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mvdhoning

feed the beast mod launcher?

61 posts in this topic

I think what he means is if TFC ever will be part of a modpack. packed together with other mods.

The answer to that is unfortunatly still unlikely! Bioxx pretty much assraped the way regular minecraft generates its worlds! so if there ever is a mod that, say, add something that spawns or generates in the world. that mod will probably not work. NEI, rei's minimap and smart moving are three mods that i can confirm will work with TFC.

IT WOULD BE FUCKING AWESOME IF IT DID THOUGH!!!

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Perfect TFC modpack for FTB:

Smart moving, TFC, NEI, and Rei's minimap

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Perfect TFC modpack for FTB:

Smart moving, TFC, NEI, and Rei's minimap

it's really easy to install them separatly though. i think a lot of people could use a little challenge in their life and learn how to do things themselves.

it's only when the mod count starts flying over 10 that i think it warrants for a mod pack. i spent almost half a day figuring out how to get direwolf's collection of mods to work.

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it's really easy to install them separatly though. i think a lot of people could use a little challenge in their life and learn how to do things themselves.

it's only when the mod count starts flying over 10 that i think it warrants for a mod pack. i spent almost half a day figuring out how to get direwolf's collection of mods to work.

The point of getting TFC onto FTB isn't the easiness of installing these mods; it's the popularity that will come from TFC appearing inside the launcher itself, giving incentive for anyone with FTB to try out TFC
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Popularity? in TFC?

oh god help us all.

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I actually just posted this in a different thread just beforehand. I don't anyone notcied but anyways in that thread we discuss the technic launcher instead which was overruled for what seemed to be hatred of technic and not launchers. Personally I like this a lot but we need Dunk or Bioxx's opinion. I'm sure there is something we are missing. I was going to suggest waiting a while until both TFC and FTB were more stable. See if it really could work or not.

Warfighter is right although more people means more explaining as far as I know it means more money for Bioxx however this very well could be the thing I don't know it certainly seems like more donaters is good but I may be wrong. Either way popularity is what keeps this mod running so I wouldn't hate it to much if I were you.

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Yeah, I hate technic too. It's full of bugs, outdated, etc, just horrible. Yogbox is just as bad. In fact, so far FTB is the ONLY modpack + launcher I've ever liked.

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Technic has been fine as far as bugs, I don't care for the way... pretty much any of the mods interact but it's at least functional, the yogbox was atrociously buggy as much as I'd had hopes for it, it seemed a little more low key in the actual choice of mods, more ways to play than build.

FTB seems perfect so far as I can tell, still don't care for the way most of the mods work but I've yet to find a bug.

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I'd, personally, would really rather not see TFC included in any launcher program. At least for our server, there would be issues with getting users to use FTB, or Tekkit, it doesn't really matter which really, users dislike both for various reasons. I also really don't like the idea of TFC getting placed into FTB, when you do you have to play by their rules and standards.

Honestly, with how Forge is right now, installing TFC is really rather easy. I do not understand why adding an additional layer on top of this is a good thing, you do understand that if MC updates, even if TFC updates, if FTB launcher isn't updated, you are kind of shit out of luck. That is how all the major launchers work.

The next reason I think this isn't a smart move is that it is going to pull TFC into the massive flame war between FTB and Tekkit users. You may not think this, but choosing one or the other would cause people to flood these forums to bitch and nit pick.

Then there is the issue in using the launcher for just one mod, I really don't see that go over very well. Again, TFC is incredibly easy to install by itself, sure there are a lot of mods that some users like to instal alongside it (Rei's Minimap, Smart Moving, etc), but not everyone uses those mods. If you did package those mods with TFC, then TFC is anchored to their development cycles, you would also have to get permissions to use those mods in a pack as well..

Finally, whenever MC's API does eventually make it out, Grum and EvilSeph have already confirmed that they plan to allow clients to download necessary files when entering a modded server. This effectively would make launchers more or less obsolete.

