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stringburka

Brewing and beverages

80 posts in this topic

This gives Dunk a whole new dimension to consider while improving the bear mobs.

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o.O What CAN'T be made into vodka?

Tiny woodland creatures!

Oh wait...

..is this a trick question?

O.o

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Tiny woodland creatures!

Oh wait...

..is this a trick question?

O.o

welll, thechnically, there is blood in small woodland creaturs, there is at least some ammount of sugar in blood, and thus, by fermenting that sugar, we can essentialy make small woodland creatures(or humans) into alcohol
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this is a pretty damn simple and elegant solution that could potentially be improved upon, like putting weird stuff in the brew to make potions similar to how the vanilla potion making originally was gonna work. On the subject of RL meatbeer, I think that it would rot before it fermented. Now making an infusion in some neutral grain spirits might be a better idea. Like put some sausages in a bottle of everclear.

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welll, thechnically, there is blood in small woodland creaturs, there is at least some ammount of sugar in blood, and thus, by fermenting that sugar, we can essentialy make small woodland creatures(or humans) into alcohol

naturally occurring bacteria yeast can convert most of that other stuff into fuel, and at that point would be able to produce alcohol from pretty much any organic material you can provide that they can digest.
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this is a pretty damn simple and elegant solution that could potentially be improved upon, like putting weird stuff in the brew to make potions similar to how the vanilla potion making originally was gonna work. On the subject of RL meatbeer, I think that it would rot before it fermented. Now making an infusion in some neutral grain spirits might be a better idea. Like put some sausages in a bottle of everclear.

Yeah! This would be really cool. It could be like a whole new meal system. With booze :P Pork flavoured vodka anyone?

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naturally occurring bacteria yeast can convert most of that other stuff into fuel, and at that point would be able to produce alcohol from pretty much any organic material you can provide that they can digest.

A vampiric Manhattan anyone? Puts a new twist on a Bloody Mary, eh?

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Dunk was asking for fun hidden stuff a while back. Being able to brew the butchered remains of a bear (as the only type of meat possible to brew, tsk tsk for cannibalism) would be a delightful easter egg that people here could enjoy.

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A vampiric Manhattan anyone? Puts a new twist on a Bloody Mary, eh?

well you know, i'm having a friend over for dinner....
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I love the idea, I've always felt that Brewing is fascinating in Real-Life and for some reason it never gets the love it deserves on games.

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OP has some really good ideas, and being able to brew booze ingame is wonderful. But mind if I throw some ideas of mine here?

Starting off-topic:

Heh. Not much. I wonder if there's some way to alcoholize fat or proteins. It'd be interesting to have meatbeer. In real life, I mean.

By a natural process? I wouldn't bet my stakes in this.

Proteins have huge loads of nitrogen as amino radicals - these need to be either oxidized to nitrogen or transformed in ammonia to leave just carbon, hydrogen and oxygen in the molecule. Amino -> ammonia reaction requires energy, so this leaves only oxidization as possibility.

Fats are easier in theory, it's just about oxidizing them at the right spots and you're golden. But if you're a yeast, how can you oxidize substances? With oxygen. And if you have oxygen at hand, why bother making alcohol, since you can "burn" everything for all that tasty energy?

Brewing only works with sugars because of their huge oxygen amount: oxygen atoms in the molecule decide to bully specific carbons, these leave the school solution as carbon dioxide, and the leftover is alcohol. But if there's air's oxygen disponible, the yeast will simply "burn" all sugar to carbon dioxide and produce no alcohol. That's why we put some funny "lids" in the top of bottles when homebrewing:

Posted Image

Now, on-topic. In a believable system, with or without yeast added, there's no booze if you got air. And being required to craft a lid is convenient for gameplay reasons - it ties brewing to a minimum tech tier. Trying to be consistent with ingame elements, I can think at least two ways to do so:

  • The lid is crafted with glass and/or glass panes in a siphon format. It can be used only once; or
  • The lid is made in the same way as metal tools (ore to ingot, plan, smithing = tool). Metal used and the blacksmith's ability interfere in the odds of air breaching and its consequences (spoiling and wasting juice, work and yeast).
Both have advantages and disadvantages. The first one can be accessed earlier in the game, but requires maintenance (crafting a new lid each time you're brewing). The second one is accessed later in the game, but if you're a really good blacksmith and use a good metal, you just need to craft it once.

Now, about the yeast... this can be made as complex or as simple as Bioxx and Dunk want it to be.

  • Simple way: using a wooden bowl in already made wine/beer yields yeast. Putting yeast in the fruit juice gives some bonus - quicker fermentation, smaller odds of spoiling, better effects, etc.
  • Complex way: some kind of evolution! Yeast has different "strains", obtained by mutations of older ones. They brew different wines/beers, aswell give different bonuses to your beverage. Going by this strain of yeast thought can give the beverage variety people want.
Ah, and for both beer and ale, we'll need hops - as a side-effect, eating a hop could be used to cure poison (much like milk), since it's medicinal.

Aaaand... that's it.

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Now, on-topic. In a believable system, with or without yeast added, there's no booze if you got air.

