blueprints are way too op

[Menoch 335]

guys, in real life if you do something, then you'll have a pretty good idea at the steps of doing it again.

Unless of course you are under the influence of a pint or eight... then that theory tends to best be left to video tape. Lol

[pwajnkaim 15]

I don't see the problem everyone has with this new feature and how apparently it makes the game 'too easy'. Blueprints weren't added to make the game easy but to save time, what if someone wants a 1x1 tiny block chiseled around their house, do you expect them to spend hours just clicking blocks and doing the same thing over and over again?

It's funny how everyone wanted a copy feature added to the chiseling but now that it is everyone hates it, not only that but blueprints even disappear when you use them which makes no sense yet is there to stop it from being too easy. I am fine with the way everything is right now single player terms, however if you are worried that someone will 'steal' your little couch then one of the best options would be to make blueprinting only work for people who made the block, which would however increase memory usage.

[Menoch 335]

"what if someone wants a 1x1 tiny block chiseled around their house, do you expect them to spend hours just clicking blocks and doing the same thing over and over again?"

--- In creative mode, nay. In survival mode, yep.

I have. And I still do. And in the end, the sense of accomplishment is astounding. Dont care about a sense of accomplishment on that level, play creative mode, where (again imo) this wonderful tool belongs.

"It's funny how everyone wanted a copy feature added to the chiseling but now that it is everyone hates it..."

--- I never wanted it. I would guess there are others who didnt or could care less as well. Therefore not everyone wanted it.

Listen. Im not saying the feature isnt innovative and handy. But blueprints dont work like that, and it doesnt seem to fit in the scope of the very essence of TFC which I thought has always been Survival Game Believability, not Survival Game Time Saver.

I could care less if someone poofed into existance a couch i designed. What i do care about is that they could poof something into existance to begin with. Whether it be out of thin air or from a plain block to a mini statue of Liberty. This is TFC for the love of Pete. Not David Blaine's living room! lmao

[Walmart Germaphobe 15]

It should take a very long time to make something, unless it's with creative. As for the statue shop, say you make a statue, and it took forever, so you decide it must be worth a lot. You sell them for 5 iron ingots each. Someone buys one, then copies it a whole load of times and sells them for 1 iron each. How is that fair? However, without the blueprints, you know how to make them in your head. Someone could copy them, but then they do just as much work as you, so it is fair.

Well, if you want to build a really big smooth stone structure, it takes a lot of work to get all the stone, which, according to you is FORCED TEDIUM. So why don't we add NEI in so everyone can just spawn whatever they need in?

Well, that would ruin the fun. But who get's a kick out of repeating a chisel pattern repeatedly? we're suggesting a lock system, do you not understand?

[dockwithme 76]

what if someone wants a 1x1 tiny block chiseled around their house, do you expect them to spend hours just clicking blocks and doing the same thing over and over again?

It's funny how everyone wanted a copy feature added to the chiseling but now that it is everyone hates it...

And in the end, the sense of accomplishment is astounding. Dont care about a sense of accomplishment on that level, play creative mode, where (again imo) this wonderful tool belongs.

I love the thinking. Yes, this is a great BUILDER tool, but has no place in survival.

Listen. Im not saying the feature isnt innovative and handy. But blueprints dont work like that, and it doesnt seem to fit in the scope of the very essence of TFC which I thought has always been Survival Game Believability, not Survival Game Time Saver.

I could care less if someone poofed into existance a couch i designed. What i do care about is that they could poof something into existance to begin with. Whether it be out of thin air or from a plain block to a mini statue of Liberty. This is TFC for the love of Pete. Not David Blaine's living room! lmao

This is great. I cannot urge this more than what is stated here. The game is about making your own way, not piggy-backing off of other successes. I just want someone to come out and say they love TFC bc they can sit back and leech off of other people's hard work. They can't. And they shouldn't. And they won't.

Well, that would ruin the fun. But who get's a kick out of repeating a chisel pattern repeatedly? we're suggesting a lock system, do you not understand?

