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Euphoric

Research as indication of progress

18 posts in this topic

Right now, the indicator of progress is what metals and alloys you have available. But this can be problematic if you start broaden the gameplay and add new features. I believe there should be much more generic way to allow and measure you progress.

So to create item/alloy you would need to research it first. This would make you progress through "ages" which would open new possibilities and better ways to do things. You could also progress quite far without any need for (advanced) metals.

Thaumacraft and "Dont Starve!" (different game) have similar mechanics.

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You should tell yourself how far you've gotten, not the game. In this case, why don't we decide how nice our houses look by coming up with a formula?

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i think i am going in a completly diffrent direction with this but why are you suddenly able to make steel or iron at the first try ?

sure you have to work the metal right, but thats not why you put the right amount of the right metals at the right temprature together etc

that is not why all your bricks magicly hold together, thats not why you suddenly are able to make saws etc

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i think i am going in a completly diffrent direction with this but why are you suddenly able to make steel or iron at the first try ?

sure you have to work the metal right, but thats not why you put the right amount of the right metals at the right temprature together etc

that is not why all your bricks magicly hold together, thats not why you suddenly are able to make saws etc

I personally think that they should have two things change. The first one is to change the temps for metals and treat them like the uses of tools. The second is weird. Instead of plans, you have a picture of the ingot and have to hammer it into the shape of the tool, and there's a done button that you press to finish tool making. The more like the tool head the shape looks, the more durability it has. These would make a trial and error approach to smithing and metallurgy not seen before
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I think that rather than adding a background research mechanic, just updating the smithing process to be more both more advanced (more buttons and requirements, for instanced) and more randomized (like the way cooked meals are randomized based on the seed). Having to spend some time (and hammers) experimenting and reheating the metal in order to get the desired result would be a better mechanic than a research one; I'm also more in favor of player skill/knowledge over character skill/knowledge.

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I think that rather than adding a background research mechanic, just updating the smithing process to be more both more advanced (more buttons and requirements, for instanced) and more randomized (like the way cooked meals are randomized based on the seed). Having to spend some time (and hammers) experimenting and reheating the metal in order to get the desired result would be a better mechanic than a research one; I'm also more in favor of player skill/knowledge over character skill/knowledge.

They are randomized.

Also, the amount the the little indicator thing moves by could be affected slightly by how long you hold down the button. That would make indefinitely working recipes harder, you actually need to be good.

Also, no "Done" button. No.

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I'm going to step in here, research in this sense (like TC) takes away from a fundamental TFC idea that being game immersion. Now Steve is researching rather than us researching, or testing or discovering, and then we would have take even more steps towards RPG which if you have around these forums at all, is a badness.

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already suggersted, by yours truly,

not goinna happen

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Bricks can hold they're self together , beacuse of the amount of pressure created by they're weight.

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until a nice gust of wind or a arm hits the wall and it topples over -_-

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Dunk has stated that mortar for bricks is going to be added in the very near future. Like, the next few updates.

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They are randomized.

Also, the amount the the little indicator thing moves by could be affected slightly by how long you hold down the button. That would make indefinitely working recipes harder, you actually need to be good.

Also, no "Done" button. No.

what do you have against a done button? It is a good idea in context. How else would you say when a tool is finished by my idea?
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Also, the amount the the little indicator thing moves by could be affected slightly by how long you hold down the button. That would make indefinitely working recipes harder, you actually need to be good.

So, when the game or server or OS lags, or if one doesn't have a very good mouse, no matter how good or bad he is, cursor movement will be unpredictable.
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So, when the game or server or OS lags, or if one doesn't have a very good mouse, no matter how good or bad he is, cursor movement will be unpredictable.

That is why I said slightly. No more than a pixel. Of course, that could be a problem.

Also, with the done button, if there is a done button, it is impossible to not get a perfect tool if that is what you want.

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*dusts off his crampons and weighted backpack*

I love thaumcraft. I really do - it's one of my favorite mods, and I can't wait to start my magicraft LP back up so I can play it again.

But do you know why it's not in TFC? For the same reason molten lead isn't in fucking baby food.

Doesn't mean lead is useless, quite the contrary - but in Thaumcraft, you are a STUDENT of the ars arcana. A pioneer of magic - you need a concrete way of showing you've discovered things, and the discovery gives you that yeahimawizard.jpg feeling.

TFC is a scrabbling bare-bones roots of humanity life sim. You are not an archmage unlocking the secrets of the universe, you're a farmer trying to figure out why his carrots won't grow. Farmers don't hold scrolls of paper reading "You've discovered: Bronze!" over their head like Link finding the fucking compass.

It has to fit the core aesthetics - I REALLY wish people would think of these things first before going 'Ooh that sounds neato!! *type*'

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I'm with Eternal on this. Research really fits in well in some mods, but TFC limits your capabilities through material accessibility, not knowledge accessibility (You can know everything about crafting Bluesteel, but a damned lot of good it will do you when all you've got is a javalin, a loincloth, and your masculine pride.)

In Thaumcraft you are unraveling the mysteries of the eldrich and arcane. That isn't the kind of shit you learn on the Discovery channel, and it totally makes sense that Steve can't pull a Thaumic Condenser out of his ass without a bit of research first. In TFC however, any idiot who finds a tomato knows how to stick a seed in the ground; it isn't rocket science ( or mystic science, for that matter ).

Now granted, if TFC included the kind of steam-power systems that have been at least casually suggested for TFC2, then research may have more of a place, but in normal TFC there really isn't any reason to include such a system, or at least not in my opinion :)

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I prefer that research is something you do, not some variable in the game. Research is putting stuff together to find out if it works. It is in your head, not in your computer. You want to know if you can grow a tomato underground? Well, you don't find a ruin, and read a piece of paper, and suddenly they can be grown underground, you go underground and you try it. Now you know if it is possible.

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Exactly. Research fits in games where:

A) there is no otherwise limiting factor from endgame resources.

B) the game is not immersive.

In Civilization V, for example, if you could build Giant Death Robots from the get-go, wouldn't you?

TerraFirmaCraft has a natural limitation: You're not going to have any blue steel until you already are an accomplished miner and smith, we don't need an additional limiting mechanice. Also, research implies you're actually learning anything, unlike Thaumcraft 3 (despite being a VAST improvement on Thaumcraft 2) where once you know the right aspects it's basically luck and resources.

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