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1SDAN

Flags Make War and Picking Makes Grief

23 posts in this topic

Sorry this is not in the kingdoms mega-thread but there is not any kingdoms subforums, and I recently noticed said mega-thread is WAY too large and confusing.

Maybe chests and other functional items could have locks put on them. And flags take a respectable amount of resources to craft, (a circle of paper and an ink sac to make the symbol itself and a double metal ingot smelted for the stand)

Flags then make it so that as long as you have been in an area long enough, you become affiliated with the nation. This means the one who placed the nation's first flag that is still standing can see:

  • exactly where you are (if you are within national borders)
  • what, where and who are placing new funcional items
  • what, where and who is locking stuff,
  • and what is being taken, made and put in funtional items.
all via waypoints. In return, said person has access to all locks owned by the nation within the flag's influence range.

You can capture flags by first right clicking on it. At this point you pick it up and a flag stand is left in it's place. The effects stays and all who are affiliated with the nation can see a waypoint of your name and under it is the words "Traitor". You must take the flag out of it's influence to destroy the flag stand and make your waypoint disappear. This allows you to take over entire nations if you are a skilled tactician. Also, this makes flags helpful, but not game breaking. It's only use would be to keep watch over your subjects and allow others to use national chests.

Miniflags are crafted by putting 1 ink sac and a piece of paper in your CT. Then place it and a lock in your CT to make it.

Lock picking could be like a mini-game and different locks can be crafted be metal-smiths to make opening them harder than just clicking on them. If you craft a minifalg and lock together, it creates a community lock that locks it from non-citizens.

Now for locks and lock-picking:

Locks protect your stuff UNLESS someone tries to pick your lock. In that case, "chinks" will start to be heard in the nearby vicinity AND if you are part of a nation in which the picked block is influenced, you will get a waypoint saying THIEF and the thief's name.If you are punched while lock-picking, your lock-picking items are dropped as a block similar to redstone next to you. Anyone can then right click said block to pick the tools up.

You also cannot pick while the placer is not online for balance reasons. But if said placer has been inactive for at least one week, the lock can be picked at any time. This promotes devotion to the server and also makes it so that a block cannot stay unpickable for an extended period of time. The lock-picking mechanic gives griefing a high-risk/high-reward status. And can even allow for trained assassins. There are two types of locks:

Key lock: Requires a key, the more things to turn in the lock, the more the lock-picker has to use his metal stick thingy to turn. Finding and turning takes about 10 seconds if you know what your doing. You simply need to click, and move the mouse around. When you find a small groove (it makes a chink sound when it hits a wall) put the extending end into the groove and let go of the mouse button.

To make the main lock, you must first weld some tier 3 or higher metals into two double-ingots and a single ingot. Then, take one double-ingot and weld it into a lock half with the lock-body half blueprint (Made using a 3x5 rectangle of ink without the very edge corner inks included. Fill it in while leaving a 1x2 hole in the middle).

After this, you now must do the same for a second half. Weld the two halves together to finally the lock. Next, take the lock and put it into the blueprint slot and an iron ingot in it's appropriate slot. Weld and you should get a key that can unlock ONLY that lock.

Right-click on any functional block to subsequently lock it. To use the block, right click on it with the key in your hands.

To make a key-lock picking device, one must have already smelted a lock-pick with a tier 3 or higher ingot and the blueprint of said tool. (5x1 line of ink with an extra ink 1 space above the far right ink) When you right click on a key-locked block, a GUI comes up. You must move the mouse around to position the pick's angle. When you cannot make it angle towards one position and hear a click, you have hit a wall. All you need to do is find three grooves in the wall and click. This can take a skilled lock-pick at least 15 seconds to pick. When successfully picked, you gain the lock and said lock obviously disappears from the block.

Turn lock: To make the lock, you must first make the plans for the dial and the switch, two lock-base halves, a double-ingot of tier 3 or higher, and 1 metal sheet per switch. The plan for the dial is simply a 3x3 square of ink, filled in and placing one ink outside of the middle of each side. Meanwhile, the plan for the switch is a 3x3 square of ink, filled in and missing the top-middle ink.

