Torches should burn out

[Gedric 5]

Also on a side note when the team discussed that they also thought about handheld light sources, this would be awesome.

a few days ago I was wondering why torches don't provide light when you're holding them, is kinda lame that I have to "plant" a torch whenever I'm walking by somewhere a bit darker. mostly when I'm hunting at night, and I have to leave a torch trail behind me... just doesn't feel right...

[Jivix 21]

Here's my two cents:

Torches are cool, but the way we make them in TFcraft right now is primitive - lighting a stick in a fire. Obviously these types of stick-torches shouldn't burn for a long time, in reality probably wouldn't even make it 15 minutes. Maybe we could have some way of getting pitch to make some longer-lasting torches. I like the idea of oil lamps, but how/where would you get the oil from? Perhaps you could get alcohol from corn grain? You could also make a small alcohol stove instead of using a campfire, but you'd have to cook things in a pot.

Torches, Campfires, Forges, and Bloomeries should all have stability issues when it's raining, in addition to making a fizzling sound like when it's raining on lava. Perhaps if they are in the rain too long they will fizzle out. As for indoors light, one word: Candles.

As for mob spawns, you have to remember that mobs won't magically spawn within a certain distance. We spent our first few nights sitting next to a campfire with no torches, and we never had a mob wander close. I hope this mod eventually does away with the regular mobs, and adds persistent enemy mobs (maybe there is a bear that inhabits the forest you live in, and terrorizes you when it's feeling hungry). I want the realism up a notch or two (no pun intended).

I like the tedious work involved with surviving in TFCraft, I only hope that it gets harder and harder to survive but always with a way to live in a stable environment. If we can never feel safe because our light source keeps going out too often, then we need an option that will last longer or we'll become sad. Since this mod is intended to be a simulation of survival IRL, we need every game mechanic to function in a natural (but fair) way. Swords should kick ass (if they are sharpened properly), torches should burn out, you should get thirsty and hungry (without magically dying instantly), animals should be persistent, and trees should grow MUCH slower. I don't demand these things, but I think they would all make the game more immersive and fun if they are eventually included. Oh, and you shouldn't be able to carry 27 full stacks of 64 m^3 of stone! Maybe we could make stone piles wherever we are mining, like how we can make wood piles.

[Michidez 9]

its a bit off topic, but I see you want trees to grow slower. How about really making them grow, you first have 1 log,2 logs, ect. so every tree grows like a big tree eventually.

[Jivix 21]

I don't think having torches burn out is unsafe or unrealistic... And it's easy to set up a block set that mobs can't spawn on, so this mod could essentially prevent mobs from spawning on planks/smoothstone/cobble/bricks. Perhaps the code could even check to see if a mob could walk into your courtyard and if he can't, it won't spawn a mob there.

You have plenty of other things to be scared of than darkness.

[NegiMagica209 2]

a few days ago I was wondering why torches don't provide light when you're holding them, is kinda lame that I have to "plant" a torch whenever I'm walking by somewhere a bit darker. mostly when I'm hunting at night, and I have to leave a torch trail behind me... just doesn't feel right...

It'd be nice to have and I'm sure it can be done, but for the game to have to update the lighting every time you move could cause extreme lag. I love the idea though.

[Jivix 21]

We already have to do lighting updates during time of day changes, loading/unloading chunks, and anything with moving blocks (like pistons). What difference would having light emanate from a player have? Even then, you could do a client side aura of light, kind of like how the Diablo II lighting system worked. That was nice.

[RogueHydra 32]

I've run MC on a computer with no graphics card and hardware that's roughly 6-8 years old and there is very little performance loss if any at all when I ran the mod that gave dynamic lights. Throw a torch and it would cast light while it's falling or light while holding it in your hand.

[Jivix 21]

I've run MC on a computer with no graphics card and hardware that's roughly 6-8 years old and there is very little performance loss if any at all when I ran the mod that gave dynamic lights. Throw a torch and it would cast light while it's falling or light while holding it in your hand.

I think everyone's worried about SMP where there could be potentially 20 or more people running around with torches in an area. I say if there's too many for a computer to handle, just have the computer flip to clientside-only light so only your own torch gives off light (along with placed torches).

[RogueHydra 32]

It should already be client side only. Unless MC is some weird anomaly in a world of multiplayer games that use dynamic lighting. All dynamic lights are always calculated client side. Their positions are usually done server side, but that's not the light, that's just the position of it.

