Grinders

[Treyflix 277]

no this isn't Canadian humour. Bioxx stomped it all.

Nick: I thought we were trying to move away from RPG? What's with getting more health as you level?

Robert: players need a reason to WANT to stay alive

Nick: But that allows grinding. We decided against that...?

Robert: no

its a balanced number

Nick: Weren't we going for a metaskills game?

Robert: yes but this warrants it

Nick: hm :/

Robert: explain another way to make players not want to die then

Nick: uhh

Robert: the onyl incentive is for them to lose something that is potentially important

Nick: But once they do die, and they have no more levels

they can die over and over with no consequence

if they haven't level theres no loss

leveled*

Robert: except for the fact that you start with low health and low food and a slow debuff

so it would be annoying to purposfully do that

Nick: doesn't that provide enough incentive?

Robert: no

that makes dieing annoying

it doesn't add anything to the game

Nick: If I join a server, I don't want to lose a bear hands fight with another player simply because he killed more chickens than me...

Robert: you won't

hands dont do increased damage

unless you want a 15 min fight

Nick: no but on average you might assume we'd hit eachother the same number of times

I would drop faster because he would have 25 health when i had 0

Robert: realisitically that won't happen

so its a non issue

Nick: Your logic seems to follow a different path than mine. Without testing it in practice how can you say that?

Robert: players run around, miss each other as they are fighting

not to mention that teh scenario simply wouldn't happen

you do 1 damage with your fist

you ahve 1000 health

it wont' be happening

Nick: wait what

1 damage with fist?

Robert: yes vanilla

Nick: but 1000 health

Robert: I won't be upping that

Nick: so... boxing is pointless?

Robert: yes

Nick: wat

watwatwatwat

How much damage does an arrow do?

Robert: 75 iirc

Nick: So... I can get hit with 10 arrows and still run around?

with 1/4 life left?

Robert: thats teh math yes

Nick: but...

If I had an arrow in my lung...

I wouldn't be running around

let alone 10 arrows...

Robert: no point going that route

I may as well give players 1 hp with that lgic

Nick: not necessarilly

Having an arrow in your lung doesn't mean you're going to die

you would need to be treated though

You're not dead, but you're dying

Robert: with tfc's time period yes your dead

ud suffer massive internal bleeding

Nick: yeah

well

Depends how big of a hole

modern arrows generally make clean ones

Robert: we aren't talking modern tho are we

Nick: guess not

in the medieval period, a warrior with an arrow in him would still be attacking you, but he wouldn't be walking away from the fight necessarilly

Robert: when it coems to combat I won't be going a realistic route

that would mean that all the weapons are the same

so theres no poitn having tiers

Nick: Physical properties of metals certainly affect things though

Robert: a stab in teh gut is a stab in the gut weather its Steel, Titanium or plastic

Nick: I meant for the person who uses the weapon

Robert: which we can't emulate in a game

Nick: and it makes armour vital

I meant an iron sword loses it's edge much faster than a steel one

which does less damage

Robert: thats a whole other thing

Nick: Does that mean we can't implement it?

Robert: yes

that would be another annoyance with no value

Nick: What if you gave people the ability to improve the sharpness of their blade above the original by sacrificing durability as a metaskill on a grind wheel?

If you fuck up your blade is dull and does less damage

if you succeed it does more damage

either way it loses durability

Robert: doesn't work that way

you can't modify weapon damage at runt ime

not without base edits

Nick: Crits multiply damage dealt. Each attack multiples by a number greater or less than one?

hm?

you there?

Robert: playing MC

Nick: sorry

Robert: thats more hard coded stuff

and regardless I'd rather not mess with combat much

mc does not lend itself to advanced combat well. simple works in this case

Reading that conversation was like dying, very, very slowly. What on earth is wrong with Jed's system? It completely covers everything! The combat update was the most exciting prospect to me... Besides the Cubic Chunks/realistic world height/realistic trees idea atleast. I guess, if its a trade off between those two I'd easily choose cubic chunks...

Maybe when the mod is done some will make a mod for TFC called combatcraft. :/

[Leosallespoli 338]

Reading that conversation was like dying, very, very slowly. What on earth is wrong with Jed's system? It completely covers everything! The combat update was the most exciting prospect to me... Besides the Cubic Chunks/realistic world height/realistic trees idea atleast. I guess, if its a trade off between those two I'd easily choose cubic chunks...

Maybe when the mod is done some will make a mod for TFC called combatcraft. :/

Soon I'll give an update on the CC prospect... As soon as I get some answers.

[bsb23 303]

Honestly, I'm angry at the conversation but he has yet to add or remove anything or remove anything from the game that has angered me at all minus the unbalanced attack values and the removal of wild plants (I was really looking forward to plant genetics).

However I think really we are mostly just mad at the combat system, as it says Bioxx is having difficulty finding a system that works and isn't complicated, we want a system that is more exciting than what we have now. So what happens now? This is a forum and things said above aren't set in stone lets come up with some ideas otherwise we are doomed to spam click for the rest of our lives. (and Dunk was types of damage also shot down?)

To Begin...

To start we have to fix the death penalty, it makes things way to RPG however Bioxx is right we haven't really presented any solid ideas to fix the problems (punish death harshly, no permant problems and no RPG, but still easy to code[i thought this was Bioxx and he could do anything, but apparently this is necessary).

The Idea...

Look this has been suggested before but I'm going to put this out there, what about the physical abilities idea? Jumping will make you tired but eventually you will jump higher sprinting will get slowly faster over time as well as it would last longer, and for my own sake punching ability, my God it needs to be one of these physical traits maybe dealing up to twenty damage if you have been playing forever (still isn't very much but it certainly is better). Others could include but aren't limited too striking speed, javelin range, bow range/speed, firestarting, length of swimming, resistance to fall damage, turn speed, striking power, mining power, other types of tool efficiency and so forth.

