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weylin

Potentially helpful smithing stuff (spoilers)

38 posts in this topic

Edit By Bioxx: This has been addressed in the past. Raw numbers are against the rules. Always have been, always will be. The exception being that I've provided the raw numbers personally.

Member suspended from making new posts for 24 hours. I don't have very many rules. You guys can derail threads all you want and you never hear me complain, but this is my one sticking point. Simply don't do it.

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i am not sure where you got those numbers, but if they are in any way codewise related

i advise you to delete these immediatly!!!

Bioxx does not like numbers,

(He specifically forbid the posting of any codewise related numbers and values regarding TFC on this forum)

and neither does Dunk :( .

And they are the creators of this mod, so its a no go.

But i have noticed that ingots do not need to be very precisely hammmered, anything in the vicinity will do.

Edit: Lets not forget our awesome elf Music creator :D

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These are NOT from the code.

These were gathered after several hours of experimentation, I figured out that you could use the value of smaller actions to gauge the impact of the larger ones.

Again, NO CODE WAS READ. This was done strictly through in-game means.

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Whew!! :D metaskills make me happy :P:D

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this will still be disliked by the authors of the mod purely because you just give away the entire purpose of finding out metallurgy with these numbers. in each server there are varying levels of metalsmiths, but with this, the first noob could become the best metalsmith, which is NOT going to be popular

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The only difference between a terrible metal smith and one who works perfectly is a starting durability between 90% and 100%

If this is a big concern, think of some solutions to make it basically impossible to break down the smithing puzzle as I did.

The fact still stands though that even when armed with this information, you still need to figure out the solution to a particular problem. It's not advanced math or anything.

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i appreciate the effort but i'm not gonna read that. i'd rather learn through experimentation

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The only difference between a terrible metal smith and one who works perfectly is a starting durability between 90% and 100%

If this is a big concern, think of some solutions to make it basically impossible to break down the smithing puzzle as I did.

The fact still stands though that even when armed with this information, you still need to figure out the solution to a particular problem. It's not advanced math or anything.

Yeah, I agree with the general sentiment of the others, but the difference right now is too damn minor to matter. Now, were the best smiths capable of producing 50% more effective picks I'd definitely see reason to get upset personally, as it is this wouldn't make enough of a difference to matter.

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Removed by Ditto.
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Wooooo, I read only half of your post and then stopped to not see the numbers. Really, guy, don't give us raw numbers, not even if you got them from experimentation. This way you spoil the game for many players, me too. I don't want to know the numbers. And Dunk said that he doesn't want numbers, just approximations, like the one of Ditto ^. If you really need to post numbers, then at least post them inside a spoiler so that omly players that want to see them can see them. Ok? Now I need to forget all again...

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Well, this in itself is a case in point reason why Bioxx added random recipes based on seed. Regardless of the intentions, this information shouldn't be posted!

I would encourage you to remove those equations before Papa Dunk get up on home. :/

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Wow guys, hostile much?

So what if he gave numbers? Even if you were to use them, you'd still have to screenshot and calculate the number of pixels between the green and red markers for EVERY tool. It wouldn't even be worth the time, and you can get perfect tools every time using a trick the almighty Spumwack showed in his smithing tutorial. Not only that, metal no longer cools in an anvil slot, so you're not even pressed for time.

TLDR: These numbers are quite useless anyways, so don't be so hostile :P

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~snip~.

You do realize that there was a spoiler written into the title of the post right?

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Ok. Luckily i lost my glasses, so i barely see those numbers... after closing my eyes. Look: they might be really useless, they might have been got legitly, but that doesn't changes the fact that people won't like this to be here. I'm not hating on this, 'cause i basically have no idea what so ever what those numbers are. But if everyone freaks out like this, there is a reason... could you please at least place the numbers in spoilers?

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You do realize that there was a spoiler written into the title of the post right?

most peoplle probably read spoiler and think, "Well, not like they're gonna give us the exact sequence for every tool.."

yet he pretty much did just that.

I personaly figured out this table for smithing a long time ago, but I never shared it so that smithing perfect tools was still an achievement for other people. even though this was gathered in game and not from the code, I think dunk and bioxx are still gonna be kinda mad. It ruins the point of learning how to make great tools for yourself.

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You do realize that there was a spoiler written into the title of the post right?

Of course, but it's not enough. Someone can enter here thinking about a topic that contains spoilers, then he thinks "Oh, good I can enter here" And then he sees these numbers in open air and...you know...
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Someone can enter here thinking about a topic that contains spoilers, then he thinks "Oh, good I can enter here"

Posted Image

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spoilers as in, in spoiler tags is what I think Wolf means.

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I know, i just felt like posting that meme somewhere

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spoilers as in, in spoiler tags is what I think Wolf means.

I think this:

Why did you open this spoiler? It was only to show you what I thought! Close it!!!!!