[DanNetwalker 8]

It should already be client side only. Unless MC is some weird anomaly in a world of multiplayer games that use dynamic lighting. All dynamic lights are always calculated client side. Their positions are usually done server side, but that's not the light, that's just the position of it.

Correct. The server tells the client "there's a light source at coords x, y, z, of this colour, this strong", and the client does the maths.

By clientside, I think Jivix means static sources of light, like placed torches and such. The thing is, there's really no difference between two or two docen players. The server already tells the client what object each player is keeping in their hands. The client just adds the relevant sources of light to the list of light sources to render, and that's a job for the graphic card. At the end, the real problem I see in smp is not the 20 torches the players are sporting, but the 2000 torches placed on the castle's walls.

[thekkm1 0]

I disagree because i think it will be really annoying replacing every torch i place down.

[Devlin 51]

As soon as you can tell 'In doors' vs 'Out doors' you have removed the need for torches to control spawning really So solve that problem and we would not have to have this half-way compromise.

i have a simple idea for how to tell the diffrence between indoors and outdoors, you see, you could but in, if it does not already exsist, a simple coding process that allows a the game to "record what blocks are natural and any blocks that are not natural, meaning player placed, will cause a searh to be done, the block will first see if it is part of a wall, atleast 2x2, and will count all blocks place iin a x and y positions around it as part of the wall, can count natural placed blocks as a apart of a wall but only as high as the player placed blocks and in the same direction of the wall, then it will check to see if the area is enclosed and has a roof.

another way would use torches, torches would update any and all blocks that it lights up as a home base if it is in an enclosed location witha roof, meaning that if it does not find a wall close by, say 3 blocks away from here the light ends it does not cause a safe zone, the safe zone only effects a small area. meaning only the blocks it lights up, any locations above and or below it would remain hostile, then a second update if the torch is removed that causes any area that is not light up by the torch any longer to become hostile, if the area is still light then the area remains safe, if there are torches still around, that cause the safe zone effect then it does not make the area hostile even if the torches go out, so torches could go out but cause a safe zone effect around themselves that can be removed by removing the torches, also a later teir way to make a permanent lighting source, or atleast one that lasts longer, is lanterns.

also i found a use for pertified wood, pertified wood is a fossil, they were once biological material that has fossilized, the thing to realize is that when something fossilizes it turns into fossil fuel as it seeps out of the hole it greated and allows stone to take its place. my idea is that petrified would could be used as a way of saying that there is fossil fuels bellow the wood, not directly down from it but close by some where under it, and the further down it is the farther away from the wood it is so if it is say 20 blocks deep it could be as far as 50 blocks north south east west or any other direction. this would allow the player to get oil for lanterns, and other such resources, gasoline is useless but fossilfuels have other uses and it would be a limited resource that would have to be managed carfully.

[Devlin 51]

I disagree because i think it will be really annoying replacing every torch i place down.

you would not always have to replace them, most you would just have to relight in the firepit forge or with a flint and steel, which seeing as how low teir it is it should be re implemented, maybe not as flint and "steel" but in teirs, going from 2 flint all the way trhough iron and up to steel or red steel

[RogueHydra 32]

Yeah I kinda think I like that method for relighting torches with a flint & metal combo. And I'm guessing the burnt out torches are just darker textures as well (like redstone torches when they're off)? That sounds perfectly reasonable to me. Or maybe use the firestarter?

[DanNetwalker 8]

The firestarter is cheaper than iron and flint, so I whould recomend it.

Also, I must insist only unprotected torches should burn out.

[Devlin 51]

i have a better idea, rather then just trying to come up wit all these little halfway ideas, how about torches and all light sources get some new coding, torches should create a Safezone effect, it would reach as far as their light source goes, so the typical torch as i is now would crate a safe zone up to 14 blocks away from itself, but, and here is the catch, if the torch goes out the safe zone goes away, unless there is a wall within that safe zone and/or a torch close by that has a wall in its safe zone, so this way, a torch can be used to create permanent safe zones and you just relight them to see, but if the torch does not have a wall or torch within its safe zone when the light goes out mobs spawn. a wall should be atleast 3 long and 3 high, this way the player can create a safe zone in a cliff for the first night. also naturaly spaned blocks should not be counted as a wall, instead a wall must consist of player placed blocks. i have seen several mods that are able to track which blocks are natural and which blocks are player placed so this coding is possible, although i do not know how difficult it would be to code so this is just an opinion, also, fecnces are another viable way to create a safe zone, fences could have a script that when being placed they search to see if they are connected on at least 2 sides by another fence, then when the "circuit is closed. meaning an entire area is closed off, the fences create a safe zone incside that area, that mobs can not spawn in. this would allow the use of less torches when herding and corraling farm animals. this could also be applied to other blocks, and when the fences are taken down, the circuit ends and the safe zone goes away. you could also make it so that player placed blocks run a simmilar script thus allowing the creation of an indoors as opposed to outdoors. however an indoors version of the coding would require a roof and walls atleast 2 high

