Tree growth speed/size

[Artuga 15]

Hello there, newly registered forum lurker and huge TFC-fan here

First of all i apologize if this has already been suggested, i did try the search function before posting.

Ever since i began to play minecraft, the instant popping trees has been bugging me. They only have one growth stage, and they just grow up WAY too fast from when planted.

I really love the way fruit trees grow in this mod, and was thinking something similar should be done towards other trees aswell. The idea is for trees to start out similar to the fruit trees, and then gradually grow past the sizes you get from saplings today, and up to more realistic scales found in the real world (but over several years.) this could also justify adding saplings for jungle/seqoia trees to the game, as they would probably never actually grow to the sizes you find in a freshly spawned world without several decades/centuries passing by.

I don't think this would be too hard to implement given the mechanic already implemented for fruit trees, but to be fair i don't know a thing about coding/programming. And i would just love to have a bit more plausibility to woodgathering as i feel the current system is simply too easy and WAAAAY too fast. This would encourage people to replant areas as they gather, and be rewarded for letting trees grow for longer before harvesting them (thus having larger areas dedicated to forests.)

Is this something people would like to see?

[redundantusage 330]

I think it would distinguish the mod in a unique way, I think it'd be more challenging to be sure, not sure how much I'd appreciate it though with as much wood that I use in building. If something like this was added however, challenge accepted.

Also, welcome to the forums.

[transcengopher 349]

This will require trees to be rewritten from the ground.

The main concern from gameplay point is that this will possibly lead to deforesting huge areas in wait for the planted trees to grow back as we all need a lot of wood to progress. I'd say couple of days (as it is right now) is too fast, but couple of years seems way too slow.

Also in regards to kapok and sequoia saplings bioxx said that he could allow us to grow tiny trees, but he did not to raise the awareness of this types of wood being unrenewable resourse.

[Artuga 15]

I think it would distinguish the mod in a unique way, I think it'd be more challenging to be sure, not sure how much I'd appreciate it though with as much wood that I use in building. If something like this was added however, challenge accepted.

Also, welcome to the forums.

Thanks for the welcome

Regarding using alot of wood, i am thinking about posting a suggestion for more resource-effective wooden walls (building with 1x1x1m blocks just doesn't feel right anyway.)

Something along the lines of eight planks with a vertical support beam in the centre to create 4x wooden walls (1x0,25x1m size) This would make houses look better, and reduce your construction materials alot once you get access to a saw for support beams. Breaking them would give back 1-2 boards.

But that's for another thread

[Artuga 15]

This will require trees to be rewritten from the ground.

The main concern from gameplay point is that this will possibly lead to deforesting huge areas in wait for the planted trees to grow back as we all need a lot of wood to progress. I'd say couple of days (as it is right now) is too fast, but couple of years seems way too slow.

Also in regards to kapok and sequoia saplings bioxx said that he could allow us to grow tiny trees, but he did not to raise the awareness of this types of wood being unrenewable resourse.

I am aware of that statement from Bioxx. Hence why i wanted to find a way to implement them without giving them an advantage over other trees. If they were implemented, i would picture them as the slowest groving of all the tree types, considering how sturdy the wood have to be in a tree in order for it to ever reach such a height in reality.

The deforesting issue is something i see as a consequence that should be in place anyway. I've been to some older mining areas here in Norway, and they are typically stripped of trees due to the massive demand for wood both for mineshafts and for burning/smelting. So i think having to take preemptive measures against such a situation would actually add to the gameplay in a SMP-perspective.

[achartran 465]

First off, don't double post. Edit your previous post instead, please

Thanks for the welcome

Regarding using alot of wood, i am thinking about posting a suggestion for more resource-effective wooden walls (building with 1x1x1m blocks just doesn't feel right anyway.)

Something along the lines of eight planks with a vertical support beam in the centre to create 4x wooden walls (1x0,25x1m size) This would make houses look better, and reduce your construction materials alot once you get access to a saw for support beams. Breaking them would give back 1-2 boards.

