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kotoroshinoto

Anvil molds : place and fill

32 posts in this topic

so its been bothering me for a while that we make 7 double ingots and just casually place them into a crafting grid and POOF anvil.

Maybe make a recipe that uses a sizable amount of clay

(maybe you make sides of the mold as separate recipes and then put the sides together on the crafting bench?).

For a mold this big, firing it might require a kiln of some sort, which we would eventually need for other types of pottery and ceramics anyway.

You place the mold as a block and then start filling it with metal (the first molten ingot used sets the type, the anvil won't accept any other metals once the type is set) The UI would be similar to the bloomery but operate in reverse. When it is full you have to wait for it to cool, when it has reached room temp, break the mold. (maybe with hammer and chisel?)

At least this way the production of the full size anvil out of component metal sort of makes some sense. (otherwise how are the double ingots being bonded?)

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good idea, also you should be able to get the metal back once you started the process, sort or bloomery with input and output.

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Alternately if they dont like this idea, a place-able base to start the welding process of building the anvil from the bottom up, would also be acceptable. (could use similar mechanic to making a tool & welding ingots, where you would shape the thing after welding an ingot on.

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I fully support this idea

overwhelmingly useful post

Yes, that post is my personal's Dunk meme :3 copyrighted already.

WHATEVER, on the topic... Well, Bioxx said no to making things out of molds instead of smithing, so... Not sure he's gonna like this one :

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Yes, that post is my personal's Dunk meme :3 copyrighted already.

WHATEVER, on the topic... Well, Bioxx said no to making things out of molds instead of smithing, so... Not sure he's gonna like this one :

he was referring to tools, the anvil is currently made on the crafting bench out of 7 double ingots, which is horrendously silly.

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Sorry, i have a kind of automated response when i see something which, for the title, looks similar to some other thing already rejected... Let me actually read what you say.

Okay... Looks pretty good... And i do support it, yeah... but i'm not really sure it's a big problem, quite honestly. I would like it to be implemented eventually, but i don't think they should concentrate on giving us an anvil mold when there is other more important stuff to do. Just personal opinion, though.

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Sorry, i have a kind of automated response when i see something which, for the title, looks similar to some other thing already rejected... Let me actually read what you say.

Okay... Looks pretty good... And i do support it, yeah... but i'm not really sure it's a big problem, quite honestly. I would like it to be implemented eventually, but i don't think they should concentrate on giving us an anvil mold when there is other more important stuff to do. Just personal opinion, though.

Also maybe it should wait until we have some kind of building mechanics, like ship building, or cart building. Then the anvil building can be added too.
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A cast anvil is far inferior compared to a forged and welded anvil. They can warp, dent (picture forging hardened steel on a copper anvil) and even shatter, as they are very soft compared to forged anvils, and generally speaking cast metals are much more brittle. They are much harder to work on as most of the force is absorbed and dissipated compared to 'bouncing back' which basically means you have to work twice as hard for the same results. Picture throwing a bouncy ball at concrete, and then at a sandbox (you'll need a LOT more force to get the ball to bounce off sand, because the sand absorbs it). The bounce back is what forms the other side of the tool, if you've taken rudimentary physics, you may have heard of the 'normal force' which is basically the force the surface offers back. When the surface doesn't offer force back it either dents or just absorbs the force. Of course, we don't really model how hard it is to forge in TFC, you just click the buttons and wham stuff happens, but it is safe to assume that cast anvils = not useful.

However, a cast anvil with a hardened face *CAN* still work as an anvil (if you were in a pinch), but again it's generally not accepted for any real metalworking.

Please tell me if I've made any mistakes!

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A cast anvil is far inferior compared to a forged and welded anvil. They can warp, dent (picture forging hardened steel on a copper anvil) and even shatter, as they are very soft compared to forged anvils, and generally speaking cast metals are much more brittle. They are much harder to work on as most of the force is absorbed and dissipated compared to 'bouncing back' which basically means you have to work twice as hard for the same results. Picture throwing a bouncy ball at concrete, and then at a sandbox (you'll need a LOT more force to get the ball to bounce off sand, because the sand absorbs it). The bounce back is what forms the other side of the tool, if you've taken rudimentary physics, you may have heard of the 'normal force' which is basically the force the surface offers back. When the surface doesn't offer force back it either dents or just absorbs the force. Of course, we don't really model how hard it is to forge in TFC, you just click the buttons and wham stuff happens, but it is safe to assume that cast anvils = not useful.