This is what they seem to have currently planned in that regard, according to Grum:

  • a plugins name is unique (and can contain no spaces and only 'simple characters')
  • a plugin has a version
  • a plugin is a jar

    • the plugin jar could perhaps contain a file with meta information (could be 100% optional)
  • plugins will be loaded when loading a 'game' (so you select the world and play it)
  • plugins will not be able to unload/reload (configuration can obviously)
  • the client has little to say (bar conveying which input it gets) thus 'cheating' with it will be significantly harder (sure xray you can still do, and lots we can do against that)
  • servers will not 'feed' the client plugins, they will tell which name/version is required and the client will download that from a central repository

    • this could later be extended to allow either direct download from a server and or a thirdparty location (but not initially and perhaps never)
    • obviously the storage will have hashes of the data and those hashes will be checked for whatever gets downloaded
  • any code running on the client (if any at all) should be severely sandboxed)
We will need ingame menus to be able to easily control plugins, updating, reinstalling, uninstalling and obviously selecting which ones you want to run for a particular world.

In short, I understand that people are excited over FTB since it is a new and shiny toy, and I've noticed that a lot of the excitement is carrying a lot of anti-tekkit mentality, but honestly this mod does not need any of that. It proposes too many issues and opens not only the community to a lot of problems, but could be detrimental to development.

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I'd, personally, would really rather not see TFC included in any launcher program. At least for our server, there would be issues with getting users to use FTB, or Tekkit, it doesn't really matter which really, users dislike both for various reasons. I also really don't like the idea of TFC getting placed into FTB, when you do you have to play by their rules and standards.

Honestly, with how Forge is right now, installing TFC is really rather easy. I do not understand why adding an additional layer on top of this is a good thing, you do understand that if MC updates, even if TFC updates, if FTB launcher isn't updated, you are kind of shit out of luck. That is how all the major launchers work.

The next reason I think this isn't a smart move is that it is going to pull TFC into the massive flame war between FTB and Tekkit users. You may not think this, but choosing one or the other would cause people to flood these forums to bitch and nit pick.

Then there is the issue in using the launcher for just one mod, I really don't see that go over very well. Again, TFC is incredibly easy to install by itself, sure there are a lot of mods that some users like to instal alongside it (Rei's Minimap, Smart Moving, etc), but not everyone uses those mods. If you did package those mods with TFC, then TFC is anchored to their development cycles, you would also have to get permissions to use those mods in a pack as well..

Finally, whenever MC's API does eventually make it out, Grum and EvilSeph have already confirmed that they plan to allow clients to download necessary files when entering a modded server. This effectively would make launchers more or less obsolete.

This is what they seem to have currently planned in that regard, according to Grum:

  • a plugins name is unique (and can contain no spaces and only 'simple characters')
  • a plugin has a version
  • a plugin is a jar

    • the plugin jar could perhaps contain a file with meta information (could be 100% optional)
  • plugins will be loaded when loading a 'game' (so you select the world and play it)
  • plugins will not be able to unload/reload (configuration can obviously)
  • the client has little to say (bar conveying which input it gets) thus 'cheating' with it will be significantly harder (sure xray you can still do, and lots we can do against that)
  • servers will not 'feed' the client plugins, they will tell which name/version is required and the client will download that from a central repository

    • this could later be extended to allow either direct download from a server and or a thirdparty location (but not initially and perhaps never)
    • obviously the storage will have hashes of the data and those hashes will be checked for whatever gets downloaded
  • any code running on the client (if any at all) should be severely sandboxed)
We will need ingame menus to be able to easily control plugins, updating, reinstalling, uninstalling and obviously selecting which ones you want to run for a particular world.

In short, I understand that people are excited over FTB since it is a new and shiny toy, and I've noticed that a lot of the excitement is carrying a lot of anti-tekkit mentality, but honestly this mod does not need any of that. It proposes too many issues and opens not only the community to a lot of problems, but could be detrimental to development.

