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puxapuak

Walls of text

56 posts in this topic

I don't understand why people dislike walls of text. A small bit of text might contain something interesting but not contain any detail to explain it and will often lead to confusion and misunderstanding. A lot of text can take something seemingly insignificant and turn it into something extraordinary and revolutionary. There is not an interesting game on this planet that can be explained in a single paragraph of prose.

If you can read, walls of text should not be daunting. None of you are so important that you can't spend twenty minutes reading something truly interesting and creative and reflect thereupon. Novels are very large walls of text folded up into several lengthy pieces. Have you never read a book? I don't think that it is productive that our global society is increasingly against reading something the length of a children's novel in order to get a grasp of what's going on in their community. How sad a species we are becoming.

/rant.

**

Editing this to avoid confusion. This rant isn't particularly aimed at this forum, it is aimed at the whole of Internet culture, which is why I stuck it in this section. It is not a critique of the TFC community.

There is a general and widespread attitude online that anything longer than a couple of sentences is not worth reading (tl;dr). Worse, this attitude (I would call it a cultural value) is spreading IRL as well. This is what I am ranting about.

**

Adding this link. It talks about some interesting aspects of literacy. I particularly like how it points out that measures of literacy that simply say "literate" or "illiterate" are not very useful. "High level" is actually secondary-school level or so. It is what is commonly called functional; only "high" because as the stats show, very few people read and write at a functional level in their native tongue.

http://www.conferenc...igh-skills.aspx

http://www.conferenc...low-skills.aspx

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Sadly, many walls of text are poorly written and a number who write them are unwilling to go back and reread their own wall of text to proof read it prior to mashing post. This isn't to say everyone does that of course, and I enjoy detailed posts, especially ones that are thoughtful. But that category is more rare than I'd like.

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I'm going to be honest, here: You shouldn't have to spend twenty freakin' minutes reading a single post. Ten minutes, maybe... But NOT twenty.

If they've got something interesting to say, they'll have my attention within a couple of paragraphs, and I'll read as long as I need to; otherwise, it's insulting for someone to think that our time is worth so little that we should have to slog through a post that you couldn't be arsed to make more concise.

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walls of text in my opinion are when people write long postst with no spacing between lines and a constant word flow i dont mind gramma not being perfect hell i suck at it too and punctuation and commas i forget also but a little line shift can do wonders still walls of text if interesting ill read em i dont mind it but if there are no spacing no line shift to break it up i will get distracted and not know where i was at also i will tire of reading if i do not have a natural pause like a line shift and that will again make me lose interest and make me stop reading a post now i on purpouse have not made line shifts in this post just to show what i mean i am sure it wouldent qualify as a wall of text just yet but i can continue writing loads of bull shit here and im sure you will end up giving in with out finding the exiting meaning of the post i like pie and we should have more of it in thsi forum also walls of text are very differently percived by different people so when people complain about walls of text it is either they are to bussy reading or they have like me problems concentrating for longer periods of time and if the wall of text they are reading dosent help them with natural pauses or places to see they can start again from they will get frustrated and give up now reading for 20 minutes isent that bad hell i can read a book of 500 pages in a day if it is interesting enough to me same with forum posts if they are interesting enough ill read em how ever long it will take me if they are just rubbish ill not read very far also alot of the walls of text we see here are complaints about this or that and how people want it to be instead so i am guessing people dislike walls of text for this reason aswell good suggestions have been made with out it being walls of text aswell tbh walls of text can be both good and bad im indiferent all i want is a bit of easy reading when i try to understand what a person is writing is that so bad ?

sorry but this is my example of what i percive as a wall of text if you read it all good god you are tenacious

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walls of text in my opinion are when people write long postst with no spacing between lines and a constant word flow i dont mind gramma not being perfect hell i suck at it too and punctuation and commas i forget also but a little line shift can do wonders still walls of text if interesting ill read em i dont mind it but if there are no spacing no line shift to break it up i will get distracted and not know where i was at also i will tire of reading if i do not have a natural pause like a line shift and that will again make me lose interest and make me stop reading a post now i on purpouse have not made line shifts in this post just to show what i mean i am sure it wouldent qualify as a wall of text just yet but i can continue writing loads of bull shit here and im sure you will end up giving in with out finding the exiting meaning of the post i like pie and we should have more of it in thsi forum also walls of text are very differently percived by different people so when people complain about walls of text it is either they are to bussy reading or they have like me problems concentrating for longer periods of time and if the wall of text they are reading dosent help them with natural pauses or places to see they can start again from they will get frustrated and give up now reading for 20 minutes isent that bad hell i can read a book of 500 pages in a day if it is interesting enough to me same with forum posts if they are interesting enough ill read em how ever long it will take me if they are just rubbish ill not read very far also alot of the walls of text we see here are complaints about this or that and how people want it to be instead so i am guessing people dislike walls of text for this reason aswell good suggestions have been made with out it being walls of text aswell tbh walls of text can be both good and bad im indiferent all i want is a bit of easy reading when i try to understand what a person is writing is that so bad ?

sorry but this is my example of what i percive as a wall of text if you read it all good god you are tenacious

I see what you did there...

