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Guest Blue_Beluga

Alchemy

20 posts in this topic

Since people are so wrapped up in adding magic to gems (amongst other magic stuff) I thought i'd suggest something for a different but equally important aspect of magic,

Alchemy

I feel potions were a great addition to vannilla, and would improve TFCraft also. This is how I would implement it,

Potions would work like meals. In each new world you'd need different magical reagents for every potion. This would mean it would make sense to write down potion recipes. When the kingdoms update comes, people may feel it easier to trade with alchemists for potions than try for themselves.

Variety

Potions could have one to five effects on them. Each would be of varying lengths for each recipe. Depending on the amount of reagents added would more or less decide how many effects that recipe would carry.

Brewing

Brewing stands would no longer be used. Instead brewing would be done in cauldrons and crucibles. You'd fill up the cauldron with as much water as you want. Then toss in some ingredients. If it recognizes it as a recipe the cauldron will change a random colour and appear to bubble. Depending on how many buckets of water you put in there, is how many potions you will get. Just right click with an empty bottle to get the potion.

Bottling

There should be more variety in bottles. For example,

Vials - Counts as half a bottle. Each potion effect is halved. Duration is halved.

Big Bottle - Double a bottle. Can be drank twice.

Flask - 5x a bottle. Can be drank five times.

Round Bottle - Makes the potion a splash potion.

All of these bottles would be hard to make, and would would need to be worked into shape through glassworking (if it's ever added)

Hope you liked the suggestion, tell me what you think below!

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I'm not entirely sure why we'd really need multiple sizes of bottles. Whether or not it's "hard" to make, people will probably only ever use the largest ones available because sand is very easy to get. I don't see why we'd need to turn bottles into some convoluted thing, honestly... Unless, for some reason, certain potions could only reside in certain shapes of bottle; still, way convoluted, not very believable.

I'm almost certain that this has been suggested before, but I still like the idea. I probably wouldn't ever bother with potions, but it's still kinda neat, I guess.

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Since people are so wrapped up in adding magic to gems (amongst other magic stuff) I thought i'd suggest something for a different but equally important aspect of magic,

Alchemy

This part is good, but potions must not be overpowered.

Variety

Good this part. And if potions have different effects depending on how much time they have been in the cauldron or crucible?

Brewing

This part lacks of something. Why don't you use the different bottles to distill, mix and cook different potions?

Bottling

There should be more variety in bottles. For example,

Vials - Counts as half a bottle. Each potion effect is halved. Duration is halved.

Big Bottle - Double a bottle. Can be drank twice.

Flask - 5x a bottle. Can be drank five times.

Round Bottle - Makes the potion a splash potion.

These bottles, as what I said before, could be used to make the potions, not to store them. Apart the flask, because it's a good idea.

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Since people are so wrapped up in adding magic to gems (amongst other magic stuff) I thought i'd suggest something for a different but equally important aspect of magic,

Alchemy

This part is good, but potions must not be overpowered.

Variety

Good this part. And if potions have different effects depending on how much time they have been in the cauldron or crucible?

Brewing

This part lacks of something. Why don't you use the different bottles to distill, mix and cook different potions?

Bottling

There should be more variety in bottles. For example,

Vials - Counts as half a bottle. Each potion effect is halved. Duration is halved.

Big Bottle - Double a bottle. Can be drank twice.

Flask - 5x a bottle. Can be drank five times.

Round Bottle - Makes the potion a splash potion.

These bottles, as what I said before, could be used to make the potions, not to store them. Apart the flask, because it's a good idea.

I agree with a lot of what you're sayings, and the brewing could be fleshed out a lot. Perhaps the brewing stand could be brought back, but instead of brewing potions it mixes them together? I also like the idea of potions being more potent when left in a cauldron. This could be an interesting mechanic. Leave it too short, not potent enough, leave it too long it may lose potency, or even gain negative effects.

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Does anyone remember how potions originally were intended to work in vanilla?

It was about perfect, you couldn't exactly predict recipes before you tried them, and you could add in as many ingredients as you wanted, forever, it just kept changing the recipe in a specific way(in the code, not really completely visibly). Basically it was slightly obscure but once you experiment it would have consistent results, and if it wasn't for the fact you could just check the wiki for the best recipes with X, it would have been perfect, to solve that it could actually change by seed, so on each world the alchemists are able to do research for themselves, likely keeping it private so they can get the best potions easily, but rivals could figure out more efficient recipes and thus be able to compete for less, competition is wonderful!

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I saw the title and was all excited and then i looked at the actual topic

Sigh...why is it people these days confuse Alchemy with Potion-making?