Users with TFC can join a server whether they are doing so via FTB or the normal Minecraft launcher. As long as the client has the same mods as the server, all should be fine. FTB wont set any rules or standards to play by with TFC. The TFC in FTB will be the same TFC as one manually installed. The benefit from having it in FTB is the popularity increase. Users on your server are also not forced to use FTB for TFC and nor are you. This simply grants more exposure to those who may not know about TFC.

Tekkit is a disgrace to the modding community and should never be mentioned in comparison to FTB because FTB is far superior. FTB authors make much more effort to update mods on time than Tekkit do. Tekkit, while speculated, didn't get permission from mod authors to publicly release said mods within the pack. Since TFC doesn't play well with content or generation mods, the only additions would be things like smart movement, inv tweaks, and rei's (which all get updated very quickly)

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Users with TFC can join a server whether they are doing so via FTB or the normal Minecraft launcher. As long as the client has the same mods as the server, all should be fine. FTB wont set any rules or standards to play by with TFC. The TFC in FTB will be the same TFC as one manually installed. The benefit from having it in FTB is the popularity increase. Users on your server are also not forced to use FTB for TFC and nor are you. This simply grants more exposure to those who may not know about TFC.

Tekkit is a disgrace to the modding community and should never be mentioned in comparison to FTB because FTB is far superior. FTB authors make much more effort to update mods on time than Tekkit do. Tekkit, while speculated, didn't get permission from mod authors to publicly release said mods within the pack. Since TFC doesn't play well with content or generation mods, the only additions would be things like smart movement, inv tweaks, and rei's (which all get updated very quickly)

Annnd thank you for proving my point about FTB and Tekkit bickering. That last bit of your post really wasn't needed (as I wasn't supporting Tekkit nor FTB, but against both) and is also filled with the same false b/s I hear whenever this argument comes up. :)

My argument is that there really is no reason to use FTB (or any launcher really) at all. It does not provide any benefit to those running the server, TFC isn't hard to install or manage, and probably early next year FTB and the majority of the installers are going to be at the very least obsolete by the new system in place by Mojang, if not broken by it entirely.

I have yet to see a solid argument for getting the mod on FTB, I honestly do not think that "publicity" is a good reason, I think TFC is pretty well known and the fact that it doesn't play well with others is probably going to discourage any new users that would be gained by FTB as the majority use it for the technical mod package.

And either way, isn't FTB set up to allow users to add mods via the launcher interface? Why does it need to be officially part of a packaged provided by FTB?

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I don't know if any of you remember this or ever saw this but here is something Bioxx said in this thread. it's the last post: http://terrafirmacra...ch__1#entry8641

Also, I do not support modpacks of any kind. This includes technic

As to MDub's installer, I am not against automated installers as long as the mod zips or not distributed along with it and the source is available for interested parties to look at. I have thought about doing something like that at some point anyways.

That said, MultiMC is extremely easy to use. There is no real NEED for a one click solution. Maybe some wants because a few folks can't be bothered to read 4 lines of instructions, but not a need for one.

That pretty much squashes inclusion of TFC in FTB, just thought I'd throw that out there.

An installer for TFC, while I'm not really against it, there would have to still be a manual install option for me to support the idea.

Also, Bioxx's last point is a very good one; TFC is easy enough already, and with something like MultiMC it is even easier. Personally I never like things like MultiMC that install my mods for me, as it's harder to really know what is going on and how the mods are going to work together for me, I like being able to see what goes where so I can track problems down more easily. This is probably because I'm very used to modding Minecraft manually, I started on a mac which makes it more challenging and time consuming than it has to be. After 6 months of playing MC on a mac I got a PC and the simplicity of installing mods compared to mac is all I personally need, it seems so easy to me. Anyways, point is, mods aren't hard, and there are much harder mods to install than TFC, so just roll up your sleeves and figure it out if you haven't already but at least for now you are on your own as to making sure 3 files make it to the right places. If you have serious issues you can always go to the support forum, but seriously guys, its not that hard.

