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IVCraft

Ceramic working, The Second Technological Tier.

85 posts in this topic

Introduction

So, you start playing terra firma craft, make yourself a fire and survive one night with your wooden house.

Until now everything is ok, but then you get an bismuthinite ore, what would you do? Obviously all you need to do is to compress 4 wooden blocks on a single 1m^3 cube to make a table you need in order to craft a clay mold, but which also can be used to magically craft doors and beds with bare hands out of heavy wood, and work glass bottles out of blocks without even needing to heat up the glass at all.
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The second tier: Ceramics

The idea I had to avoid this complete nonsense is to add a new technological tier, while moving up a bit masonry and wood working. This means, no beds in TFC until someone can sucessfully craft a saw, and before that, master some pottery and work with ceramic to make plates, cups and flower vases.

How to make ceramic stuff:

Firstly, you need to extract some pure clay from the sand/clay mixed block you find under lakes and bodies of water. After getting four bits of clay, you combine them into a clay block, exactly like in vanilla minecraft.

Then you make a stone knife to start working the details of a clay mold. The recipe is shapeless, 1 knife and 1 pure clay block, to open a GUI with a 5x5 grid (Similar to the one that appears when you hit two stones to make tool heads, but with a clayish texture instead). From there, all you need to do is to draw the shape of a clay mold, pan, vase, knife or cup.

Posted Image ============>Posted Image
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Ceramic Stuff

Notice that everything done with clay has no use until it's fired in the fire pit.

Ceramic Molds


Posted Image

A new recipe for the ore containing mold. Differently from the original one, this recipe doesn't need a workbench and the mold can be created with bare hands.



Ceramic Cups


Posted Image

Drinking water with vanilla glass bottles should be replaced with ceramic cups, also filled with by right clicking a water block. Water should also be boiled to kill bacteria and avoid possible diseases (just heat the water cup on the fire pit).



Ceramic Pans


Posted Image

Pans are used to boil lots of water at a time or cook meat, meat cooked without them can be burn even on low temperatures and be less nutritive. When you put the pan inside the fire pit, it will be visible as a 3D pan model above it, which you can right click with a cup to pick up some of it's water. Pans can be filled with water in the same way as cups are.

Also, in order to fry eggs, there may be also a ceramic frying pan. Eggs cannot be placed on normal pans and disappear if put directly on the fire pit. The same can happen with other types of food that needs to be in a container in order to be cooked.



Ceramic knives


Posted Image
Ceramic knives in reality are very hard and rarely need sharpening, so they should have a reasonable durability altough it's not going to do much damage to mobs because it's extremely difficult to make a sharp edge for it, the real ones are usually grinded with a diamond-coated grinding wheel (Hey, wikipedia), thing we don't have in stone age.

Anyways, because of the largest durability, they are the best to be used to prepare meals - as meal tables should now require a knife to function. They should also consume the knife's durability on each use, like an anvil does with a hammer.


____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

The Workbench

Ok, after crafting all that stuff, you have already got your saw, what's the next step? While holding the saw, right click in any wooden block (pine logs, oak planks, etc.), and you make a crafting table, a little bit smaller than an normal wood block, mimicking the way an anvil works. Now you have the good, old 3x3 square, but also with two more squares, one in the bottom left, another in the bottom right. Put a hammer in one of them, and a saw in the other. Now, those tools should be visible in the texture of the workbench.

When you start crafting, wooden-like blocks in the crafting squares will waste durability of the saw, and stone/iron-like blocks will waste durability of the hammer, and any other items are ignored. Now, if put together 3 planks and 3 wool, you can finally craft your bed and take a rest from this tiring day of work.


About Scribing tables:

In order to implement this there will be necessary a slight change to the way scribing tables are done. Because workbenches are not avaliable until you have a saw, to make a scribing table you will need to right click a plank block with paper in hands. As a balancing method, scribing tables also require a Quill to work (Shapeless recipe, feather + knife, the knife is to sharpen the feather tip). There will be an extra slot in the table for a quill right above the paper. Using a scribing table wastes the durability from the quill.