Alchemy is the art/science of changing one material into something else of equivalent mass/value, yknow with the fancy transmutation circles and stuff

Brewing potions is not the same as alchemy, because in brewing, you just mix ingredients together to get potions

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I saw the title and was all excited and then i looked at the actual topic

Sigh...why is it people these days confuse Alchemy with Potion-making?

Alchemy is the art/science of changing one material into something else of equivalent mass/value, yknow with the fancy transmutation circles and stuff

Brewing potions is not the same as alchemy, because in brewing, you just mix ingredients together to get potions

Dear Srgnoodles, maybe you're seeing too much of full metal alchemist.

Sure many alchemist believed in the philosopher's stone but saying that that was their objective and purpose is way too shallow.

Let me explain, alchemy was the start of chemestry involving a lot of religion and mystic beliefs, it was a protoscience based on experimentation without the scientific method.

Brewing was indeed part of alchemy, heard of the elixir of life?

Alchemy declined with Robert Boyle, who started studying the chemestry of alchemy based on the scientific method and not supersticion anymore. Alchemy was buried by Lavoisier and John Dalton.

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I'm not entirely sure why we'd really need multiple sizes of bottles. Whether or not it's "hard" to make, people will probably only ever use the largest ones available because sand is very easy to get. I don't see why we'd need to turn bottles into some convoluted thing, honestly... Unless, for some reason, certain potions could only reside in certain shapes of bottle; still, way convoluted, not very believable.

I'm almost certain that this has been suggested before, but I still like the idea. I probably wouldn't ever bother with potions, but it's still kinda neat, I guess.

Smaller bottles would be useful to shop owners.

Yeah you'd only ever use flasks for yourself to save on inventory space, but others might not be able to afford that much potion at once with your prices ;)

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I couldnt hit the like button enough noodles. I was going though this thread and wanted to say the same damn thing.

Alchemy, while it has touched on solutions and the like, is NOT potion making. that is a HUGE flaw in game lore. Alchemy was about the pursuit of turning lead into gold, and similar. It was also the pursuit of everlasting life. It had nothing to do with eye of newt, dander of bat, tail of child. Nothing. Aside from my rage at how this topic is so badly misnamed, I have written up something very much similar to this. I could continue and make a multi topic walk through of how every element of alchemy, herboligy, and more work. Or I can most likely be a lazy bum and never get around to it.

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Alchemy, while it has touched on solutions and the like, is NOT potion making. that is a HUGE flaw in game lore.

Alchemy was about the pursuit of turning lead into gold, and similar. It was also the pursuit of everlasting life.

Alchemy while has touched the pursuit of turning lead into gold, and similar is NOT equivalent exchange.

Alchemy was the pusuit of knowledge of the natural world through a proto-chemestry.

See what I did there?

I will give more arguments about this since I know you will be stuborn.

"We have all been presented with the rather romanticised view of the venerable old alchemical philosopher huddling over his flasks of bubbling liquid immersed in his quest for the elusive philosophers' stone, a mere grain of which will change a mass of molten lead into the purest form of gold.

This image of the alchemist was one which developed relatively early on in the history of alchemy, but it became a very popular view in the 20th century and to most people this is almost all they know about the subject.

Another view that developed was that alchemists were mysterious adepts belonging to some secret society and exchanging messages in a coded form. They were even seen as having paranormal powers which enabled them to do all sorts of magical things and live to an extreme old age. Thus alchemists became confused in the popular imagination with the image of the magician.

These stereotypical views of alchemy do not really allow us to appreciate the breadth of alchemy and the various ways in which it inspired people over the centuries. This introductory section will, hopefully, let us gain a broader picture of this amazing subject.

Alchemy is a multifaceted subject. It is an early form of chemical technology exploring the nature of substances. It is also a philosophy of the cosmos and of mankind's place in the scheme of things. Alchemy developed an amazing language of emblematic symbolism which it used to explore the world. It had a strong philosophical basis, and many alchemists incorporated religious metaphor and spiritual matters into their alchemical ideas.

About four thousand printed books were issued from the 16th through to the late 18th centuries, exploring alchemy from a multiplicity of different perspectives. Many thousands of manuscripts, hand written works, letters, notes and commentaries exist in the libraries of Europe and North America, some beautifully illustrated with coloured images. Alchemy was thus, through the sheer volume of writings, influential throughout the early modern period. Its influence can often be seen in the work of writers, poets, and artists of the time.

In the 20th century, interest in alchemy was revived, following its decline and total eclipse in the 19th century. Today alchemy is often used as a catch word for obscure and enigmatic symbolism, or for the idea of spiritual transformation and inner change."

http://www.alchemywebsite.com/introduction.html

Do I have to go further?

