Crossbows

[madflavius 46]

Short range? Really? That thing could fire at far greater distances than any of bows. You can indeed make it to fire inaccurately, but to deliberately make it short ranged? Nohnohnohnoh.

I neglected to modify my initial outline of points to fit my later statements, mea culpa. You're right, and what I said later agreed with you: crossbows did have decent range, but had a fairly poor accurate range of 40-50 yards. Many arguments could be made about whether or not a trained crossbowman could accurately put a bolt on target at the same or greater range than a longbowman, and since both factions are well-entrenched in their views, I don't think that particular argument will be resolved.

Perhaps the best solution, then, is to make a bow more accurate and a crossbow less accurate. From my limited understanding of the code that would be easier as well; the bolts would have the same range and flight-path as an arrow from a bow, but would have a greater deviation in where it would land. This makes sense with the mechanics of a crossbow too: the bolt is resting in a grooved slat, and when the string flies forward to propel it there are innumerable ways the bolt could drift off course due to variations in the crossbow's surface, whereas with a (highly-trained!) longbowman, his/her hand releases the arrow, which flies with minimal resistance and contact with other parts of the bow as it begins its flight.

Cross bows would obviously have metal limbs, and I'm thinking metal bolts too, to make it expensive but effective.

I wholeheartedly agree on that point.

[manafusion 10]

Short range? Really? That thing could fire at far greater distances than any of bows. You can indeed make it to fire inaccurately, but to deliberately make it short ranged? Nohnohnohnoh.

Only reason why Javs are considered short range to me is because one needs to have muscle strength to throw it, apart from angle toss. If you want a better range, you need to toss it at an angle. Javelin tosses in Olympics are the same way. It doesn't work like TFC where you just "shoot" it straight, then it bounce around once or twice. As far as Javelins go, it's still considered close range to me. Not close as in 10 blocks close, but somewhere around 35 blocks. Crossbows should be 50 and arrows should be 70. This taking into account best angle and drop curve but not taking into account arm strength (or else what, you want everyone to be bulky? Steve isn't bulky, he's square and rectangles).

EDIT: I read wrong.

Cross bows would obviously have metal limbs, and I'm thinking metal bolts too, to make it expensive but effective.

Would be good idea. That way people can opt for expensive and powerful vs cheap and rapid fire-able.

Perhaps the best solution, then, is to make a bow more accurate and a crossbow less accurate.

No. Both crossbows and bows are of different flight paths but are both considered accurate. In fact, crossbow bolts do not fly further than any arrows fired by bows. In the other side, crossbows hit dam near accurate compared to bows since one needs to take into account drop curve, air resistance and travel time to ensure it hits. Both have their own flaws and weaknesses but it should be highlighted first before you decide to just add random weaknesses in. Makes it more... believable, mind you.

EDIT: A good link:

http://www.ehow.com/info_8259926_difference-between-bows-crossbows.html

This is based on modern bows and crossbows so the design between modern and ancient may differ in capability.

[Zandorum 59]

I like the idea but I dont like the Duel wield idea.

[manafusion 10]

I like the idea but I dont like the Duel wield idea.

No. Crossbows are not dual wield. Only people who want a crossbow pistol would make such a thing and it should not even be accepted into TFC.

[Gorni 73]

Guys also look into this, jed worked the idea about crossbows out pretty well already.

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/1072-total-ranged-overhaul/

[Vlad 73]

Problem here is bows are pretty shit in TFC right now. javelins do... uh.... 6.6666* more damage iirc?

yeah,

If Bioxx fixes bows (and maybe adds different wood types) crossbows may make their way on the table.

I mean, if melee weapons get better as you advance, shouldn't ranged ones?

But javelins don't stack, that makes bows very practical.

[transcengopher 349]

But javelins don't stack, that makes bows very practical.

Unless something is alone, quite far from you, and you have many arrows (around 10 to 30, if you're unlucky, for a single unarmoured zombie) they are pretty useless.

[Vlad 73]

Unless something is alone, quite far from you, and you have many arrows (around 10 to 30, if you're unlucky, for a single unarmoured zombie) they are pretty useless.

If it's not alone you are doomed anyway (unless you retreat), in that case you should equip a sword and.. SWING SWING SWING, YOUR SWORD, SWORD

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

If it's not alone you are doomed anyway (unless you retreat), in that case you should equip a sword and.. SWING SWING SWING, YOUR SWORD, SWORD

if you have javelins in the hot bar

and you throw one

you're selected item will become another javelin. It self-reloads.

[transcengopher 349]

if you have javelins in the hot bar

and you throw one

you're selected item will become another javelin. It self-reloads.

Only if another javelin is to the left, iirc.

If it's not alone you are doomed anyway (unless you retreat), in that case you should equip a sword and.. SWING SWING SWING, YOUR SWORD, SWORD

Only if it is an enderman.

Bastard ended my hardcore run, nevah forget.

Stone axes and knives work good enough, they just break fast. If you like tedium and it's a zombie, you can try fists, you can push it off a cliff repeatedly as well.

But for now I prefer to roam with three javelins in my hotbar.

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

But for now I prefer to roam with three javelins in my hotbar.

So you didn't before? I always roam with at least 4 javelins, sticks and rocks on me, so those bastard creepers can't catch me unprepared...

[transcengopher 349]

So you didn't before? I always roam with at least 4 javelins, sticks and rocks on me, so those bastard creepers can't catch me unprepared...

Before it was one or two and an axe. As well as stack of stones and sticks and my "lighting crafting skills" in case of a mob of mobs.

