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Unavailableartist

Colonial Technology

76 posts in this topic

So, I've been reading the pinned suggestions and there are a lot of good ones. I like the arrow recovery system. Where you could craft several kinds of arrows from different arrows... and the increase in power would be less and less significant as you go up the metal tiers. But what the metals affect is recovery. I also like the idea of having some sort of primitive industrial sort of technology like wind and water wheels. So I'm posting this as a play on that technology.

I'll start with industrial aspects first...

The first is the windmill and watermills... which mill grain for consumption. I like how terrafirma forces you to make the bloomery... so my suggestion would be the some the watermills the only think is... it will be significantly bigger than the bloomery. like a least the size of a 3x3x3 house as in a volume of 27 cubes3

With that I thought of another industrial component, a saw mill.

Posted ImagePosted Image

This what I was thinking of. What would you do, you build the log piles like so and place them inside the contraption which requires support beams, stone bricks and a saw blade in place of the kapok planks... then attach a water mill... you have to make flowing water though. And slowly the saw cuts thought the wood loops and releases a whole mess of wooden planks... or support beams... depending on what you set it to.

Another piece of is gun powder weapons, and blasting powder.

So here's what it adds, Nitrogen sources, Pyrite, a use to saltpeter, and sulfur ore close to lava.

Pyrite would be an iron ore that can be used as an alternative to flint.

Saltpeter and Sulfur to make your own gunpowder for your gun.

Nitrogen sources adds the ability to make real TNT, that is used for specific blasting areas. It requires String, paper and TNT powder. Which requires gunpowder and nitrogen source. And the nitrogen can be used for farming as well. And TNT cubes are crafted by combining TNT sticks together for storage.... don't let a creeper near it... it would be serious griefing :D. 1 stick will blast several layers of dirt, or a few layers of stone, about what a vanilla TNT would do. It drops ore if you hit any... however you cant get raw stone from using TNT, all the stone it removes converts to cobble... and any dirt or wood you blow up is destroyed.

Now, back to the primitive fire arms... I was think of adding flintlock muskets. But with added rules... not like adding that silly mod of balkon. I.E. Muskets can't be craft out of any metal. Muskets require Specific Alloys and higher Tier metals. Like bronze, wrought iron, and steel. And the bullets require soft metals like the already present bismuth, zinc, tin, silver, gold and lead.

To make a musket you need a chisel... a 2x welded ingot of hard metal, a plank of wood, a flint and steel (or pyrite and steel), and a ram rod (made by just using an ingot of another hard metal). All the pieces require separate research papers and needs to be assembled on a crafting table. (the higher the metal tier the more durable the gun)

Bullets need their own research too. 1 ingot makes like 8-10 rounds... all metals have the same attack. Regardless of metal used the attack is devastating.

This idea came to me while reading the recoverable metal arrows for bows. I though since bows can recover arrows this should be the drawback to a musket. You cant recover bullets :D unlike the bronze/iron/steel arrows. So.... I thought I'd go end with pros and cons.

+ Musket will one hit kill most mobs.

+ Musket has a flat trajectory, therefore a more "accurate" range.

- The musket is expensive.

- The musket is loud. It will make all animals run as if attacked... and hostile mobs charge as if damaged.

- The musket has a much slower reload time compared to bows (or crossbows if any are made).

- Requires gun powder and shot in order to work.

- Musket has a shorter range than arrows or bolts.

- (if the recoverable arrows are used) you cant recover shot.

So what do you think???

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So, I've been reading the pinned suggestions and there are a lot of good ones. I like the arrow recovery system. Where you could craft several kinds of arrows from different arrows... and the increase in power would be less and less significant as you go up the metal tiers. But what the metals affect is recovery. I also like the idea of having some sort of primitive industrial sort of technology like wind and water wheels. So I'm posting this as a play on that technology.

I believe wind and water wheels are already suggested.

I'll start with industrial aspects first...

The first is the windmill and watermills... which mill grain for consumption. I like how terrafirma forces you to make the bloomery... so my suggestion would be the some the watermills the only think is... it will be significantly bigger than the bloomery. like a least the size of a 3x3x3 house as in a volume of 27 cubes3

In hindsight, that's a great idea for windmills and watermills! Though, you could implement more on how to actually construct them.

With that I thought of another industrial component, a saw mill.