Huh? There are styles of beer that are produced with open-air fermentation and wild yeasts. IIRC lambics and sour ales? I'm also pretty sure that's how alcohol was first found - by accident when wheat/rain mixed in a barrel and it was left open (and caught wild yeast).

I don't know if that's what you meant or not, sorry if I misunderstood.

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Huh? There are styles of beer that are produced with open-air fermentation and wild yeasts. IIRC lambics and sour ales? I'm also pretty sure that's how alcohol was first found - by accident when wheat/rain mixed in a barrel and it was left open (and caught wild yeast).

I don't know if that's what you meant or not, sorry if I misunderstood.

alcohol, to be picky ;) , more probably was first tasted when early man picked up a fruit that had started producing alcohol inside after falling off the trees.

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In a believable system, with or without yeast added, there's no booze if you got air.

This isn't true. Here you have a guide on how to do it as well as some examples of beers on the market that are open-air fermented. I've also done so myself, by mistake, when I was young and wanted cheap alcohol and thought "hey, if I just throw this cheap-ass fruit squash (very common in sweden) in a plastic barrel with some baking yeast, that'll at least work!". It was open-air, it became alcohol, and it sure as hell wasn't drinkable.

Of course, open-air fermentation leads to a beer with a lot less sparkles, but I think we can live with that ;)

Yeast evolution on the other hand, sounds awesome - and the same thing can be done for agriculture in general. As has been noted before, IC2 has an agricultural system that is quite interesting, but it's also quite complex.

I do think that any kind of evolution and quality difference and such should be made in a few stages though - I don't really like having a bazillion different things to keep track of.

EDIT: And of course, having a water-lock mechanic for lids sounds great. I'd prefer if it was made by cheramics, though, as that makes another use of clay (and also it makes sense to make them out of cheramics due to moldability etc).

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This isn't true. Here you have a guide on how to do it as well as some examples of beers on the market that are open-air fermented. I've also done so myself, by mistake, when I was young and wanted cheap alcohol and thought "hey, if I just throw this cheap-ass fruit squash (very common in sweden) in a plastic barrel with some baking yeast, that'll at least work!". It was open-air, it became alcohol, and it sure as hell wasn't drinkable.

Thanks for the link, it's really interesting - as far as I was aware, an open system would make the yeast stop the fermentation, but looks like a carbon dioxide itself layer around the top makes a "lid". I need to try that someday.

On the evolution: two or three variables to keep track would be the ideal - not enough so one's overwhelmed and lost track of them, but already capable of a fairy complex system justifying a professional "brewer" in servers. Yeast type, speed and quality would already be enough, I think.

And why didn't I think in ceramic lids? :)

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alcohol, to be picky ;) , more probably was first tasted when early man picked up a fruit that had started producing alcohol inside after falling off the trees.

That works for wines, but not for beers.
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Interesting. I suggested beer and wine last summer. On a suggestion forum for Advanced Cooking. That forum has been taken down, and the team disbanded. Key developers went back to school in September. So I've been working on it myself. This mod is for vanilla Minecraft, not TFC, but "Booze" is almost finished.

This introduces a few new crops: grape vines, hop vines, and heather. And equipment: barrel, carboy, and brew pot. You can make yeast from fruit and water (either apple or grape). Cheesecloth is necessary to rack wine from the barrel to carboy; we don't have cotton so my mod has to make cheesecloth from wool. Let's just ignore the oils in wool. This mod goes through the entire process of making beer from grain. Minecraft doesn't have barley, but barley started from a wild tall grass at the same time and area where wheat was first developed. So I just use wheat. No sense in having two varieties of wheat-like crops. The barrel is used to soak grain prior to sprouting. As the primary fermenter to turn grapes and water into wine. As the "mashing ton" to soak malted grain. And rather than a separate "lauter tun" that has a sieve in the bottom, you just use cheesecloth to transfer to the brew pot. That means consuming a piece of cheesecloth with each batch, but it means I don't need another piece of equipment. If people want a lauter tun, I could add one later. I coded 4 varieties of beer: the first is what was made prior to the 11th century, using dandelion (yellow flower) instead of hops. That's called ale. Yes, modern ale is made with hops, but it wasn't before a formal study of bittering agents done in Bavaria in the 11th century. They discovered hops. The second is beer, made with hops. You'll have to do some exploring to find a hop vine, then you can farm it. If you double roast sprouts, you get dark malted grain. Use that with hops and you get Irish stout. And the last is Scotch beer, regular malted grain but made with heather instead of hops or dandelion. Heather will generate in extreme hills biome only.

http://www.minecraft...0-rbdycks-mods/

Future additions to this mod: distillery, to convert beer and ale into whiskey, scotch beer into scotch whiskey (scotch), and wine into brandy. There will also be a procedure to brew sugar into rum.

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Reading through this thread: pine need vodka? How about something more mundane: potato vodka. In real life that has lots of uses. You soak vanilla bean in it to make vanilla extract (the real stuff, artificial is completely different). Or soak seeds from a plant called fenugreek in vodka for a couple months, then add vanilla extract to make imitation maple extract. Can anyone say "pancake syrup"? I knew you could. But in MInecraft, why not just make real maple syrup? Anyway, vodka would be another alcoholic beverage.