However, a cast anvil with a hardened face *CAN* still work as an anvil (if you were in a pinch), but again it's generally not accepted for any real metalworking.

Please tell me if I've made any mistakes!

well then fine, a system where we forge and weld the ingots is fine and dandy too, but the crafting bench method is derptastic

in any case, we need a system where we actually build it, rather than 7 ingots magically combine to form... captain planet.. oh i mean an anvil

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misc thoughts:

maybe require metal bonding/welding to take place in the metalurgy table, and require the liquid ingots to be surrounded by clay/sand/flux in order to bond correctly.

I'v always kinda wanted a liquid metal, finite liquid block. Or at least to have a pouring animation between blocks that has a thin stream of white hot metal spitting sparks all over.

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well then fine, a system where we forge and weld the ingots is fine and dandy too, but the crafting bench method is derptastic

in any case, we need a system where we actually build it, rather than 7 ingots magically combine to form... captain planet.. oh i mean an anvil

You could forge out a top and bottom and weld them, using double ingots for each. But that would take you from 14 ingots down to 4, which would make the initial anvil creation much less of a milestone.

I don't know how one would go about keeping anvils such a rewarding feeling upon completion, while also changing it from the admitedly silly 7 double ingots in a sideways H --> anvil.

Maybe a double ingot to forge an anvil face, welded onto another double to form an anvil top, then something similar to form an anvil bottom. That brings you to 4 ingots for the top and 4 for the base, before you combine them. Thats still 6 ingots short of the old recipie though.

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Personally i don't have a problem with anvils as they are but maybe if we got placable ingots we could potentially see a multi struckture where you would have to have a welding rod in your hand when placing then or right click with a welding tool to make a stack of ingots weld /form a anvil after using time on this also it could possibly mean that if the anvil is poorly made it will break after a certain amount of usses (a way for old anvils to get removed over time ? instead of recycling) like the tools have at the current time if you are not perfect in the way you hit the rules buttons you get a semi used tool and if its perfect you get a perfect tool that lasts longer

just my idea not sure if it would even be possible in this way as it would mean placing several ingots in a one block area to build the anvil

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A welding rod?

I think that it would be better if anvil pieces were welded together on an anvil, like double ingots, but say, forming quadruple ingots that combine into a top and bottom piece of an anvil which then can either be put together in a crafting bench or welded together further on the anvil.

Edit: Here is a rather interesting article on the art of Anvil forging in middle ages.

http://www.ernst-ref...il-forging.html

To add the previous.

In my opinion it should be possible to create tools on lower tier anvils then the material the tools are made off, but at a price of lower quality of said tools, represented by lowered durability as is the case with a poor performance of a smith in current release. Also, a simple metal block should be a sufficient anvil, but such that lowers the quality of tools further.

Eventually the process of making an anvil could require similar code as the building a bloomery, forge or charcoal pit.

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...I like the idea of a world-built Kiln. That can stay. That's good.

Cast anvils can fuck right off though, that's stupid

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Personally i don't have a problem with anvils as they are but maybe if we got placable ingots we could potentially see a multi struckture where you would have to have a welding rod in your hand when placing then or right click with a welding tool to make a stack of ingots weld /form a anvil after using time on this also it could possibly mean that if the anvil is poorly made it will break after a certain amount of usses (a way for old anvils to get removed over time ? instead of recycling)

As far as the anvils breaking, I think that with the new 1.4 vanilla anvil he could probably find a way to pull code from there, or maybe forge added an event for it.

Also, welding rods are a bit advanced for the period.

oh, and since the vanilla anvil replaces it with another block instead of using damage values, that would use several more block ids. keep this in mind also. unless he could put it all into metadata, which I personally don't see a way to do.