Posted ImagePosted Image

This what I was thinking of. What would you do, you build the log piles like so and place them inside the contraption which requires support beams, stone bricks and a saw blade in place of the kapok planks... then attach a water mill... you have to make flowing water though. And slowly the saw cuts thought the wood loops and releases a whole mess of wooden planks... or support beams... depending on what you set it to.

Might be a little overpowered, in my perspective.

Another piece of is gun powder weapons, and blasting powder.

Bioxx unfortunately overruled the use of firearms, but blasting powder? I think they can manage that.

So here's what it adds, Nitrogen sources, Pyrite, a use to saltpeter, and sulfur ore close to lava.

Pyrite would be an iron ore that can be used as an alternative to flint.

Saltpeter and Sulfur to make your own gunpowder for your gun.

Nitrogen sources adds the ability to make real TNT, that is used for specific blasting areas. It requires String, paper and TNT powder. Which requires gunpowder and nitrogen source. And the nitrogen can be used for farming as well. And TNT cubes are crafted by combining TNT sticks together for storage.... don't let a creeper near it... it would be serious griefing :D. 1 stick will blast several layers of dirt, or a few layers of stone, about what a vanilla TNT would do. It drops ore if you hit any... however you cant get raw stone from using TNT, all the stone it removes converts to cobble... and any dirt or wood you blow up is destroyed.

Umm... okay... not sure about that...

Now, back to the primitive fire arms... I was think of adding flintlock muskets. But with added rules... not like adding that silly mod of balkon. I.E. Muskets can't be craft out of any metal. Muskets require Specific Alloys and higher Tier metals. Like bronze, wrought iron, and steel. And the bullets require soft metals like the already present bismuth, zinc, tin, silver, gold and lead.

Interesting. Minie ball much?

To make a musket you need a chisel... a 2x welded ingot of hard metal, a plank of wood, a flint and steel (or pyrite and steel), and a ram rod (made by just using an ingot of another hard metal). All the pieces require separate research papers and needs to be assembled on a crafting table. (the higher the metal tier the more durable the gun)

Besides a crafting table, research ways on how they construct flintlock muskets.

Bullets need their own research too. 1 ingot makes like 8-10 rounds... all metals have the same attack. Regardless of metal used the attack is devastating.

Blueprints should be used to design bullets. There must be a special way to make bullets without a hammer, as it's very difficult to do with convientional methods.

This idea came to me while reading the recoverable metal arrows for bows. I though since bows can recover arrows this should be the drawback to a musket. You cant recover bullets :D unlike the bronze/iron/steel arrows. So.... I thought I'd go end with pros and cons.

+ Musket will one hit kill most mobs.

+ Musket has a flat trajectory, therefore a more "accurate" range.

- The musket is expensive.

- The musket is loud. It will make all animals run as if attacked... and hostile mobs charge as if damaged.

- The musket has a much slower reload time compared to bows (or crossbows if any are made).

- Requires gun powder and shot in order to work.

- Musket has a shorter range than arrows or bolts.

- (if the recoverable arrows are used) you cant recover shot.

I agree with all of them.

So what do you think???

Requires elaboration, especially the construction of wind and water mills. Other than that, it's a good suggestion.

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yeah i like the idea of the sawmill, but yeah like Sda said, firearms are not going to happen according to boixx...buuuut, Bioxx isn't running TFC anymore, so we'll have to see what Dunk thinks about it

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Wait, so has Bioxx retired or something?

He's working on TFCII which i have almost no knowledge of, but he has left Mr. Dunkelo over here in charge of TFC untill TFCII is complete
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I find the prospect both exciting and terrifying.

Exciting because we're having a new and improved TFC in the form of "II" coming soon eventually?

Terrifying because the old TFC is possibly going to be discarded?

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Exciting because we're having a new and improved TFC in the form of "II" coming soon?

Terrifying because the old TFC is possibly going to be discarded?

welll....soon wouldn't be a very accurate word to use there, more like "eventually" or "when Half Life 3 comes out"
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perhaps you could craft bullets with a mold put into the bloomery, a special mold obviosly. the amount of metal used should be very little i think. 1 ingot = 10-20 bullets. but i like the idea of having a use for tier 0 metals after progressing.

i'm a little confused with the saw mill suggestion, would we be removing the saw from the game? because we can saw up tons of wood in seconds without a sawmill.

as for the water/wind mill i think it would be cool. making it almost necessary to settle next to water gives a real feel of trying to survive off the land. would be nice if you could set a quern next to one.. or better yet make it more like the bloomery where you have to supply it with the proper materials for it to run properly, or perhaps .... set your grain in windmill powered quern and come back a day later to find it has processed 5-10 grain into flour. nothing instant.

