the sort of people who like !!FUN!!, and even they think it's a stupid idea, and there are few games more punishing than Dwarf Fortress, where a single cat dying can destroy a fortress you've spent 40 hours working on.

Would you play a Mario game where the game stopped working for 10 minutes after you died and there were no extra lives in the game? Would you play TF2 if the respawn time was 10 minutes? Even games like Counterstrike Source, where once you're dead you can't do anything until the new round starts, typically have you dead for less than 2 minutes. And even then, the game is still "working".

This mod is supposed to be about believability. It's already not believable that people magically come back to life after swimming in lava. Making them wait 10 or more minutes to respawn doesn't add anything on the believability side, and adds a whole lot on the "Why the fuck am I playing this?" side. There's a reason why you don't see this mechanic implemented (and I can't think of a single game where there is such a mechanic) -- it's because wiser minds than you or I when it comes to game design think it's a stupid idea.

Here's an example of why it's stupid:

I'm a griefer.

I kill you because I take you by surprise.

Then I go to your spawn point and wait 10 minutes for you to respawn at low health with no armor or weapons.

Then I kill you again.

And I'm a no-life griefer, so I can do this for hours at a time.

This "mechanic" adds nothing in the way of difficulty, adds a great deal in the way of annoyance, and makes an absolutely wonderful tool for griefers.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

ya two are both arguing about points I'm not making with arguments that aren't real or relevant, just stop. If at any point your argument comes to some people enjoy it but it's stupid you've lost. This is all about opinion, which is fine to have, but your opinion is NOT universal, I'd really like you to acknowledge that without immediately dismissing it.

Because I have argued that people enjoy different things than you you seem to have both gone on a rampage to bring me down, you can't bring down the idea that your opinion isn't the only one, because it isn't.

Never once have I even come close to proposing hardcore only mode for TFC, but you've both run yourselves up into a panic starting an argument that wasn't even there.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're the one going off on an argument about opinions. We're talking about a death penalty that won't work. If a well spoken argument is a "rampage," what does that make flipping out, tantruming, and general whining?

And no crap my opinion isn't the only one. If it was, you'd have shut up days ago.

I also know that this isn't an argument about how the lock-out idea is bad. This is an argument that started based on you delusionally thinking that people supporting the lock-out idea is a perfectly fine opinion and not stupid, which is factually inaccurate as indicated by the examples I have listed. Supporting a bad idea is stupid. I'm curious really, why do you defend people who support a bad idea?

You argued people enjoy different things. However, I can't think of a single person that would enjoy playing a game that makes them not play the game. Now, don't say hardcore mode, because that is completely different than not playing the game. Hm... oh wait, I've thought of people who'd be in full support of an arbitrary lock-out mechanic: People who don't play minecraft. They'd love a mechanic that let's them continue not playing a game they don't play in the first place.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Guys, we are on a forum here there really is need whatsoever to get angry or directly/indirectly insult someone. I suggest you all reread each others posts and then politely respond like the civilized beings I'm sure you are.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are again trying to define stupid based on your opinion, I'm sorry, I can now feel comfortable saying you're a moron, as it appears to be the popular thing to do with those whose opinions differ, you've not PROVEN anything, you've listed your opinions, and your assumptions and then concluded from that that I was 'stupid' I really just wish you'd understand what you're doing so you'd stop confusing yourself, the difference between observable fact and anything you've said is vast, observable facts aren't just you saying 'these bad things would happen' it's watching and saying 'I saw these bad things happen in this situation before.'

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

...you've listed your opinions, and your assumptions and then...

Don't forget all of the logical fallacies!

Those are my favorite :wub:

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You are again trying to define stupid based on your opinion, I'm sorry, I can now feel comfortable saying you're a moron, as it appears to be the popular thing to do with those whose opinions differ, you've not PROVEN anything, you've listed your opinions, and your assumptions and then concluded from that that I was 'stupid' I really just wish you'd understand what you're doing so you'd stop confusing yourself, the difference between observable fact and anything you've said is vast, observable facts aren't just you saying 'these bad things would happen' it's watching and saying 'I saw these bad things happen in this situation before.'

You know, it's not hard to find an example for a mod implementing bad decisions that drive fans away. Better Then Wolves is a prime example. Flowerchild has been working at making his mod as incompatible with any other mods as he can possibly make it, and when he started doing that his mod's community started to dwindle rapidly, as players couldn't play his mod with other mods they enjoyed.

