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madflavius

Brewing, Distilling, and Viticulture: Alcohol!

70 posts in this topic

Summary

In brief, I believe there should be a significant new addition to agriculture: the fermentation and distillation of a variety of alcohols that add additional positive and negative effects in a manner similar to the "potion effects" of meals. Effectively, alcohols would replace potions with a subdued mechanic that lacks the game-breaking overpowered nature of vanilla potions by tempering each mixture with potent negative, as well as positive, effects.

As you will soon discover, the rest of this post is anything but brief. :o

Disclaimer

I recognize that alcohol has been discussed briefly in several other topics, but as there has yet to be a full and independent development of its value and its potential recipes and crafting methods, I decided to fill this niche.

Color Identification System

I will attempt to clearly mark any new mechanics, blocks, or items as such. Much of the benefit of adding alcohol in the way I propose is how it maintains a large portion of the existing framework of both vanilla and TFC. To demonstrate this, all currently-existing mechanics from TFC will be in green font color and all vanilla mechanics in blue. These should require very little additional coding to work properly. Those in goldenrod are ones I believe ought to be added, for reasons that will be clarified at length below, but I recognize that these would require sometimes-significant amounts of new code. Red text is reserved for those mechanics which I consider more dreams than feasible reality: from my limited knowledge of Java, mod authorship, or Minecraft's engine those which would take a significant amount of resources or may be entirely unfeasible.

Off we go! Each section is spoiler tagged for your scrolling convenience in the tradition of the great Jed (may he live forever). Further, responses and ideas which I feel fit the suggestion will be added to this post at my discretion.

Why Add Alcohol?

From a gameplay perspective, the inclusion of alcohol adds another layer of metaskill-based complexity to agriculture. By giving additional uses to both cereal crops and the products of fruit trees, as well as unique other crops like potatoes or honey, alcohol not only forces the player to chose between uses--introducing the element of prioritization to resource use, like with those first few ingots you scavenge from the ground--but also gives good reason for broader planting of different crops. Meals add much needed complexity, and do so in a wonderful way (as I've written in other threads), and alcohol would not only inspire those in SSP to travel, but would prompt trade and specialization in an SMP setting as well.

From a believability perspective, alcohol is one of the oldest beverages in the history of mankind, and arguably its single most important one as well. Mead-making probably predated agriculture itself, and the origins of beer date almost into prehistory, and for good reason: during the TFC era, the fermentation of cereals and fruits into alcohol was vital for food preservation, storage, and the health of large populations. Romans lived almost entirely on wine, watered down for the plebians, and garum--fermented fish sauce--covered the odors of spoiled meat and probably functioned almost as an antiseptic, giving a high standard of health unmatched again until the late Medieval period. Records show that the serfs of medieval England survived on little more than rye bread and ale, the latter of which saw the first usage of hops as an antibacterial preservative of sorts (partially by design, partially by accident). In other words, the inclusion of alcoholic beverages meshes perfectly with the existing world of TFC.

From an enjoyment perspective, I cannot speak to the enjoyment of others, but I would find this to be an absolutely fantastic addition. Having begun my own process of making mead IRL (I think I killed my yeast in the first batch though, heh...), there is something intensely satisfying in brewing or distilling that in game I believe would match the excitement of forging a new blade for the blacksmith. It also adds a huge level of character to towns or settlements--the local tavern, custom brews famous to one brewery, wars fought over a vintage of fine wine. The possibilities for player interaction, metaskill development, and overall enjoyment of the mod will increase dramatically.

General Crafting Processes

The RL Basics

At its most fundamental level, the process of creating alcohol involves a base, called mash in beers or spirits--made of cereal, fruit, or some starches--water, and yeast, combined together in an airtight container at a carefully maintained temperature for a specific period of time. The time--which may be weeks or months--allows the yeast to eat the base material, converting it into ethanol, and when enough ethanol has been created, the fermentation is stopped and the beverage is bottled. Beverages like beer and wine are made in this way, and they cannot exceed 20-25% ABV because too much ethanol will kill the yeast. In the modern day, some yeasts have been engineered to survive high ethanol levels, but these were not at all available in the TFC timeframe. These non-distilled beverages I will call beers and wines.

For distilled beverages (commonly called, and hereafter referred to as spirits), that initial beverage is taken and distilled by heating and condensation, thus removing water from the beverage and concentrating it. This is where the much higher alcohol content in distilled beverages enters the picture. Often, distilled beverages are sealed in wooden or metal casks to age and deepen their various flavors.

Making Beer

The initial process of making a beer or wine would begin with ordinary agriculture. Beers and wines can be made out of pretty much any fruit or cereal, including wheat, oats, barley, rye, rice, potatoes, pears, cherries, grapes, green apples, and red apples. Once harvested, these crops move in two separate tracks: fruits become wines and ciders, cereal crops become beers and ales. Some cereals (and potatoes) can also go directly to spirits; some spirits must be first be fermented like wines and then distilled. This is clarified under each Type of Alcohol, along with the specific recipe, below.

Cereal crops are crafted with the knife to provide the grains themselves, as usual, but after this step is where the process changes from bread-making. Historically, to create the malt that is used for beermaking, the manufacturer would lay the grains out on the floor to dry out to a low moisture content, then allow the grains to sprout. Once they sprouted, the grains would be gathered and then kiln-fired as the final preparation. At this point, the grain is ready for beer.

I think this could be mirrored rather closely in TFC. Much like charcoal can be set out as 1/10 blocks, the grains would be spread out on the ground (green for the already programmed charcoal code that may be able to be re-purposed, yellow for applying it to the various grains). I would argue that the ground would have to be smoothed stone, or raw stone (for a slight time increase, but good for early Stone Age brewers), but I can concede this point. The drying room would have to be covered from the sky or the brewer would suffer a large time increase in drying. Furthermore, the brewer could stack the grains higher, but the more spread out they are, the faster they dry.

The charcoal illustrates the drying cereals on the smoothed stone floor.

Posted Image

When the grain turns slightly green (just two stages of "growth" if you will), the grain is ready and now referred to as "green malt." The green malt would be gathered by hand or shovel and deposited in a Kiln, the first built structure of this suggestion. Kilns (which will hopefully exist for firing clay as well!) must be filled with charcoal like a bloomery, and once fired, the "green malt" is now plain old "malt." They will be roughly the size of bloomeries, with the same ability to increase their physical size to increase the load that can be fired at once.

Here is a potential model for the kiln. The watermelon block represents the bloomery-like block that detects the shape and handles output. The charcoal or wood (it would take logs too) and the unfired pottery/grain would be thrown in the hole in front and below the melon.

Posted Image

Next, the malt is loaded into the major new built structure of brewing, the Brewing Vat. The brewing vat is a built structure, like a bloomery, forge, or kiln, which requires a Spigot block (like the bloomery requires the bloomery block) in a similar position to the bloomery. Again, it's all designed to make it easier to both implement and to remember! The brewing vat is made of wood, a trapdoor on top , and the spigot block down below. It can be made in any configuration with the vertical passage in the middle.