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...I'll imagine TFCII wont be exactly complete either. Much like this one has started out. So it'll be like... oh ok... it'll be a promising start with TFCII, but while they further add stuff and iron out kinks... I'm going to keep playing the original. And eventually you'll start noticing TFCII.

It's a shame Bioxx disapproves of firearms, because they were crucial in history of mankind. And they some of the first firearms were created in the 1400s and 1500s. They were crafted without complex machinery... they used blacksmiths and anvils still. And were riddled with disadvantages compared to a bow or crossbow. A skilled archer would do better than musket... and they were much more reliable.What made muskets in so popular for infantry was the noise they made and the fact that it required less skill than archery... it was easier to train a soldier to fire a musket than shoot an arrow.

---I do agree that advanced firearms have no place in terrafirmacraft, like the M16 or something. But adding primitive firearms onto the game would add some charm, and possibly a good use for lead. However... if they added advanced firearms... I would expected some further complicated set-ups for machinery... that require lots of space and resources... possibly more so than the mill or bloomery. I also would want some shooting mobs (maybe a new dimension), but that would shift it to so a FPS game... while I like those, I'm not sure all of you would like that....

There are so many disadvantages... that you could add to a musket... like "wont shoot in rain" (very realistic).

ANYWAYS... I'll try to elaborate what I mean... I'll update pictures with adding what I think a grain mill should look like. Later....maybe try to make a water wheel.

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perhaps you could craft bullets with a mold put into the bloomery, a special mold obviosly. the amount of metal used should be very little i think. 1 ingot = 10-20 bullets. but i like the idea of having a use for tier 0 metals after progressing.

Yea good Idea...

i'm a little confused with the saw mill suggestion, would we be removing the saw from the game? because we can saw up tons of wood in seconds without a sawmill.

What the yield of a saw with a log? I really new to this game I was looking a the wiki and saw 38 per log... but I didn't think it was true. Anyways I was thinking the mechanics would be similar to a sluice... you would leave their machine behind, and check on it once in a while. Plus you would be using logpiles which can hold large quantities of wood. All you would have to do... is set the storage level of the sawmill to like a double chest. This idea came to me, because I noticed a lack of automation in the game... not saying that things should be like Industrial craft, but I'd like to see some automation once you progress further in the game. I like the stone age start, but there should be some industrialization and automation once you start getting advanced tools and metals. Otherwise the world becomes flat...

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Before Dunk comes in a stomps all this, I'm going to put in my 0.02$.

Water/wind mills: You present a good concept. That is, a ancient yet incredibly effective source of mechanical power. You say you would use it to automatically mill grain. These would actually fit within TFC's time frame and if iron was required to make the gears they would be a pretty balanced game play wise. However, if these were to be implemented a whole myriad of building techniques would have to be implemented because Bioxx does not add features (at least, ones that are not temporary fixes) that use the crafting bench. Besides. All that work to simply automate grain production? The amount of raw cereal crops that would have to be grown to actually justify that kind of infrestucture is ridiculous. In my humble opinion, I do not think this fits in TFC. I will wait to see what Dunk says though.

Saw mills: again, I love the concept, but as far as implementation, in game balance, and purpose this idea is even more lack luster. First off such a contraption would need powering from something, or constant manning. Constantly manning it would defeat the purpose of creating the darn thing in the first place. After all, a sawmills purpose is to automate wood production. And powering it? The only thing that you could power it within TFC's time frame is, wait for it, a windmill or watermill! However, the amount of moving parts and complex contrustion involed in such a contraption would be immense, and more suited to something like industrialcraft or better than wolves. So, no.

TNT: I'm sorry, but I'm just gonna make this one short and not very sweet. You don't know anything about explosives. Both TNT and Dynamite require the use of complex chemistry to create. Not fitting for TFC. HOWEVER, TFC happens to have all the ingredients for black powder, as you noted. The use of black powder, in some sort of water tight container such as a small barrel with a fuse attached would be a perfect TFC explosive and has been suggested before.

Now on to the dousie. Muskets... Here is where Bioxx's opinion and my own go in different directions. Bioxx has clearly stated NO GUNS!

