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20 posts in this topic

So, after lurking the forums for at LEAST seven months, I've decided to publicize my LOVE for Terra Firma, Regardless of whether or not I can play it.

I've always liked the mod, because it simply made things much more complicated to endure!

Sorry if I sound like I'm five, I've exhausted all possible grammatical prowess in writing something the other day.

I'd also like to ask on a rather personal note, what do all of the fine fellows of this forum, believe about relative to gun control in first world countries?

No flame, simple controversy here.

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I realise this is the off topic thread but perhaps this is an example of what's said in Vegas should stay in Vegas.

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... ._. There isn't that much i can say 'bout that, as i'm not from a first world country (barely second world)... So yeah, useless post.

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Did you know there is no 'second' world? It was originally the Old world of Europe, Asia and Africa and the New world of the America's, Australasia et al. Africa and other poor regions or nation's got split off into 'The Third World' relatively recently as a political statement.

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say whatever you want, Argentina is not a poor country... but neither is it a rich one... so yeah, i would say it's in the middle (thus, second world, not third nor first)

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Well, that thread went downhill fast.

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Welcome to the TFC forums. Where you can't expect a thread in off topic to keep itself in topic. And if you don't believe me, go see the "name me" thread.

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simply put: not a single 'first world' country allows legal guns cept for 'murikah. there is a reason for that. (just look at the amount of death by guns we get versus you mericans, and you'll see the picture.

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simply put: not a single 'first world' country allows legal guns cept for 'murikah. there is a reason for that. (just look at the amount of death by guns we get versus you mericans, and you'll see the picture.

And where might you be from? Your location isn't all that helpful...

Also, only Americans can use the term "'merica", it's our joke about ourselves, if you take that away all we have is our twinkies to wipe away the tears before we shove it down our throats as we sob into the now empty wrapper in despair as we realize that was the last Twinkie we will ever consume because Hostess went out of business.

(Sarcasm wuz here, please do not take this to mean I am an obese, stereotypical, McDonald's worshiping American, or that those people make up the majority of my country. They don't.)

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So, after lurking the forums for at LEAST seven months, I've decided to publicize my LOVE for Terra Firma, Regardless of whether or not I can play it.

I've always liked the mod, because it simply made things much more complicated to endure!

Sorry if I sound like I'm five, I've exhausted all possible grammatical prowess in writing something the other day.

I'd also like to ask on a rather personal note, what do all of the fine fellows of this forum, believe about relative to gun control in first world countries?

No flame, simple controversy here.

I understand that assault rifles and semiautomatic weapons weren't around like they are today when the second ammendment was written. And that in nd of itself may give reason enough to ammend the second ammendment, but the reasons for radically implementing gun control in the fashion that it has been is downright ludicrous.

I, at the age of 14, remember taking a .223 semiautomatic, an m-16 assault rifle, and a muzzle loader rifle and 6 shooter out into fields by my house with my friend Rick, and we would have target practice.

The farthest, and I mean farthest thing from either of our heads was going to a school and taking out our peers in an act of nothing short of evil intent. It was unheard of and it didn't happen.

A lot has changed since then, and that was only 30 years ago.

This gun control is just that ... control.

While the nation was reeling from the horrific CT incident and what happened to those poor children, NY's governor quickly passed a law that not only made it illegal for John Q to have an assault rifle, and regulate our clips and ammo, but the police are walking around with illegal weapons as well. Thanks for the thoughtful guidelines to that law, Nimrod! Heck, NY police are still trying to wrap their heads around it.

In a country that boasts freedom and liberty, we sure as hell don't hold back when it comes to piling on the pig-headedness.

I'm not sure what is more terrifying, 4 more years with a president who passes laws like the one making it possible for my 12 year old daughter to get and abortion on the tax payer, and I as a parent not having the lawful right to know, or reading Mein Kampf and seeing just how close we are to the 1940's.

I'm no conspiracy theorist, but when it comes to push and shove, and one right after another gets slowly stripped away, what will we the people have to fight back with?

