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Unavailableartist

Colonial Technology

76 posts in this topic

Unavailableartist... I want to eats you... You look delish!

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Unavailableartist... I want to eats you... You look delish!

HEY, that's my raspberry, only i get to eat him
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While the saw mill might be during the Rennaisance period... which begins in the 1700s. Firmarms, windmills, or waterwheels are around that age. I want to think the first "muskets" were invented at around 1460s or something like that. Hand cannons I think were invented about a century or two before.

Although... flintlock muskets I think are new... if the 1500 century is the limit... matchlock muskets would have to be used. They were made a little differently.

SDA209... could you help me out here...? Sorry I didn't get your joke by the way.

Trying to be a comedian conventially is where I fail at, so it's alright. The 16th Century isn't the limit, as the veterans thought that the 17th Century is the limit (though, Dunkleosteus is not going to add starships, D;). I don't know much about the beginnings of early muskets... (sorry, I only know much more about Revolutionary War and Civil War weaponry, I believe). What I do know about early muskets is that they're very inaccurate.

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You guys need to remember that gunpowder has been around China for quite some time before the European Renascence, I think they discovered it at around 800? Anyways, something that I think should be implemented is the ability to make gunpowder because guess what, it uses SALTPETER! The most useless thing ever, would finally have an use. Idk what the gunpowder would be used for though, but I don;t think it should be guns, or muskets or whatever.

:P

IMHO any type of gun looks really awkward in this game, I just don't think it fits.

Watch this:

:)

The recipe for gunpowder in real life is saltpeter, charcoal and sulphur.

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I agree with the gun powder recipe. A quern could also be required to grind all the ingredient to powder like IRL.

However I must remind you.... How awkward everything else looks. Shooting skeletons... The use no drawing motions. Zombies wielding swords they don really use... I.e. swinging them.

You also have to remember this idea of mine is only viable if a few others are accepted. Like craft able "gunpowder", and waterwheels or windmills "preferably both"

Also guns weren't meant to be a kill all best weapon. Like someone else stated a "spread" of sorts could be added. Making an inaccurate or unreliable after so many blocks... Unlike a bow that could arch "snipe" in a shot at a much farther range. Maybe somewhere between 7-15 blocks. Where a bow could be tweaked to go nearly triple and cause damage... Just not as potent as the musket (and a bow can recover metal arrows).

Other colonial age mobs would be nice of course.... Musketeering bandits would be good for for a challenge.

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I agree with the gun powder recipe. A quern could also be required to grind all the ingredient to powder like IRL.

However I must remind you.... How awkward everything else looks. Shooting skeletons... The use no drawing motions. Zombies wielding swords they don really use... I.e. swinging them.

You also have to remember this idea of mine is only viable if a few others are accepted. Like craft able "gunpowder", and waterwheels or windmills "preferably both"

Also guns weren't meant to be a kill all best weapon. Like someone else stated a "spread" of sorts could be added. Making an inaccurate or unreliable after so many blocks... Unlike a bow that could arch "snipe" in a shot at a much farther range. Maybe somewhere between 7-15 blocks. Where a bow could be tweaked to go nearly triple and cause damage... Just not as potent as the musket (and a bow can recover metal arrows).

Other colonial age mobs would be nice of course.... Musketeering bandits would be good for for a challenge.

You know, I support this idea...

If Bioxx/Dunk have intended the surface to be all wild animals, with monsters only in the depths.. why not also human mobs? Human npc's that aren't aggressive, they just wanna live at their farm or ranch or w/e, and then also some that are, running about killing with their swords or pistols.. Would bring some needed life to the game.

The environment in TFC is bar-none as far as worldgen, I admit that hands down. But animal life needs improving (which I know is in the works!) but I also think that some Minecraftian Humanoids should pop up also

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You know, I support this idea...