I again introduce the fact that TFC is hardcore, not creative. I hate to think that the devs implemented a feature that is amazing as a Creative Mode feature, but horribly balanced as a Survival Mode mechanic.

[stringburka 72]

I don't see how it's horribly balanced as a survival mode mechanic as it doesn't really enhance your survival rate that much. I can see from the believability viewpoint, but not really the game balance one. I mean, what are chiseled blocks good for that plank/stairs/fence block aren't? Sure, they're protected from flame, but that's about it. A minor benefit for a medium amount of work, is not some horrible thing to me.

On the other hand, I think there is a believabiltiy issue in the only way to have a fist-sized stone being to take a square meter of marble and cut away 99.8%, and then only getting a single little rock. I think that there is an issue with believability and I don't think that forcing one to do that manually with the argument "it should be hard!" is a good idea - since it's a tedium that doesn't make sense from an in-game world. It's like making all food require melted tin as an ingredient - sure, it makes the game harder, but that doesn't mean it makes sense.

One option would be to allow blueprints to be used several times, but using a blueprint isn't instant, it takes like .5-1 seconds per removed piece.

Another option is to make chiseling drop microblocks that are 1/512th of a block that can be placed much like planks, perhaps with some additional cost of some sort of adhesive or similar. That'd make it easier to make those small details.

[bsb23 303]

Alright so its obvious that the rare tool compromise is being ignored so how about this, in survival mode we shouldn't have to (you don't really have to) work on something tirelessly and tediously but we also shouldn't be able to skip the work. In other words we should be given tools that allow us to work efficiently but not be lazy if we want something amazing we still should work for all of it.

The question is now what tools would make chiseling more efficient?

[Menoch 335]

Alright so its obvious that the rare tool compromise is being ignored so how about this, in survival mode we shouldn't have to (you don't really have to) work on something tirelessly and tediously but we also shouldn't be able to skip the work. In other words we should be given tools that allow us to work efficiently but not be lazy if we want something amazing we still should work for all of it.

The question is now what tools would make chiseling more efficient?

How about an automated laser!? You can program it to carve what you want, and then construction robots can place said blocks where you want them... all quicker and more efficiently than you ever could!

I tease! Or do I.....

[halfmaster1 77]

First of all, your guy's argument about getting a really small block is stupid; there is still slab mode. It wasn't any different before the update with detailed chiselling.

This is where skill comes in, you have to know what you are going to do, if you just wing it, you might end up pointlessly click hundreds of extra times.

Also, if you think that it is good if it speeds up your work, then why don't we add the ability to spawn in smooth stone, that would speed things up a lot, but it wouldn't help you survive. Also, why don't we allow people to toggle what kind of rock they are holding, it wouldn't help them survive, but it would help them build.

[bsb23 303]

I get your point here, I get it these tools would not be necessary for survival, however to use this mechanic people are spending way too much time on it to the point of tedium just to get one block done. Sure it would be great just to say you need to put in the work to benefit but think of much better work everyone could accomplish with a more efficent mechanic.

[Biodigious 211]

I could have sworn there was supposed to be pseudo-specialization of jobs. Blueprints get rid of that for sculptors.

[fliffy101 12]

I could have sworn there was supposed to be pseudo-specialization of jobs. Blueprints get rid of that for sculptors.

unless, of course, you could only make a blueprint of what you made yourself by hand

[halfmaster1 77]

It still gets rid of specialization. You only have to get through the block once without a mis-click. After that, you can always be perfect.

[Menoch 335]

I get your point here, I get it these tools would not be necessary for survival, however to use this mechanic people are spending way too much time on it to the point of tedium just to get one block done. Sure it would be great just to say you need to put in the work to benefit but think of much better work everyone could accomplish with a more efficent mechanic.

And THAT ladies and germs is why people use creative mode.