Next, use the double-ingot and the dial blueprint to create the dial itself. Afterwards, you must weld switches using the blueprint and a metal sheet. Weld the switches along with one half of the lock-base to increase it's durability. This is used to represent how many switches are in it. Continue to weld to said half until you have the desired amount of switches (Max: 5)

Weld the two halves to make a turn-lock-base with said durability. (You can only use one half with switches in it) Finally weld the dial and the turn-lock-base together to make the turn-lock. Place it as usual, but now you only need to right-click on the block to use it.

To pick the lock, you first need a stethoscope. To make it, you will need a listening ball plan, (One plus of ink) a stethoscope-listener plan, (One 5x1 line of ink with a 3x1 line on top) and three sheets of tier 3 or higher metal. Now, make two balls and one hearer, each out of one metal sheet and it's respective plan. Craft like so:

0X0

111

X2X

X = Blank

0 = Ball

1 = String

2 = Hearer

Now with the stethoscope in your hands, right click on a locked block. Then move the mouse left or right to turn the knob. When you you can hear a click, that means you should stop turning and start turning in the opposite direction. Problem is, stethoscopes can give false clicks.

False clicks occurs when they are: less durable, of not-so-good-design, or you are turning the knob too quickly. You can only tell that it's a false click when you go back to it and it's not there anymore. When you DO get a click, you cannot go too far in the same direction or you lose one switch(click). When you reach the click, switch directions to gain it. If you switch back and go too far, you also lose one switch.

Cracking the lock can take a skilled lock-pick 10 seconds per switch. When you finally crack the lock, you gain the lock and said lock obviously disappears for the block.

EDIT:

In response to a comment by ECC, I have thought of the idea of handcuffs. Here is their workings:

Handcuffs: Handcuffs can be made using two double ingots and a single ingot of tier 3 or higher metal and a handcuff half blueprint. By left-clicking on any other player, said player gains the "Locked" status effect for an extended period of time. In return, the clicker loses the handcuffs. This means that they cannot place, punch or break objects. The effect stays until any player right clicks on them. In which case, the clicker gains the handcuffs as a reward.

By right clicking on someone with handcuffs, the clicked on player gains the "Bound" status effect. During this time, the bound player is forced to follow the clicker, as if the former's hand is cuffed to the latter's. The status effect can be stopped in two ways: the clicker switches his held item away from the handcuffs, or someone right-clicks on the bound player. In this case, the clicker gains the handcuffs.

To make a handcuff half, you must first make it's blueprint. This is a 4x4 circle of ink, not filled in and with a single ink on the left of the bottom left ink. Then, make two halves out of one of the mentioned double-ingots each. Weld the single ingot to a handcuff half to give if a full durability bar. (this is only needed to make the handcuff) Next, weld the two halves together to make some handcuffs.

Locked Handcuffs:These works basically the same except the only way you can unlock them to save someone is to either click while holding the key, or to pick their lock, in which case it works just like picking a key-lock. To make it, you must simply weld a lock with some handcuffs. In this case, you must use a handcuff key. This can be made using a double-ingot of tier 3 or higher and the lock handcuffs in the blueprint slot. It's simple, but it's also VERY useful. It's picking requirements are the same as the key-lock.

Police Baton: This item is simply a double ingot of tier 3 or higher metal and it's blueprint.To make the blueprint, all you need to do is a 3x4 rectangle of ink at the top with a single ink below the lower middle ink. Then simply create it with the double ingot and blueprint. It deals the same damage as a sword. But when killed, the killed player respawns a few seconds later exactly where he died.

This allows for police to bring people to the police station and confiscate their stuff. It also allows for mugging and thus makes police a necessity. Meanwhile, the handcuffs balance this and while it make police required, it also lessens the load of admins because the players can capture and imprison robbers, muggers and the such.

Thank you for your time.

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I suppose that since you are trying to start something fresh, we should ignore the meta thread for the time being and post the arguments here.

