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madflavius

Brewing, Distilling, and Viticulture: Alcohol!

70 posts in this topic

If we are talking about pre-modern societies, alcohol did have an important role, since it was the only commonly available beverage that was safe to drink, at least in Western societies. Sure, it didn't have to be VERY alcoholic (in fact, due to how ethanol metabolism works, if you want to be hydrated, it's better if it doesn't have much alcohol), but it worked, even if only because the first step in manufacturing was boiling the water.As for fuel, sure, it's not efficent, but if it's the only fuel you have, it's better than nothing.Meanwhile, from gameplay perspective, it benefits more settlement-centric or roleplay-centric multiplayer, and that's always a nice thing.Besides, it's been already coded in, and it doesn't damage any other feature, so your argument is irrelevant by now.

 

Alcohol and 'safe to drink' should never be used in a same sentence - that's just a blatant lie.

 

If you have an ability to mass produce alcohol for fuel - there is no chance you don't have any more efficient fuel - that is just how it goes.

 

Don't dig rpg value in alcohol, considering that neither of us really lived in such made-up society to 'immerse in spirit' of stupidity

 

The fact that it is already coded in means nothing. As experience tells - what's been coded in - can as easily be coded out. Especially for being utterly flipping useless as it is in the current developer's version. Not only it is unrealistic in mechanic of production AND serves NO purpose - with all the bugs lying around I see no reason to work on something useless while so many issues aren't fixed. And trust me - I've tested couple of recent versions - there is A LOT of issues. But when Emris in iirc notes them and get Dunk's responses like "I don't really care" - I have to question the motive behind adding something useless instead of caring for actuality.

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Even though it probably doesn't matter now, I have to say that alcohol serves no purpose in either real or digital life. And anyone who claims that it is actually efficient in anything (including being a fuel, medical base, disinfectant, etc.) is just lying to himself and didn't make any worthwhile research on the subject.

 

Dogmatic much? Alcohol has an integral importance in social and cultural life, and has throughout all of human existence. Rites of passage, socialization, as a food source (see Pyramids; Egypt), etc. Do you know this thing called ... enjoyment? There are entire meaningful cultural constructs that exist around various forms of alcohol. Your statement is so misguided it boggles the mind.

 

Back on topic, as someone who does enjoy drinking alcohol from time to time, I love the mechanic being added. Both from a realism point of view (since alcohol has been produced and consumed for millenia), and from the perspective of variety; which is one of my most favorite aspects of TFC.

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Alcohol and 'safe to drink' should never be used in a same sentence - that's just a blatant lie.

well actually, back then, that was actually kind of true, seince they had very poor water purification/filtration processes at best, water was usually not great to drink, as it was often contaminated.

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Redacted. Not going to participate in unnecessary demagoguery with people unwilling to study the subject.

Edited by Jee-Host{gm}
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And you tell me about being misguided? Some people enjoy cutting themselves. Some people enjoy cutting others. That's an enjoyment too, isn't it? Alcohol is effective in one thing - killing brain cells. I guess if person lacks the ability to use them - that's not much of a loss. But, as I said - freedom to be an idiot is everybody's own personal choice. I've just expressed my opinion so I'm not going to participate in a flame war against ignorance. Not in a game forum anyway.

 

 

Yes, you are misguided ... intensely so. Attempting to equate cutting oneself (or others) with imbibing alcoholic substances is infantile. Simple enjoyment was one small characteristic I mentioned, Flame wars exist once rational discourse has been discarded. You've chosen to discard ration. All you have done is thus far is this "alcohol sucks, and anyone who disagrees is an idiot."

 

Thus far your comments exhibit emotional, irrational, and indefensible idiocy.  Again, alcohol exists, and has existed, as a cultural hallmark for all of human existence. I suggest you shut your trap until you are better educated. 

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Redacted. Not going to participate in unnecessary demagoguery with people unwilling to study the subject.

Edited by Jee-Host{gm}
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I'm going to respond once more to your comments, just for clarity's sake, for other people, not you, because you either lack a fundamental understanding of anything that I've written heretofore, or you are simply not emotionally stable. Now you've called me an idiot (indirectly) stupid (fairly directly) a "casual," (which serves only to attempt to marginalize) and a troll. 