Ok... let the flame war begin. Lol

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Agree with Menoch, in America in particular, our problem still isn't the guns but the people that misuse them. Our education system and associated areas would certainly be a good place to start. As of right now I can guarantee you that if I walk from one end of the end of our high school to the other, I would be shocked if someone along the way didn't try to sell me drugs. I don't even do drugs! For gods sake, I am a nerdy Christian (not being religious), why the hell would I want heroine? And its not like I live in compton or something, we are a pretty average high school. And what does Obama care about? Making us pay for the druggies health care.

Why would we even take away guns anyways? Who are we taking them from? I'll tell you right now it won't be the unregistered guns, it will hunting rifles, and small pistols that old ladies carry in their purses. Now the gangs, dealers, and half my high school will all be hiding these in their basement. Now when someone gets robbed, how the hell are they going to protect themselves? And now the already busy cops will spend their time chasing some random hicks instead of solving any real issues.

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It's amazing how little actual thoughtful evidence based opinions there are around this subject and how quickly it degenerates into 'I hate Obama' and 'paying for druggies', "We need our guns to protect us from the oppressive Federal Government, so where were the guns when the lawful protesters on Wall St were being Pepper sprayed?

The actual evidence shows that people are safer without having access to guns throughout the world, and there have been reports that Mexican drug gangs buy their guns in America because it's easier and cheaper, way to 'War on Drugs' 'Murica. It's not just your children dying but other countries as well.

There is this argument about 'How will we defend ourselves?', from who? How many deaths are from actual criminals rather than accidents, mental health issues and plain stupidity, it's the failure of the system to keep up with how weapons have become more powerful that has got you into this state, now you're to scared and too brainwashed into being able to do anything about it.

I'd ask any American to ponder this question "Why, even after the tragic deaths of these and other children are groups like the NRA unable to even admit there MIGHT be a problem and hammer on about their "2nd Amendment rights" when many of the same people will deny personal rights to the majority of the population?"

Remember, America, a supposedly free Nation legislates where people can and can't cross the road but won't restrict the potential of weapons.

And finally, at bsb23 (the nerdy christian); Heroine is the feminine equivalent of hero, Heroin is a drug. If people are selling drugs in YOUR high school then why are they being allowed to and precisely how is this the Presidents fault? The problems would have been there long before he took office. And whilst you live in your nerdy christian world, heroin addicts are committing crimes to fund their habit, they are so desperate they will rob their own families for a hit. You might want to look up how much it costs to prosecute these addicts and how much society pays in increased insurance and home security. but Methadone treatment costs pennies a day and is proven to reduce drug related crimes and deaths, so why would you think that's a bad idea?

So, why would a group of supposedly 'christian' men and women advocate lax gun control, when Jesus is specifically quoted on many occasions of decrying violence as an answer to violence? Look into it yourself, you might find answers you don't like.

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Personally, I believe that lenient gun control laws lead to most gun violence in 1st world nations. Canada doesn't have any fewer crazy people than America does (per capita) and we have a LOT of guns, I think >30 M guns, which is nearly one gun for every man woman and child, but we have strict laws about where you can store guns, where you can carry and use them and the licenses you need to have to buy one. The gun-related death rate in America is 10.2, much higher than Canada, Australia, or any european country. America's is actually higher than many 2nd and 3rd world countries.

In short, I believe that keeping guns for protection is ridiculous. Lets say someone breaks into your house with a gun (assuming you live in America where you can actually kill someone just for entering your house). There is now a gun in your house, and the chance that someone will be hurt increases. However, most houses are NEVER broken into, yet have a gun within them, which is a huge liability and contributes to many gun deaths especially when children get a hold of them.

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"It's amazing how little actual thoughtful evidence based opinions there are around this subject and how quickly it degenerates into 'I hate Obama' and 'paying for druggies', "We need our guns to protect us from the oppressive Federal Government, so where were the guns when the lawful protesters on Wall St were being Pepper sprayed?"

---

Oppressive Federal Government: Great Britain... See 1785 - 1783

Oppressive Federal Government: Slavery... See 1861 - 1865

Protestors make a point, meaningfully. I support that. The bongo players, campers, doobie smokers, and guys selling beer and food didn't seem to understand that. They thought it was Woodstock. I don't support that, and neither did most new yorkers trying to go about their work weeks. Move along. I passed through that circus quite a few times. I live in NY. Where'd you say you live again? Oh yea... not in America.

