Better trade for Multiplayer: The weighing scale

[VonZeeple 10]

This is a new object that could be used to trade with other players in multiplayer:

The weighing scale

Clicking on it could open a GUI with two set of slots, one set for each player. The players place the items they want to exchange. If one agree, he clicks on a button. When both have clicked, the items are exchanged. This could prevent from being tricked by dishonest players, and such a scale allow to identify easily a shop or the house of a merchant.

I hope my english isn't too rubbish!

[ruhl4 24]

Its more fun (and believable) just to leave PVP on and stab the thief.

[Sda215 8]

This is a new object that could be used to trade with other players in multiplayer:

The weighing scale

Clicking on it could open a GUI with two set of slots, one set for each player. The players place the items they want to exchange. If one agree, he clicks on a button. When both have clicked, the items are exchanged. This could prevent from being tricked by dishonest players, and such a scale allow to identify easily a shop or the house of a merchant.

I hope my english isn't too rubbish!

Your English is how formal persons write, so it is not rubbish. What you suggested, Mister VonZeeple, may have been suggested in the Kingdom Brainstorming Thread. I rarely visit that thread, so I am in the dark here. This is quite a remarkable suggestion; this item can be used in trading and bartering! However, I must point out this thread's flaws:

-It could be the opposite for its purpose of stopping dishonest players.

-The item could be used for griefers and trolls, I think.

-This is effective up to a certain extent where coin currency is required.

Also...

Welcome to the TerraFirmaCraft Forums, Mister VonZeeple!

-Sda209

Its more fun (and believable) just to leave PVP on and stab the thief.

Sure it could be believable, but that has potential use for griefers and trolls, quite frankly: also barbaric and violent.

[killster550 401]

well the delivery of its purpose is a little flat but what i get from it is this: you want a trading system to be implemented via a weighing scale block.

when its as basic as that, i approve

[GreenLeaf 198]

Your English is how formal persons write, so it is not rubbish. What you suggested, Mister VonZeeple, may have been suggested in the Kingdom Brainstorming Thread. I rarely visit that thread, so I am in the dark here. This is quite a remarkable suggestion; this item can be used in trading and bartering! However, I must point out this thread's flaws:

-It could be the opposite for its purpose of stopping dishonest players.

-The item could be used for griefers and trolls, I think.

-This is effective up to a certain extent where coin currency is required.

Also...

Sure it could be believable, but that has potential use for griefers and trolls, quite frankly: also barbaric and violent.

what use could a griefer possibly have for this?

and as for coin currency. the scale could deffinetly be used with coins! i personally would prefer if gems where made into a sort of officiall multiplayer currency but that's another story. basically. the more valuable the coin/gem the heavier it becomes.

[Zandorum 59]

I had a Similar idea where if you held Right-Click on another player it would Ask them if they would like to Trade, They would do the same back to Initiate trade. You would drag your items in from your inventory into the trade box, both players would have a trade box and you could see the other persons. You cannot take items from the other trade box obviously. You can Accept/Decline. Once you Accept you have to wait for them to Accept. Once that is done it will Exchange the Items. If you do not have the Space for the items in your inventory when the player with the Insufficient inventory space tries to Accept the Trade it will tell them they do not have the Space for it and kick them back into the main trade.

OR

VonZeeples Idea but you have to Right click on a Non-Dirt/Liquid Surface with Coin to make the Trading Table. The table it self would be removed upon finishing trade. Sorta like Oh you have to sit down some where and Trade. Have something to put your items on to show them to each other.

[Sda215 8]

what use could a griefer possibly have for this?

and as for coin currency. the scale could deffinetly be used with coins! i personally would prefer if gems where made into a sort of officiall multiplayer currency but that's another story. basically. the more valuable the coin/gem the heavier it becomes.

Well, griefers have no possible use for this item, but trolls definitely have a use for this item. They could potentially troll the player by giving them another item instead of the supposed one, should the anti-dishonest feature be left out.