But that's for another thread

I have a feeling set size wooden wooden wall will severely limIt creativity, more than it is already by the only thing we have being cubes. As someone who loves to build, I can't say I think that is a good idea.

Oh, and welcome to the Forums!!!!!!

[Treyflix 277]

I definitely support this idea. This would go pretty well with the cubic chunks idea to allow trees to grow to their full height...

Imagine, a world with full sized trees...

With cubic chunks and tons of fun...

You may say I'm a dreamer...

But I'm not the only one!

[LordOfWolves 514]

You may say I'm a dreamer...

But I'm not the only one!

I am another, probably. But full sized trees? This is the perfection for minecraft.

[ECC 508]

'gameplay in a SMP-perspective.'

Haaate to break this to you, but players are typically stupid. Any and all resources, INCLUDING dirt becomes scarce the longer a map stays in use. It does not matter what is put in place to prevent issues like this, players as a group will let everything die, every resource vanish, then spam this forum with 'y no wrk?'

there is NOTHING to stop this, and only closed/private servers are safe from stupidity from the general populace.

also, welcome to the forums apparently. Hopefully, you last longer then the last guy.

Totally unrelated, know any good body dumping sites? ;D

[achartran 465]

also, welcome to the forums apparently. Hopefully, you last longer then the last guy.

What are they now, red shirts?

Totally unrelated, know any good body dumping sites? ;D

Sherlock might, but he's locked himself in his study...

[ECC 508]

'What are they now, red shirts?'

Yep

'Sherlock might, but he's locked himself in his study...'

Uhhg, fine, I'll hide the last gu- I mean check out my old haunt.

[GreenLeaf 198]

Stupid players let their world go barren because they're too lazy putting out new sapplings everytime they cut a tree down, and i honestly don't blame them. especially with this mod that requires me to pretty much clean a tree from its leaves in order to get one, two at most, sapplings.

What i'm proposing is, and stay with me here, trees spreading by themselves! every once in a while a sappling will spawn, prefferably close to an existing tree and the same species.

If it can it will eventually grow into a tree but it should deffinetly take a lot longer.

What you'd end up with would be a world that, if not kept in place by the player, will grow wild and thick with trees.

Having the woods grow by themselves would take a much longer time than planting the sapplings directly by yourself. but that means chopping down a tree without planting a new tree would not mean a catastophy.

Kapok and sequoia trees should remain as they where though.

[LordOfWolves 514]

Stupid players let their world go barren because they're too lazy putting out new sapplings everytime they cut a tree down, and i honestly don't blame them. especially with this mod that requires me to pretty much clean a tree from its leaves in order to get one, two at most, sapplings.

What i'm proposing is, and stay with me here, trees spreading by themselves! every once in a while a sappling will spawn, prefferably close to an existing tree and the same species.

If it can it will eventually grow into a tree but it should deffinetly take a lot longer.

What you'd end up with would be a world that, if not kept in place by the player, will grow wild and thick with trees.

Having the woods grow by themselves would take a much longer time than planting the sapplings directly by yourself. but that means chopping down a tree without planting a new tree would not mean a catastophy.

Kapok and sequoia trees should remain as they where though.

Like nature overhaul mod. Good, because it breaks all the existing tree farms and it makes everything natural. And tree farms are not a thing to do in TFC. Bad because the player is no longer required to make trees grow.

[GreenLeaf 198]

Like nature overhaul mod. Good, because it breaks all the existing tree farms and it makes everything natural. And tree farms are not a thing to do in TFC. Bad because the player is no longer required to make trees grow.

I don't think the player should be required to make trees grow. a responsible player can help and aid in the development of a forest. an irresponsible player ends up with a barren landscape which might never recover.

And i believe tree farms ARE a thing to do in TFC.

Plant a tree, wait a day, plant another, wait another day, repeat, repeat until the first tree has grown to harvesting size, chop it down and plant a new one in it's place.