If Bioxx/Dunk have intended the surface to be all wild animals, with monsters only in the depths.. why not also human mobs? Human npc's that aren't aggressive, they just wanna live at their farm or ranch or w/e, and then also some that are, running about killing with their swords or pistols.. Would bring some needed life to the game.

The environment in TFC is bar-none as far as worldgen, I admit that hands down. But animal life needs improving (which I know is in the works!) but I also think that some Minecraftian Humanoids should pop up also

yeah, NPC's and any other kind of human mobs are not going to happen...ever
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Why? When I think of NPC... I think of characters that you can chat with in game. Ore do certain things within the game... Besides fighting you or standing there like livestock... Like building--- and I know most NPC sort of things, might takeaway from terrafirmacraft's overall focus.So, I understand the reluctance there. (I would like to see an NPC mod for terrafirmacraft though....)

But no human mobs....? I mean wouldn't it just be as simple as adding another mob? For example when I say musketeering bandits. These mobs aren't really anymore NPCish than a sheep you get wool from or the skeleton you just fought.- Just a thought...

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Why? When I think of NPC... I think of characters that you can chat with in game. Ore do certain things within the game... Besides fighting you or standing there like livestock... Like building--- and I know most NPC sort of things, might takeaway from terrafirmacraft's overall focus.So, I understand the reluctance there. (I would like to see an NPC mod for terrafirmacraft though....)

But no human mobs....? I mean wouldn't it just be as simple as adding another mob? For example when I say musketeering bandits. These mobs aren't really anymore NPCish than a sheep you get wool from or the skeleton you just fought.- Just a thought...

Because Bioxx has deliberately stated no NPCs, because he hates them

While I don't hate them like he does, I have to say - playing on a server with other people offers way more interpersonal play and realistic interaction than any NPC can provide - they build their own unique structures, don't require a rare material and a GUI to trade, can assist you in tasks, and provide the best hunting you could ever ask in combat interactions

And if you're in SSP, and desire complex social behavior... well why the fuck are you in SSP then

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When considering techology limits, remember that what is technically possible given the materials we are given in TFC doesn't necessarily represent what is possible for a single individual or small group with those materials.

The industrial progress of the Western world was the product of millions, not of a couple of dudes with stone picks stranded in the wilderness. I'm all for higher technology, but only with the intermediate infrastructure included. I.E., building a steam engine is going to require a lot more than some ingots, an anvil, and a overabundance of enthusiasm.

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~long quote about lacking construction methods~

Would you like me to develop the constructions?

I'm really interested in Multiblocks recently.

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ehh, idk i remember hearing from either a giant floating B or a prehistoric fish-shark that our timeframe was ending around that time, although it might have been a silver dragon with cool shades that said that....

but totally, i'd like to see the timeframe expanded as you move on to maybe even having clockwork machines and steam powered stuff

but the again, making higher teir things being in a different "age" might make things awkward on servers where new people would start in the stone age while some people are living with clockwork golems doing everything for them

I don't think it was the aforementioned dragon. Might have been the fish though.
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I honestly don't see the point of arguing timelines of firearms in terms of that factor alone being the deciding factor of if it should be added to the game, or not. However as a blacksmith and apprentice gunsmith by trade I will offer my insights to this topic regarding the matter.

Let's start by ignoring historical timelines and focus purely on the progression of firearms. [As the timeline can be widely debated and argued about whom in which country developed what first.]

Arguably the first, what might be classified as a firearm, was the pole arm weapon which basically consisted of a rough cast bronze or pig iron small diameter bore cannon with a pole attached on the back for aiming and recoil. These were generally agreed upon to be in existence since the very early 1400's somewhere in China.

Posted Image

In terms of the most simple black powder projectile weapon, here you go. As for making something like this in tfc you would need a few items added to the game, mainly, sand casting, and wax or other casting material. I have been eye-twitching as to why sand casting is not already in tfc, as there is a pretty definite 'bronze era' you progress through, and the simple fact that you can not work bronze with a hammer since it, for starters air hardens, and second, hammer hardens, meaning the more you work it with a hammer, the more brittle it becomes. Bronze swords were cast, not forged, however that is a topic for another thread I'm authoring about the issues with the current blacksmithing mechanics.

So, let's say you wish to have something more practical firearm's wise, aka something you could go hunting with, for the deer, that never spawn. Well that's going to take a stronger metal since you need to reduce the barrel sidewall significantly to make something shoulder mounted, let alone pistol sized. Now I'm not going to make some argument that you could if you wished make a musket out of pig iron, or wrought iron, because you could, if you kept the charge low enough not to blow out the barrel, however the jump from pig iron to steel is near instant in tfc, so why not just start making rifle barrels with steel and save the internet flame-war. However that's just it, making the barrel isn't as simple as slapping some ingots on an anvil and hammering it out, it's a barrel, hollow on the inside, and sometimes rifled. Okay, so we need more tools again.

This is starting to tie in with the industrialization which the OP wanted in this thread, the need for windmills and waterwheels, for in order to turn an octagonal hammered out length of steel [using a power hammer perhaps? that alone in tfc2 makes me happy... again not this thread.] into something which can fire a projectile. The answer to that is you need, what is essentially a machine lathe with a very long and hard metal drill bit. High Carbon Steel is already in the game, and if you even know basic metallurgy, high carbon steel is usually referred to as 'tool steel', okay, now we're getting somewhere. Tool steel by itself isn't the best for weapons, because whilst it is much harder than 'steel' it is brittle due to the structure, it could, however be made into a bore drilling bit and slapped onto a bore lathe to drill out a steel barrel for your wonderful flintlock [note I didn't say pyrite lock, reason being, pyrite was only used on firearms with a firing mechanism called a 'wheel lock' which technically predates flintlocks, however it is harder to produce due to more complicated cams and spring wheels over a simple single leaf spring and dual shear trigger lock].

Hook this wonderful bore lathe up to your waterwheel through a belt system/drive-shaft/whatever power transfer mechanic and blam, drilling time. And it should take time, this was a slow process, and would consume all/most of the bore drill bit's durability in the process. The rest is pretty straight forward in terms of crafting, a flint and steel, some wood for the stock, maybe an ingot or two more metal for parts like the trigger and spring assembly, a stick and a ram-head [which is a tiny little hunk of shaped metal on the end of a stick for the ramrod] might add in more part blueprints for these to hammer out, whatever feels right in the eyes of the dev.

Making a firearm back in the era was not a fast nor easy task, even today making one by hand even with the aid of modern machinery still takes a fair portion of a week to do, that should be reflected on the crafting of one in tfc.

Now, the other issue, ammo, well that can be solved by adding another crafting table/molding table. Along the same idea as the alloy table, you would take liquid, well whatever metal you wished really, and it would cast that into the shape of a 'bullet'/'ball'/'miniball' to which you would combine with paper, string, and gunpowder to create a 'musket charge', which is your all in one ammo for your musket. Sure you can use lead, or why not try bronze ammo? Maybe it's discovered that creepers really don't like it when you slam bronze into their hissing green skulls, who knows? Varying damage based on metal type? Not saying werewolves but silver bullets would be interesting.

For multi-player servers the main reason for going through all this work for obtaining firearms is the fact that full steel suits of armor became pointless once you could blow a hole right through with a musket, adding to the tech tree, and adding to the ages, out of the knights in armor wielding swords, and into the next colonial era. However there is a balance issue here, the man with the gun should not be god. Okay, reload times, it's as simple as that. Reloading a muzzle loading musket, even with the pre-measured charge and ball already there, where all you need to is rip the end of the cartage and dump all contents down, ram, cock, prime, fire, still takes about 30-45 seconds, much longer if you're running for your life from a hoard of angry sword wielding farmers, or zombies.

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I honestly don't see the point of arguing timelines of firearms in terms of that factor alone being the deciding factor of if it should be added to the game, or not. However as a blacksmith and apprentice gunsmith by trade I will offer my insights to this topic regarding the matter.

Let's start by ignoring historical timelines and focus purely on the progression of firearms. [As the timeline can be widely debated and argued about whom in which country developed what first.]

Arguably the first, what might be classified as a firearm, was the pole arm weapon which basically consisted of a rough cast bronze or pig iron small diameter bore cannon with a pole attached on the back for aiming and recoil. These were generally agreed upon to be in existence since the very early 1400's somewhere in China.

Posted Image

In terms of the most simple black powder projectile weapon, here you go. As for making something like this in tfc you would need a few items added to the game, mainly, sand casting, and wax or other casting material. I have been eye-twitching as to why sand casting is not already in tfc, as there is a pretty definite 'bronze era' you progress through, and the simple fact that you can not work bronze with a hammer since it, for starters air hardens, and second, hammer hardens, meaning the more you work it with a hammer, the more brittle it becomes. Bronze swords were cast, not forged, however that is a topic for another thread I'm authoring about the issues with the current blacksmithing mechanics.

So, let's say you wish to have something more practical firearm's wise, aka something you could go hunting with, for the deer, that never spawn. Well that's going to take a stronger metal since you need to reduce the barrel sidewall significantly to make something shoulder mounted, let alone pistol sized. Now I'm not going to make some argument that you could if you wished make a musket out of pig iron, or wrought iron, because you could, if you kept the charge low enough not to blow out the barrel, however the jump from pig iron to steel is near instant in tfc, so why not just start making rifle barrels with steel and save the internet flame-war. However that's just it, making the barrel isn't as simple as slapping some ingots on an anvil and hammering it out, it's a barrel, hollow on the inside, and sometimes rifled. Okay, so we need more tools again.

This is starting to tie in with the industrialization which the OP wanted in this thread, the need for windmills and waterwheels, for in order to turn an octagonal hammered out length of steel [using a power hammer perhaps? that alone in tfc2 makes me happy... again not this thread.] into something which can fire a projectile. The answer to that is you need, what is essentially a machine lathe with a very long and hard metal drill bit. High Carbon Steel is already in the game, and if you even know basic metallurgy, high carbon steel is usually referred to as 'tool steel', okay, now we're getting somewhere. Tool steel by itself isn't the best for weapons, because whilst it is much harder than 'steel' it is brittle due to the structure, it could, however be made into a bore drilling bit and slapped onto a bore lathe to drill out a steel barrel for your wonderful flintlock [note I didn't say pyrite lock, reason being, pyrite was only used on firearms with a firing mechanism called a 'wheel lock' which technically predates flintlocks, however it is harder to produce due to more complicated cams and spring wheels over a simple single leaf spring and dual shear trigger lock].

Hook this wonderful bore lathe up to your waterwheel through a belt system/drive-shaft/whatever power transfer mechanic and blam, drilling time. And it should take time, this was a slow process, and would consume all/most of the bore drill bit's durability in the process. The rest is pretty straight forward in terms of crafting, a flint and steel, some wood for the stock, maybe an ingot or two more metal for parts like the trigger and spring assembly, a stick and a ram-head [which is a tiny little hunk of shaped metal on the end of a stick for the ramrod] might add in more part blueprints for these to hammer out, whatever feels right in the eyes of the dev.

Making a firearm back in the era was not a fast nor easy task, even today making one by hand even with the aid of modern machinery still takes a fair portion of a week to do, that should be reflected on the crafting of one in tfc.

Now, the other issue, ammo, well that can be solved by adding another crafting table/molding table. Along the same idea as the alloy table, you would take liquid, well whatever metal you wished really, and it would cast that into the shape of a 'bullet'/'ball'/'miniball' to which you would combine with paper, string, and gunpowder to create a 'musket charge', which is your all in one ammo for your musket. Sure you can use lead, or why not try bronze ammo? Maybe it's discovered that creepers really don't like it when you slam bronze into their hissing green skulls, who knows? Varying damage based on metal type? Not saying werewolves but silver bullets would be interesting.