Here are two potential Brewing Vats. The GUI would be functionally identical to the bloomery GUI, except that rather than temperature it would tick up with duration of ferment. The pine block (lighter color) represents the position of the spigot.

Posted Image

To start fermentation, the brewer would dump buckets of water in the top and throw in the malt, similar to the bloomery method of loading. Amounts will be critical (see Metagame Skill and Randomization for more details). The fermentation trigger is when the door is sealed shut--in other words, when the trapdoor is closed. The brewer can monitor the fermentation process via the spigot block. Much like the molten charcoal look when the bloomery is active, the texture could be a pale golden liquid texture.

Potential Spigot Block Recipe

Posted Image

Once the brewer was satisfied with the duration of the ferment, he or she opens the trapdoor, which ends the fermentation. The finished beer can then be extracted to barrels, mugs, goblets, or whatever else awesome drinking vessels strike your fancy.

Making Wine

Making wine would bear much similarity to beer-making. I toyed with the idea of making an additional built object for treading out the grapes, but I'm really trying hard not to overdo it (you wouldn't tell looking at the several thousand words I've written already...). So my idea for wine is to use the brewing vat as the treading vat as well as the fermentation chamber--a bit ahistorical, but it'd be fun. I don't know if this is feasible, but the player could actually have to throw the fruit into the vat, jump in on top of the pile (it would form like charcoal), and tread the grapes, jumping up and down for a bit until the texture changed to a consistent color. Then the remainder of the steps would continue like beer: closing the trapdoor, monitoring the fermentation via the spigot, and removing the end product in various storage containers.

For both beer and wine, one could use the spigot to test the product at various stages. By right clicking the spigot with a bowl, the brewer/viticulturist could take a small sample of the product to "taste-test", which would basically say what benefits the product would give were it to be bottled at that time, displaying a tooltip like the meals showing thirst, energy, and any potion effects it would impart.

It would be so wonderful to name each bottle, say "Chateau l'Flavius '09," but I know that's superfluous, unnecessary, and probably ridiculous to code given the limitations. Although I guess since enchanted items could be specially named with vanilla anvils, you could steal that functionality and treat finished bottles of beer, wine, or spirits as an enchanted bottle....but I digress.

Making Mead

No need for treading or malting here! Just a brewing vat, buckets of water, and some delicious honey, with the same fermentation process as beer. This of course presupposes the existence of

honeybees though...

Making Spirits

There are two kinds of spirits: those made from lower tier beverages, and those specially distilled. I clarify what each is in the

Types of Beverages list below. For the former, you take the lower tier beverage, for instance, a wine, and then deposit it in the Distiller. The Distiller is a somewhat complicated model (though I suppose it doesn't have to be!), and is crafted using numerous copper sheets (hooray, uses for copper once entering the Iron Age!). The distiller would bear more similarity to the Forge GUI, with a temperature gauge, and several different slots for charcoal/logs and the bottles of beverage. After placing the beverage in the distiller and heating it just right, the finished product comes out in the output.

Potential Distiller Model

Posted Image

Certain beverages, like vodka, are made purely from the mash to begin with, rather than from a finished drink. To distill this, the ingredient must be placed in the GUI with the appropriate amount of fuel, with a bottle in the output. Again, timing is critical, even more so with distilled beverages.

Effects

Overall, the effects of alcohol would bear resemblance to those available through meals, but with two key differences:

  • Stronger effects overall. If a meal can at best provide Jump Boost I, a beverage could provide Jump Boost II.
  • However, their disadvantage is that alcohols also can have negative effects, and the best positive effects can be paired with some nasty ones.
As a general rule, non-distilled alcohols decrease player thirst, which is one very important use for them. Distilled alcohols, on the other hand, actually increase thirst, so they are usually used for their effects rather than as a general beverage of choice. This is due (IRL as well) to the higher amount of ethanol by volume.

Distilled beverages also have the extremely negative chances for two potion effects, Nausea and Blindness due to their high concentration of alcohol. This could best be handled by the quality of the finished product; if not, it could most easily be handled as a random chance (1% chance of 1 min Blindness on consumption). If there could be increasing deleterious effects from over-consumption of alcohol (reaching saturation), I would be tickled pink, but I know that would be obnoxious to code and I'll just back away from that one slowly.

Types of Beverage

Each listed beverage has a spoiler tag that argues both for its TFC era-appropriate origin and name. The beverage name itself is linked to the Wikipedia article on the history of the beverage for the curious. Each beverage also has a rough outline of the specific ingredients or process to make it, eschewing amounts (how many grain per malt, how much malt to how much final product, etc)--that would be a great topic for discussion!

Ale

This is the big one, the savior of Europe during the Medieval period. Made with barley, following the standard beer fermentation cycle.

Etymology: From Old English "alu or aelu."

Origins: Ale, along with bread, was an important source of nutrition in the medieval world, particularly small beer, also known as table beer or mild beer, which was highly nutritious, contained just enough alcohol to act as a preservative, and provided hydration without intoxicating effects.

Beer

Made from Wheat, Rye, Oat, or Rice, made into malt and fermented in the Brewing Vat.

Etymology: Beer is an English original (well, Anglo-Saxon)!

Origins: In contention with mead for the title of the world's oldest beverage, at least back to 9500 BC; found in the Code of Hammurabi and other Mesopotamian literary sources.

Brandy

Brandy is made from any wine distilled in the Distiller.

Etymology: Shortened version of the term "brandywine"; derived from Dutch brandewijn, "burned wine."

Origins: The first distillation of alcohol for consumption purposes (other than medicinal or alchemical) was a brandy (distilled wine), although distillation of non-beverages began in the 3rd century BC at the latest. Brandy appeared in the 12th century AD in Europe and became widely popular by the 14th century AD.

Cider (Apple Wine)

Follows the wine process exactly. Technically apples are mashed using an apple press, but the vat method is sufficient for TFC, I believe.

Etymology: Cognates in Romance languages; "chistr" in Brittany; "cidre" in Normandy; "sagardo" in Basque.

Origins: Traditional beverage across Europe; origins uncertain but at very least early medieval. Widespread enjoyment of a fine beverage.

Mead

Mead is simply honey wine, and is heavily dependent on the inclusion of honeybees and apiaries into TFC. I would be so very happy if it were included. It follows the standard wine-making path outlined above, but without the treading step.

Etymology: From Old English "meodu".

Origins: The origins of mead are "lost to prehistory" and it is "regarded as the ancestor of all fermented drinks". Maguelonne Toussaint-Samat has observed that the first brewing of mead probably "antedat[ed] the cultivation of the soil."

Perry (Pear Cider)

Same as cider.