As for griefing potential, just look at the history of minecraft itself. Anything that has been added that could be used for griefing purposes has been used as such, and that extends to things mods add. A lockout would be an amazing griefing tool as it completely removes the player, leaving them unable to stop the griefing completely.

Both of these are your "observable facts" that support things i've said. I've yet to see any facts that support putting in a lockout function, therefore I can safely assume that it's a bad idea, and supporting a bad idea is always stupid. How can you even argue that supporting a bad idea is smart? Unless you can make a plausible argument that supporting a bad idea is the smart thing to do, then what I've said will remain a fact.

I'd also like to point out that never once have I called you stupid, i've only said supporting a bad idea is. I've also never said anyone's opinions are stupid, though you can't argue that there's no such thing as a stupid opinion.

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're bad at this, you've used the description of BTW doing something 'bad' to describe bad ideas turning the community away, this assumes you already find it a bad idea, and given that it's nothing at all like your example this would mean that is just an assumption again with no reasoning on show.

Griefing isn't a game problem, it's a community problem.

I'm done, you've got a hard time discussing this without pushing your assumptions as proof

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

You're bad at this, you've used the description of BTW doing something 'bad' to describe bad ideas turning the community away, this assumes you already find it a bad idea, and given that it's nothing at all like your example this would mean that is just an assumption again with no reasoning on show.

Griefing isn't a game problem, it's a community problem.

I'm done, you've got a hard time discussing this without pushing your assumptions as proof

Complain about a lack of observable facts on my part, then dismiss it when I provide some, and twist stories for your own benefit. Would you happen to be a republican?

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Griefing isn't a game problem, it's a community problem.

It doesn't mean we should give them more tools, they already have plenty.
0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If there's to be permadeath it should be a configurable option. Not everyone who plays TFC also wants to play hardcore. And if someone is playing in single-player mode, who cares if they suicide to avoid hunger? They're only cheating themselves.

I would like to see hunger have greater consequences than it currently does, though

Losing all of your items when you die would be good. It might annoy the other players in a multiplayer world but screw them: TFC is meant to be more difficult than vanilla.

Respawning at a new random point in the world would be pretty harsh, but interesting. A less brutal penalty would be to respawn somewhere within, say, 5000 blocks of your old spawn point. That would also reward players who had done enough exploration that they might recognize their new spawn point and know how to get home from there. I like anything which encourages more exploration.

I also like the idea of making hunger itself sufficiently annoying that players will want to eat long before they get to the point of dying. Let's say that once you get down to half your hunger bars there's a tiny percentage chanceeach minute of passing out for a couple of seconds. The hungrier you get, the higher the chance of passing out. If you keep passing out while trying to mine blocks, that would be a pretty good motivation to go find some food.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

If there's to be permadeath it should be a configurable option. Not everyone who plays TFC also wants to play hardcore. And if someone is playing in single-player mode, who cares if they suicide to avoid hunger? They're only cheating themselves.

^ This. Let people configure their game the way they want to play. It's pretty damn obvious (from some of the posts in this thread...) that people have very different opinions about this topic. Also, this way you don't exclude people who don't want to be on a Hardcore setting where you loose all your work. The only problem I see with this is where Bioxx comes in; he may have envisioned TFC a certain way/want everyone's TFC experience to be the same...

Losing all of your items when you die would be good. It might annoy the other players in a multiplayer world but screw them: TFC is meant to be more difficult than vanilla.

I like the idea of losing items, though removing them from play is pretty harsh. I still like the thought of scattering items in a 5,000 block radius around your player's death spot.

Respawning at a new random point in the world would be pretty harsh, but interesting. A less brutal penalty would be to respawn somewhere within, say, 5000 blocks of your old spawn point. That would also reward players who had done enough exploration that they might recognize their new spawn point and know how to get home from there. I like anything which encourages more exploration.

I like the IDEA of rewarding players who have explored, so if they die, they could easily find their way back. But think of the other side of this. If a player dies, even by accident, and they hadn't explored very far or just get unlucky in the new spawn point, they LOSE EVERYTHING. Might be a little passed annoying, more on the edge of rage-quit.