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Ypu can manually add and remove mods in FTB launcher, so you can save a modpack for TFC to launch with smartmoving, rei's minimap and others, without any tech mods. FTB installs forge and all jar mods without fearing to break anything.

Ed- i think TFC never goes in the mod pack itself cause many "imcompabilities" on mods

ed2- i mihgt make a little pic montage to how make TFC pack if enough interest??

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See, that I can understand. I just don't understand people asking for it to be added officially to FTB, I have no idea how you would go about doing that and really don't think it would help with anything.

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for installing TFC, i think MultiMC is better :) Inside FTB modpack are only mods what authors gave permissions, it does not prevent to install any other mods.

edit- And yes even if TFC is easy to install, only Forge and Player API going to JAR, and TFC.zip to mods folder(after first start with Forge), BUT there's lots of people still getting it wrong -_-?

Edited by Wicc3R1
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I personally think Terrafirmacraft is a cut above anything else out there as far as mods go. I may sound biased, but think about it. No other mod has taken the minecraft world, turned it inside out, kicked it in the teeth and set it into something that is only minecraft in appearance. Packing it with other mods would do it no justice. If you want to use NEI, Backpacks, Inventory Tweaks, or whatever else, that should be left to the preference of the player. You don't need a modpack to do it.

And you definitely don't need to sell yourself short to be a part of a "bigger" community. Great things have come out of the underground. This mod is one of them.

I back Bioxx %1,000,000 on that.

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These are all great points and although they all make sense minus the Technic vs. FTB argument I have yet to see anyone argue for Technic. It is dying, unless something crazy happens.

This pack will die as soon as the first "true" modpack comes out. As in mod joining between items recipes and concepts for better continuity. Here is to wishing they can figure that out. These true packs also withstand the API.

Now here is why I want TFC on the launcher. Advertisement, nothing else the more people we reach the easier Bioxx's life becomes through donations and downloads he wouldn't get without it. Not to mention access to a larger community which means more ideas.

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These are all great points and although they all make sense minus the Technic vs. FTB argument I have yet to see anyone argue for Technic. It is dying, unless something crazy happens.

This pack will die as soon as the first "true" modpack comes out. As in mod joining between items recipes and concepts for better continuity. Here is to wishing they can figure that out. These true packs also withstand the API.

Now here is why I want TFC on the launcher. Advertisement, nothing else the more people we reach the easier Bioxx's life becomes through donations and downloads he wouldn't get without it. Not to mention access to a larger community which means more ideas.

A little off topic, but Technic isn't dead. The reason they haven't updated in a while is that they make sure the main list of mods they want to use are not only updated fully, but are updated for bug fixes as well. They literally move as fast as the slowest mod is developed. The reason they are still on 1.25 is because RP2 is still a major part of Technic and RP2 was never released for 1.3, hell it still isn't released. What FTB did was decide to release the pack anyway and just add the last few mods that are still in development in when they get done. I can see this being a problem with certain mods like RP2 that do world generation and this is exactly one of the reasons they are holding up pushing out an update, they don't want to force users to generate a new world just because they wanted to get out there fast. They don't care about FTB, they don't see them as competition, they just do their own thing. The reason no one argues for Technic/Tekkit is because it has been asked for in the past, just as FTB is being asked for now, and the answer was no. *shrug*

I don't think mod packs have to "survive" the API, really right now the only reason launcher based mod back exist is to bridge the gap in functionality that is missing from the vanilla system. The Minecraft development team acknowledges this missing infrastructure and has stated plans on fixing this and have actually laid out a very well thought out way of doing so. When this gets implemented, there will be no need for separate launchers that wont be something really petty that I am not going to get into.