Etymology: The name comes from "pear," what more do you want? :P

Origins: First mentioned in Pliny; enjoyed for centuries across Europe.

Rum

(As suggested by achartran) This one is a wee bit outside of the time frame, but if we have sugar wine, it could conceivably be a straightforward progression to using the distillery. I submit that to get sugar in-game, rather than simply crafting the sugarcane, the cane must be heated. This produces both sugar and molasses (as a by-product). This molasses is then what is distilled and becomes rum.

Etymology: No one knows. Seriously, Wikipedia is full of theories. My favorite is that it comes from saccharum, the Latin word for "sugar."

Origins: Rum didn't fully come to be until the mid-1500s, when plantation slaves began to discover the tasty benefits of fermenting the by-product (molasses) of sugar refining. It became the staple drink of the colonies shortly thereafter.

Sake

Sake is rice wine, and it's a tough one. I really want to include it because I feel very Eurocentric at times, but the main ingredient that separates sake from Japanese rice beers is a mold called koji, which is sprinkled over the rice during the fermentation process. I would love any ideas for including sake without creating an entirely new item like "mold." Perhaps mushrooms...?

Etymology: In Japan, "sake" merely means "alcoholic beverage," while the beverage others call "sake" is in fact "nihonshu," or "Japanese liquor."

Origins: Sake appeared sometime before the 8th century AD, but unfortunately records are sketchy and historians have been unable to pin down a more exact time frame.

Sugar Wine

(As suggested by achartran) Following the standard wine track, this would use sugarcane and require the treading.

Etymology: Sugar wine was known by a number of different names throughout history; this is the simplest way to name it.

Origins: Marco Polo tried some near present-day Iran; Spanish and Portuguese explorers in the new world were offered it by the native peoples; the Malay people make a variant of it as well.

Vodka

Made purely in the distillery from potatoes or grains.

Etymology: From the diminutive form of the Slavic "voda" (water), thus "little water"

Origins: According to some sources, first production of vodka took place in the area of today's Russia in the late 9th century AD.

Whiskey

I have simplified whiskey somewhat for gameplay purposes. It can be made from any cereal-based beverage distilled in the Distiller.

Etymology: The word "whiskey" is an Anglicisation of "uisce beatha/uisge beatha" a phrase from the Goidelic branch of languages (Irish, Scottish Gaelic and Manx) meaning "water of life".

Origins: While whiskey was first consumed around the time of brandy's introduction, beginning when the Irish first learned of the Italian experiments with distilling to make "burned wine," the first written record of using the term "whiskey" is from the Irish Annals of Clonmacnoise in 1405. Bourbon (corn whiskey), functionally invented and named in America, will not be differentiated by that name in this suggestion, as the name only saw its origin in the 18th or 19th century AD.

Wine

Wine would require a new crop, grapes, which would be heavily dependent on the soil type, temperature, and rainfall. It follows, logically, the standard wine-making process.

Etymology: As Wikipedia puts it, "The English word "wine" comes from the Proto-Germanic *winam, an early borrowing from the Latin vinum, "wine" or "(grape) vine", itself derived from the Proto-Indo-European stem*win-o- (cf. Hittite: wiyana; Lycian: oino; Ancient Greek: οἶνος oinos; Aeolic Greek: ϝοῖνος woinos)." In other words, it's dang old.

Origins: Archaeologists are leaning towards the Late Neolithic era for the first cultivation and fermentation of wine grapes for wine. In other words, it's up there with beer and mead.

Metagame Skill and Randomization

Perhaps the most important aspect of this suggestion is to make it 1) enjoyable, 2) rewarding, and 3) complex, thus requiring skill from the player, both in siting their brewery/vineyard and in making the beverages.

Randomization

First, the question of randomization. I believe that the effects of the various alcohols should allow for a pseudo-random range of effects, like meals, but with a series of guidelines:

  • thirst values would be unchanged and standardized--distilled beverages always cost at least a certain amount of thirst, non-distilled will always allow you to regain at least some thirst.
  • Distilled beverages will always have more potent effects than non-distilled beverages, both positive and negative.
  • The effects cannot cancel each other out (aka, not running speed and slowness in the same drink). There would have to be a logic table, essentially, to prohibit bad combinations.
  • Distilled beverages must always have at least one negative and one positive effect; a particular non-distilled beverage might have effects beyond the thirst reduction and energy gain, but might also have positive effects (like meals).

Metagame Skill

Second, the question of metagame skill. Much like blacksmithing and the hammering of tools or weapons on the anvil requires a skilled command of your forge temperature, metal heat, the anvil itself, and a knowledge of your workshop setup to provide the best tools, brewing and viticulture will require significant skill. What I consider the best option from a gameplay perspective, but that which I know is incredibly complex given the way Minecraft stores item data, would be that there would be vast variety in the quality of ingredients due to geographic area, rainfall, temperature, and other factors. As I said, this would require tons of information to be stored in each item, but far more problematic than the amount of information is the question of stacking, always a perennial problem.

Therefore, I leave this question open for further discussion, but I do have an idea to offer of my own that does at least give a sense of the importance of location, even though not perfectly: vast variety in the final product brewed based on the location of the distillery by rainfall, temperature, and altitude. Hypothetically, I suppose, someone could bring inferior crops to a well-located brewery to actually brew or distill them, but this still maintains several advantages: 1) it is far, far easier to code than the other option, and 2) it still requires travel to find a good location, and strongly encourages players to build their vineyards themselves at the best location, rather than transporting in the vines or cereals.

The final major area of metagame skill comes in the actual fermentation itself. Since there is nearly infinite variety in the modern practice of brewing and viticulture, it is a perfect opportunity for TFC to randomize the fermentation values entirely. The final product will be heavily reliant upon the ambient temperature and the duration of fermentation. A good brewer would hover over his or her brew constantly, testing now and then with the spigot to find the perfect beverage for the needs of the community, whether it be a good effect or a thirst reduction or energy increase. The difference between a good and bad beverage can be fudged a bit with beers or wines, but the lines between where something is too distilled or not distilled enough can be catastrophic, and would have major negative effects. I would love further discussion of how to implement this precisely!

Well, there you have it, nearly four thousand words about why alcohol is awesome--I mean, would be a useful addition to TFC. I hope you enjoyed reading my ideas, and as always, I'd love discussion, further ideas, and questions about them. Cheers!

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Not finished reading but here is my only problem:

'It would be so wonderful to name each bottle, say "Chateau l'Flavius '09," but I know that's superfluous, unnecessary, and probably ridiculous to code given the limitations. Although I guess since enchanted items could be specially named with vanilla anvils, you could steal that functionality and treat finished bottles of beer, wine, or spirits as an enchanted bottle....but I digress.'

Thats a vanilla feature. the vanilla anvil can rename items. Simply adding a cheep TFC block in for renaming would suffice.(wine rack in this case?). It works with ALL items in vanilla

'If there could be increasing deleterious effects from over-consumption of alcohol (reaching saturation), I would be tickled pink, but I know that would be obnoxious to code and I'll just back away from that one slowly.'