The tedium of mining, smelting, cooking, foraging, gathering, etc.. etc... etc... is done away with. You select, and boom. There is the object/block you need. Which is why the Blueprint is the perfectly poignant CREATIVE Mode tool.

Whether 1/1000th of a block or not, a creative tool, used to make crafting quicker because "people dont want to spend the time on tedium", is a fish in the desert in survival mode, regardless of whether it makes surviving easier or not.

My opinion... but maddeningly enough, i dont stand alone in this.

Even those who are all for it agree the believability is null.

A blueprint is a recipe. Plain and simple. It tells you how to craft something, and what the outcome will be if you follow those directions/measurements/etc... it doesnt craft them for you. A Star Trek Replicator does.

[pwajnkaim 15]

Ok I might have a solution to everyone's problems. What if using blue prints was changed so that when used on a block, every single micro block that is supposed to be broken becomes highlighted on the block, the belivability would make sense since if you were to draw out a design it doesn't automatically get created but you know what to break away. And it would make repeating things slightly easier knowing exactly what block to break however if you clicked too much you would mess up. Blueprints would also have unlimited uses because looking at something doesn't make it vanish. In creative people could have access to the current blueprints to automatically recreate designs. And for the multiplayer problem of people 'stealing', your creation, I think a server option in the configs dictating whenever people who didn't make a sculpture can blueprint it, could be added. If people still aren't pleased then perhaps it could take around 5sec, after clicking a block, for a blueprint to be created (drawing time).

[dockwithme 76]

Ok I might have a solution to everyone's problems. What if using blue prints was changed so that when used on a block, every single micro block that is supposed to be broken becomes highlighted on the block, the belivability would make sense since if you were to draw out a design it doesn't automatically get created but you know what to break away. And it would make repeating things slightly easier knowing exactly what block to break however if you clicked too much you would mess up. Blueprints would also have unlimited uses because looking at something doesn't make it vanish. In creative people could have access to the current blueprints to automatically recreate designs. And for the multiplayer problem of people 'stealing', your creation, I think a server option in the configs dictating whenever people who didn't make a sculpture, can blueprint, it could be added. If people still aren't pleased then perhaps it could take around 5sec, after clicking a block, for a blueprint to be created (drawing time).

I like all of this.

[pwajnkaim 15]

I like all of this.

thank you

[Buczkowski 36]

Ok I might have a solution to everyone's problems. What if using blue prints was changed so that when used on a block, every single micro block that is supposed to be broken becomes highlighted on the block, the belivability would make sense since if you were to draw out a design it doesn't automatically get created but you know what to break away. And it would make repeating things slightly easier knowing exactly what block to break however if you clicked too much you would mess up. Blueprints would also have unlimited uses because looking at something doesn't make it vanish. In creative people could have access to the current blueprints to automatically recreate designs. And for the multiplayer problem of people 'stealing', your creation, I think a server option in the configs dictating whenever people who didn't make a sculpture can blueprint it, could be added. If people still aren't pleased then perhaps it could take around 5sec, after clicking a block, for a blueprint to be created (drawing time).

Thread over.

This is probably the best way to handle this, and I wish I had thought of it.

[Menoch 335]

…words and stuff....

Very very well thought out, dude. This makes total and perfect sense. It makes recreation easier, but doesn't do it for you! Kudos.

[fliffy101 12]

Long awesome post.

Shit!! thats cool! i think that this would be the best way to handle this. Im gonna edit the post to incorperate what you just said.

[Kimbblesrath 503]

And that was how pwajnkaim ended possibly and hopefully) the long and meaningful argument over the current blueprint system.

[killster550 401]

me gusta pwajnkaim's way of thinking and solution, yet another +1 it is

[barkingnoise 19]

Ok I might have a solution to everyone's problems. What if using blue prints was changed so that when used on a block, every single micro block that is supposed to be broken becomes highlighted on the block, the belivability would make sense since if you were to draw out a design it doesn't automatically get created but you know what to break away. And it would make repeating things slightly easier knowing exactly what block to break however if you clicked too much you would mess up. Blueprints would also have unlimited uses because looking at something doesn't make it vanish. In creative people could have access to the current blueprints to automatically recreate designs. And for the multiplayer problem of people 'stealing', your creation, I think a server option in the configs dictating whenever people who didn't make a sculpture can blueprint it, could be added. If people still aren't pleased then perhaps it could take around 5sec, after clicking a block, for a blueprint to be created (drawing time).