---

"The actual evidence shows that people are safer without having access to guns throughout the world, and there have been reports that Mexican drug gangs buy their guns in America because it's easier and cheaper, way to 'War on Drugs' 'Murica. It's not just your children dying but other countries as well."

)---

The actual evidence also shows that if you don't swim in the ocean you stand a fair chance of never being eaten by a shark. DUH! Guess what though. Guns exist. And that is pretty much a documented fact.

You know... like Mexican drug gangs buying guns from 'Merica.

Where are these reports again?

---

"There is this argument about 'How will we defend ourselves?', from who? How many deaths are from actual criminals rather than accidents, mental health issues and plain stupidity, it's the failure of the system to keep up with how weapons have become more powerful that has got you into this state, now you're to scared and too brainwashed into being able to do anything about it."

---

Defend ourselves from who: Right down the street from me, a Catholic lady was found dead three weeks ago. A week before that a man across the street on the second floor. All from the same man which was also being held for two other murders.

You come into my house uninvited, knowing you don't belong there, and especially if my wife and kids are home, you can bet your backside you will be leaving in a body bag. And I don't need an assault rifle to do that. But i WILL use my Browning.

You know what its like on my street though cuz

.. oh yea... that's right you live in another country...

---

"I'd ask any American to ponder this question "Why, even after the tragic deaths of these and other children are groups like the NRA unable to even admit there MIGHT be a problem and hammer on about their "2nd Amendment rights" when many of the same people will deny personal rights to the majority of the population?"

---

I have a better idea. Why don't you ask them yourself:

WWW.NRA.org/

Then you can keep that info to yourself as I could give a crap about their club. They don't represent America, and they don't represent me.

Though that might be what you think, what, from the news and interweb where you get all your "facts" from.

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"Remember, America, a supposedly free Nation legislates where people can and can't cross the road but won't restrict the potential of weapons."

---

Crosswalk, as I am sure they are called in other countries... maybe... are the safest place to cross, as it is in these places that motorists are most likely to be aware of pedestrians/easier to see...

You can come out into the middle of the street from between 2 parked cars if you like, but that might break you.

And I think many of us would rather you not be broken, thus wasting our time cleaning your stupid-ass parts off the street.

That's why there is an icky mean street-crossing law.

---

"But wont restrict the potential of weapons": I know, riiight? I tried to get my portable SAM Launcher last week.... oh wait... i was denied! Wtf!

Give me a break...

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"And finally, at bsb23 (the nerdy christian); Heroine is the feminine equivalent of hero, Heroin is a drug."

---

Thank goodness you corrected him. Everyone would have been like... wtf is he talking about!

But not really...

---

" If people are selling drugs in YOUR high school then why are they being allowed to and precisely how is this the Presidents fault? The problems would have been there long before he took office. And whilst you live in your nerdy christian world, heroin addicts are committing crimes to fund their habit, they are so desperate they will rob their own families for a hit. You might want to look up how much it costs to prosecute these addicts and how much society pays in increased insurance and home security. but Methadone treatment costs pennies a day and is proven to reduce drug related crimes and deaths, so why would you think that's a bad idea?"

---

Alright. Finally I agree with you on something... for the most part. Among the same horoin'e' addicts are also prostitutes who continually use abortions as birth control. And everybody is made to pay for that. Even those tax payers who are adamantly against such an act. That is our President's 'Christian' belief.

Not to mention Meth clinics are only beneficial to those who actually "want" to get clean or are court ordered.

---

"So, why would a group of supposedly 'christian' men and women advocate lax gun control, when Jesus is specifically quoted on many occasions of decrying violence as an answer to violence? Look into it yourself, you might find answers you don't like."

---

Since you want to pull out the Jesus Card, I think it would only be fair you support that 'evidence' yourself. You can't? I'm not surprised. Its always a convenience for people to use the words of Christ when it is to their benefit or befitting them.

Matthew 5:39... one of many places Christ says if a man should strike your cheek, turn unto him the other one.

And in John 15:13, "Greater love hath no man than this, that he lay down his life for his friend."

Christians don't condone violence or lax gun laws.

On the contrary many people that go to my church are over seas at this time. And throughout American history, many Christians died for not only our freedom, but for our rights.

No we don't condone lax gun laws.

We just support politicians who use at least half a brain when passing said laws. That was not the case when it went down.

Were you actually in this country, watching local news, you would have seen that. Even the police had no idea what was going on.

As I mentioned at the beginning of my post, assault weapons as they are now didn't exist when the 2nd ammendment was being passed which in and of itself may deem an ammendment.

But the fact of the matter is assault weapons are nothing new under the sun for the past 100+ years.

And in closing, since you want to lean upon the Word of God, 2 Thessalonians 3:10 states "For even when we were with you, this we commanded you, that if any would not work, neither should he eat."

Since Obama has been in office the rate of unemployment and welfare has increased. Nothing is done to quell this, even so much as drug testing. Obama has already stated that those who have, should give to those who don't have.

Welfare has its role and I am more than happy to help those in need so long as they are willing to help themselves.

But I have to piss in a cup for my paycheck so it is only fair that you should have to piss in a cup for my paycheck too.

This is one of the many reasons I don't like Obama and what he stands for. There is a fine line between welfare and communism.

Dude these are opinions being spoken by myself, an American, and Bsb, an American. But don't tell us our opinions are wrong because there are 'reports' and 'evidence' and then call us brainwashed and lacking thoughtful evidence.

Do me a favor. Move to America and then you can tell me how my opinion is skewed because I'm brainwashed.

---

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I'm really surprised by some of your arguments, but at least we agree on treatment being better than punishment for addicts. An effective treatment regime would reduce prostitution, unwanted pregnancies and sexually transmitted diseases, all good things in any ones opinion. I also fully agree that if someone wants welfare they should test clean for drugs, I've been drug tested, it's a minor embarrassing hassle, but at least you're paid for the time. And (this is only an opinion) it may reduce overall drug use, as well as the associated violence. Why? because it would eat into the profit margins of the dealers and stop it being such a lucrative trade.

SAM missiles were never part of this argument, but as you've raised them they must be available somehow because American citizens supplied them to the IRA to be used against your NATO ally. Yes, I do know that for certain, as a veteran I have been party to a lot off information that is not common knowledge. Also, as a veteran, I served along side many good men and women of the American armed forces

Those same American service personnel were the source of much of my 'non media' information about the USA, good people who spoke about their homeland with pride, even if, after serving abroad they saw how things could be run differently and by their own admission, sometimes better. America is a great country but it does not have a monopoly on good ideas.

Of course crossings are the safest places to cross but do you really need to criminalise crossing the road in the wrong place?

And history lessons from the American civil war and war of independence, really? Can you imagine a shell shocked union soldier going on the rampage with a muzzle loader? Yes he could use his bayonet or his stock as a club, but he would have been much easier to stop than somebody armed with a modern self loader. You can't meaningfully compare swimming with gun crime, when was the last time a shark ate its way through a group of people?

Christians died for their religion, as have people of many other religions, in your armed forces there are Christians, Muslims, Jews and Atheists (and of course others, including Satanists, supposedly). They look to their own conscience as to their actions in defence of their country, but you have quoted chapter and verse precisely why it's not compatible with Christianity to own a gun to kill criminals, I'm surprised you can't see the conflict there.

I'm sorry to hear about the deaths in your neighbourhood, there are gun attacks in the UK, especially within areas of high gang activity but they are few and far between, precisely because we have tough gun laws.

Now you've mentioned that since Obama came to power the rate of unemployment and welfare has increased, that's not Obama's fault, it's true of much of the industrialised world. It's due to the failure to regulate banking properly and a general attitude that greed is good amongst certain groups. A world wide slump is inevitably going to increase state dependence but the same people who caused this problem are pointing at the poor and blaming them, and in a final twist of the ironic knife, many of these poor are unable to work because their jobs are out sourced to the third world. I don't know this but I strongly suspect that a lot of the problems, in a city like Detroit, started when the jobs dried up as manufacturing moved abroad.

Welfare being a thin line away from communism is just plain old silly scare mongering and America's obsession with it is frankly disturbing, look what it did to Guatamala where the duly elected Government was overthrown by CIA supported rebels, which is a matter of public record, why? Because the people wanted to get some of their land back from the banana plantations. But if communism is so bad why does America consistently support a small nation that has a long history of communes and still has approx 100,000 people living in them? Which country is that? Israel. I'm not knocking Israel's right to exist only that they do have many communes known as Kibbutz. In my opinion comparing welfare to communism is unhelpful and to go back to religion for a moment, do you think many people still pay their tithe to the church? That was money (sometimes regarded to be 10% of their income) to be used to help the good works of the church, such as helping the poor and sick.

Finally, why do I say brainwashed, because America invented it and perfected it, it was a man named Eddie Bernays who started the ball rolling, countries like the Soviet Union and Communist China used very crude indoctrination and the threat of violence to control the population, Eddie Bernays' techniques are still used by politicians to this day, they know how to push our buttons and it is difficult to stop them.

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I'm going to nip this in the bud and let this topic die before it gets out of control.. like it hasn't already. I am making points you aren't seeing/are taking waaay out of context and you are making points I am definitely not seeing nor make any sense to me whatsoever.

You have an opinion from a non American perspective, and I have mine from the viewpoint of being an actual American. Lets agree to disagree on this topic and carry on.

No harm no foul.

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History will repeat itself if the common people is not armed. Luckily in america, the entire military here is sworn to uphold the constitution OVER their CO... so even without our guns guess what wouldn't happen.

It's not something that is to be decided by the government, as a matter of fact, the government entirely is broken, replace it with what it once was; a DEMOCRATIC REPUBLIC. I can't stand America anymore, but it's the safest. While we have gun deaths out the ass here, it's still hundred times safer then most other places.

No matter where you look in the past, whenever the common people lose the right to bear arms, Genocide, Slavery, and War Crimes are ALWAYS comitted. You cannot disprove this, and if you could it is such a rare event that it is to be ignored altogether. An armed society is a polite society.

HOWEVER.

IF you dont want an assault rifle, don't fucking get one, but don't ruin the next guys day by making him unable to own one.

AS well of the other side, if you want an assault rifle, don't force the next guy to own one.

Example of why firearms are important.

Let's take a game for example. DayZ, because it just seems to help my analogy here.

I remember having a a person with an AS50 (which he stole from a clan car) attack constantly, never stopped and it was always against people less armed then him, I watched him not engage jeeps with clan guys in them. but as soon as he lost his ammo/gun itself, he instantly held his hand out asking for help. This is a game, but games are only an alternate reality. I Disarmed him, and he stopped, because there was nothing he could do. This is the same for REAL people, if someone has a gun, they have power... now if everyone has a gun, Everyone is near equal.

Nothing can account for the sickos though, they are variables that cannot be accounted for/stopped. That's just how stuff works. That's what law enforcement is for.

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Wait a minute, just trying to make something clear. You guys actually think that owning a gun is going to do a dam thing to protect your rights if the government suddenly decided to take over? Dude. Give me a fucking break! A gun ain't gonna do shit against F-22s, Unmanned planes, tanks, land to land missiles, or bomber planes...

The only thing a gun stops is defenseless people's lives.

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Personally I don't see the point in ever owning a gun except for hunting.

I'm not really sure I get the whole 'individual protection'-argument. I mean, if your personal safety is not guaranteed, isn't that then a problem of the federal government failing in providing you with this? Should it not exclusively be a job for the law enforcing body to grant individuals a feeling of protection?

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I'm with Menoch on this, this argument is way to inflammatory for any meaningful discussion.

A final note for both sides, please be very wary of where you get get your information from, yes on gun control but also in general. Every thing you hear or read is biased, you don't know if the guy writing the report is best buds with the head of the NRA or the head of the United States Pacifist Party (had to search to find that). As a recommendation, try changing the news paper you read, if your normally conservative try something more liberal and vice versa. Why? Because then you will notice the bias and it will help broaden your views.

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