I will concede on this a bit, however adding in two ticks(one the 'drunkenness' and the other a countdown for the drunkenness to decrement) on the player data file could actually handle this nicely. reusing the saturation code from food could theoretically fit this role and the issue becomes separating booze from normal food items.

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I Think this is a fantastic idea! For some reason I have also always wanted to brew beer in minecraft.

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getting shitfaced with a bunch of players on a server would be hilarious.

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I was going to make brewing thread a while ago, but I didn't have the motivation to give the detail it warranted, so I never did it. You did it more justice than I could've. So, thanks for doing it! :)

Also, why not rum? Sugar cane is already in the game, and it was around before Columbus "discovered" the Americas, it just wasn't called rum. There are reports of european explorers and conquerers drinking a "sugar wine" that one of the native peoples gave them, suggesting they had been making this beverage for a while. And considering that TFC doesn't actually take place in europe, I don't see why we shouldn't have rum in TFC. (This was according to my research, if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.)

(not done reading yet, I may edit this post at a later date if there are no posts after. Can't be double posting now, can I?)

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That is one surprisingly well written and thought-out idea.

I am only afraid it might be a little over-complicated.

Non the less, I support it fully. ;)

Gimme cider!! :D

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I was going to make brewing thread a while ago, but I didn't have the motivation to give the detail it warranted, so I never did it. You did it more justice than I could've. So, thanks for doing it! :)

Also, why not rum? Sugar cane is already in the game, and it was around before Columbus "discovered" the Americas, it just wasn't called rum. There are reports of european explorers and conquerers drinking a "sugar wine" that one of the native peoples gave them, suggesting they had been making this beverage for a while. And considering that TFC doesn't actually take place in europe, I don't see why we shouldn't have rum in TFC. (This was according to my research, if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.)

(not done reading yet, I may edit this post at a later date if there are no posts after. Can't be double posting now, can I?)

quite simply because it'd become a WHY IS THE RUM GONE remix loop for the next 50 years :D

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Agreed really cool. Maybe we could also have fruit juice too!

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Thats a vanilla feature. the vanilla anvil can rename items. Simply adding a cheep TFC block in for renaming would suffice.(wine rack in this case?). It works with ALL items in vanilla

...adding in two ticks(one the 'drunkenness' and the other a countdown for the drunkenness to decrement) on the player data file could actually handle this nicely. reusing the saturation code from food could theoretically fit this role and the issue becomes separating booze from normal food items.

True on both points. I'm still thinking within the limitations of the Bukkit API, and I forget we have access to the PlayerAPI as well. Since I'm not familiar with the capabilities of Forge/PlayerAPI, I'm trying to err on the side of ease...but don't get me wrong, both those things would be fantastic. I think naming vintages could have a huge effect on SMP servers; the capacity for RP and for trade seems infinite and incredibly fun. Couple the fun nature of named beverages with the actual potential positive effects of a well-sited brewery with a methodical and skilled brewer, and Chateau l'Flavius '09 Vintage could become an epic reality. ;)

add this one: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jenever YAY FOR CULTURE! btw, concentrated jenever was strong enough to eat through paper like acid :D

I wish I could, killster, that looks awesome from the Wiki article. Sadly, I don't see any evidence for an origin before the 16th century, and that's just after the cutoff date of 1500 AD. That's why I didn't add any gins before, simply because the variety of distilled beverages by 1500 was still very limited. :( Thanks for the idea though!

Also, why not rum? Sugar cane is already in the game, and it was around before Columbus "discovered" the Americas, it just wasn't called rum. There are reports of european explorers and conquerers drinking a "sugar wine" that one of the native peoples gave them, suggesting they had been making this beverage for a while. And considering that TFC doesn't actually take place in europe, I don't see why we shouldn't have rum in TFC. (This was according to my research, if I'm wrong, then I'm wrong.)

I do think rum would be awesome...much like Jenever, there's the historical problem. However, as a sugar wine did exist from antiquity--and not even just in the Americas, the Wiki article says that it was found in India and China as well--I think at the very least a sugar wine would be acceptable. I'll add both that and rum to the OP, with a caveat on rum understanding that it wasn't really distilled before the end of our timeline. Thanks for the idea!

getting shitfaced with a bunch of players on a server would be hilarious.

Yes. Very yes. I used a hacky bunch of Bukkit plugins (PotionsPlus, RecipeManager), to slap together some rather lame recipes and effects for alcohol within the limitations of Bukkit, and alcohol production rapidly became an extremely popular pastime on the server. ;)
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Summary

In brief, I believe there should be a significant new addition to agriculture: the fermentation and distillation of a variety of alcohols that add additional positive and negative effects in a manner similar to the "potion effects" of meals. Effectively, alcohols would replace potions with a subdued mechanic that lacks the game-breaking overpowered nature of vanilla potions by tempering each mixture with potent negative, as well as positive, effects.

As you will soon discover, the rest of this post is anything but brief. :o

Disclaimer

I recognize that alcohol has been discussed briefly in several other topics, but as there has yet to be a full and independent development of its value and its potential recipes and crafting methods, I decided to fill this niche.

Color Identification System

I will attempt to clearly mark any new mechanics, blocks, or items as such. Much of the benefit of adding alcohol in the way I propose is how it maintains a large portion of the existing framework of both vanilla and TFC. To demonstrate this, all currently-existing mechanics from TFC will be in green font color and all vanilla mechanics in blue. These should require very little additional coding to work properly. Those in goldenrod are ones I believe ought to be added, for reasons that will be clarified at length below, but I recognize that these would require sometimes-significant amounts of new code. Red text is reserved for those mechanics which I consider more dreams than feasible reality: from my limited knowledge of Java, mod authorship, or Minecraft's engine those which would take a significant amount of resources or may be entirely unfeasible.

Off we go! Each section is spoiler tagged for your scrolling convenience in the tradition of the great Jed (may he live forever). Further, responses and ideas which I feel fit the suggestion will be added to this post at my discretion.

Why Add Alcohol?

From a gameplay perspective, the inclusion of alcohol adds another layer of metaskill-based complexity to agriculture. By giving additional uses to both cereal crops and the products of fruit trees, as well as unique other crops like potatoes or honey, alcohol not only forces the player to chose between uses--introducing the element of prioritization to resource use, like with those first few ingots you scavenge from the ground--but also gives good reason for broader planting of different crops. Meals add much needed complexity, and do so in a wonderful way (as I've written in other threads), and alcohol would not only inspire those in SSP to travel, but would prompt trade and specialization in an SMP setting as well.