I used to fly under the angmar flag(long story short, vanilla faction, VERY powerful on that server)

we had all the resources we ever needed and the leader, as well as myself, where devious. Every single method of protection available, no matter the cost was used in our war machine. Claiming land acted to restrict the enemies border growth and allowed us to attack without being attacked. Tnt cannons built on our lands and more. No matter WHAT protection is added, no matter WHAT the cost, a dedicated team can use it to powerhouse any other nation. you CAN NOT add player controlled protection, otherwise it can and WILL be exploited for war machines such as this.

locks can be abused to lock your enemies unlocked chests. imagine going in and sabotaging someones home. this someone just joined, has done nothing and you can come in there and lock everything away. on a war based server this might be alright, but when on any other server its a greifers tool.

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locks can be abused to lock your enemies unlocked chests. imagine going in and sabotaging someones home. this someone just joined, has done nothing and you can come in there and lock everything away. on a war based server this might be alright, but when on any other server its a greifers tool.

Good point. But if you were a griefer and their chest was unlocked, why not simply steal their stuff instead? It's really no worse than in the LWC plug-in, and that doesn't even allow others to pick locks. Personally, I think if LWC does it and they don't receive complaints, why would we receive complaints? Just saying.

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I like the idea, especially the flags. I would like to take over a nation by actually doing something instead of just being there for a prolonged period of time.

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The prolonged period of time thing I believe means that the person is now a "citizen". This allows for stealing from the nation because you have now heard the lock codes from others. This also makes it so that people who are hiding from the law can easily be found via what I call "word of mouth". It's how I interpret it however, so your idea of how this is happening may be different.

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'why not simply steal their stuff instead'

Locks: I am a greifer, my goal is to cause chaos as long as i can before I get banned, and I KNOW I WILL get banned. Stealing stuff means someone finds it. Locking it away means a mod has to take even more time to unlock the 400 chests I just went around and effed up. I just won, because now I caused more work.

LWC: Im a greifer, they have LWC. I decide I want to greif, so I cut down someones tree farm, make myself a couple stacks of chests, then fill your house with chests that you cant break. I never stole your diamonds, but you can never get to them until a mod gets online. Enjoy, I win.

why not simply steal their stuff? Because protection is a better tool to abuse.

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I mean that LWC does basically the same thing, but locks allows for only griefers with access to higher tier metals can grief like this. Also, instead of admins doing this, maybe after a week of inactivity, the chests can be picked at any time. Also national chests are able to be picked as long as one person of said nation is online.

This means that the majority of griefers are lucky to be able to lock locks. Whereas in LWC all griefers can do this. And if said griefer hasn't been online for at least a week or he is online, a player owned business can be hired to pick the lock. This stimulates the economy AND lessens the admin's work load.

Furthermore, griefer nations can be set up with the intention of trolling. This would make people have to work together to form a nation so that they can help each other to be safe. This solves the "everyone is 1000 meters away" problem. Also, this would invoke wars in order to protect their land, something purely optional in the Factions plug-in.

p.s. I'm going to make a new type of lock in a moment, keep your eyes peeled to the thread.

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Changes made, please read under the "EDIT:" sign.

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you keep coming up with items that can be used BY THE GENERAL PUBLIC. that is your FIRST mistake here. Anything a normal user can get, no matter WHAT the cost is, is grounds for greif. Dedicated greifers can last on a server for weeks. Hell, I've greifed before on a massive scale in a server and never got banned(long story short, war servers are more open to greifing then other server. ) at the theft of 2 double chests worth of legitimately obtained TNT, Agmar blew up entire nations. Now, imagine, handcuffs. Now I have locked away an entire nation. everything they own is in a locked chest, every user is behind cuffs. I have made the game unplayable for them. I am a greifer, and I have won because the 'stupid mod makers' gave me awesome tools.

your mistake is thinking everyone is responsible and wouldn't abuse ANY item. hell, dirt is a abuseable item. get enough of it and you can slide it down a mountain and breach a wall so you can greif everyone inside. or just make it take a while to clean. No matter what, EVERYTHING in the users hands is a greifers weapon.

if this does not get into your thick head(lol,joke), imagine if Vcommand blocks were craftable/obtainable in creative mode.