However I think with the right improvements to Archery, like the metal arrow heads that are recoverable, a damage buff, and more realistically accurate longbows with a proper crafting system instead of just sticks and string on a work bench, Muskets could be a balanced late game addition to the game. That is, With the right amount of inaccuracy and a very slow reloading system

(my personal idea is to have to stop, place your musket in your inventory crafting square, place a new lead ball, a patch, and a "piece" of powder [the smallest unit of powder, similar to a single piece of flux] to turn your unloaded musket into a loaded musket, then once you fire it you must reload it again)

I think Muskets have their merits and deserve to be explored and discussed. before Dunk just stomps on them.

TL;DR: water/wind mills: No, to complicated with little reward. Saw mills: No, too overpowered and complicated to implement. TNT sticks: No, powder kegs instead. Muskets: possibility, needs more refinement and discussion.

P.S; Dunk has given us a teaser of a late game power system to replace redstone... Steam power. A way to use all the now useless metals in a late game technology.

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P.S; Dunk has given us a teaser of a late game power system to replace redstone... Steam power. A way to use all the now useless metals in a late game technology.

Oooh, got a link?

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Oooh, got a link?

Man I'm in a good mood today. I'll tell you something but I need to make something clear:

THIS IS NOT A CONFIRMED FEATURE, MERELY AN IDEA I AM APPROACHING BIOXX ABOUT IN THE FUTURE. I WOULD TAKE THIS TASK ON MYSELF.

I would like to talk to Bioxx about an alternative to redstone, but that would fit with the theme of TFC and be late game. It would have to be able to transfer energy into mechanical power over distances and be late game and here is what I have come up with: steam power. We are already planning on implementing lead pipes to transport liquids, and this idea builds on that with adding brass boilers, valves and gauges to implement a full steam power mechanism. Boilers create steam which travel through lead pipes. Valves act as toggle-able switches to stop the flow of steam power when the system is active. Guages allow you to check the steam pressure inside a pipe and certain combinations will allow pipes which are toggled off until the steam is at full pressure, allowing for repeating mechanisms. Steam pressure would allow you to activate pistons for moving blocks (and possibly pumping bellows) or activate steam turbines to turn axels which could turn a quern, hoist rope or maybe even activate a turn crank on a lift-rail system to haul minecarts of ore up inclines. What I want to accomplish with this is threefold: replace redstone with a more logical alternative; implement a late-game feature that allows you to build more and expand after you get the late-game metals and create more uses for currently useless metals such as lead and brass.

In this thread: http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/2863-speculation-about-the-terrafirmacraft-construction-update/page__st__20
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.... that's very close to the age of TNT well dynomite... XD. Viable Steam engines weren't invented till the mid-late 1800 century... dynomyte... mid 1900 century...

lol well ok that's a bit of a stretch :D.

I'm glad that TFC is ridding of "red powder".... which is silly. I think would be cool would be if they could do ages like TFC I early ancient ages. TFC II late colonial/renaisance TFC III Industrial... TFC IV space age... but and the mobs get tougher as you progress through the ages (through portals) that's just a thought. I'm not saying its imperative, to the game... terrafirmacraft is already good. :D

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Stuff

Firearm stuff

How would the firearms be reloaded?

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That's simple. Balkon's mod would use right click to load the gun and then right click again to fire. Or there could be a key binding for it.... that's what you mean right?

Or are you implying I missed some piece of the gun that would be needed to load it?

Actually I was thinking that the firing rate would be at least 15-20 second per round... where a bow could pull off near instant reload rates... the problem is the arch with the bow... and the power of course.

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Water/wind mills: You present a good concept. That is, a ancient yet incredibly effective source of mechanical power. You say you would use it to automatically mill grain. These would actually fit within TFC's time frame and if iron was required to make the gears they would be a pretty balanced game play wise. However, if these were to be implemented a whole myriad of building techniques would have to be implemented because Bioxx does not add features (at least, ones that are not temporary fixes) that use the crafting bench. Besides. All that work to simply automate grain production? The amount of raw cereal crops that would have to be grown to actually justify that kind of infrestucture is ridiculous. In my humble opinion, I do not think this fits in TFC. I will wait to see what Dunk says though.