 

Simple enjoyment, huh. You know how simple enjoyment from mate tea or smoking pot got blown out of proportion? Now there are certain myth going about either of them. People are stupid - they'll believe anything they wish to believe in or anything they are afraid might be true. And being an idiot or being lazy is certainly easier than the other way around. So naturally people are more drawn to easy ways. Why study and check thing personally when you can just hear some propaganda horse apple and suddenly become an expert. And guess what - any 'cultural' drinker is such an 'expert'. Even more so, just like drug addict - he pull everyone he can get his hands on along with him. Been there, seen that in many various cases. Not going to ever again.

 

This meandering and mostly senseless paragraph is what 'buttsore" actually looks like. 

 

Now actually read some literature on how alcohol affects organism. There are plenty of actual medical professionals who wrote about it. For example - famed surgeon Fyodor Uglov, who with his views you've just called infantile lived and worked (saved lives) for more than a hundred years. Or study intently the Prohibition time in USA (and how was it brought about) - maybe something will in fact click for a change. If you don't know any better - I suggest you stop making yourself look ignorant. If you can't provide experimental easily demonstrable facts - then - oh, well. Not my problem. I did my research, I've actually checked many of those pieces of data to the best of my ability. Now if you want to get into technicalities (how alcohol affects blood, how it affects brain, how it affects behavior and so forth) - read up on the subject prior to calling someone misguided. From this point - I'm ignoring your troll behavior. Happy go lucky.

 

What I called infantile was YOU attempting to equate drinking alcohol with cutting oneself. That's an absurd comparison that has no basis in reality. You've ignored most of what I wrote about alcohol, either that or you have a language barrier that prohibits your understanding. In either case, I didn't call anyone's views infantile. I called your attempt at spinning a simple fact; that one viable use of alcohol is enjoyment; into a harmful act that has not value whatsoever, infantile. Such an absurd attempt is childish. It serves no basis in any rational discourse. But then, I am not sure that you are trying to be rational.

 

As to provide experimental easily demonstrable facts ... for what? That alcohol actually serves a purpose? You speak rife with ignorance about the entire framework of human history and alcohol's place within it, and yet call me ignorant? There are many studies, and if you actually did any research you would already know this, that show long-term, beneficial HEALTH and LONGEVITY effects of moderate alcohol consumption. Arguing with you is akin to arguing with someone who is claiming that the world is flat, and who is citing a thousand-year old papyrus scroll as proof. The science is out there. The data are there. Horse, meet water. Please drink. 

 

Let's go back to the start.  You said this: "I have to say that alcohol serves no purpose in either real or digital life"

And this: There is no point to adding alcohol in any way, shape or form in TFC other than being a gimmick that yet again serves not actual realistic purpose (except making oneself an actual idiot).

 

If you said "alcohol has harmful effects" there would be no argument.

 

I answered: Alcohol has an integral importance in social and cultural life, and has throughout all of human existence. Rites of passage, socialization, as a food source (see Pyramids; Egypt), etc.

 

Perhaps you lack an understanding of cultural rites of passage and the role alcohol plays and has played over all of human existence, in addition to the other traits also mentioned, more of which can be dredged. The bottom line is this: Your statement, that alcohol serves no purpose in either real or digital life, is utterly absurd, is wrong, was made dogmatically, and without any foundation of fact. Additionally, in making the statement you also STATED, not implied, but explicitly stated, that any other opinion is idiotic and/or stupid. 

 

You keep using those words. I do not think they mean what you think they mean. 

 

 

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Redacted. Not going to participate in unnecessary demagoguery with people unwilling to study the subject.

 

 

You keep using this word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

(I see what you did there, BTW!)

 

@'unwilling to study the subject' - give us your sources. Can be in Russian, if you must, though English would be preferable. Otherwise your assertion that other participants are unwilling to study the subject are essentially non-falsifiable, and as such, is essentially merely an ad hominem argument. Which is a roundabout way of saying that for the purposes of the discussion, it's a load of bull.

 

 

Alcohol and 'safe to drink' should never be used in a same sentence - that's just a blatant lie.