I also like the idea of making hunger itself sufficiently annoying that players will want to eat long before they get to the point of dying. Let's say that once you get down to half your hunger bars there's a tiny percentage chanceeach minute of passing out for a couple of seconds. The hungrier you get, the higher the chance of passing out. If you keep passing out while trying to mine blocks, that would be a pretty good motivation to go find some food.

I know that I always eat before my health bar gets below half. Maybe that's just me though. But I do kind of like the idea of small debuffs that occur when you are low on food; blackouts, stumbles, etc are a relatively realistic thing and would definitely cause a player to be more careful about their hunger bars. Imagine working outside in the sunset, getting really hungry. Oh, you'll just finish this last big of digging, you'll get food when you go back home. Then, boom, you pass out only to wake up a few minutes later in the midnight sky, monsters lurking around! You'll be sure to eat up right away next time!

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

What about if In the game you would get level the more you something. For example the more you used the anvil the easier it would become to do or the more mob you kill the easier it becomes to kill mobs. If you died you would lose all of your levels and have to start over again

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

the more you used the anvil the easier it would become to do or the more mob you kill the easier it becomes to kill mobs.

But it's already like this without any levels. I'm pretty sure I can take on a TFC zombie with my fists and win the fight. I will be very bored, but still.

And I can't see how you possibly can make anvils easier to use than they are without adding "autocraft" option.

1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Zombie are going to get stronger in s future update so what I said could still work

0

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Hi all!

I'm new to these forums, been mucking around with this mod for a few months, it's wonderful. I warn you now, this is going to be a long post, feel free to skip it!

I run a fairly small server, 10 people max. On this server, I attempted to set up a player-run economy.

On a vanilla server, I immediately ran into an issue: Food was worthless, because of the current death penalty (none.)

I used a plug in called ban on death, and set the penalty to 15 minutes.

Two things happened:

- People valued their lives CONSIDERABLY more, and food was extremely valuable. Up there with iron.

- The server died.

As people have pointed out, if you can't play for fifteen minutes, you just go and play something else. This death penalty also had another issue.

A pvp war began (un-moderated, this server is entirely player run), and I had to step in as admin and demand they came to an agreement, because the war was never going to end. In fifteen minutes, dead players still came back, now with even less to lose, because their base was destroyed.

I've been following this thread closely, as a solution to this problem is essential not just in TFC, but in minecraft! So far, I've seen nothing useful, just people suggesting new respawn debuffs, which have been (wisely) repeatedly rejected, and bickering.

I don't have an answer, but lets think about other games where dying is and isn't an issue:

Quake style shooters have no death penalty, but reward survivors much like ECC is suggesting: surviving allows you to accumulate armour and better weapons, dying resets you to your starting gun and no armour. However, due to tiny map sizes, getting these advantages back is not a massive issue. as a result, players tend to value killing others over their own lives. It's not a big problem like MC, but I don't think it makes death a big enough catastrophe.

DF: remember, individual dwarfs die permanently. TFC makes you feel like a dwarf, but remember: In df, ALL but one of your dwarves can die, and you don't lose! DF has a very harsh penalty for losing (permadeath of the fortress), but DF is a very bad game to use to help us decide this, as DF is all about losing. The game is about either how long you can avoid losing, or how catastrophically you can lose. TFC is not this game!

most singleplayer games make you reload from a previous point in time, but MC doesn't really work that way, though it's a possible Singleplayer solution we should take seriously. Old fashioned saving.

As for multiplayer, I think ECC's "world de-buff" is GENIUS. This mod has so many time-eating mechanics that I only play it multiplayer because singleplayer is too slow. Inevitably, TFC is a co-op game where you live in a village. Making you have to reclaim your village is the kind of mechanic that means death is to be avoided and continues to encourage cooperation, one of the things that makes this game truly realistic.

What I'm saying is, the dead-body DF style Ghost (please not a zombie, use a ghost. Everyone is sick of zombies of any sort) is enough of a death 'penalty', when combined with dropping all your items, and potentially respawning far from your home (pre-bed) or far from wherever you were if not at home.

To be clear:

the dead body problem means dying at home SUCKS, as you have to clear out your home again to make it safe.

the displacement mechanic currently in native minecraft (spawn back at your bed) means dying far from home ALSO sucks, as you will probably lose all your items.

Good thinking ECC!

4

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites