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Leosallespoli

The game I'm Making.

79 posts in this topic

Here's a question for ya, Leo. Will your game be PC only? or will it be Mac compatible? :P

PC, Mac and Linux

Unity speeds it up a lot. I am currently working on a game in which I'm making my own entire engine from scratch. It will use simple graphics but making your own graphics engine is difficult when it comes to optimising. Especially that I have literally barely ever done anything 3d.

Today I've contacted a gamedev group from my university, one of many, I've spent like 5 hours talking to them, they are developing their own 2D game engine for quite some time now( something around 4-5 years), I could try to develop a 3D game engine, but... why would I? Really... To make an engine that is both well done and that can make any game, because if I use unity I can learn how to make ANY game with it and not be hard coded on my specific game, is just a surreal expectation since I'll probably graduate before it even have the core functionality, so no I'm not making an engine for my game. That doesn't mean it is simpler or easier, it means that I prefer to work on my game then it's engine, fore instance some physics assets, like joints, I'll probably, at some point, have to adapt and make my own leaving aside the unity physics. Plus optimization is not only tied to rendering if you read some of my posts you'll notice that I do work a LOT with optimization.

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PC, Mac and Linux

Today I've contacted a gamedev group from my university, one of many, I've spent like 5 hours talking to them, they are developing their own 2D game engine for quite some time now( something around 4-5 years), I could try to develop a 3D game engine, but... why would I? Really... To make an engine that is both well done and that can make any game, not be hard coded on my specific game, is just a sureal expectation since I'll probably graduate before it even have the core functionality, so no I'm not making an engine for my game. That doesn't mean it is simpler or easier, it means that I prefer to work on my game then it's engine, fore instance some physics assets, like joints, I'll probably, at some point, have to adapt and make my own leaving aside the unity physics. Plus optimization is not only tied to rendering if you read some of my posts you'll notice that I do work a LOT with optimization.

I was not saying that what you were doing was easy, I was saying it was easier. The reason I make my own engine is so that I can optimise it to what I need, In addition to this, I learn a lot from it. The difference between you and me is that you are a game makey type of person, Im an idiotic madman type of person. I love graphics, this is why I like to experiment with doing my own stuff so I can get a better understanding of how it all works. Who knows, anti-aliasing and shadow-mapping can always do with an improvement in performance and quality, by experimenting I might come up with a neat trick and make the TAAA (Tom anti-aliasing algorithm) and then get lots of money so I can spend it all on graphics cards.
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I was not saying that what you were doing was easy, I was saying it was easier. The reason I make my own engine is so that I can optimise it to what I need, In addition to this, I learn a lot from it. The difference between you and me is that you are a game makey type of person, Im an idiotic madman type of person. I love graphics, this is why I like to experiment with doing my own stuff so I can get a better understanding of how it all works. Who knows, anti-aliasing and shadow-mapping can always do with an improvement in performance and quality, by experimenting I might come up with a neat trick and make the TAAA (Tom anti-aliasing algorithm) and then get lots of money so I can spend it all on graphics cards.

I don't understand why you can't do that in unity... Really you can... first because AAA in unity is done by a fullscreen shader, pro-version only but you can still develop it for a non commercial game, and you can write your own shaders, shadow-mapping too but that is far more complex, plus you can do tessellation, procedural texturing you name it...

And as I've said "That doesn't mean it is simpler or easier, it means that I prefer to work on my game then it's engine"

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I don't understand why you can't do that in unity... Really you can... first because AAA in unity is done by a fullscreen shader, pro-version only but you can still develop it for a non commercial game, and you can write your own shaders, shadow-mapping too but that is far more complex, plus you can do tessellation, procedural texturing you name it...

And as I've said "That doesn't mean it is simpler or easier, it means that I prefer to work on my game then it's engine"

Yeah but how does using the features of the engine teach me how to make an engine? It doesn't. Do I want shader AA? No I only care about Multi Sample AA. (and some of the new cool optimized fake aa technologies that work much better than fxaa). Also you can stop repeating yourself. I make it difficult for myself because I like a challenge. This does not mean that it would be more difficult if some boring person was doing it the boring way. It means that I am making it hard for myself by not following convention and thinking of my own solutions.

Also you forget, I can make the engine but the game wont make itself, therefore I have additional workload, therefore you can say it is more difficult to finish the project because there is more that can go wrong.

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Yeah but how does using the features of the engine teach me how to make an engine? It doesn't. Do I want shader AA? No I only care about Multi Sample AA. (and some of the new cool optimized fake aa technologies that work much better than fxaa). Also you can stop repeating yourself. I make it difficult for myself because I like a challenge.

The thing you've missed from what I've said, maybe I didn't made myself clear, is that you code those shaders, those AA shaders are yours, you still can use the standard which are good, but if you want say... a noir look on your game you'll have to make a shader for that and you can.

http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Components/SL-Reference.html

Pretty much like you would for openGL or any other.

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The thing you've missed from what I've said, maybe I didn't made myself clear, is that you code those shaders, those AA shaders are yours, you still can use the standard which are good, but if you want say... a noir look on your game you'll have to make a shader for that and you can.

http://docs.unity3d.com/Documentation/Components/SL-Reference.html

Pretty much like you would for openGL or any other.

I understand that I can do shaders in practically any decent engine out there but I don't want to use someone else's engine. Also I'm almost 100% sure that you cannot classify full scene multi sampling anti aliasing as a shader.

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I understand that I can do shaders in practically any decent engine out there but I don't want to use someone else's engine. Also I'm almost 100% sure that you cannot classify full scene multi sampling anti aliasing as a shader.

... Ok.... Do you prefer post-image effect?

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/97023-FXAA-Fast-Approximate-Anti-Aliasing This is an FXAA done by users

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... Ok.... Do you prefer post-image effect?

http://forum.unity3d.com/threads/97023-FXAA-Fast-Approximate-Anti-Aliasing This is an FXAA done by users

Why on earth are you continually trying to persuade me to use unity? I am never going to use the darn thing because it is too simple for my uses. I am not you, it is not difficult to understand this simple concept. I am also completely uninterested in FXAA.
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Why on earth are you continually trying to persuade me to use unity? I am never going to use the darn thing because it is too simple for my uses. I am not you, it is not difficult to understand this simple concept. I am also completely uninterested in FXAA.

I couldn't care less if you'll use unity or not, but saying that unity is too simple or things like that sounds diminishing and ignorantly put, so maaaaaybe you should learn a little more about game engines and how they don't make it easier but cut the development process to the point you actually are making a game, it is about time not about making it simpler.

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I couldn't care less if you'll use unity or not, but saying that unity is too simple or things like that sounds diminishing and ignorantly put, so maaaaaybe you should learn a little more about game engines and how they don't make it easier but cut the development process to the point you actually are making a game, it is about time not about making it simpler.

Have you ever made a fully fledged game engine? No? Have I used one? Yes. Do I have more experience of both things? Yes.

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/em stands back as someone's head grows to immense proportions.......

"It's gonna blow Jim! It's gonna blooow!!!!!!

Confuscious say: Man who claims to know all has much to learn.

ALSO!!!!!

Confuscious say: Man who stand on toilet bowl is high on pot!

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Have you ever made a fully fledged game engine? No? Have I used one? Yes. Do I have more experience of both things? Yes.

Posted Image

Good for you! I want to make this game not an engine.

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alrighty, leo, I've been holding back. Im dedicating all the time tonight to finishing V2 of the script. Then im going to run it past an online writing group(okay, i might not run it past them, writing groups tend to be... eh... not my style?) and past my brother(who is a brilliant editor... God, if only I was like him in highschool.)

the script in question is practically a rewrite. Im doing a bit more detail, and I am thinking I should do pre-organization(scene/actor disc. at start, labels, labels, labels.)

here is what is on my screen now. its not much, so keep that in mind. also keep in mind its unedited(has ALL of the writing I have in that particular document) aside from any spelling errors.

http://pastebin.com/T4x9tpU5

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Good for you! I want to make this game not an engine.

Yeah, I don't care that you want to make a game not an engine, that has no place in this argument, you stated that it is just as easy to make a game engine as it is to make a game using a ready engine... This is incorrect, In addition how would you know if you had only done one of those 2 things and not both.

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Yeah, I don't care that you want to make a game not an engine, that has no place in this argument, you stated that it is just as easy to make a game engine as it is to make a game using a ready engine... This is incorrect, In addition how would you know if you had only done one of those 2 things and not both.

I never said that, au contraire, I've said that it takes a long time to make an engine and I'm not making it because of that, you keep insisting on which is easier, is not about difficulty it is about pleasure and time, now I don't have the time to develop an engine, since as I've said I know it takes a lot of time to do it right, and my pleasure is making games, so what do I do?.You can figure that out for yourself, I'm sure of that, and I don't like to repeat myself and you're insisting me to do that over and over again so I'm not going to continue to talk some sense into you.

Ecc, I like the new version! You should try the short-stories.

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I never said that, au contraire, I've said that it takes a long time to make an engine and I'm not making it because of that, you keep insisting on which is easier, is not about difficulty it is about pleasure and time, now I don't have the time to develop an engine, since as I've said I know it takes a lot of time to do it right, and my pleasure is making games, so what do I do?.You can figure that out for yourself, I'm sure of that, and I don't like to repeat myself and you're insisting me to do that over and over again so I'm not going to continue to talk some sense into you.

Ecc, I like the new version! You should try the short-stories.

Ok, firstly you are arguing about something you have no experience in and making statements on what you think is right.

Secondly, saying its not about difficulty and about time is exactly like saying its not difficult, by removing the variable of difficulty from the argument you are distinctly disagreeing with its significance therefore saying that the difficulty is the same.

Thirdly, I never disagreed with your time argument, time is not the factor, you can make a text based interface and you can make a graphical interface and the graphical might take more time but the difficulty is the same. When making a game engine you must take into consideration every aspect of what you might use the engine for, this is much more difficult than just using the engine. (at least when working alone or with comparable workforce) If I am doing a tile engine I need to ensure to take every aspect of what might be drawn using it into consideration. When I'm using said engine I already know what I can and can't do and therefore know how to use it. It is much more difficult to invent something than to use it or even replicate the result. Please stop beating a dead horse, stop being so solid on your point, there is no more points to make. Iv'e even took the time to discuss your argument in real life with friends who program themselves and this argument has been mocked many times. You can try to "beat sense" into me all day, but unless you actually state a valid argument without being overly protective of what you do then I will not listen.

Also, because you do seem to think that I am somehow trying to lower the status of your effort, I liked this project until you started making circle logic invalid arguments that partially had nothing to do with what the argument was started about.

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I can't help myself to not respond...

Ok, firstly you are arguing about something you have no experience in and making statements on what you think is right.

Go back in the first response I gave you, so now I'm a part of that team and I actually know the development process of a 2D engine, not a big one, but I don't think we're talking about those, are we? No I never tried to make one, but you didn't try to make a PCG (procedural city generator) also, right?

Secondly, saying its not about difficulty and about time is exactly like saying its not difficult, by removing the variable of difficulty from the argument you are distinctly disagreeing with its significance therefore saying that the difficulty is the same.

I wasn't saying it is not difficult, they can both be easy or be hard as hell, depends on what you want to do, if you want to make a simple asteroids game then making the engine would be harder. If you think that if something takes too long it is because its difficult things can be easy but at the same time require a long process, well it took what 10 years for you to finish school(depends on where you live), was it that difficult?

Thirdly, I never disagreed with your time argument, time is not the factor, you can make a text based interface and you can make a graphical interface and the graphical might take more time but the difficulty is the same. When making a game engine you must take into consideration every aspect of what you might use the engine for, this is much more difficult than just using the engine. (at least when working alone or with comparable workforce) If I am doing a tile engine I need to ensure to take every aspect of what might be drawn using it into consideration. When I'm using said engine I already know what I can and can't do and therefore know how to use it. It is much more difficult to invent something than to use it or even replicate the result. Please stop beating a dead horse, stop being so solid on your point, there is no more points to make. Iv'e even took the time to discuss your argument in real life with friends who program themselves and this argument has been mocked many times. You can try to "beat sense" into me all day, but unless you actually state a valid argument without being overly protective of what you do then I will not listen.

For me Time is the main variable, because I've learned in this experiment that it is not difficulty that unables something to be developed but time, with time I can with some certainty make almost anything, surely somethings could take a lifetime and those are out of the table. See, before this, I was making a reservoir simulator, I'm no programer, no... I'm a petroleum engineer undergraduate, so this simulator first worked on forward Euler, which is a basis for some physics engines out there, but the simulation took so long to give an output that we've switched to an implicit method with sparse matrix, which then proved to give better results and faster, with that we've tried to go to 3D simulation, well let's say that that is difficult! The physics behind it is freaking hard but the coding side it was simple enough, I'm still working on it. What I want to say with that is that for me that was hard, not to program it but to develop the numerical analysis behind it, that was challenging and it didn't took so long... In this case it is the opposite, I have a lot of little things to develop with no extended numerical analysis behind it, if I want to make it better then I could optimize it, but it is all about discovering things, how thy work and how you can use it. Making an engine is something like working on an engine, but you're working on openGL or whatever, unless you want to be REAL hardcore about it and THAT would be HARD! Otherwise, is just about finding out how you can solve your problem with the tools you have.