I don't expect all of these to be added just some groupings would be nice (general strength, weapon experience, foraging experience, stamina, and maybe outdoorsman.

The Conclusion...

It isn't perfect but we need to think, don't mudsling ideas, think them through refine others ideas, find compromises between differing ideas. We need something or else Bioxx won't have a choice but to leave us in the eternal state of vanilla combat/death. We should reopen Jed's threads and revise his ideas as well.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

Honestly, I'm angry at the conversation but he has yet to add or remove anything or remove anything from the game that has angered me at all minus the unbalanced attack values and the removal of wild plants (I was really looking forward to plant genetics).

However I think really we are mostly just mad at the combat system, as it says Bioxx is having difficulty finding a system that works and isn't complicated, we want a system that is more exciting than what we have now. So what happens now? This is a forum and things said above aren't set in stone lets come up with some ideas otherwise we are doomed to spam click for the rest of our lives. (and Dunk was types of damage also shot down?)

To Begin...

To start we have to fix the death penalty, it makes things way to RPG however Bioxx is right we haven't really presented any solid ideas to fix the problems (punish death harshly, no permant problems and no RPG, but still easy to code[i thought this was Bioxx and he could do anything, but apparently this is necessary).

The Idea...

Look this has been suggested before but I'm going to put this out there, what about the physical abilities idea? Jumping will make you tired but eventually you will jump higher sprinting will get slowly faster over time as well as it would last longer, and for my own sake punching ability, my God it needs to be one of these physical traits maybe dealing up to twenty damage if you have been playing forever (still isn't very much but it certainly is better). Others could include but aren't limited too striking speed, javelin range, bow range/speed, firestarting, length of swimming, resistance to fall damage, turn speed, striking power, mining power, other types of tool efficiency and so forth.

I don't expect all of these to be added just some groupings would be nice (general strength, weapon experience, foraging experience, stamina, and maybe outdoorsman.

The Conclusion...

It isn't perfect but we need to think, don't mudsling ideas, think them through refine others ideas, find compromises between differing ideas. We need something or else Bioxx won't have a choice but to leave us in the eternal state of vanilla combat/death. We should reopen Jed's threads and revise his ideas as well.

why is this still being discussed? Bioxx said no, its not happening guys

[Treyflix 277]

why is this still being discussed? Bioxx said no, its not happening guys

Think about what you just said, and then go sit in the corner.

[Azdoine 218]

I'm not a fan of the latest changes to health, hunger, and death, but just like pretty much everything else in TFC, it's not the finished version, things are still moving. Buckle up and join the ride.

Even if this is the final version, it's not a change for the worse, just a... different way to play.

[bsb23 303]

why is this still being discussed? Bioxx said no, its not happening guys

I thought the same thing about no RPG elements what this man says isn't law. He is human he thinks and changes his mind same as you and me. He may not change his mind, but I firmly believe that Bioxx is the kind of person willing to learn something every now and then and listen to the people around him. If he doesn't change his mind then so be it, but I will at least be content knowing that I tried and didn't roll over and take whatever we were handed this a forum for a reason. Because we love this mod and we want to see it operate at full potential. Now are we going to continue to argue about it? Or are we going to at least try to help Bioxx.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

I thought the same thing about no RPG elements what this man says isn't law. He is human he thinks and changes his mind same as you and me. He may not change his mind, but I firmly believe that Bioxx is the kind of person willing to learn something every now and then and listen to the people around him. If he doesn't change his mind then so be it, but I will at least be content knowing that I tried and didn't roll over and take whatever we were handed this a forum for a reason. Because we love this mod and we want to see it operate at full potential. Now are we going to continue to argue about it? Or are we going to at least try to help Bioxx.

but still it is his mod, if he doesn't want something, it aint gonna happen

[bsb23 303]

He is human he thinks and changes his mind same as you and me. He may not change his mind, but I firmly believe that Bioxx is the kind of person willing to learn something every now and then and listen to the people around him... Now are we going to continue to argue about it? Or are we going to at least try to help Bioxx.

[kotoroshinoto 97]

I was on my way into class at that moment, so I didn't have time to explain.

I discussed weapons and armour and all that with bioxx at length. I am really not too pleased with the combat update. Players now have 1000 health. Arrows do 75 damage and fists do 1 damage. I complained that fists are utterly useless and that as a player I can walk around with 10 arrows sticking out of my skin with no ill effects. He said "meh".

It's bioxx's impression that changing combat is too much trouble and that it should just stay simple. This means that the combat overhaul thread jed started so long ago is also stomped.

This may sound a little biased but i am not happy with some of the things in this mod atm.

bioxx is out of his mind if he thinks keeping combat simple is going to save this mod from over-designing. The forging system turns what should be a fairly simple concept (albeit not too easy) into a serious pain in the ass and now he's saying that modifying combat would prevent it from being SIMPLE? Maybe I could take that seriously if he took out the forging GUI and replaced it wiith something simpler.

Dont get me wrong I actually like the forging system (though every single one of my minecraft playing friends hate it, its the reason they refuse to play TFC AT ALL), but my point is, be consistent, if you are content making the crafting system fairly involved and complex, then why should you be unwilling to do the same with weapons and combat except for unfounded and unreasoned personal bias?

[renadi 258]

Yeah, I'm confused about what Bioxx is looking for now, seems to be trying to go too far in both directions and I'm not sure how that's gunna turn out.

[bsb23 303]

Well, it was worth a shot guess we are going to be stuck with vanilla combat after all...