I should have the first version of my mod up later tonight.

stringburka: since your mod is for TFC, our mods are not competing. How about collaborating? I haven't figured out how to make a custom potion. That means my beer and wine bottles are just objects, you can't drink them. To drink, it has to be a potion. How do I add a custom potion?

And I want to add a blood alcohol meter. When you drink, the meter goes up. Over time it goes down. When you sleep, it goes to zero, but you get a hangover. If blood alcohol gets above a certain level, then "drunk" effects begin. At first you get random messages such as "Strength +1!" "Dexterity +1!" or "Speed +1!" or activate the "level up" sound effect without causing a level up. Or similar messages that indicate greatly improved abilities. But they're just messages, they don't give you anything at all. This simulates the false confidence that getting mildly drunk gives you. If you drink more, you move randomly a little in any direction: north/east/south/west. If you drink too much then the "confusion" potion effect gets triggered. That effect already exists, it's easy to trigger. It's the effect when you go through a nether portal: the world swirls before your eyes. If you continue to drink anyway, then projectile vomiting: spew on whatever is in front of you. If you're in a multiplayer game and facing a friend, you spew onto his face. Won't cause any damage, but just disgusting. Somehow I see some people doing this to their friends on purpose. But since the "confusion" potion effect will be active, aiming will be difficult. Vomiting will drop your blood alcohol level a little.

If your blood alcohol level was high when you went to sleep, when you wake up you'll be sober but hung-over. Hangover effects include video brightness randomly flashing to max, and sound volume randomly spiking to max. And render distance to tiny, and view bobbing on. Sleeping another night clears a hang-over.

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barley can go in vodka too! Hell, all the grains we have can be fermented and distilled if you want to get real in depth with it.

...with some baking yeast, ...

Oh god my brother did this once. Do not do this. Holy shit is it bad, one guy took a sip of it and immediately got a migraine. It's OK for fermenting something you're not going to drink like pokeberry juice for ink.
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rbdyck: This isn't a mod I'm making; I can't program for my life. It's just a suggestion for the TFC/TFC2 devs. However, your mod looks great - maybe consider talking to the TFC or TFC2 devs (Dunkleosaurus/Bioxx respectively) if you could get access to implementing it with their crops? Generally they seem adverse to allowing others access to the code, but as you seem an experienced dev and your mod really fits well with TFC, maybe one of them will make an exception?

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If your blood alcohol level was high when you went to sleep, when you wake up you'll be sober but hung-over. Hangover effects include video brightness randomly flashing to max, and sound volume randomly spiking to max. And render distance to tiny, and view bobbing on. Sleeping another night clears a hang-over.

Maybe have some caffeine drinks to speed up the hangover clearing? Coffee, yerba mate, this kind of thing? (These would be nice)
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I wonder if there's some way to alcoholize fat or proteins. It'd be interesting to have meatbeer. In real life, I mean.

Tiny woodland creatures! Oh wait... ..is this a trick question? O.o

Star Trek - The Next Generation and Star Trek - Deep Space Nine, both had a Klingon beverage called Blood Wine. It was supposed to taste bad (to humans) but twice as strong as whiskey. Let's see, whiskey available in liquor stores today is 80 proof (40% alcohol). That means Blood Wine is 160 proof (80% alcohol). Everclear is 190 proof (95% alcohol), and the maximum you can concentrate ethanol (drinkable alcohol) is 97.5%. To get more concentrated than that requires adding something to displace the water, and that something is always toxic. But 80% alcohol is definitely possible.

So the next question: "What is it?" Yeast "eats" sugar and produces alcohol. In fact, to make beer there are several steps to break up starch in grain to make sugar: sprout, roast, boil. That boiling step dissolves oil from hops, but it also helps break up starch. There isn't much sugar in blood, so why is it called "Blood Wine?" Is it something else used to make wine? To make cheese, you add rennet to milk. That's an enzyme from the 4th stomach of calves, an enzyme to digest milk. This enzyme causes milk to curdle, separating curds from whey. Is it possible Klingons use something from an animal to make wine? Do they also start with grain, but instead break up that starch with an animal something? The pancreas of mammals produces an enzyme called amylase to break starch into malt. One show depicted a Klingon ship with a pair of dog-like animals with bad teeth called a "targ", kept in a room off the kitchen. The implication was they were for meat. So is Blood Wine a type of beer (distilled = whiskey), made with amylase taken from the pancreas of a targ? Pepsin is also produced by the pancreas; it breaks protein into amino acids. To make rennet for cheese the stomach is cleaned, salted, dried, cut into small pieces, and soaked in cold water. Doing the same with a pancreas would release all its enzymes.

Or is Blood Wine just a beverage with a red colour? Red currants grow wild where I live; they're a berry with sugar like any other. They're bright red and very tart! Is Blood Wine just red currant wine?

Posted Image

::Edit:: Found an image of the targs. There were 3, not just 2. And these look like boars (wild pigs), not dogs.

Posted Image

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Is Blood Wine just red current wine?

not where i come from...
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