I do have to take every aspect of what I'm developing because I need to make it viable to the user make his own content, btw I'm even considering on making an building editor, this last script is my best work up until now, maybe I'll make it... It would be really nice though, maybe with some help I can focus on this.

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http://pastebin.com/vN2Etpda

still not finished, didnt get much done honestly. but I've left a note on what the next story will be.(yay murder)

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I can't help myself to not respond...

Go back in the first response I gave you, so now I'm a part of that team and actually know the development process of a 2D engine, not a big one, but I don't think we're talking about that, are we? No I never tried to make one, but you didn't try to make a PCG (procedural city generator) also, right?

I wasn't saying it is not difficult, they can both be easy or be hard as hell, depends on what you want to do, if you want to make a simple asteroids game then making the engine would be harder.

Time is the main variable, because I've learned in this experiment that it is not difficulty that unables something to be developed but time, with time I can with some certainty make almost anything, surely somethings could take a lifetime and those are out of the table. See, before this, I was making a reservoir simulator, I'm no programer, no... I'm a petroleum engineer undergraduate, so this simulator first worked on forward Euler, which is a basis for some physics engines out there, but the simulation took so long to give an output that we've switched to an implicit method with sparse matrix, which then proved to give better results and faster, with that we've tried to go to 3D simulation, well let's say that that is difficult! The physics behind it is freaking hard but the coding side it was simple enough, I'm still working on it. What I want to say with that is that for me that was hard, not to program it but to develop the numerical analysis behind it, that was challenging and it didn't took so long... In this case it is the opposite, I have a lot of little things to develop with no extended numerical analysis behind it, if I want to make it better then I could optimize it, but it is all about discovering things, how thy work and how you can use it. Making an engine is something like working on an engine, but you're working on openGL or whatever, unless you want to be REAL hardcore about it and THAT would be HARD! Otherwise, is just about finding out how you can solve your problem with the tools you have.

I do have to take every aspect of what I'm developing because I need to make it viable to the user make his own content, btw I'm even considering on making an building editor, this last script is my best work up until now, maybe I'll make it... It would be really nice though, maybe with some help I can focus on this.

http://www.thefreedi...y.com/difficult

Posted Image

http://www.thefreedi...ary.com/arduous

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"Testing severely the powers of endurance"

http://www.thefreedi...y.com/endurance

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duration

http://www.thefreedi...ry.com/duration

Posted Image

"time"

Hmm.

And then there's: "I do have to take every aspect of what I'm developing because I need to make it viable to the user make his own content, btw I'm even considering on making an building editor, this last script is my best work up until now, maybe I'll make it... It would be really nice though, maybe with some help I can focus on this."

Hmm.

Posted Image

Posted Image

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what?... Just what? You didn't even had any argument there.

hmmm I see...

Difficult is to endure your lack of sense and the duration of this arguing. Why do I keep responding to trolls?

Plus if you don't know you should read Crysyn's rules for this forum. http://en.wikipedia....Wheaton.27s_law

Hmm, since words wouldn't work I tried using links and pictures.

Also, nice scapegoat there. You lost an argument so you call me a troll. And on top of that an arsehole, I remember somewhere some guy making a remark about stones and glass houses.

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Hmm, since words wouldn't work I tried using links and pictures.

Also, nice scapegoat there. You lost an argument so you call me a troll. And on top of that an arsehole, I remember somewhere some guy making a remark about stones and glass houses.

Sorry if you feel like I'm an arsehole, if you want to continue this 'conversation' without memes I'm at the IRC. Otherwise I'll try to keep this on-topic. Thank you anyway.

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Sorry if you feel like I'm an arsehole, if you want to continue this 'conversation' without memes I'm at the IRC. Otherwise I'll try to keep this on-topic. Thank you anyway.

Hmm, a comment which is not based on defensive aggression. I guess that's settled then.

Good day to you too.

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