Now with trees that grow in one or two minecraft day, this strategy would become obnoxious and wouldn't really be necessary.

Have the trees grow much slower and players can develop their own plantation designs.

Create and take care of your tree farm and you will have a good quickly growing source of wood.

Or screw it all and get an instant fuckload of wood by raping mother nature and her dog in the ear! #YOLO!

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

I've had some ideas for this for a while which would change how all trees look in TFC. It involves branches which stem out from the trunk, and leaves would be locked to branches instead of the actual wood block. It allows for leaves to appear in a canopy instead of a thick ball around the trunk, which not only makes them look more realistic but also cuts down on the amount of rendering that needs to happen.

Branches also give you the unique ability to make leaves drop in the fall. This didn't use to be possible as spring time leave spawning on wood blocks would create very leafy tree trunks. The branching ability also allow for new branches to grow, allowing trees to annually acquire more leaves and wood blocks, the only forseeable problem would be with trees that grow from the bottom up, but I think this could be avoided.

[GreenLeaf 198]

I really like the sound of leaves dropping in the fall!

But please don't make me rake it all up.

I do enough of that in real life!

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

lol don't worry. When I went camping at the end of July, Bioxx told me to try and think of ways to make TFC better while I was gone. The most important thing I noticed is that TFC/MC forests are much different from real ones. In real life, you are often walking among the tree trunks over deadfall and leaf litter with the canopy high above you. Another thing is that jungles don't often (in my experience) have much plant life on the ground, as there isn't enough light, and grass certainly doesn't grow down there. Bushes and shrubs are quite common in the gaps where trees fall or near rivers where light penetrates down. I would like to see leaf blocks throughout forests which behave like vanilla snow, but cause grass blocks to turn to dirt blocks.

[transcengopher 349]

Like nature overhaul mod. Good, because it breaks all the existing tree farms and it makes everything natural. And tree farms are not a thing to do in TFC. Bad because the player is no longer required to make trees grow.

Nature overhaul did this the hard way, I think. What can be done is mechanic similar to the growing grass, but with few restrictions in regards to sapling spawning conditions.

-snip-

This is what I meant when said that trees required to be rewritten from the ground. And as it seems to be the easy way (not programming-wise necessarily) to handle season changes, I'm all for that. The sad part is that trees overhaul could make it impossible to place log blocks. I quite like how support-ish they look like.

[Artuga 15]

I've had some ideas for this for a while which would change how all trees look in TFC. It involves branches which stem out from the trunk, and leaves would be locked to branches instead of the actual wood block. It allows for leaves to appear in a canopy instead of a thick ball around the trunk, which not only makes them look more realistic but also cuts down on the amount of rendering that needs to happen.

Branches also give you the unique ability to make leaves drop in the fall. This didn't use to be possible as spring time leave spawning on wood blocks would create very leafy tree trunks. The branching ability also allow for new branches to grow, allowing trees to annually acquire more leaves and wood blocks, the only forseeable problem would be with trees that grow from the bottom up, but I think this could be avoided.

That sounds awesome If something like this was implemented, would it also make trees able to grow in a more randomized pattern? I'm thinking a formula based on tree type that gives different probability to grow in different directions, branch out etc. This would make most trees grow in a similar pattern based on it's type, but also allow for more variation in tree designs.

Trees are typically a good source of landmarks in real life, and i think having larger/more unique trees growing would make for a more diverse world, as well as making navigation alot easier for some people who don't want to use coords or minimap mods.

To clarify a little, what i was initially suggesting would not necessarily make wood more scarce. It would simply be a tradeoff to have slower growing trees, but having potentially more wood in each tree if they were left standing for longer. Thus encouraging having larger forests standing rather than having a 25x25 block area supplying you with wood, and never have to consider running out.

To ECC: I'm sorry, but i don't see player stupidity as a major deciding factor for upping the difficulty on some mechanics. When i refer to SMP, i was actually having small private servers in mind. On the occations that i do play on public servers, i tend to start by running several thousand metres off before settling down, and rather live with having to travel further off to trade with others. Your post about player stupidity seems more like an argument against open SMP-servers in general, rather than directed towards my suggestion.