I really do not think that TFC would get anything positive, let alone "advertisement" out of including it in a mod pack. Menoch makes great points here and I strongly agree with him that the mod stands just fine on its own two feet. Hell, if it didn't, we wouldn't be here today. If advertisement was really a thing that has Bioxx worried (and I highly doubt that), there are much better ways of getting interest, the main one I can think of is updated mod spotlights by "big name" youtube users. And honestly, that is the only reason there is so much hype about FTB. The mods included in it are nothing new to older mod packs, it is just that there are, what, three or four "big name" youtube users in the minecraft community that are pimping the hell out of FTB? If I remember correctly, Direwolf20 did a spotlight forever ago, ask him to do an updated one, bam, there is your advertisement. However, again, I don't even think that is needed, everyone I've talked to who knows anything about modded minecraft has played or at least heard about TFC, that is at least a good 200 users from the server I help moderate on, not including the ones in other forums besides this one or the MC Curse forums.

I also doubt that "larger community with ideas" is something that this forums would enjoy much. The one thing I like about this forums is that unlike the Curse ones, it isn't completely full of children and hasn't become a complete echo chamber. Now think about the current reactions of people in the Suggestions sub-forum suggesting things without searching for it beforehand or looking in that massive thread containing a list of already discussed topics. Now think about if a huge influx of people showed up to do just that, or to plague the Discussion sub-forums with "How do I" topics, there is a large group of people on these forums who would literally shit themselves in frustration. FTB would also not guarantee donations at all, in fact I would say it would detract donations as users using the launcher would be more inclined to donate through the launcher meaning those donations go somewhere else, since they wouldn't be directed to TFC's front page for information anymore.

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i asked if tfc could/would be included in ftb as they support third party mod packs as long as the mods owners give permission and the fact that inclusion as a third party mod pack could increase the popularity of tfc. Some relatives shy away from trying as they dont trust themselves fidling around with the original minecraft files. And my relatives are not on their with that i suspect. However after playing it on my pc i end up installing it on their pc and now updating it for them :-( So easy inclusion as a third party mod pack in ftb would be a win win situation, giving me some more free time :-).

And NO i am not suggesting tfc to be included in the default ftb mod pack. And NO i did not want to start another tekkit discussion.

But as i saw someon quote that bioxx does not support mod pack i am afraid an easy way to install/update tfc is not going to happen.

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I never said Technic was dead I said it was dying. People are slowly moving over to FTB as they here about it thus the player-base is slowly "dying". I said nothing about launchers honestly I could care less watch vanilla says they are doing I have learned they aren't very trustworthy. Not to mention I never even said anything about launchers. I said modpacks would survive through as some people call them meta-mods. A large mod used to better connect the singular mods of the pack the meta-mods would probably be exclusive thus requiring the download of the pack. Packs will survive, I promise you that.

Does this work like this? Are we surviving? Of course we are! But tell me sir do you like more money? Or do want to stay with exact wage you have right now? Most people answer yes to that question and my guess is so does Bioxx. I could be wrong. I'm sure Dunk could use some extra cash also. We are fine but we could be better. Singular advertisement is okay but the more advertisement the more people we draw. When these extra people donate we get money we may have never been able to reach without the extra display. I see it like putting a candy display up in a grocery store rather than around back all by itself. Sure people look back there but most people come in the front door. Additional the best part of this is if/when this pack goes down the drain all of those who discovered our mod will come here to download it.

Don't worry there are plenty of ways to fix a crowded forum...

My favorite the "you must build up this many points to post here" rule. Every action is allowed only if you have enough points maybe liking something takes five, posting in discussion takes twenty, posting in suggestions take fifty and so on maybe even with a top secret section only available to those with at least a thousand points not even visible to the rest. At first only one forum would be available and that would be introductions. Everyone makes an intro thread in this page and then receives a short questionnaire about forum rules. The first two points are for posting an introduction this allows you to see all areas besides top secret the third point is from that post being approved by moderator who will then post the questionnaire on that thread after saying welcome a couple times. After the answer post has been posted that is another point and the final point comes from your answer being approved. The answer being disapproved will subtract a point. At three points you have access to all forums except top secret and can look through the posts but can only post in Questions, Bugs and Show-off. A bad question or bug report could be disapproved by a moderator to send them back to the questionnaire. You get a points for donating, voting accumulating likes, posting, being approved, PMs (access after fifty), and just being a moderator/coder/texturer.