Posted Image

Posted Image

Please inform yourself before posting again

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Stuff

woah there, sounds like your jimmies are full on rustled pal

we're not trying to get into a huge old thing about the technical definiton of a pseudo-science

what we're trying to say, is that although the main persuit of many alchemists might have been trying for the "elixer of life" or a "philosipher's stone" or transmutation of base metals into gold. they weren't exactly trying to make potions, honestly, most alchemists had no clue what the hell they were doing, they just messed with stuff and figured out what happened. they did however, discover many elements and alloys that hadn't been discovered untill then.

its just that theres a difference between what an Alchemist and an Apothecary does.

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woah there, sounds like your jimmies are full on rustled pal

we're not trying to get into a huge old thing about the technical definiton of a pseudo-science

what we're trying to say, is that although the main persuit of many alchemists might have been trying for the "elixer of life" or a "philosipher's stone" or transmutation of base metals into gold. they weren't exactly trying to make potions, honestly, most alchemists had no clue what the hell they were doing, they just messed with stuff and figured out what happened. they did however, discover many elements and alloys that hadn't been discovered untill then.

its just that theres a difference between what an Alchemist and an Apothecary does.

I just love these arguments, they make me search for more information and I learn much from them! hehe

"As alchemy became less and less commonly practiced, many alchemists found themselves with unusual skills that proved useful in other fields. With their knowledge of inorganic acids and salts, as well as of traditional herb cures, many alchemists became apothecaries.

Physicians, long accustomed to preparing their own drugs, gradually began to consult alchemists about prescriptions -- the beginning of the now common doctor-druggist relationship. In the 16th Century German engraving shown at left, a progressive physician consults an alchemist for a remedy. Most doctors of the time, however, were skeptical about the curative powers of alchemical potions, deeming them quack panaceas. The work many alchemists did while trying to discover the elixir of life led many into the field of medicine, and many became respected physicians in their own right.

From their scarecrow shape, mandrake roots were often depicted as human, as in the 15th Century French engraving. Fearing them while also prizing their narcotic effect, alchemists rooted them up with dogs in dead of night."

Ralph E. Lapp. Life Science Library: Matter. New York:Time Incorporated, 1965.

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P.S. When we figured out more about atoms, the philosophers stone basically went, ahem, poof.

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-snip-

-snip-

-snip-

Okay, okay, i think that's enough. That's not the reason why this post was made now was it? Someone can make mistakes when giving their thread a title... Please, take this discussion to a new thread, and let's discuss the actual thread here.

Now, about the thread... Well, honestly, what Wolf said before : and the poster already answered him, so... yeah, a +1/2 will be enough i guess. It could be better, but i honestly don't know what to add on this.

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P.S. When we figured out more about atoms, the philosophers stone basically went, ahem, poof.

There are two reasons that isn't true although scientists at the time didn't know this and therefore stopped researching. First off, the real philosophers stone was simply an invention made by Heron which essentially turned water into wine but not really it was a pneumatics trick so that when water was poured in the pressure would force wine out. Next atom to atom transaction are quite possible just difficult.

Edit: woops my bad I had always thought of the philosophers stone as a machine not a substance. Although not a substance but multiple and a bit of energy could do it.

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There are two reasons that isn't true although scientists at the time didn't know this and therefore stopped researching. First off, the real philosophers stone was simply an invention made by Heron which essentially turned water into wine but not really it was a pneumatics trick so that when water was poured in the pressure would force wine out. Next atom to atom transaction are quite possible just difficult.

I think he ment the alchemists stopped researching or beleiving in that.

And you know, even though fusion is possible, I don't think it is achievable with alchemy... Maybe if you consider the Sun a Philosopher's stone, it can only turn hydrogen as far as iron, with the reactions/elements in between, of course... Let's not go into that, right?

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although scientists at the time didn't know this and therefore stopped researching.

I agree though this isn't something necessary to get into, my apologies. However alchemy regardless of it how possible it would be nice for the non-realistic but still believable part of the mod.
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However alchemy regardless of it how possible it would be nice for the non-realistic but still believable part of the mod.

Agreed.

Although I don't feel like reworking an idea that has tons of mods out there should be the way to go, when I see equivalent exchange thinggy I just think "Again?". Potions and brewing are nice, if we go into alchemy there is muuuuuuuuuuuch more to see than that, alchemy in skyrim was nice, only nice... simply giving buffs is just too shallow. Dunks idea of adding languages could make this idea take off.

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Wow that was oddly amazing timing. I just finish watching an interview of Azanor who showed multiple times the use of another language in his new research/transmutation mechanic. Wow that's weird. Anyways though that does excite me that Dunk has an idea for it what thread was that?

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