Posted Image
____________________________________________________________________________________________________________

Final Note:

Adding a new tier of technology may also get the game a little bit harder than it already is, but after you find a good deposit of clay, you can craft anything you want in only two steps: Carving the clay, then burning it in a firepit.

It will also force the player to pass nights awake in the first days of gameplay, making things a little bit hard for starters. Altough, this way, it's possible to add much more believability, and, why not, realism to the game. And that's what TFC is about - Adding believability to the game without ruining the experience of creating, working and exploring a completely unique world, the world of Minecraft.

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There is a thread dedicated to adding many more (important) uses to clay. You might want to check it out.

Use the search function, although your thread is a good one.

Anyways,

WELCOME TO THE TFC FORUMS IVCraft!

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And how did you get the saw?

edit: I like the idea of clay being used more (clay GUI would be interesting) and the crafting table using tools.

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Please, be patient. Images coming soon!

So, you start playing terra firma craft, make yourself a fire and survive one night with your wooden house.

Until now everything is ok, but then you get an bismuthinite ore, what would you do? Obviously all you need to do is to compress 4 wooden blocks on a single 1m^3 cube to make a table you need in order to craft a clay mold, but which also can be used to magically craft doors and beds with bare hands out of heavy wood, and work glass bottles out of blocks without even needing to heat up the glass at all.

The idea I had to avoid this complete nonsense is to add a new technological tier, while moving up a bit masonry and wood working. This means, no beds in TFC until someone can sucessfully craft a saw, and before that, master some pottery and work with ceramic to make plates, cups and flower vases.

Here's how it works:

Firstly, you need to extract some clay from the sand/clay mixed block you find under lakes and bodies of water. After getting four bits of pure clay, you combine them into a clay block, exactly like in vanilla minecraft.

Then you make a stone knife to start working the details of a clay mold. The recipe is shapeless, 1 knife and 1 pure clay block, to open a GUI with a 5x5 grid (Similar to the one that appears when you hit two stones to make tool heads, but with a clayish texture instead). From there, all you need to do is to draw the shape of a clay mold, pan, vase, knife or cup.

Everything done with clay has no use until it's fired in the fireplace. Drinking water with vanilla glass bottles should be replaced with ceramic cups, also filled with by right clicking a water block. Water should also be boiled to kill bacteria and avoid possible diseases (just heat the water cup on the fireplace).

Pans are used to boil lots of water at a time or cook meat, meat cooked without them can be burn even on low temperatures and be less nutritive. When you put the pan inside the fireplace, it will be visible as a 3D pan model above it, which you can right click with a cup to pick up it's water. Pans are filled with water the same way as cups.

Ceramic knifes in reality are very hard and rarely need sharpening, so they should have a reasonable durability altough it's not going to do much damage to mobs because it's extremely difficult to make a sharp edge for it, the real ones are usually grinded with a diamond-coated grinding wheel (Hey, wikipedia), thing we don't have in stone age.

Anyways, because of the largest durability, they are the best to be used to prepare meals - which should now work just like an anvil, and requires a knife to function. It also consumes the knife's durability like an anvil does with a hammer.

Ok, after crafting all that stuff, you have already got your saw, what's the next step? While holding the saw, right click in any wooden block (pine logs, oak planks, etc.), and you make a crafting table, a little bit smaller than an normal wood block, mimicking the way an anvil works. Now you have the good, old 3x3 square, but also with two more squares, one in the bottom left, another in the bottom right. Put a hammer in one of them, and a saw in the other. Now, the change should be visible in the texture of the workbench.

When you start crafting, wooden-like blocks in the crafting squares will waste durability of the saw, and stone-like blocks will waste durability of the hammer, and any other items are ignored. Now, if put together 3 planks and 3 wool, you can finally craft your bed and take a rest from this tiring day of work.