Of course I am missing a fact that I am unsure of does Bioxx get money from downloads(probably less) for someone downloading the launcher/pack? If not, that would screw this idea over. I'm surprised no one has brought it up yet. Maybe I just accident ignored whoever said it. If so my apologies.

Edit: The Bioxx post says no packs, he doesn't want to be limited by being tied to someone. The launcher isn't the same thing he could still code how he wants.

Double Edit:Your post got deleted by the moderators because you didn't have permissions. They certainly are efficient aren't they I tried to double post to bump and thread and they merged it before I got back to look at it.

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Kimbbles, Menoch and I are actually in the beginning stages of working on a 3d short for TFC right now. I know that's not a big name youtuber, but any (positive) videos are going to be good, especially if they are well done, like I think ours will be, especially with some of Menoch's music :)

Anyways, I don't think TFC needs to be put in a launcher just so we get some advertising, there are better and more effective ways to go about that. One thing a launcher would detract from is the sense of community behind this mod, when all you have to do is click "TFC" in a launcher to play it removes any need of going to the website to download the mod, and through that, maybe checking out the forums and/or wiki. Essentially, TFC would become that mod "that you get through the FTB launcher" instead of a really awesome mod with one of the best Dev teams around and a forum which users have a place where they can make suggestions that actually GET SEEN AND READ by the devs and then taken into consideration. You think someone launching up TFC for the first time with the FTB launcher would bother looking up the website and forums for this mod unless they had some kind of issue, short answer is no, they wouldn't, I wouldn't, you probably wouldn't. If you know nothing about the mod but the name, and all you have to do is click a button to play it without any previous set-up would you REALLY look it up first? Would you even consider the possibility that this mod has a full and functioning good looking website, and then entertain the possibility that this mod you've heard nothing about before actually has a forum that isn't like sitting in an empty room talking to yourself? No, that's why people need to come here, they build a connection to this mod that is more than "I click this button on the FTB launcher to play a harder version of minecraft", If they are clever or started by playing on a server or were brought into by a friend who also uses FTB to play TFC they may never know this website and forums exist until they are too entrenched in their FTB ways to ever have a reason to come here.

So yeah, /rant, but I think we could do better than a launcher in terms of advertising :)

(writing this post made me think of that "ABC 123" song but instead it was "FTB TFC" :P)

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While all of the assumptions as to how Bioxx Would feel toward the Ftb launcher, and all of the "if people can't figure out how to install TFC they need to die and they suck to much to figure out TFC anyway" is great and all that...

I do not think that a TFC modpack on the launcher would be a bad thing with some assumptions, like the pack is maintained by someone who very closly colaborates with Bioxx, if not by Bioxx himself. Mostly to the end that the very spirit of TFC is maintained.

I also think that it would currently be premature to put TFC in a pack with the current state of development, that being massive changes every couple weeks.

If Bioxx declines the addition of TFC then that needs to be respected, firstly its his mod, and secondly slowpoke won't let any mods into. FTB modpack that done have express permission. Past posts indicate that Bioxx would in general be apposed to any pack of sorts, especially technic which this isnt. Technic = stolen and poorly slapped togather mods, FTB= almost a collaboration between the mod devs for a superior experience.

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Technic = stolen and poorly slapped togather mods, FTB= almost a collaboration between the mod devs for a superior experience.

This is what i agree, Technic/tekkit guys slammed mods together and distributed em without permissions by mod author, FTB is made entirely authorizated by authors and even helped each others to make mods work together as a pack. TFC is highly modifying game files so i don't see or need it to became part to any packs soon, or never. TFC is currently a Mod folder mod so also installing it is easy. Player API and Forge have their own sites where you get lots of help, even youtube has installation intructions.

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