[Antice 2]

Since mob spawn behavior is apparently going to be changed soon, then i think that the whole safe zone concept is maybe becoming superfluous. If monsters always spawn within designated areas and then move towards the player from there then any enclosed space is safe as long as the door is locked. it would also remove all the spawns happens in darkness mechanics of the game. so stuff like your mineshaft will remain safe as long as no monster moves in from elsewhere to make a new nest in it. (if that part of the new mob spawn mechanics suggestion is implemented that is).

It's kinda natural that nasty wildlife will takes over your house/fort/castle if you leave it alone for too long. with the den/nest spawn mechanic then torches no longer matter for safe zoning your house.

[Hyena Grin 92]

This thread was linked in the sticky post, so hopefully I'm not doing any overt thread necromancy here.

I have thought a lot about lighting and how it seems to be off in its own little world; while the mod makes just about everything else in-depth and interesting, lighting remains overly simplistic and not something that needs to be managed. I think the best way to handle this would be to create several tiers of lighting;

Torches: Burn out after 24 hours, otherwise are identical. Can be relit with the firestarter so that you don't have to keep making batches of torches.

Brazier: An object made from raw stone or metal that you can fill with sticks or logs, ignite, and it will burn like a campfire, providing light. You could balance it out so that a full stack of sticks (64) or a full stack of logs (16) would burn for a very long time perhaps 24 hours per log(16 days max), and 6 hours per stick (16 days max). This would give you a semi-permanent light source that I think everyone could agree would be manageable. They would light a larger area and have a larger protection effect than torches do. Like a campfire, if it goes out, more fuel and a fire-starter would relight it. The specific amounts of times could be adjusted to make things last longer.

Lantern: The final light source would require fashioning a metal lantern (out of a single ingot - any metal will do) and combining it with a pane of glass and a piece of charcoal. These lights would be permanent and behave the same as torches do now.

That would give you a clear progression and stages of semi-permanent lighting, without the irritation of a huge technology gap between unreliable torches and permanent lighting.

[achartran 465]

This thread was linked in the sticky post, so hopefully I'm not doing any overt thread necromancy here.

I have thought a lot about lighting and how it seems to be off in its own little world; while the mod makes just about everything else in-depth and interesting, lighting remains overly simplistic and not something that needs to be managed. I think the best way to handle this would be to create several tiers of lighting;

Torches: Burn out after 24 hours, otherwise are identical. Can be relit with the firestarter so that you don't have to keep making batches of torches.

Brazier: An object made from raw stone or metal that you can fill with sticks or logs, ignite, and it will burn like a campfire, providing light. You could balance it out so that a full stack of sticks (64) or a full stack of logs (16) would burn for a very long time perhaps 24 hours per log(16 days max), and 6 hours per stick (16 days max). This would give you a semi-permanent light source that I think everyone could agree would be manageable. They would light a larger area and have a larger protection effect than torches do. Like a campfire, if it goes out, more fuel and a fire-starter would relight it. The specific amounts of times could be adjusted to make things last longer.

Lantern: The final light source would require fashioning a metal lantern (out of a single ingot - any metal will do) and combining it with a pane of glass and a piece of charcoal. These lights would be permanent and behave the same as torches do now.

That would give you a clear progression and stages of semi-permanent lighting, without the irritation of a huge technology gap between unreliable torches and permanent lighting.

We have two terms for this, necromancy or a revival. I don't know which one this is because this thread happened months before I got here, and I haven't read it. But just thought I'd let you know, the others will tell you which one this is.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

It's necromancy, sorrily, 'cause this was suggested before... so close to be a revival... but nope.

[ECC 508]

Read a little bit. I can safly say that mobs can be movedunderground AND torches can use the method delvin proposed all those months ago. How? The hacky cheaty method of forcing mobs to check for skylight which is always level 15 light even at night. torches would then produce this light along with rendered light and poof, there you go: mobs underground, lights CAN burn out but still protect even if out. The code work is technically done for it all considering its a mash of vanilla features. Just a case of putting it together and making it sensabally work

typed this while sick. I know i made mistakes somewhere, ill enough to not give a damn.