Final Note:

Adding a new tier of technology may also get the game a little bit harder than it already is, but after you find a good deposit of clay, you can craft anything you want in only two steps: Carving the clay, then burning it in a firepit. It will also force the player to pass nights awake in the first days of gameplay, making things a little bit hard for starters. Altough, this way, it's possible to add much more believability, and, why not, realism to the game. And that's what TFC is about - Adding believability to the game without ruining the experience of creating, working and exploring a completely unique world, the world of Minecraft.

Wow.... I'm amazed. Had this idea been suggested as of yet, anyone?

P.S. - Please avoid the term 'realism'; it's considered taboo around here unless you wrote down 'why not' or some term along those lines.

Also...

WELCOME TO THE TERRAFIRMACRAFT FORUMS, IVCRAFT!

P.S. - I got ninja'd by Kimbblesrath and Emris_Morath, ;(.

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Awesome NINJA IS AWESOME! But Sda, yes and no. The exact idea was not suggested, but as I said, the idea of many more uses for clay was suggested. What was not suggested however, was IV's wonderful idea of making clay a keystone material in the game. However, I can see one problem with this. People already have immense amounts of trouble finding clay (I am always lucky with clay, weird) and get frustrated with it. Clay is already very important, but if you were to make it utterly and completely a keystone item.....Well, you can see what I mean. I think clay is fine as it is, but newbs to the mod will just have a harder time. But then again, that IS the nature of the mod, so why not?

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Awesome NINJA IS AWESOME! But Sda, yes and no. The exact idea was not suggested, but as I said, the idea of many more uses for clay was suggested. What was not suggested however, was IV's wonderful idea of making clay a keystone material in the game. However, I can see one problem with this. People already have immense amounts of trouble finding clay (I am always lucky with clay, weird) and get frustrated with it. Clay is already very important, but if you were to make it utterly and completely a keystone item.....Well, you can see what I mean. I think clay is fine as it is, but newbs to the mod will just have a harder time. But then again, that IS the nature of the mod, so why not?

You're lucky; I spawn on top of sphalerite or native copper, but I never seem to find any clay on the nearby rivers, which forces me to either search for clay, or cheat for clay if the situation is completely dire.

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Thanks for welcoming me! And ok, I will use the search function from now... just forgot it this time.

And how did you get the saw?

edit: I like the idea of clay being used more (clay GUI would be interesting) and the crafting table using tools.

Using a stone knife and clay, you make mould. Burn it, put ores in it, craft a stone hammer to make a stone anvil and make an ingot. Now, craft a saw plan, put a stick an that's all. Workbenches aren't needed to make a saw if clay working is implemented.

EDIT:

You're lucky; I spawn on top of sphalerite or native copper, but I never seem to find any clay on the nearby rivers, which forces me to either search for clay, or cheat for clay if the situation is completely dire.

In the first world I spawned, I walked for days and didn't find any clay. I raged and stopped playing TFC, but later I created a new world and there was clay like 10 blocks from spawn. I only find them in flat plains, though, with occasional trees and lots of grass (not tall grass), alongside with the river.

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Thanks for welcoming me! And ok, I will use the search function from now... just forgot it this time.

Using a stone knife and clay, you make a mold. Burn it, put ores in it, craft a stone hammer to make a stone anvil and make an ingot. Now, craft a saw plan, put a stick an that's all. Workbenches aren't needed to make a saw if clay working is implemented.

Aren't casts ruled out by Bioxx?

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I also had no problems with finding clay.

And besides, long searching is also a part of the TFC experience... is it not?

.....and make an ingot. Now, craft a saw plan, .....

Thats my point. You need a Scribing Table to make a plan.
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Thats my point. You need a Scribing Table to make a plan.