From a believability perspective, alcohol is one of the oldest beverages in the history of mankind, and arguably its single most important one as well. Mead-making probably predated agriculture itself, and the origins of beer date almost into prehistory, and for good reason: during the TFC era, the fermentation of cereals and fruits into alcohol was vital for food preservation, storage, and the health of large populations. Romans lived almost entirely on wine, watered down for the plebians, and garum--fermented fish sauce--covered the odors of spoiled meat and probably functioned almost as an antiseptic, giving a high standard of health unmatched again until the late Medieval period. Records show that the serfs of medieval England survived on little more than rye bread and ale, the latter of which saw the first usage of hops as an antibacterial preservative of sorts (partially by design, partially by accident). In other words, the inclusion of alcoholic beverages meshes perfectly with the existing world of TFC.

From an enjoyment perspective, I cannot speak to the enjoyment of others, but I would find this to be an absolutely fantastic addition. Having begun my own process of making mead IRL (I think I killed my yeast in the first batch though, heh...), there is something intensely satisfying in brewing or distilling that in game I believe would match the excitement of forging a new blade for the blacksmith. It also adds a huge level of character to towns or settlements--the local tavern, custom brews famous to one brewery, wars fought over a vintage of fine wine. The possibilities for player interaction, metaskill development, and overall enjoyment of the mod will increase dramatically.

General Crafting Processes

The RL Basics

At its most fundamental level, the process of creating alcohol involves a base, called mash in beers or spirits--made of cereal, fruit, or some starches--water, and yeast, combined together in an airtight container at a carefully maintained temperature for a specific period of time. The time--which may be weeks or months--allows the yeast to eat the base material, converting it into ethanol, and when enough ethanol has been created, the fermentation is stopped and the beverage is bottled. Beverages like beer and wine are made in this way, and they cannot exceed 20-25% ABV because too much ethanol will kill the yeast. In the modern day, some yeasts have been engineered to survive high ethanol levels, but these were not at all available in the TFC timeframe. These non-distilled beverages I will call beers and wines.

For distilled beverages (commonly called, and hereafter referred to as spirits), that initial beverage is taken and distilled by heating and condensation, thus removing water from the beverage and concentrating it. This is where the much higher alcohol content in distilled beverages enters the picture. Often, distilled beverages are sealed in wooden or metal casks to age and deepen their various flavors.

Making Beer

The initial process of making a beer or wine would begin with ordinary agriculture. Beers and wines can be made out of pretty much any fruit or cereal, including wheat, oats, barley, rye, rice, potatoes, pears, cherries, grapes, green apples, and red apples. Once harvested, these crops move in two separate tracks: fruits become wines and ciders, cereal crops become beers and ales. Some cereals (and potatoes) can also go directly to spirits; some spirits must be first be fermented like wines and then distilled. This is clarified under each Type of Alcohol, along with the specific recipe, below.

Cereal crops are crafted with the knife to provide the grains themselves, as usual, but after this step is where the process changes from bread-making. Historically, to create the malt that is used for beermaking, the manufacturer would lay the grains out on the floor to dry out to a low moisture content, then allow the grains to sprout. Once they sprouted, the grains would be gathered and then kiln-fired as the final preparation. At this point, the grain is ready for beer.

I think this could be mirrored rather closely in TFC. Much like charcoal can be set out as 1/10 blocks, the grains would be spread out on the ground (green for the already programmed charcoal code that may be able to be re-purposed, yellow for applying it to the various grains). I would argue that the ground would have to be smoothed stone, or raw stone (for a slight time increase, but good for early Stone Age brewers), but I can concede this point. The drying room would have to be covered from the sky or the brewer would suffer a large time increase in drying. Furthermore, the brewer could stack the grains higher, but the more spread out they are, the faster they dry.

The charcoal illustrates the drying cereals on the smoothed stone floor.

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When the grain turns slightly green (just two stages of "growth" if you will), the grain is ready and now referred to as "green malt." The green malt would be gathered by hand or shovel and deposited in a Kiln, the first built structure of this suggestion. Kilns (which will hopefully exist for firing clay as well!) must be filled with charcoal like a bloomery, and once fired, the "green malt" is now plain old "malt." They will be roughly the size of bloomeries, with the same ability to increase their physical size to increase the load that can be fired at once.

Here is a potential model for the kiln. The watermelon block represents the bloomery-like block that detects the shape and handles output. The charcoal or wood (it would take logs too) and the unfired pottery/grain would be thrown in the hole in front and below the melon.

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Next, the malt is loaded into the major new built structure of brewing, the Brewing Vat. The brewing vat is a built structure, like a bloomery, forge, or kiln, which requires a Spigot block (like the bloomery requires the bloomery block) in a similar position to the bloomery. Again, it's all designed to make it easier to both implement and to remember! The brewing vat is made of wood, a trapdoor on top , and the spigot block down below. It can be made in any configuration with the vertical passage in the middle.

Here are two potential Brewing Vats. The GUI would be functionally identical to the bloomery GUI, except that rather than temperature it would tick up with duration of ferment. The pine block (lighter color) represents the position of the spigot.

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To start fermentation, the brewer would dump buckets of water in the top and throw in the malt, similar to the bloomery method of loading. Amounts will be critical (see Metagame Skill and Randomization for more details). The fermentation trigger is when the door is sealed shut--in other words, when the trapdoor is closed. The brewer can monitor the fermentation process via the spigot block. Much like the molten charcoal look when the bloomery is active, the texture could be a pale golden liquid texture.

Potential Spigot Block Recipe

Posted Image

Once the brewer was satisfied with the duration of the ferment, he or she opens the trapdoor, which ends the fermentation. The finished beer can then be extracted to barrels, mugs, goblets, or whatever else awesome drinking vessels strike your fancy.

Making Wine

Making wine would bear much similarity to beer-making. I toyed with the idea of making an additional built object for treading out the grapes, but I'm really trying hard not to overdo it (you wouldn't tell looking at the several thousand words I've written already...). So my idea for wine is to use the brewing vat as the treading vat as well as the fermentation chamber--a bit ahistorical, but it'd be fun. I don't know if this is feasible, but the player could actually have to throw the fruit into the vat, jump in on top of the pile (it would form like charcoal), and tread the grapes, jumping up and down for a bit until the texture changed to a consistent color. Then the remainder of the steps would continue like beer: closing the trapdoor, monitoring the fermentation via the spigot, and removing the end product in various storage containers.

For both beer and wine, one could use the spigot to test the product at various stages. By right clicking the spigot with a bowl, the brewer/viticulturist could take a small sample of the product to "taste-test", which would basically say what benefits the product would give were it to be bottled at that time, displaying a tooltip like the meals showing thirst, energy, and any potion effects it would impart.

It would be so wonderful to name each bottle, say "Chateau l'Flavius '09," but I know that's superfluous, unnecessary, and probably ridiculous to code given the limitations. Although I guess since enchanted items could be specially named with vanilla anvils, you could steal that functionality and treat finished bottles of beer, wine, or spirits as an enchanted bottle....but I digress.