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I dislike the idea of anvils breaking, at least with the current system. However if you brought the recipie down to Plans+double ingot for a head and plans+double ingot base, welding both together for an anvil at the cost of 4 ingots, i could see degrading anvils make much more sense.

Currently though, 14 ingots for a required item that ends up breaking on me? And what if I accidently let my anvil break before I craft a replacement, do I need to craft a new black steel anvil so i can recraft my blue/red steel one?

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Wikipedia on History of Anvils:

"Early anvils were first made of stone as a lithic stone tool, then bronze, and later wrought iron. As steel became more readily available, anvils were faced with it. This was done to give the anvil a hard face and to stop the anvil from deforming from impact. Many regional styles of anvils evolved through time from the simple block that was first used by smiths. The majority of anvils found today in the US are based on the London pattern anvil of the mid-19th century.

The wrought iron steel faced anvil was produced up until the early 20th century. Through the 19th and very early 20th centuries, this method of construction evolved to produce extremely high quality anvils. The basic process involved forge welding billets of wrought iron together to produce the desired shape. The sequence and location of the forge welds varied between different anvil makers and the kind of anvil being made. At the same time cast iron anvils with steel faces were being made in the United States. At the dawn of the 20th century solid cast steel anvils began to be produced, as well as two piece forged anvils made from closed die forgings. Modern anvils are generally made entirely from steel.

The concept of an anvil may predate humanity. Chimpanzees have been observed using large sticks as hammers to crack nuts, using logs as anvils.

There are many references to anvils in ancient Greek and Egyptian writings, including Homer's works. They have been found at the Calico Early Man Site in North America.

Anvils have since lost their former commonness, along with the smiths who used them. Mechanized production has made cheap and abundant manufactured goods readily available. The one-off handmade products of the blacksmith are less economically viable in the modern world, while in the past they were an absolute necessity. However, anvils are still used by blacksmiths and metal workers of all kinds in producing custom work. They are also essential to the work done by farriers."

I think this might require a rework of anvils. The anvil mold idea is out, because it clearly says that anvils were forge-welded up until the early 20th century. What I would like to see though is a rework of metals.

TFC still isn't believable to me because it still doesn't follow the natural progression of metalworking. COPPER should be the first metal, and the three current starter metals should be found in MUCH small veins or require much more ore to produce a single ingot, as in real life. Tin ingots weren't actually produced until about 600 BCE, at the beginning of the iron age. I think the first metal should be copper, smithed on stone anvils, then bronze anvils for bronze, then wrought iron and then steel. (and black, red, and blue steel)

Just my thoughts...

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Wikipedia on History of Anvils:

"Early anvils were first made of stone as a lithic stone tool, then bronze, and later wrought iron. As steel became more readily available, anvils were faced with it. This was done to give the anvil a hard face and to stop the anvil from deforming from impact. Many regional styles of anvils evolved through time from the simple block that was first used by smiths. The majority of anvils found today in the US are based on the London pattern anvil of the mid-19th century.

The wrought iron steel faced anvil was produced up until the early 20th century. Through the 19th and very early 20th centuries, this method of construction evolved to produce extremely high quality anvils. The basic process involved forge welding billets of wrought iron together to produce the desired shape. The sequence and location of the forge welds varied between different anvil makers and the kind of anvil being made. At the same time cast iron anvils with steel faces were being made in the United States. At the dawn of the 20th century solid cast steel anvils began to be produced, as well as two piece forged anvils made from closed die forgings. Modern anvils are generally made entirely from steel.

The concept of an anvil may predate humanity. Chimpanzees have been observed using large sticks as hammers to crack nuts, using logs as anvils.

There are many references to anvils in ancient Greek and Egyptian writings, including Homer's works. They have been found at the Calico Early Man Site in North America.

Anvils have since lost their former commonness, along with the smiths who used them. Mechanized production has made cheap and abundant manufactured goods readily available. The one-off handmade products of the blacksmith are less economically viable in the modern world, while in the past they were an absolute necessity. However, anvils are still used by blacksmiths and metal workers of all kinds in producing custom work. They are also essential to the work done by farriers."