-- Treyflix

Ok so I took the time to actually read Treyflix response... with the and I compeletly disagree. And, who said every part had to be moving. Skeletons shoot arrows without even facing you, or making arrow drawing motions. And when you look a industrialcraft... they compress it into a tiny cube you place near water that generates power. Further more you forget you have to actually chop trees for your saw mill... which don't exactly grow likity-split with bone (and shouldn't). Also you forget you actually still have to cut the trees and place them on the sawmill.

If you look at vanilla minecraft all you do is mine and build... but what you build is just A.) shelter or B.) A farm

Now I do appreciate Terrafirma realism.... but who said realism... means restriction. And what do you do with that kill 1 mill zombies... and mine 1mil stone with red alloy steel...uuuuu...

First of all your talking about steam power which was viably built in the 1600s or 1700s... an completely bypassing more traditional windmill and watermills. They had very specific purposes and predated anything terrafirma is planning to do with steam... it just doesn't make sense. Another think... Steam was traditionally used to power boats and watermills... as in the steam engine would pumps water onto the water wheel and viola you've go a moving wheel. Just keep in mind that all these bloomeries and such just really add to the aesthetics... you balance or imbalance them however you want. And what I'm suggesting requires plenty of supplies. And so what if you built a large farm and harvested several pieces of rie and barley.... why not a mill... it gives you something to build other than houses and castles... that just sit there.

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Actually I was thinking that the firing rate would be at least 15-20 second per round...

How would you implement that ~15 sec reload time without it just being *Hold right mouse button for 15 seconds*?

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There could be a key binding for it.... Like you press "j" for example and it goes through loading. And to stop as in "OMG these people are chasing me!" Press j again and he'll stop loading... That could work.

I've played X3 before, they have long "holding" binds for repairing spaceships. Because you have "fire" a repair laser and often enough it takes a 1 min or 2 even of straight shooting the laser to repair a ship... It's not the only way to repair a ship... But it's the cheapest way.

Another thing you could do is... And would avoid another key bind all together. First right click with empty musket... Gives a 3x1 crafting square...with the musket on one end. And all you a have to do is shift left the little loaded musket icon musket (it vanishes like stone chips does with knaping). And, the right click again.

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Unavailableartist, in order to not double-post, click on the button right next to 'quote'; the button's title is 'multiquote'. Click on the button on different posts to reply to all of them.

That's the wonders of technology.

Shouldn't you pour the gunpowder in first, the cartridge second, then ram it down with your ramrod (unless I am speaking of a rifled musket)?

The way I believe it should be done is similar with that musket GUI. When right-clicking an unloaded musket, a GUI of that firearm appears. Pick up the gunpowder in your inventory and left-click on the end of the barrel. It should disappear. Pick up the cartridge like you did with the gunpowder and input it. Click on the ramrod located under the barrel(?) of the musket, then place it on the end of the barrel. One click will push the ramrod into the barrel, and should do the trick. Place the ramrod back under the barrel (?), arm the musket and voila! You're ready to fire.

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Well yea... I was thinking the ramrod had to be a part of the rifle... like that we can make it just a loose piece you had to in order to shoot. You open the GUI and like the campire you have to place the items on top... and they sink to the bottom. So you have place the gunpowder first, miniball, and the ramrod on top. Then exit the GUI... and the right click again to shoot.

Shooting will drop the ram rod followed by a shot (Like the split second pause there is when shooting a musket).

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Yay! We've finally reached the point in firearms reloading that we were at seven months ago!

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What do you mean... there was another thread about firearms like this one... show me.

Well I plan of making some examples of windmill parts and such... but still... show me the thread... I want to see.

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i like how TFC has no automation, but that doesnt mean we cant have some sort of power system. some things require more strength than we can muster, even as strong as humans can get... thats why we need machines to do the heavy lifting. why do we have a quern? because using a mortar and pestle would take a human forever just to grind enough wheat for a loaf of bread.

wind/water mills are real life automation of that process, if we wanted to translate that to TFC then iron would have to be used in order to not make our current systems pointless.

i kind of like scrapping the saw in favor of a larger version. lets eliminate the super fast making support beams in your inventory trick and make it a process that actually makes sense. attach a sawmill building to a wind/watermill, and feed it wood, not automatically mind you, this one has to be manned. perhaps the saw unit would require you to hold right mouse in order to use, like the bellows on a bloomery.

maybe in the future we will get beasts of burden to till the ground instead of the all powerful insta hoe!

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