Making Mead

honeybees though...

No need for treading or malting here! Just a brewing vat, buckets of water, and some delicious honey, with the same fermentation process as beer. This of course presupposes the existence of

Making Spirits

Types of Beverages list below. For the former, you take the lower tier beverage, for instance, a wine, and then deposit it in the Distiller. The Distiller is a somewhat complicated model (though I suppose it doesn't have to be!), and is crafted using numerous copper sheets (hooray, uses for copper once entering the Iron Age!). The distiller would bear more similarity to the Forge GUI, with a temperature gauge, and several different slots for charcoal/logs and the bottles of beverage. After placing the beverage in the distiller and heating it just right, the finished product comes out in the output.

There are two kinds of spirits: those made from lower tier beverages, and those specially distilled. I clarify what each is in the

Certain beverages, like vodka, are made purely from the mash to begin with, rather than from a finished drink. To distill this, the ingredient must be placed in the GUI with the appropriate amount of fuel, with a bottle in the output. Again, timing is critical, even more so with distilled beverages.

Effects

Overall, the effects of alcohol would bear resemblance to those available through meals, but with two key differences:

  • Stronger effects overall. If a meal can at best provide Jump Boost I, a beverage could provide Jump Boost II.
  • However, their disadvantage is that alcohols also can have negative effects, and the best positive effects can be paired with some nasty ones.
As a general rule, non-distilled alcohols decrease player thirst, which is one very important use for them. Distilled alcohols, on the other hand, actually increase thirst, so they are usually used for their effects rather than as a general beverage of choice. This is due (IRL as well) to the higher amount of ethanol by volume.

Distilled beverages also have the extremely negative chances for two potion effects, Nausea and Blindness due to their high concentration of alcohol. This could best be handled by the quality of the finished product; if not, it could most easily be handled as a random chance (1% chance of 1 min Blindness on consumption). If there could be increasing deleterious effects from over-consumption of alcohol (reaching saturation), I would be tickled pink, but I know that would be obnoxious to code and I'll just back away from that one slowly.

Types of Beverage

Each listed beverage has a spoiler tag that argues both for its TFC era-appropriate origin and name. The beverage name itself is linked to the Wikipedia article on the history of the beverage for the curious. Each beverage also has a rough outline of the specific ingredients or process to make it, eschewing amounts (how many grain per malt, how much malt to how much final product, etc)--that would be a great topic for discussion!

Ale

This is the big one, the savior of Europe during the Medieval period. Made with barley, following the standard beer fermentation cycle.

Etymology: From Old English "alu or aelu."

Origins: Ale, along with bread, was an important source of nutrition in the medieval world, particularly small beer, also known as table beer or mild beer, which was highly nutritious, contained just enough alcohol to act as a preservative, and provided hydration without intoxicating effects.

Beer

Made from Wheat, Rye, Oat, or Rice, made into malt and fermented in the Brewing Vat.

Etymology: Beer is an English original (well, Anglo-Saxon)!

Origins: In contention with mead for the title of the world's oldest beverage, at least back to 9500 BC; found in the Code of Hammurabi and other Mesopotamian literary sources.

Brandy

Brandy is made from any wine distilled in the Distiller.

Etymology: Shortened version of the term "brandywine"; derived from Dutch brandewijn, "burned wine."

Origins: The first distillation of alcohol for consumption purposes (other than medicinal or alchemical) was a brandy (distilled wine), although distillation of non-beverages began in the 3rd century BC at the latest. Brandy appeared in the 12th century AD in Europe and became widely popular by the 14th century AD.

Cider (Apple Wine)

Follows the wine process exactly. Technically apples are mashed using an apple press, but the vat method is sufficient for TFC, I believe.

Etymology: Cognates in Romance languages; "chistr" in Brittany; "cidre" in Normandy; "sagardo" in Basque.

Origins: Traditional beverage across Europe; origins uncertain but at very least early medieval. Widespread enjoyment of a fine beverage.

Mead

Mead is simply honey wine, and is heavily dependent on the inclusion of honeybees and apiaries into TFC. I would be so very happy if it were included. It follows the standard wine-making path outlined above, but without the treading step.

Etymology: From Old English "meodu".

Origins: The origins of mead are "lost to prehistory" and it is "regarded as the ancestor of all fermented drinks". Maguelonne Toussaint-Samat has observed that the first brewing of mead probably "antedat[ed] the cultivation of the soil."

Perry (Pear Cider)

Same as cider.

Etymology: The name comes from "pear," what more do you want? :P

Origins: First mentioned in Pliny; enjoyed for centuries across Europe.

Rum

(As suggested by achartran) This one is a wee bit outside of the time frame, but if we have sugar wine, it could conceivably be a straightforward progression to using the distillery. I submit that to get sugar in-game, rather than simply crafting the sugarcane, the cane must be heated. This produces both sugar and molasses (as a by-product). This molasses is then what is distilled and becomes rum.

Etymology: No one knows. Seriously, Wikipedia is full of theories. My favorite is that it comes from saccharum, the Latin word for "sugar."

Origins: Rum didn't fully come to be until the mid-1500s, when plantation slaves began to discover the tasty benefits of fermenting the by-product (molasses) of sugar refining. It became the staple drink of the colonies shortly thereafter.

Sake

Sake is rice wine, and it's a tough one. I really want to include it because I feel very Eurocentric at times, but the main ingredient that separates sake from Japanese rice beers is a mold called koji, which is sprinkled over the rice during the fermentation process. I would love any ideas for including sake without creating an entirely new item like "mold." Perhaps mushrooms...?

Etymology: In Japan, "sake" merely means "alcoholic beverage," while the beverage others call "sake" is in fact "nihonshu," or "Japanese liquor."

Origins: Sake appeared sometime before the 8th century AD, but unfortunately records are sketchy and historians have been unable to pin down a more exact time frame.

Sugar Wine

(As suggested by achartran) Following the standard wine track, this would use sugarcane and require the treading.

Etymology: Sugar wine was known by a number of different names throughout history; this is the simplest way to name it.

Origins: Marco Polo tried some near present-day Iran; Spanish and Portuguese explorers in the new world were offered it by the native peoples; the Malay people make a variant of it as well.

Vodka

Made purely in the distillery from potatoes or grains.

Etymology: From the diminutive form of the Slavic "voda" (water), thus "little water"

Origins: According to some sources, first production of vodka took place in the area of today's Russia in the late 9th century AD.

Whiskey

I have simplified whiskey somewhat for gameplay purposes. It can be made from any cereal-based beverage distilled in the Distiller.

Etymology: The word "whiskey" is an Anglicisation of "uisce beatha/uisge beatha" a phrase from the Goidelic branch of languages (Irish, Scottish Gaelic and Manx) meaning "water of life".