I think this might require a rework of anvils. The anvil mold idea is out, because it clearly says that anvils were forge-welded up until the early 20th century. What I would like to see though is a rework of metals.

TFC still isn't believable to me because it still doesn't follow the natural progression of metalworking. COPPER should be the first metal, and the three current starter metals should be found in MUCH small veins or require much more ore to produce a single ingot, as in real life. Tin ingots weren't actually produced until about 600 BCE, at the beginning of the iron age. I think the first metal should be copper, smithed on stone anvils, then bronze anvils for bronze, then wrought iron and then steel. (and black, red, and blue steel)

Just my thoughts...

my history taught me copper and tin were the first 2 metals used, merging these 2 made bronze, and after that i cant remember :D

not sure how accurate this is though

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my history taught me copper and tin were the first 2 metals used, merging these 2 made bronze, and after that i cant remember :D

not sure how accurate this is though

not very, unfortunately.

The first metals were found as surficial native deposits, (inspired the surface ore idea) of copper. These copper nuggets were heated to 200-500 C and cold worked into small beads and awls. Later, we developed hotter fires and were able to heat the copper enough to cold work it into different shapes. This allowed us to make more complex tools, such as copper hatchets. The iceman was found with a copper hatchet. It looked like this:

Posted Image

The first "bronzes" were created by having trace amounts of arsenic or tin mixed in with the ore by accident, and people soon learned that these two ores could produce bronze, which held a better edge, was easier to work, and cooled into a less spongy metal. Arsenic was soon ousted as a viable metal because it was poisonous, and so the search began for tin ores. Cassiterite was the ore used for this, but cassiterite was very rare and had a very low yield of tin for the amount of ore. People weren't aware that it was a metal that was being isolated from the mineral and just added it directly to the copper smelting process and somehow came out with bronze.

Tin was truly discovered for some time.

"This silvery, malleablepost-transition metal is not easily oxidized in air and is used to coat other metals to prevent corrosion. The first alloy, used in large scale since 3000 BC, was bronze, an alloy of tin and copper. After 600 BC pure metallic tin was produced."

The only reason we used Bismuth, tin and zinc as the starter metal was because of their low melting points, but after some more research, it seems that (obviously) the SMELTING temperatures of ores are not the same as the MELTING temperatures of the resulting metals. For example, SnO2 (cassiterite) is smelted to pure tin at 1200-1300 C (higher than copper) and sphalerite is first roasted into ZnO (which can be used to make brass, it's what the romans did) or further processed with carbon into pure zinc at 950 C, which actually produces zinc vapours. Bismuth in general has very little information.

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Well, I for one felt strange digging solid rock with a tin pickaxe that I made in a firepit.

I imagined it looking like a soda can that someone stepped on after a few hits xd

Edit: If you do recode metals and make copper to be the first, then please please please don't make players first smelt a freakin copper anvil before making copper tools. It doesn't make sense. >.>

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Edit: If you do recode metals and make copper to be the first, then please please please don't make players first smelt a freakin copper anvil before making copper tools. It doesn't make sense. >.>

It makes sense, because if you want to work the copper in the stone anvil, it may break and it's not a good anvil, instead the copper anvil is well made.Well, it makes sense for the the other anvils.
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It makes sense, because if you want to work the copper in the stone anvil, it may break and it's not a good anvil, instead the copper anvil is well made.

Dunk just said the copper would be worked in a stoner anvil... So yeah :

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Dunk just said the copper would be worked in a stoner anvil... So yeah :

And all the other anvils?
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It still doesn't make much sense to be required to get this huge amount of specific metal to make an anvil out of it just to make tools.

Anvil requirement should be metal tier -1.

You are supposed to be a caveman, right? So when a caveman found copper and zinc, and made bronze for the first time, did he think "Oh I know, let's make a big block of this metal to use instead of the tenchique we used for millenia. :huh: "

Or did he experiment with bronze, making tools and ornaments on copper and stone anvils first? You know, to have time to come up with the idea that this is usefull for making an anvil. ;)

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