Uh... That pretty much ruins part of the idea. So you can't craft a saw without a scribing table... Which needs a workbench to be done. I will see what I can do though...

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Uh... That pretty much ruins part of the idea. So you can't craft a saw without a scribing table... Which needs a workbench to be done. I will see what I can do though...

How about this; why not make a tweak involving the forging of a crude saw through experimention, trial and error?

EDIT: And this also applies to every metallic tool.

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EDIT: And this also applies to every metallic tool.

But we already have a good system of making metal tools.

There has to be another way to solve the chicken&egg problem.

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How about this; why not make a tweak involving the forging of a crude saw through experimention, trial and error?

EDIT: And this also applies to every metallic tool.

That solves the problem. But wouldn't be a pain to blindly craft the wrong tools until you've got a saw (if that's what you mean)? Like, from all the bismuth tools there are on TFC, what's the chance of getting a saw after 3 tries?

Altough the forging mechanic could be changed to make it possible to craft tools without a plan - with some disadvantage, like making it harder to forge the right tool in some way.

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But we already have a good system of making metal tools.

There has to be another way to solve the chicken&egg problem.

My idea is to remedy the problem with IVCraft's clay suggestion. You make a crude tool if you don't have a plan in the Anvil's Game-User-Interface.

That solves the problem. But wouldn't be a pain to blindly craft the wrong tools until you've got a saw (if that's what you mean)? Like, from all the bismuth tools there are on TFC, what's the chance of getting a saw after 3 tries?

Altough the forging mechanic could be changed to make it possible to craft tools without a plan - with some disadvantage, like making it harder to forge the right tool in some way.

And yes, it would be irritating. So, probably you need to click on a certain button to start the hammering into a specific, yet crude tool, continuing on and so forth.

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I also had no problems with finding clay.

And besides, long searching is also a part of the TFC experience... is it not?

Thats my point. You need a Scribing Table to make a plan.

You could make things more believable, first get a mould and place the ink there, and then a feather, you have an ink quiver! now you get some paper(3 reeds in shapeless recipe)and right click on the paper in any block that isnt dirt , just like the meal table and then you get yourself the scribing table GUI and you will see a model on the block you placed.like in thaumcraft 3.

Another small suggestion, in the clay shaping GUI you should be able to get back the pieces of clay you took of, not like in the knaping GUI.

Loved this suggestion Welcome to the terrafirmacraft forums!

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.... the forging mechanic could be changed to make it possible to craft tools without a plan ....

Are you trying to kill the Scribing Table? :o

I kind of like the Scribing Table :)

The only way i can see a crude tool being made is by making a negative clay form of a saw, smelting ore into this clay form using a fire pit, and sharpening it on a stone anvil using a hammer while it's still hot.

The durability would have to be very low....which could, maybe, be made higher by warming and water cooling the tool....but still very low..

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Every tool has three rules in order to be done right? Considering the rules never change, as long as you forge the ingot following the rules and the cursor ending on the right spot, the crude version of a tool could be done without a plan, 80% the normal durability maybe. The problem is that there may be some ambiguity on the rules, ex:

Axe: Hit-last, Bend-2nd from last, Shrink-Not last; And

Pickaxe: Hit-last, Bend-Not last, Shrink-3rd from last.

The sequence Shrink-Bend-Hit would result in which tool, An axe or a pick?

So this would need each tool to have a unique rule set to avoid these ambiguities. Those rules could be learned from the net or gameplay, like crafting recipes, and would be used to make tools when you don't have an scribing table avaliable to help you (in desperate situations maybe). So rules would only appear on the side if you had a plan, but if you remember them, you can make still make tools, altough not as perfect as you can do with the plans.

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Are you trying to kill the Scribing Table? :o

I kind of like the Scribing Table :)

The only way i can see a crude tool being made is by making a negative clay form of a saw, smelting ore into this clay form using a fire pit, and sharpening it on a stone using a hammer while it's still hot.