[GreenLeaf 198]

lol don't worry. When I went camping at the end of July, Bioxx told me to try and think of ways to make TFC better while I was gone. The most important thing I noticed is that TFC/MC forests are much different from real ones. In real life, you are often walking among the tree trunks over deadfall and leaf litter with the canopy high above you. Another thing is that jungles don't often (in my experience) have much plant life on the ground, as there isn't enough light, and grass certainly doesn't grow down there. Bushes and shrubs are quite common in the gaps where trees fall or near rivers where light penetrates down. I would like to see leaf blocks throughout forests which behave like vanilla snow, but cause grass blocks to turn to dirt blocks.

One thing that always come to mind when i think of the forests i've been to is moss!

Primarily in pinewoods.

[redundantusage 330]

I think the cool thing about trees spreading themselves is finding forests that you can see the ways of growth and the originating trees that likely caused it. My original concern was that the trees would grow in a viral fashion and would become hard to contain. It then of course occurred to me that something in real life is actually in a fashion mimicked in game; when there isn't enough space above a sapling it won't sprout into an actual tree. Of course, if the plan is to create a more in depth tree spreading method, it might be a good idea to make saplings something you get artificially by taking a branch cutting with a knife or axe (like fruit trees) and otherwise have trees drop seeds and nuts to actually spread themselves. Some of those nuts would be edible, and you would typically get a whole lot more seeds to plant new trees this way rather than taking cutting for saplings, at the expense of it taking longer for them to grow in game.

[Artuga 15]

I think the cool thing about trees spreading themselves is finding forests that you can see the ways of growth and the originating trees that likely caused it. My original concern was that the trees would grow in a viral fashion and would become hard to contain. It then of course occurred to me that something in real life is actually in a fashion mimicked in game; when there isn't enough space above a sapling it won't sprout into an actual tree. Of course, if the plan is to create a more in depth tree spreading method, it might be a good idea to make saplings something you get artificially by taking a branch cutting with a knife or axe (like fruit trees) and otherwise have trees drop seeds and nuts to actually spread themselves. Some of those nuts would be edible, and you would typically get a whole lot more seeds to plant new trees this way rather than taking cutting for saplings, at the expense of it taking longer for them to grow in game.

Something like this would be really nice, as it would give the game world more natural change as time goes by. It would be really nice to have trees spread naturally over time, as well as giving the player a more controlled way to obtain saplings without having to mindlessly cut down every single leafblock before felling the trees to ensure you have saplings for new trees. However, i think using shears to cut the branches would make more sense in order to manufacture new saplings. this could also be used to allow you to form the trees to your liking as they grow, allowing you to use trees for decorating your gardens/lawns more efficiently. (maybe make shears work like chisels but on leafblocks? this would also let you make sculptures/hedges)

[Kimbblesrath 503]

-snip-

See this thread I made. It will allow for life-sized sequoias(over 200 m tall! )

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/2134-cubic-chunks-in-tfc/page__pid__31282__st__40#entry31282

[Artuga 15]

See this thread I made. It will allow for life-sized sequoias(over 200 m tall! )

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/2134-cubic-chunks-in-tfc/page__pid__31282__st__40#entry31282

i've seen your thread (and voted in it ) it would truly be awesome!

To get back on track: if we focus on tree growth size and speed through gradual growth, would this still mean rewriting base code? Or would the main issue be having the trees start out like in the way fruit trees currently do? Does anyone know?

[transcengopher 349]

To get back on track: if we focus on tree growth size and speed through gradual growth, would this still mean rewriting base code? Or would the main issue be having the trees start out like in the way fruit trees currently do? Does anyone know?

I'd say truly growing tree should be handled like fruit trees do right now with trunk going through several stages before it's reached regular wood block (if that's a thing in new system).