For multi-player servers the main reason for going through all this work for obtaining firearms is the fact that full steel suits of armor became pointless once you could blow a hole right through with a musket, adding to the tech tree, and adding to the ages, out of the knights in armor wielding swords, and into the next colonial era. However there is a balance issue here, the man with the gun should not be god. Okay, reload times, it's as simple as that. Reloading a muzzle loading musket, even with the pre-measured charge and ball already there, where all you need to is rip the end of the cartage and dump all contents down, ram, cock, prime, fire, still takes about 30-45 seconds, much longer if you're running for your life from a hoard of angry sword wielding farmers, or zombies.

It's been stated many times before on the forum (although I guess I can't expect everyone to get a masters in TFC Forum History >_>) that guns will never be added to TFC, end of discussion. Thank you for your insights though :(
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Apologies, new here, still plowing through it all myself, I just saw this and it was in my area of study and jumped on it.

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Apologies, new here, still plowing through it all myself, I just saw this and it was in my area of study and jumped on it.

Hey don't worry about it, that's what makes this place so great. We have real professionals who KNOW what they're talking about discussing their ideas and thoughts. Regardless of whether your information has an effect on the mod or not, I find the forum to be a great place to learn things from people who know what they're talking about. Your insights are appreciated :)
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Hey don't worry about it, that's what makes this place so great. We have real professionals who KNOW what they're talking about discussing their ideas and thoughts. Regardless of whether your information has an effect on the mod or not, I find the forum to be a great place to learn things from people who know what they're talking about. Your insights are appreciated :)/>

Some of us might(read: after studying CS for another 3 or so years) create an addon for basic machining.

I've argued in the past that minecraft isn't a game; it's a modding platform. Hopefully TFC can become that eventually.

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Some of us might(read: after studying CS for another 3 or so years) create an addon for basic machining.

I've argued in the past that minecraft isn't a game; it's a modding platform. Hopefully TFC can become that eventually.

We have a standard response to this idea: TFC mods are ok as long as no TFC files are edited or changed.
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We have a standard response to this idea: TFC mods are ok as long as no TFC files are edited or changed.

What about replacing TFC files with other files (that is, If i wanted grass to spontaneously catch fire, I would right a grass block class that spontaneous catches fire and replace the old grass block, and yes, i know, blocks aren't classes)

Or do I have to wait for a hook into the terrain gen?

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What about replacing TFC files with other files (that is, If i wanted grass to spontaneously catch fire, I would right a grass block class that spontaneous catches fire and replace the old grass block, and yes, i know, blocks aren't classes)

Or do I have to wait for a hook into the terrain gen?

No editing or overwriting TFC classes
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Guns: really should be apart of the mod i mean not like the modern guns we have today, muskets are one but i don't understand why bioxx said no guns? What does he say about them he didnt even explore what they have to offer. I think muksets should be in the game along with making them very hard to craft

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Guns: really should be apart of the mod i mean not like the modern guns we have today, muskets are one but i don't understand why bioxx said no guns? What does he say about them he didnt even explore what they have to offer. I think muksets should be in the game along with making them very hard to craft

what you dont understand, is that this is Dunk's mod, not yours, sure he can take suggestions from the community, but ultimately if Dunk says no, it's not going to happen. Ever.
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unless we bring some amazingly good reason which would sway them, but in this case there is none, guns are pointless beyond overpowering players, also, a march necro? cmon dude at least add something worthwhile to read

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Well we have bows , we don't need guns what we really need is flaming ball canons , i mean what is a seige whitout a cannon squad ? xD

IDK really , i would like to see the stuff we are aiming too , but minecraft doesn't alow it the servers are too small everyone is a griefer and no one can co exist and work together unless you know them IRL ..

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not every time krski i played a long time on a server, and there wasn't griefers

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