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There really needs to be something more that SMACKS you in the face when you enter these forums that states: Do not post numbers. I don't remember seeing anything, and sure don't read those threads that say, 'Read this before posting!' Just saying... Far too many people come in here with numbers, not knowing that it is not what the developers want being shown here. I think if everyone knew that, we'd have less of these. <-- I didn't know about this rule until people starting complaining in a thread when someone posted numbers...

On the topic though, I understand both sides. Obviously people don't want numbers. But it doesn't tell you how to make a perfect tool! Even if you stared those numbers in the face and memorized them, it wouldn't mean the mini-game would be completely fixed for you now! You'd still have to do calculations to figure out how to work the ingot for the tool... And if you've spent any amount of time on smithing this shouldn't matter anyways. I don't remember what the names are of the buttons, but I sure as hell know how much they push the marker! That's almost like saying I know button 10 moves the marker 6 spaces to the right... Just put a number 6 on it! I have a combination of button clicks to shape an ingot (it's not hard), that seems almost cheaty in itself.. So maybe we need some randomness in the aspect of the game as well?

Ok I need to stop talking... Sure, take the numbers down. Don't spoil it for the people who are sensitive to this.

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I thought that posting numbers applied to hidden values in the code.

These numbers are necessary if you want to make a perfect tool.

I made a "cheat sheet" for myself so I could position my cursor exactly every time for every type of tool.

You all could figure this out on your own as well quite easily (hence spoilers)

If you continue on thinking that the in-game smithing is anything but an absolutely precise process, you're gonna have nothing but imperfect tools.

You AT LEAST need to know that punches add two pixels, and light hits deduct three, every other move is just to satisfy the rules and can be experimented with to get the right starting positioning.

As I stated before, that would be great if the smithing was changed a bit so that these kinds of cookie cutter methods are pointless.

I'm not the only one who has broken down all the moves to a numerical value. All the respectable smiths out there who work fast and nail it every time have figured out the visual cues.

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I thought that posting numbers applied to hidden values in the code.

These numbers are necessary if you want to make a perfect tool.

I made a "cheat sheet" for myself so I could position my cursor exactly every time for every type of tool.

You all could figure this out on your own as well quite easily (hence spoilers)

If you continue on thinking that the in-game smithing is anything but an absolutely precise process, you're gonna have nothing but imperfect tools.

You AT LEAST need to know that punches add two pixels, and light hits deduct three, every other move is just to satisfy the rules and can be experimented with to get the right starting positioning.

As I stated before, that would be great if the smithing was changed a bit so that these kinds of cookie cutter methods are pointless.

I'm not the only one who has broken down all the moves to a numerical value. All the respectable smiths out there who work fast and nail it every time have figured out the visual cues.

Yea unlike other areas of Minecraft, or even other games, people around here don't like numbers. Especially the developers; they want the game to be challenging, and part of that challenge is not knowing what to do, and experimenting. I see that you have done just that, so bravo, but people don't want to know the precise mechanics from you - they'd rather do it themselves. I don't give a mouse poop either way: take the numbers or don't. I don't want them, therefore it's easy for me to not look at them and memorize/use them. But people around here who are adamantly against giving out numbers (and you'll find plenty here), aren't going to like it when you do, and they won't listen to your arguments. It's just something you have to come to terms with...

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I can understand, but I've always tried to reduce things like this into a mathematical process so I can work out a strategy for each tool in order to use the least number of hits and get a perfect result every time.

Not going to waste my towns resources on trial and error when I can figure out how to do things ahead of time.

This might also be my way of venting in a passive aggressive way because no one wants to trust me as their town smith :D

I've made 30 tools in a row without making a single imperfect one by using this method and still no trust? :angry:

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I thought that posting numbers applied to hidden values in the code.

These numbers are necessary if you want to make a perfect tool.

I made a "cheat sheet" for myself so I could position my cursor exactly every time for every type of tool.

You all could figure this out on your own as well quite easily (hence spoilers)

If you continue on thinking that the in-game smithing is anything but an absolutely precise process, you're gonna have nothing but imperfect tools.

You AT LEAST need to know that punches add two pixels, and light hits deduct three, every other move is just to satisfy the rules and can be experimented with to get the right starting positioning.

As I stated before, that would be great if the smithing was changed a bit so that these kinds of cookie cutter methods are pointless.

I'm not the only one who has broken down all the moves to a numerical value. All the respectable smiths out there who work fast and nail it every time have figured out the visual cues.

I can understand, but I've always tried to reduce things like this into a mathematical process so I can work out a strategy for each tool in order to use the least number of hits and get a perfect result every time.

Not going to waste my towns resources on trial and error when I can figure out how to do things ahead of time.

yeah, good smiths, myself included, either know the numbers or the combination. and it's fine if we do.

It's great you want perfection for your town and all, just don;t ruin smithing for other people. the least you could have done was add a spoiler tag to the table. you can ignore them, sure,but you made them bright red and green, so your eyes are attracted to them. even if you don't look directly you subconciously remember and recall them later.

EDIT: wow, much longer than I expected

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