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Also, if a griefer locks a bunch of chests in your way, what happens when you pick them? Does thief pop up under your name? Also, what happens if you destroy a locked chest?

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Tier 3 metal is VERY hard to get. By the time anyone has this, a nation would have already formed in preparation to stop the small-scale griefers. Someone can't just come online randomly and grief with locks and cuffs and not be attacked and jailed by police. All this stuff happened in real life, how do you think THEY dealt with it?

ps tier 3 is like wrought iron and such

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Also, if a griefer locks a bunch of chests in your way, what happens when you pick them? Does thief pop up under your name? Also, what happens if you destroy a locked chest?

1. Yes, your name becomes visible to the owner from any distance away and "Thief" pops up.

2. You cannot break locked chests. (It would be unbalanced)

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i dont care what tier it is. It could be effing red steel. all it takes is someone to break in and STEAL the necessary parts to trash an entire server.

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i dont care what tier it is. It could be effing red steel. all it takes is someone to break in and STEAL the necessary parts to trash an entire server.

You really think that ppl wuld b dumb enough to either:

a. not lock the chests when they have the materials

b. not hide the chests under say, dirt or cobble

c. not build a large enough community to combat these thieves.

Now that I think of it, maybe nation owners could also be notified when someone takes items from a national chest.

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You really think that ppl wuld b dumb enough to either:

a. not lock the chests when they have the materials

b. not hide the chests under say, dirt or cobble

c. not build a large enough community to combat these thieves.

Now that I think of it, maybe nation owners could also be notified when someone takes items from a national chest.

Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former. 

-Albert Einstein

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Just because you think of it does not mean you have the resources to do it. in tfc, people struggle to get ores. if you attack before they have a substantal amount, before they make the lock, you have killed them.

Im sorry, but this idea is pretty much shot down because you keep trying to come at it from the wrong angle. ANYTHING a non-op player can altar is going to be exploited in some way. and as the post above me says, people are stupid and no matter what we put into place to prevent issues, we cause more then we avoid.

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Well, people are stupid in real life and we got this far with similar mechanics.

Plus, you seem to forget hiding chests, hiding bases, and most of all picking the locks. A anti-grief lock-picking service would stimulate the economy. Plus, you also seem to forget that smaller-scale griefers would come first, thus forcing people to form a kingdom. At that time, kings see waypoints for new functional items, new locks, all citizens, and also they can see what is taken from where.

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Hiding chests, meet xray mod, hiding bases, meet xray, locks, meet 5 minutes dedicated time

again, you fail to understand that no matter WHAT angle you come from, adding protection just takes long term gameplay away as well as giving neat and unique greifer tools.

'Im a greifer, I enjoy fucking your day up.'

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Dude, X-Ray mods/hacks/TPs are just cheap and can be overriden by making an add-on to servers forbidding foreign mods/TPs.

And the lock thing... what u mean 5 mins I don't understand what you're getting at.

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TFC is not compatible with bukket, therefore you cant have an addon. ALSO, the add-on you speak of is resource intensive, something most server owners can not afford.

I can break into a lock in 5 minutes of real time if locks were implemented. if you cant pick it, then you ruin the idea of war servers where the goal is to raid your enemy. Locks are a no, protection from players BY the players is a no. it should be a separate mod entirely if protection is going to be added, so that server operators can make the decision.

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1) By add-on, I meant an add-on MOD.

2) Great ideas, and thanks for the constructive criticism, it really helped. Anyways, the "this thread being mod add-on suggestion" is a good idea. It'd also allow for customization between servers.

3) By add-on, I meant an add-on that the TFC team makes. I know TFC fan-mods are not going to be BETA.

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My statement stands, dunk and bioxx have stomped all add-ons for the time being, official or otherwise.

this thread really cant stand because your ideas wile nice on paper would not function in game.

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True, TFC just isn't capable of true realistic warfare. Besides, TFC isn't even going for realism anyways. I was just thinking of ideas to help kingdoms. Well, at least I can add it to MineLife once I learn how to mod MC.

ps yes I do have some Java experience.

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