I think this is rather good. I'm more to the drawing time-solution rather than server-config solution, but there could perhaps be both, depending on how the server wants it.

For instance, it's important to remember that the solution must be as utilitarian as possible, applicable to as many different styles of playing as possible. Get both, but make one (or both) optional/configurable.

Also perhaps kick up the drawing time to more than 5 seconds. Perhaps 9 or 10, like mining an obsidian block with a pickaxe. But that's debatable and really nothing important.

So +1 to your post, liking it.

[stringburka 72]

And THAT ladies and germs is why people use creative mode.

The tedium of mining, smelting, cooking, foraging, gathering, etc.. etc... etc... is done away with. You select, and boom. There is the object/block you need. Which is why the Blueprint is the perfectly poignant CREATIVE Mode tool.

Whether 1/1000th of a block or not, a creative tool, used to make crafting quicker because "people dont want to spend the time on tedium", is a fish in the desert in survival mode, regardless of whether it makes surviving easier or not.

That could be said for shovels and all food but zombie flesh too, that they belong in creative mode and we should dig with our hands because it's harder and eat the putrid flesh because it's more of a challenge and that food that doesn't poison you is just for lazy people and that we should only have one heart HP because surviving an arrow is for creative mode.

It's always a weighting of difficulty vs. accessability. The feeling of satisfaction when succeeding at something difficult can be lessened if the task gets simplified, but if it's too difficult one might end up tireing and dropping the whole thing and never getting to the fun part. Like if we had to dig all dirt by hand.

And different people prefer different amounts of tedium/difficulty. People playing TFC sure prefer more than those playing vanilla, but it varies among us too.

Acting like one's personal preference is some kind of perfect level of difficulty can come across as a bit rude. While I'm bound to agree that blueprints should be hard to do or not be there at all (preferably instead having other methods of speeding up chiseling), it's better not to act like we're some kind of Messengers of The One Truth.

[dockwithme 76]

That could be said for shovels and all food but zombie flesh too, that they belong in creative mode and we should dig with our hands because it's harder and eat the putrid flesh because it's more of a challenge and that food that doesn't poison you is just for lazy people and that we should only have one heart HP because surviving an arrow is for creative mode.

It's always a weighting of difficulty vs. accessability. The feeling of satisfaction when succeeding at something difficult can be lessened if the task gets simplified, but if it's too difficult one might end up tireing and dropping the whole thing and never getting to the fun part. Like if we had to dig all dirt by hand.

And different people prefer different amounts of tedium/difficulty. People playing TFC sure prefer more than those playing vanilla, but it varies among us too.

Acting like one's personal preference is some kind of perfect level of difficulty can come across as a bit rude. While I'm bound to agree that blueprints should be hard to do or not be there at all (preferably instead having other methods of speeding up chiseling), it's better not to act like we're some kind of Messengers of The One Truth.

Those are two way different things. Instantly being able to create a block after only having to create it once, or after copying it to a blueprint from someone else is NOT believable. It is along the terms of being able to spawn yourself blocks in Creative Mode.

Saying we should have one heart, or to dig dirt with your hands, or to have to eat rotten flesh bc '[normal food] is just for lazy people' is not a normal thing to do. They are constraints you can place on yourself, yes, but have no believability since you CAN make shovels and you CAN eat other foods... and that is accepted by everyone because it MAKES SENSE. Creating a chiselled stone autoMAGICALLY with one click is not.

If you believe chiselling blocks is tedious without being able to magically create them, then DON'T do it. You don't HAVE to. It is not essential to survival.

Now I feel mean...