The durability would have to be very low....which could, maybe, be made higher by warming and water cooling the tool....but still very low..

The way I view the production of crude tools is procured by anvils that don't have blueprints in the GUI. They have to be hammered in a specific, sort-of random-ish way to be made into a new item that is a crude metal tool. These tools have half (or 3/4s, depending on the metal type) the durability of a metal tool made with plans, and have half the breaking speed as well.

That clears up the dust for you?

EDIT: And this is my take, IVCraft.

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That clears up the dust for you?

Oh..the dust is clear...i'm just thinking about playability and believability.

Hitting a very hot metal on a stone anvil in some unknown pattern and getting a usable tool out of it...hmm....i guess it could work

We'll have to wait and see what Bioxx thinks about it.

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On clay working:

On crafting bench:

This is a list of threads you could check out, so you improve this one with the ideas you find useful there. Try to read them all, 'cause OP's ideas in those threads aren't always the best in the thread ;)

The Scribing table problem could be solved in a much more simpler way: taking advantage of a vanilla recipe. Make a Book and quill, and place it on a wooden planks block while holding markings in your hotbar; BAM, instant scribing table. For fancyness, it would take the colour of the plank blocks it was made from, instead of the usual unchanging texture.

And for people worried about clay being hard to find (Kimb...), devs could always rise it if they found it too low for the game to function properly.

Welcome, IVCraft! Hope you keep making this kind of suggestions, in the way to become Jed's level :3

(note: Jed's level is the max suggestion level ever reached on this forums, check Jed1314's threads to see what i'm talking about)

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The way I view the production of crude tools is procured by anvils that don't have blueprints in the GUI. They have to be hammered in a specific, sort-of random-ish way to be made into a new item that is a crude metal tool. These tools have half (or 3/4s, depending on the metal type) the durability of a metal tool made with plans, and have half the breaking speed as well.

That clears up the dust for you?

EDIT: And this is my take, IVCraft.

The thing with random tool creation is that it is just too hard to get the tool that you want... We could just use simple rules to determine what the tool is gonna be (I don't know if you read my post about it, #17), that could be memorized like crafting recipes.

Oh..the dust is clear...i'm just thinking about playability and believability.

Hitting a very hot metal on a stone anvil in some unknown pattern and getting a usable tool out of it...hmm....i guess it could work

We'll have to wait and see what Bioxx thinks about it.

If I want to make a sword, I will try to make the approximate shape of a sword on my anvil... But without planning exactly the lenghts and sizes, I can end up with a very poorly done sword. That's why we need plans. And that's why we can still make tools without them.

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The thing with random tool creation is that it is just too hard to get the tool that you want... We could just use simple rules to determine what the tool is gonna be (I don't know if you read my post about it, #17), that could be memorized like crafting recipes.

If I want to make a sword, I will try to make the approximate shape of a sword on my anvil... But without planning exactly the lenghts and sizes, I can end up with a very poorly done sword. That's why we need plans. And that's why we can still make tools without them.

I read your post on #17. What I was trying to achieve is that the rules to create said crude tool should be specific, and sort of randomized, for variety.

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I read your post on #17. What I was trying to achieve is that the rules to create said crude tool should be specific, and sort of randomized, for variety.

Randomized how? Like... Every time you open the anvil? Or every time you create a new world? So each new world you would need to learn the rules to create your tools maybe?
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Ejem... it looks like nobody here readed my post <_____<...

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Ejem... it looks like nobody here readed my post <_____<...

I've read it now. Thanks for those links! I'm already seeing some nice ideas for uses of clay...

Also,

Clay molds for tools could ease a lot forging them, although I think it makes the forge completely obsolete... There may be a way, however, to balance that other than putting low durability on tools created this way.

EDIT: Also, MAN the scribing table idea is amazing... Seem perfectly logical to make a book and quill set for those inscriptions, but then why would we need paper each time we make one?

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