[killster550 401]

basically, there should be a parity bit that switches your 'OK' box back to 'NOT OK' should any changes happen in the other persons box, (in fact, runescape does this, shoot me for saying but thats working at least) also, i had the feel the currency was going to be implemented once we get to Kingdoms eventually, so yea, this idea should go in that metathrea, with a link to this thread where the discussion will be, also

instead of just using a right click trade menu, which should/could only work for survivability tools (ammo, food, weapons, tools) given the fact the player inventory will get a MASSIVE reduce when the horse carts arrive. this will cause for trading to be done in established outposts, which would need a special trading system to be active, but what really needs to be added to the idea is a AFK version of the store, where your basic goods are listed, players can select what they want, and the owner can attach a coin price to their blocks, which would then be sold upon agreement by the player. (no not NPC's)

or you could just leave the previous bit out saying stores arent always open due to whatever reason, this was just about gameplay values

[halfmaster1 77]

I think his suggestion has nothing to do with weight, just a box that once both parties agree, the items switch sides.

[killster550 401]

of course halfmaster, but in nearly every medieval-ish era game, a weighing scale has been used to represent trading

[halfmaster1 77]

I know, some people seemed confused, though. Someone said expensive coins should weigh more.

[GreenLeaf 198]

I know, some people seemed confused, though. Someone said expensive coins should weigh more.

that was me. the scale could work as a calculator witch would add up all the various coins/gems lobbed up on your side of the scale. and then the other guy lobs up his trade material.

it wouldn't be weight as in the actual weight of the coins (that's how trade used to work)

what you'd get is cobblestone worth much more than a metalsword. the actual weight of items wouldn't really work for trading.

i mean that a gold coin makes your side go down more than one made of copper or silver.

[killster550 401]

the calculation of the value of said items would be incredibly hard to code, dont even think of the weighing system itself, i think it should all just be in-gui, with no indicator whether you are being scammed for more or less value, because what you'd get is that a server price for a sword is 10 gold coin, but the scale says 1 gold coin for a sword is too much, new users'd be all like: OMG, YOU'RE SCAMMING ME! even though said coins could be much easier obtainable in that server due to whomever knows what reason

[GreenLeaf 198]

now that i think about. introducing weight as a form of calculating the worth of coins and goods wouldn't work.

the scale should, like Kilster said, work as a gui for easier and safe trading.

[splatman1981 44]

i believe in some ways silver could be more valuable than gold... simply by its rarity, but in tfc what would have the most value? perhaps nickel? one small note, gems dont really have a value because they have no use or purpose. i like the idea of a basic trade gui, but lets not program value into the system pls.

[ECC 508]

I personally like the idea of this. I'll never personally use it as I do my trades within established micro communities and just toss it to them. Pro tip: dont trade at spawn.

[GreenLeaf 198]

i believe in some ways silver could be more valuable than gold... simply by its rarity, but in tfc what would have the most value? perhaps nickel? one small note, gems dont really have a value because they have no use or purpose. i like the idea of a basic trade gui, but lets not program value into the system pls.

gems would have a value as a trade currency. just like it works in real life. that piece of paper in your wallet doesn't have a practical use as food or building material but the one you're trading with knows that he can get what he wants from another guy if he trades his goods for your piece of paper.

that's how some part of economics work

way back in the old days people used to trade goods for other goods. like, give me that cow and i'll give you 10 sacks of grain. this type worked for a while but as people started realizing the true value of things as well as the invention of really really really fancy expensive jewelry and weaponry they soon realized that they couldn't keep on carrying around sacks of goods everytime they wanted to buy something.

So they invented the coin which, instead of being actually useful as a metal, represented a certain value.

i believe at some time gems where being used as currency too and i know for a fact that in the lands of meso-america they used cocoa beans for currency!

there's a bunch of stuff in between all that too which played parts on shaping modern ecomnomics but i ain't a historian nor an economics expert.