Origins: While whiskey was first consumed around the time of brandy's introduction, beginning when the Irish first learned of the Italian experiments with distilling to make "burned wine," the first written record of using the term "whiskey" is from the Irish Annals of Clonmacnoise in 1405. Bourbon (corn whiskey), functionally invented and named in America, will not be differentiated by that name in this suggestion, as the name only saw its origin in the 18th or 19th century AD.

Wine

Wine would require a new crop, grapes, which would be heavily dependent on the soil type, temperature, and rainfall. It follows, logically, the standard wine-making process.

Etymology: As Wikipedia puts it, "The English word "wine" comes from the Proto-Germanic *winam, an early borrowing from the Latin vinum, "wine" or "(grape) vine", itself derived from the Proto-Indo-European stem*win-o- (cf. Hittite: wiyana; Lycian: oino; Ancient Greek: οἶνος oinos; Aeolic Greek: ϝοῖνος woinos)." In other words, it's dang old.

Origins: Archaeologists are leaning towards the Late Neolithic era for the first cultivation and fermentation of wine grapes for wine. In other words, it's up there with beer and mead.

Metagame Skill and Randomization

Perhaps the most important aspect of this suggestion is to make it 1) enjoyable, 2) rewarding, and 3) complex, thus requiring skill from the player, both in siting their brewery/vineyard and in making the beverages.

Randomization

First, the question of randomization. I believe that the effects of the various alcohols should allow for a pseudo-random range of effects, like meals, but with a series of guidelines:

  • thirst values would be unchanged and standardized--distilled beverages always cost at least a certain amount of thirst, non-distilled will always allow you to regain at least some thirst.
  • Distilled beverages will always have more potent effects than non-distilled beverages, both positive and negative.
  • The effects cannot cancel each other out (aka, not running speed and slowness in the same drink). There would have to be a logic table, essentially, to prohibit bad combinations.
  • Distilled beverages must always have at least one negative and one positive effect; a particular non-distilled beverage might have effects beyond the thirst reduction and energy gain, but might also have positive effects (like meals).

Metagame Skill

Second, the question of metagame skill. Much like blacksmithing and the hammering of tools or weapons on the anvil requires a skilled command of your forge temperature, metal heat, the anvil itself, and a knowledge of your workshop setup to provide the best tools, brewing and viticulture will require significant skill. What I consider the best option from a gameplay perspective, but that which I know is incredibly complex given the way Minecraft stores item data, would be that there would be vast variety in the quality of ingredients due to geographic area, rainfall, temperature, and other factors. As I said, this would require tons of information to be stored in each item, but far more problematic than the amount of information is the question of stacking, always a perennial problem.

Therefore, I leave this question open for further discussion, but I do have an idea to offer of my own that does at least give a sense of the importance of location, even though not perfectly: vast variety in the final product brewed based on the location of the distillery by rainfall, temperature, and altitude. Hypothetically, I suppose, someone could bring inferior crops to a well-located brewery to actually brew or distill them, but this still maintains several advantages: 1) it is far, far easier to code than the other option, and 2) it still requires travel to find a good location, and strongly encourages players to build their vineyards themselves at the best location, rather than transporting in the vines or cereals.

The final major area of metagame skill comes in the actual fermentation itself. Since there is nearly infinite variety in the modern practice of brewing and viticulture, it is a perfect opportunity for TFC to randomize the fermentation values entirely. The final product will be heavily reliant upon the ambient temperature and the duration of fermentation. A good brewer would hover over his or her brew constantly, testing now and then with the spigot to find the perfect beverage for the needs of the community, whether it be a good effect or a thirst reduction or energy increase. The difference between a good and bad beverage can be fudged a bit with beers or wines, but the lines between where something is too distilled or not distilled enough can be catastrophic, and would have major negative effects. I would love further discussion of how to implement this precisely!

Well, there you have it, nearly four thousand words about why alcohol is awesome--I mean, would be a useful addition to TFC. I hope you enjoyed reading my ideas, and as always, I'd love discussion, further ideas, and questions about them. Cheers!

My God... Mister Madflavius, your organization clearly obliterates my organization! This suggestion and the format is so great that I stopped reading altogther just to simply procure this positive post. You impressed me with your spoilers and proofreading. I suspect your time in the Forums will be a highly great one. Also...

Welcome to the TerraFirmaCraft Forums, Mister Madflavius!

-Sda209

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I like the idea of adding brewing but i don't think alcoholic beverages is the only way to go here.

In my world, an alcoholic beverage (alcohol in general) has only a few effects no matter what kind of alcoholic beverage it is.

Positive

  • You feel relaxed.
  • You get a warm feeling inside. (false positive, but it can have a psychological effect)
  • You might feel happier. (Depends on external factors)
  • You might get braver. (Also depends)
  • You might sleep better. (Another one of those "it depends")
Negative
  • Your body temperature falls as warm blood is pumped to the extremities, even in cold weather. (Though temperature in TFC doesn't work like that yet)
  • Your reactions are slowed.
  • Your balance is impaired.
  • Your judgement is affected.
  • Your stamina is affected.
All of the above negative effects can be simulated in TFC in one way or another. For example, in the case of balance, you can't walk/run straight. Or with judgement, you see a pig but it's actually a creeper. (Fun times!)

To be frank, alcohol is a social interaction tool or "medicine" for the mentally "challenged". The positive benefits are not really applicable in TFC, you would be better off drinking it behind your monitor with a few friends while playing TFC and having a laugh. The negative effects however have a real application in TFC.

If we wanna have some kind of application in TFC then we could say you get a STRENGTH boost and some FILLING in return for most, if not all of, the negative effects. And when you sleep you gain more ENERGY. (I don't even know how energy works in TFC right now)

...

However, what i would really like to see is Coffee, sugar drinks (read: energy drinks), remedies (herbal potions), anabolic steroids (Testosterone, in a medieval setting) and other chemical boosters. Alcohol would just be an addendum to that.

Further on, drinking water near a bloomery (read: within a few hundred blocks) would poison you. That's where beer comes in, drinking beer would be the only source of liquid replenishment in such an area as was (is) the case with our water sources since around the 17th century in large towns and cities.

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I like the idea of adding brewing but i don't think alcoholic beverages is the only way to go here.

In my world, an alcoholic beverage (alcohol in general) has only a few effects no matter what kind of alcoholic beverage it is.

Positive

  • You feel relaxed.
  • You get a warm feeling inside. (false positive, but it can have a psychological effect)
  • You might feel happier. (Depends on external factors)
  • You might get braver. (Also depends)
  • You might sleep better. (Another one of those "it depends")
Negative
  • Your body temperature falls as warm blood is pumped to the extremities, even in cold weather. (Though temperature in TFC doesn't work like that yet)
  • Your reactions are slowed.
  • Your balance is impaired.
  • Your judgement is affected.
  • Your stamina is affected.
All of the above negative effects can be simulated in TFC in one way or another. For example, in the case of balance, you can't walk/run straight. Or with judgement, you see a pig but it's actually a creeper. (Fun times!)