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Probably more people don't like walls of text because (Like me) they're not english and it's a bit more difficult to read. Another reason can be that not everyone has those 20 minutes and not everyone likes reading...This is what I think. I don't want to start a new wall of text...Ah another reason is that walls of text make the topic look longer and then more difficult to reply...

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Long posts don't need long introductions and lots of tasteless water upfront with all the key ideas hidden somewhere in the middle. Place short version or TL:DR in the beginning and explain other stuff later on. If I'm interested by short version, I'll read the rest.

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Big MultiQuote to address some of what was said. But first, please note my change to the OP. I should have had that in there last night as what prompted me to rant wasn't even something on this forum.

Sadly, many walls of text are poorly written and a number who write them are unwilling to go back and reread their own wall of text to proof read it prior to mashing post. This isn't to say everyone does that of course, and I enjoy detailed posts, especially ones that are thoughtful. But that category is more rare than I'd like.

I do agree with this. Writing skills (at least in English) are definitely going downhill. People are graduating high school with barely functional reading and writing skills. I have people coming into my university classes that do not know the function of the words "because" and "the". This is truly appalling. I don't want to see an unreadable wall of text any more than anyone else, but if we all stop writing at length then it doesn't encourage anyone to improve their writing.

If they've got something interesting to say, they'll have my attention within a couple of paragraphs, *snip*

I'm going to be honest, here: You shouldn't have to spend twenty freakin' minutes reading a single post. Ten minutes, maybe... But NOT twenty.

Right, but a couple of paragraphs is considered by much of the Internet as a wall of text.

But in general, does your opinion change with my adjustment to the OP?

Regarding the time, I said twenty minutes because some people read slower than others and because I was imagining more in the context of a forum board where there may be a post with a lot of depth and a number of responses with the same. Also sometimes a good post can take a while to understand - you have to mull it over. There's a lack of mulling being done even with shorter posts.

*snip*

sorry but this is my example of what i percive as a wall of text if you read it all good god you are tenacious

It doesn't take me long to read it, so I don't think that tenacity figured into it. But your point was similar to redundantusage's, so I'll just refer back to my comment to his above. I will add that I think your definition of wall of text does not match the way it is used. Even a well-constructed statement gets called a wall of text and people whine about it with calls of tl;dr all the time. Generally, it does not matter to people if it has good grammar or says something interesting or not. As YourMajesty says, many just simply think it is unacceptable.

Probably more eople don't like walls of text because (Like me) they're not english and it's a bit more difficult to read. Another reason can be that not everyone has those 20 minutes and not everyone likes reading...This is what I think. I don't want to start a new wall of text...Ah another reason is that walls of text make the topic look longer and then more difficult to reply...

I can appreciate that it is more difficult for someone of another language, but on the other hand, if it is a well-written post it will give you a lot more and a lot better practise with the language. It is very difficult to improve with a language beyond a point if you specifically avoid such things. Consider yourself even... you may be ESL but you have much better English skills than many native English speakers.

And yes, it can be more difficult to reply, but why are we afraid of that? Why do we shun it? It seems very strange.

I disagree about the time though. People have a lot more time than they think. We hear this all the time; "I'm soooo busy" - or - "I don't have the time to do anything I want to" and then they sit their butt in front of a TV or game for 6 hours a day. We almost all have the time, we just don't value our time very well.

Long posts don't need long introductions and lots of tasteless water upfront with all the key ideas hidden somewhere in the middle. Place short version or TL:DR in the beginning and explain other stuff later on. If I'm interested by short version, I'll read the rest.

I think that is fair and speaks to what YourMajesty was saying too. It also points to appropriate writing for the place. On a forum like this (or rather, the main portion of this board rather than the Off-Topic) where the dialogue should be circling around fairly specific ideas, it is appropriate to try to say at least the basics tenets of the idea in the first paragraph. But if it's a bit complicated, we should be taking the time to explain it in detail. Having a specific tl;dr version will just encourage people to ignore the remainder and (probably) misunderstand when they respond.