But basically. gems would have very little actual purpose as a material but since everyone on the server knows that with enough of

these gems they can get something instantly instead of having to make it themselves, it will have a value in it self.

i mean, the gems are already there in the game! there's no need really to change them (unless bioxx finds additional uses for them like the protection meter)

Someone could perhaps make up some universal rules of what kind of gem should be worth more than the other. think Legend of Zelda, green rupees are worth 1, blue are worth 5, red are worth 20 and so on and so on.

which would probably require some slight changing in the probability of finding all the various gems. making the most expensive and flawless gem extremely hard to simply come by when digging around.

is there a general trading thread?

Edited 29 Nov 2012 by GreenLeaf

[Treyflix 277]

IMP, bartering is far superior to the money system. As a farmer, I barter all the time and it is much less... greedy? it's like you're valuing the other persons services more. Here, I'll trade you this box of veggies and pork if you fix my car. Everyone ends up happier in the end.

[GreenLeaf 198]

IMP, bartering is far superior to the money system. As a farmer, I barter all the time and it is much less... greedy? it's like you're valuing the other persons services more. Here, I'll trade you this box of veggies and pork if you fix my car. Everyone ends up happier in the end.

of course trading with goods would exist as usual!

trading with gems would serve as nothing more than an inventory saver. especially if the inventory space is further nerfed by bioxx in the future.

think of how you'd do in real life. you wouldn't go to your local store and buy 10 dollars worth of groceries and then pay with 10 dollars worth of potatoes. even if the store owner accepts your payment you'd have to bring a shitload of potatoes! there's a reason the old "i trade my goods for your goods!" was dropped and exchanged for "i trade my goods for your coins!" in the first place.

[transcengopher 349]

IMP, bartering is far superior to the money system. As a farmer, I barter all the time and it is much less... greedy? it's like you're valuing the other persons services more. Here, I'll trade you this box of veggies and pork if you fix my car. Everyone ends up happier in the end.

Currency arised basically from the fact that someone wouldn't want this box of vegetables for fixing your cart, he would like to have a new wrench, and blacksmith, who can make the wrench, wants twenty clay molds and so on, until you finally found someone who would want vegetables and can provide something useful for barter, but two boxes of which you only have one.

Or you can just interexchange some universal item.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

-snip-

lil' bit of derail here, your avatar and signature's images are handdrawn by you? o.o

[transcengopher 349]

lil' bit of derail here, your avatar and signature's images are handdrawn by you? o.o

Yes, they are. Most of my past avatars on this forums are handdrawn by me. Is there something wrong with them?

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Yes, they are. Most of my past avatars on this forums are handdrawn by me. Is there something wrong with them?

To the contrary, they are awesome :3

[Menoch 335]

WARNING: Possible wall of text....

NOTE: I am using an ipod to post this so please forgive spelling errors and lack of ability to add spoilers, etc....

Merchant scales have been in use for so long and have been an integral part of trade for hundreds upon hundreds of years (think East India Trading Company for instance) however merchants scales like the one above did use individual weights of varying amounts. I think a scale is a must for this game and would be SO useful, but;

1). A scale with an individual weight "plate" and a single arm depicting the weight of an object should be used instead of the dual arm scale. Just my opinion.

2). There would need to be a universal measuring unit in weights (like pounds, etc...) but lets say as an example we can call this unit STONES. For example a sword blade (tin) weighs 4.5 stones.

The scale UI could have a 4x4 grid on the right side, and on the left side a numerical measurement of how many stones in weight the items on the "tray" weigh.

THE VALUE OF ITEMS:

Until there is a slated use for gems, metals, and any other item, i dont think the value of an item can be measured regardless of rarity. Sure diamonds could be the main monetary unit for a community, but if there is no use for a diamond beyond that, what value is it really? Sure peeps can argue that a dollar is only as valuable as the paper it is on, but in the "era" in which TFC is based, EVERYTHING should have a use. Metal coins of gold and silver make total sense seeing as how even those can be melted down to their base and used elsewhere. And even as coins, their intrinsic value stands in their "weight in gold".