[Srgnoodles 1,030]

But javelins don't stack, that makes bows very practical.

although, with the new health increases, it tkaes anywhere from 5-7 arrows just to kill one, unarmored mob

[Treyflix 277]

Quit reminding me that Bioxx made bows and fists useless!

I still don't get it, why ruin archery? That was my profession! It made PVP so much more fun!

WHY BIOXX, WHY?!?!?

[Just_Another_Guy_:) 1,066]

Quit reminding me that Bioxx made bows and fists useless!

I still don't get it, why ruin archery? That was my profession! It made PVP so much more fun!

WHY BIOXX, WHY?!?!?

*In the distance, people would hear Bioxx evily laughing from his damned castle, terrified to know their favourite feature would be next if they didn't hide it well enough.

That was, until people realized those features always returned, a thousand times better. And that's why people allowed Bioxx to be the king of his land.*

/unnecesary lore

[killster550 401]

guys, besides all the derailing, ive seen someone suggest crossbows be short range (now i know i know jack shit about modding but still, i know my history) crossbows were among the most advanced ranged weapons out there, strong enough to penetrate a full suit of plate armor where a bow couldnt, at longer ranges, and even more accurate and easy to fire( a peasant with a crossbow could kill a knight with years of training with 1 shot)

that said, the DISadvantage was that crossbows were a tad bigger thus uneasy to carry alongside a full traveling package (could be implemented through taking more than 1 inventory slot maybepossiblyprobablynot?) and they were incredibly long to reload, the average crossbow (apart from the chinese Chu-Ko-Nu (ill get there soon) took about 5 times as long to reload as a regular handbow, and the English longbow allowed for a bigger range as well, although still not as long as a crossbow, making it an excellent support weapon for attacks, but bad for an defensive situation because the crossbow outranged and damaged it.

the Chinese Chu-Ko-Nu (probably spelling it wrong again) was one of the first crossbows out there (yes they did it first) and what made it exceptional was the fact it had a magazine for roughly 10? smaller crossbow bolts which were manually reloaded via a wooden lock system, you fire, open the lock via lever, pull lever back to relock it, and fire again, allowing for a faster rate of fire (much faster than a handbow in fact) but the bolts were a lot smaller than the crossbows, making them lozing damage

perhaps we could see some of these variants or appliances (the lock in itself could work wonders for gates and/or door locks, just a wood piece that blocks the door, controlled via lever) in TFC, maybe not.

noobling me, out

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

If crossbows are implemented, each one would be resource expensive and the ammo would be metal, so it too would be expensive. It would take much longer (2-2.5 times as long) to load as the bow does but do significantly more damage.

again, this isn't a confirmed feature, I'm just structuring the ideas with the scope and aim of the mod.

[killster550 401]

agreed dunk, maybe you could make a very light chu-ko-nu version of wood, which has a increased magazine or firing rate of say, 5 bolts at a time, after which you'd get an ever longer reload time, and it would do less damage than the regular one. (also, remember they used to fire stones in a mounded crossbow, this could make for low-cost ammo, forcing you to shoot like 4 stones per shot, OR arrows (this would need to be visible though)

[Buczkowski 36]

The Greeks and Romans eventualy developed repeating crossbows of their own. The fired much faster than a standard crossbow of the era and had a 'technically' infinite ammo capacity as more bolts could always be thrown in the ammo hopper. It's primary disadvatage was immobility, as it couldn't be re-aimed once set. Wasn't really worth it in the long run.

But yes, crossbows shouldn't be shorter range than regular bows.

[killster550 401]

The Greeks and Romans eventualy developed repeating crossbows of their own. The fired much faster than a standard crossbow of the era and had a 'technically' infinite ammo capacity as more bolts could always be thrown in the ammo hopper. It's primary disadvatage was immobility, as it couldn't be re-aimed once set. Wasn't really worth it in the long run.

But yes, crossbows shouldn't be shorter range than regular bows.

these were known as an arbalest if i am correct ;D

[LordOfWolves 514]

If crossbows are implemented, each one would be resource expensive and the ammo would be metal, so it too would be expensive.

But to make it less expensive you can make skeletons rarely drop ammo for crossbows like the arrows.

[killster550 401]

But to make it less expensive you can make skeletons rarely drop ammo for crossbows like the arrows.

why not a new skeleton or new mob entirely wielding javelins and crossbows? just reskin the skeletons, perhaps change the texture a bit, and make them wield a crossbow or javelin, which would have an immensively longer loading time (javelin would travel a lot less far) than the regular auto-fire skeletons

besides guys, bows use arrows, crossbows use BOLTS

[GreenLeaf 198]

Would it be plausible to have the crossbow work kind of like the one in Balkon's weaponmod where as you're done reloading you can put it away and do something else and when the time comes you can fire it instantly.

I assume this wouldn't work in reality. keeping a crossbow loaded for too long is sure to be damaging to both the bow and the string.

But eh, i'd like to have a crossbow loaded and ready to fire for those startling moments!

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

nope, the entire point is to be expensive. Making it less expensive destroys balance.

[killster550 401]

nope, the entire point is to be expensive. Making it less expensive destroys balance.

the post i made about retextured mobs wouldnt affect the balance, just make the more dangerous, also, having a crossbow primed indefinetly is impossible you could have one loaded for, say, 5 minutes before the string would wear, but do you keep ANY other weapon chambered and ready to fire in minecraft? nope, all you gotta do with a xbow is have an even longer range (these weapon stuffs could fit in a pvp server extremely well too, allowing for actual castle wars and stuff like that )