To be frank, alcohol is a social interaction tool or "medicine" for the mentally "challenged". The positive benefits are not really applicable in TFC, you would be better off drinking it behind your monitor with a few friends while playing TFC and having a laugh. The negative effects however have a real application in TFC.

If we wanna have some kind of application in TFC then we could say you get a STRENGTH boost and some FILLING in return for most, if not all of, the negative effects. And when you sleep you gain more ENERGY. (I don't even know how energy works in TFC right now)

...

However, what i would really like to see is Coffee, sugar drinks (read: energy drinks), remedies (herbal potions), anabolic steroids (Testosterone, in a medieval setting) and other chemical boosters. Alcohol would just be an addendum to that.

Further on, drinking water near a bloomery (read: within a few hundred blocks) would poison you. That's where beer comes in, drinking beer would be the only source of liquid replenishment in such an area as was (is) the case with our water sources since around the 17th century in large towns and cities.

Both the positive and negative effects should be one whole buff besides the sleep and courage effects, for the believability factor. Would be very amusing if the player is a very gay (I am using the term's original definition, happy) drunkard that mistakens hostile mobiles for passive animal mobiles.

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that'd be one hell of a debuff, swapping textures without you knowing it, making hostiles look like peacefuls and reverse ;D

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Maybe the possible buffs could be

  • Faster mining speed (being happy makes it feel as though time is moving faster than it really it)
  • Strength boost (You are not afraid of hurting your hands due to being loopy)
  • Increased hunger health and thirst for a brief time until they fall really quickly for a little bit (You can't judge your hunger/thirst)
  • Monsters have a chance of being are afraid of you because they think you are insane.
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Maybe the possible buffs could be

  • Faster mining speed (being happy makes it feel as though time is moving faster than it really it)
  • Strength boost (You are not afraid of hurting your hands due to being loopy)
  • Increased hunger health and thirst for a brief time until they fall really quickly for a little bit (You can't judge your hunger/thirst)
  • Monsters have a chance of being are afraid of you because they think you are insane.

My intent was to use the currently existing potion buffs and debuffs, which would make Bioxx's life a lot easier. Since this suggestion is admittedly quite large in new blocks and mechanics, this would provide a simpler way to integrate something that already exists in the code (the potion effects).

Positive:

Speed - increase player FOV and walking speed

Haste - arm swings faster, blocks break faster

Strength - increases damage dealt with melee attacks

Instant Health - instant health gain

Jump Boost - allows the player to jump higher

Regeneration - causes health to regenerate over time

Resistance - reduces all incoming damage by 20%

Fire resistance - makes the p layer resistant to fire and lava

Water breathing - causes air meter to be constantly full while underwater

Invisibility - mobs can't see you, player model vanishes

Night vision - increases brightness

Negative:

Slowness - contracts player FOV and slows walking speed

Mining Fatigue - arm swings slower, blocks break slower

Instant damage - instant health loss

Nausea - causes the view to wobble similarly to using a portal

Blindness - creates thick black fog (like void fog) around the player and prevents sprinting and critical hits

Hunger - causes food meter to deplete faster

Weakness - lowers attack power

Poison - does damage over time that can't kill you

Wither - damage over time that can kill you

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Easy solution to label problem. Item+paper+scribing table+ink=new label. Any objections to that?

Edit:We would need a new slot in the scribing table as well.

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Summary

In brief, I believe there should be a significant new addition to agriculture: the fermentation and distillation of a variety of alcohols that add additional positive and negative effects in a manner similar to the "potion effects" of meals. Effectively, alcohols would replace potions with a subdued mechanic that lacks the game-breaking overpowered nature of vanilla potions by tempering each mixture with potent negative, as well as positive, effects.

As you will soon discover, the rest of this post is anything but brief. :o/>/>

]

Well, there you have it, nearly four thousand words about why alcohol is awesome--I mean, would be a useful addition to TFC. I hope you enjoyed reading my ideas, and as always, I'd love discussion, further ideas, and questions about them. Cheers!

First of all, i rarely ever read walls like that. I mean.... Were you trying to keep out invading hordes of Mongols with that wall? Lol. Get it?

Seriously... That was impressive. Very well thought out and it has the gears in my head whirring.

I support this 500% not only for that fact that this adds more use for already existing materials, but adds greater value to crops for economically motivated servers. It is fantastic!

I would also like to throw in that the production of strait ethanol and/or other forms of alcohol would be vital in alchemy and medicines, via extractions, and catalysts. The introduction of brewing would be most welcome as far as i am concerned!!!!!

Bravo, MadFlavius.

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dont change the OP. ever. I like it like this. :)

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This is beautiful. Good job.

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That is one surprisingly well written and thought-out idea.

I am only afraid it might be a little over-complicated.

I actually think it is rather simple, just a very good (detailed) post, Jed level actually. (one of the highest compliments a suggestion gets here, if you are new here. Not talking to you specifically, just a lot of people showed up here after the golden age of Jed and other veterans of the suggestion forum. Although Jed seems to be back somewhat now, but I haven't seen any new suggestions from him yet.)

If you knew the way I was going to suggest, flavius, you would understand that this is actually a really simple and good way of doing it. The actual process for brewing requires a lot of complex pipe systems and many separate machines. In a game like this, simple but believable is much better, and I believe that this is a fairly simple which is suited perfectly to how TFC does things (multiblock structures and modeled function "blocks" that aren't just a textured block.)

(Sorry if this seems like a disjointed/confusing/late response, I started it last night and just got around to finishing it.)

Also, yay! Sugar wine was added! :D

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I actually think it is rather simple, just a very good (detailed) post, Jed level actually.

...

If you knew the way I was going to suggest, flavius, you would understand that this is actually a really simple and good way of doing it. The actual process for brewing requires a lot of complex pipe systems and many separate machines. In a game like this, simple but believable is much better, and I believe that this is a fairly simple which is suited perfectly to how TFC does things (multiblock structures and modeled function "blocks" that aren't just a textured block.)

Thanks, achartran! That was my main guiding principle while designing the system, maintaining a general sense of the actual requirements and process of brewing and distilling, but avoiding messy new complex coded systems wherever possible. I generally see this as a potential replacement for potions, and thus able to avoid trying to mess with new effects. I know just (barely) enough Java to have a decent understanding of when something would be obnoxious and needlessly over-the-top...Bioxx and dunk have already done such great things that I don't want to seem ungrateful with a sort of "Imma let you finish, but my idea is the greatest suggestion of all time and I want all new mechanics now!" ;)

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, just a lot of people showed up here after the golden age of Jed and other veterans of the suggestion forum. Although Jed seems to be back somewhat now, but I haven't seen any new suggestions from him yet.)

We are going to need more veterans... and initiate another Golden Age of Veterans!

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Golden Ages only happen during the summer. Nice try though.

Edit:800th post.

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