I hope I am making sense....

HACK JEWELRY:

So you are a merchant that just made one hell of a deal, and now you need to make sure you have one hell of a strong belt to hold your pants up or you are gonna look like a midievil gangsta.

So to alleviate this problem, merchants would make hack jewelry. Chunks of precious metal, gold, silver, etc... That they could wear so their packs and/or pouches weren't burstin out with coinage. When it came time for the merchant to trade for something, they would take this jewelry and "hack" a piece of this jewelry off, weigh it on the scale. Depending on how many 'stones' the hacked piece of metal weighs, and the current gold coin weight in 'stones', you would be able to determine just how many gold coins worth of metal you have there.

I suppose once a community is established and the establishment of values is made, everything would fall into place for the value of every item. Is a cow worth its weight in gold? Lol.

GEMOLOGY AND CRAFT:

The scale is also extremely important in a gemcutters field of craft. One of the four aspects of measuring a gems value is finding its weight in carats. Measuring a gemstone's weight before it is cut will give you its base value.

RANDOM GEMSTONE WEIGHTS:

While gemstones stack, each on its own type, adding a random weight to eqch class of gemstone would give scales more use in this area of craft, making scales an even MORE valuable and worthwile item to own.

--- LIMITED SPACE ---

Of course assigning random weight values to gem classes would strain the already limited inventory space a player has. This Can be alleviated with a gemologists bag. As logs cant be put in chests, i think it would be feasible to code items so that anythin other than a gemstone (cut or uncut) could not be places in this bag. As this has been discussed elsewhere, i will leave it at that.

SCALE RARITY:

I think that having a set of scales in this game, will not only make for a more intricate system of commerce, but this is just a tip of the iceberg for what a scale can be used for.

That said, i don't think that a scale should just be something that can be whipped together with a few sticks and some strings and bowls. It should be harder to craft, perhaps including gears and pullies that a metalworker could make, adding more uses for metal. This would reflect the fact that all scales had to be universal, all having to give the same measurement as any other scale.

This would also reflect (historically irl at least) the social status of an individual who owned a scale. They werent cheap.

WEIGHT VISIBILITY:

Should each and every item be labeled with its individual weight? Initially, common items such as sticks, cobblestone, and the like could list a weight in 'stones' but items like gems, ores, and other precious materials should have their weight identifier masked so that in order to find the weight of said item, you would need a scale, or have to find someone with a scale, and once "identified" the mask on said item would be lifted and the weight would be visible. This of course may not be something possible or desireable for coding reasons, but it would once again make scales one heck of a useful item.

IN CLOSING:

I am giddy like a school girls when thinking about the possibility of scales. I love the idea!

My head hurts.....

GAME ON!!!!

[bubba_h0tep 10]

My 2 cents:

The scale should just be an interface between 2 people trading, no more, no less.

You put something in your side and hit ok, i value it and put what i think its worth in my box and hit ok. Have a decline button on both sides. Simple.

I had in idea about coins also.

In order to have a coin belong to a kingdom it has to be minted and identified as that kingdoms coin correct?

Well if anyone could create gold coins from a gold bar it would defeat the purpose of different kingdoms currency.

What if you had a "Minting" block that the leader of a group/king would put in a 5 digit number and a label. That "minting" block and any others with that unique code would produce a unique coin type called "Minecraftian" for example.

From then on whenever someone made a "minting" block, if they didn't put in those 5 digits from the King of Minecraft, he couldn't label his coins "Minecraftian"

That way the only money that the kingdom might use was his own "Minecraftian" coins.

Any metal could be used for coins, but they would all have the label of "Minecraftian" if they used the same 5 digit number.

I don't know, maybe different numbers for each coin type so you might have:

12345 - GOLD "Minecraftian Dubloons"

23456 - SILVER "Minecraftian Shillings"

34567 - COPPER "Minecraftian Pennies"

Sorry for the long post and slightly unrelated topic, but i had to get that idea out of my head.