 

Perhaps I should have specified that, unlike what you seem to think, in common usage alcohol is used to refer to ethanol, not methanol. Or perhaps someone should enlighten you that even fresh, clean water has an LD50. Or perhaps I should stop pretending you're not a diehard dogmatic crusader. If someone gave you a choice of drinking either a gulp of swamp water or vodka, the latter is much more safe to drink. And that's discounting non-distilled alcoholic beverages, which have much lower PPV.

 

If you want to keep up with the line of reasoning that 'yes, but alcohol is bad for you as well, so it's unsafe to drink if you drink too much!' - so is water. It's called water toxicity. Google it. If you have a choice between alcohol or fresh, clean water, water is quite obviously the healthier choice. However, if your choice is between dirty water, alcohol, or death of thirst, there is one option that is not likely to kill you. Hint: it's alcohol.

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I love it! I find that a separate construction for mashing the grapes/fruits/whatever would add a little fun to it. 

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What if you allowed alcohols to be added to meals like foods? Though, it should probably have a very low or no filling value, but could have a higher chance of giving effects?

 

That could give an actual use to alcohol, beyond just enjoyment or straight up potion effects.

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wellll, if someone -cough dunk cough- would stop making everyone in TFC drink like butterflies, we might actually need to drink things to keep our thirst up.

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yeah, butterfly drinking makes bottles pointless

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Yeah, most likely at least after he adds berries (if he still plans to), and probably herbs as well.I'd love to have it in the end of development at least.

 

NOO! He cant add berries! I don't want another Age of Empires game!!

(Age of empires is awesome)

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I always figured it would be ridiculously easy to take the code for making tannin/curing leather could be reimplemented for brewing. It would be simple, and actually a bit realistic since wine is usually fermented in barrels anyway.

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Very good idea. In my ideas post, I think need add alcogol, because wet alcogol bandages have little better for survial. I not good with English, you wrote something about glass mugs?(they are more elongated than the bottle and have a large capacity!) If yes, the for full fill, you need half a bottle of vodka, rum, ale, etc. -  to soak bandage. Not only cider, mead, sake. And I can create textures users to see the idea in picture. For confirmation: Ale in glass mug: post-4106-0-29954400-1374349513.png:3

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Hey, is there anyone here who checked this out yet?

 

I mean the latest development, way it has been done.

 

I did.

 

 

Now, what I found out is that you put, let's say barley (since I tested that), into a barrel full or rather filled with water. Then it becomes in a while, surprise, surprise, beer. I didn't find a way to make a distiller, yet. It might be done already though, I didn't looked for that recipe much.

 

Once you have a barrel of beer you can put it into glass bottles, then you can drink it.  And get drunk, get weak, get sick, lose vision, but no, at least not yet, you cannot restore your thirst with it which in the other hand drops much faster now.

 

 

This was the state of implementation on Tue, 9th of July 2013 at 07:01:07  -0400 UTC

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Hey, is there anyone here who checked this out yet?

 

I mean the latest development, way it has been done.

 

I did.

 

 

Now, what I found out is that you put, let's say barley (since I tested that), into a barrel full or rather filled with water. Then it becomes in a while, surprise, surprise, beer. I didn't find a way to make a distiller, yet. It might be done already though, I didn't looked for that recipe much.

 

Once you have a barrel of beer you can put it into glass bottles, then you can drink it.  And get drunk, get weak, get sick, lose vision, but no, at least not yet, you cannot restore your thirst with it which in the other hand drops much faster now.

 

 

This was the state of implementation on Tue, 9th of July 2013 at 07:01:07  -0400 UTC

 

 

My implementation of alcohol wasn't inspired by this thread, so you won't find any distilleries.

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Oh, ok, I've checked it.

 

So it goes like this:

 

You put X in a water barrel and get Y.

 

X |   Y

-------------------|-----------------

potato     | vodka

wheat grain   | whiskey

rye grain | rye whiskey

green apple   | cider

rice grain | sake

sugar   | rum

 

 

... you won't find any distilleries.

 

Excuse me for increasing confusion mentioning not implemented items before.

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Alcohol is already in 76, it's just in an unusable state, so you aren't really mentioning items that aren't yet released when talking about the recipes to create it. Also either apple works for cider, not just green.

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