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You know, i don't hate walls of text really : i hate uninteresting wall of texts. I mean, i myself read a LOT daily, both in spanish and english. I'm used to see walls of text, and generally, i just read them. But it's really hard to do so if you don't have interest in what you read. And the thing is that sometimes, the post might not be useless, it might be a really good idea; but because of the writer's unability to interest the reader, it's simply ignored or hated. When you are going to make a wall of text, you NEED to be really aware of who's gonna read it and how to keep up his interest. Look at Jed1314's posts. He is brilliant when it comes to get the reader's attention. Most of his suggestions were wall of texts, and regardless loved.

People should follow his example when you plan on making a wall of text: At the start of the post, present a TL;DR. A summary of what you suggest; a taste of what you offer to the reader. And that's enough; you will keep up their interest for what's left of that wall of text, it won't matter if they liked the summary of the idea or not. And if that doesn't keeps they interested, then you shouldn't take their replies seriously... i mean, what's the point in replying to someone who won't even bother in reading your points before attacking them?

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You know, i don't hate walls of text really : i hate uninteresting wall of texts. I mean, i myself read a LOT daily, both in spanish and english. I'm used to see walls of text, and generally, i just read them. But it's really hard to do so if you don't have interest in what you read. And the thing is that sometimes, the post might not be useless, it might be a really good idea; but because of the writer's unability to interest the reader, it's simply ignored or hated. When you are going to make a wall of text, you NEED to be really aware of who's gonna read it and how to keep up his interest. Look at Jed1314's posts. He is brilliant when it comes to get the reader's attention. Most of his suggestions were wall of texts, and regardless loved.

People should follow his example when you plan on making a wall of text: At the start of the post, present a TL;DR. A summary of what you suggest; a taste of what you offer to the reader. And that's enough; you will keep up their interest for what's left of that wall of text, it won't matter if they liked the summary of the idea or not. And if that doesn't keeps they interested, then you shouldn't take their replies seriously... i mean, what's the point in replying to someone who won't even bother in reading your points before attacking them?

Ok, wall of text, but interesting and you're completely right...maybe you...maybe you're reaching jed1314's level...
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Ok, wall of text, but interesting and you're completely right...maybe you...maybe you're reaching jed1314's level...

I could have done it before, but... meh, i'm far too lazy, and i don't make that much suggestions myself : (at least, not in my own threads...)

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Ah enough modesty JAG :P .. I've basically disappeared while you're still here :L .. Between the two of us, you're definitely the experienced veteran now :P

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basically, when i post something thats going to be a wall of text, i spice it up, good spacing in between, images to explain my point, or i post a REALLY summarized TL:DR at the bottom, like i did at naval suggestions thread if only to spice their interest (like the following)

TL:DR BOATS, HOSTILE OCEANS, MORE IN TOPIC

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basically, when i post something thats going to be a wall of text, i spice it up, good spacing in between, images to explain my point, or i post a REALLY summarized TL:DR at the bottom, like i did at naval suggestions thread if only to spice their interest (like the following)

TL:DR BOATS, HOSTILE OCEANS, MORE IN TOPIC

If we need a TL;DR for those 2 sentences, then....what have we come to? :P

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well, if you'd read the actual post, it was quite a long one with pictures and everything, but that was the TL:DR for it :D

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If we need a TL;DR for those 2 sentences, then....what have we come to? :P

*mutters quietly* Copycat :angry:

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*mutters quietly* Copycat :angry:

I feel like annoying someone today... sorry :P

*preparing unnecesarily large amount of likes for the post...*

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I feel like annoying someone today... sorry :P

*preparing unnecesarily large amount of likes for the post...*

Between you and killster, 53 likes, I know you can do better than that! :P

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Between you and killster, 53 likes, I know you can do better than that! :P

Enough said.
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Between you and killster, 53 likes, I know you can do better than that! :P

Far too lazy -w-

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Enough said.

23 from wolf and 5 more from killster, thats a total of 81. You guys aren't very good at this...

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23 from wolf, thats a total of 76. You guys aren't very good at this...

Yeah, I'm not good at this. Thanks for your tip achartran, I stop now then.
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Between you and killster, 53 likes, I know you can do better than that! :P

Posted Image

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23 from wolf and 5 more from killster, thats a total of 81. You guys aren't very good at this...

That sounds as a challenge... *press like once*

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