Bridge to Terrafirma Craft

[MagusUnion 12]

Greetings. I apologize if this is the wrong thread for this. Feel free to move it.

I'm currently at a crossroads with working on an IC2 add-on involving chemicals. Now, the only thing non-chemical about what I'm working on are the machines, which are dependent on the IC2 E-Net. I noticed that, for whatever feature reason it may be, Wrought Iron could not be used in IC2 crafting recipes (specifically, the Iron Furnace). Made me a bit sad panda, as I was trying to play with both mods together.

My questions are as follows:

1. Are the metals in this mod fully registered in the ore dictionary?

2. If they are, are the rock species (like Granite, Dolomite, etc.) registered under their respective material names?

What I would like to try and do, is have a compatibility layer between this mod and IC2 + my respective add-on. What I'm doing with Chemical Engineering is assigning chemical species in common Minecraft materials, so that they can be further refined and processed in more commercialized means (at one point, I would like to have the option to chemically engineer dyes and "potions" via organic chemistry). I'd like to include some compatibility with this mod as well, as it has an excellent pre-existing library of geological minerals. I was thinking about having the minerals compartmentalized into their unbounded compounds, so that the rocks themselves could serve as vital, strategic resources in which would have far-stretching industrial applications...

Anyway, was just wondering about ore dictionary registers, and recipe interfaces. Feel free to comment on the idea, as well, as I'm still refining it. I hope to push a working .jar soon, but I'm trying to wait till IC2 is more stable in 1.5.1 builds. Right now, it's not handling the texture changes very well, lol...

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

compatibility with IC2. LOL. Good luck.

[Bioxx 796]

To clarify, no we do not currently use the ore dictionary. Forge changed its implementation a long time back and I chose not to re-implement it at the time.

[dunkleosteus 2,425]

To clarify, no we do not currently use the ore dictionary. Forge changed its implementation a long time back and I chose not to re-implement it at the time.

Why does bioxx have to come in and act professional? (Like a proper dev >_>)

[killster550 401]

because he's a magically floating letter and not just some prehistoric armored fish...

Hackett out

[Dijayus 8]

Greetings. I apologize if this is the wrong thread for this. Feel free to move it.

I'm currently at a crossroads with working on an IC2 add-on involving chemicals. Now, the only thing non-chemical about what I'm working on are the machines, which are dependent on the IC2 E-Net. I noticed that, for whatever feature reason it may be, Wrought Iron could not be used in IC2 crafting recipes (specifically, the Iron Furnace). Made me a bit sad panda, as I was trying to play with both mods together.

My questions are as follows:

1. Are the metals in this mod fully registered in the ore dictionary?

2. If they are, are the rock species (like Granite, Dolomite, etc.) registered under their respective material names?

What I would like to try and do, is have a compatibility layer between this mod and IC2 + my respective add-on. What I'm doing with Chemical Engineering is assigning chemical species in common Minecraft materials, so that they can be further refined and processed in more commercialized means (at one point, I would like to have the option to chemically engineer dyes and "potions" via organic chemistry). I'd like to include some compatibility with this mod as well, as it has an excellent pre-existing library of geological minerals. I was thinking about having the minerals compartmentalized into their unbounded compounds, so that the rocks themselves could serve as vital, strategic resources in which would have far-stretching industrial applications...

Anyway, was just wondering about ore dictionary registers, and recipe interfaces. Feel free to comment on the idea, as well, as I'm still refining it. I hope to push a working .jar soon, but I'm trying to wait till IC2 is more stable in 1.5.1 builds. Right now, it's not handling the texture changes very well, lol...

There is an option in the config file to get vanilla iron ingots from tfc iron.

I think the idea of a specific TFC/IC2 crossover mod is great. There are workarounds some of us have found using Custom NPCs and CubeX's Custom Stuff mod, but they're not very elegant solutions. I've often thought it would be awesome if there were a mod similar to the MineChem mod that let you use all of TFC's minerals to create components to other mods. For example, a way to create synthetic rubber that is used in IC2's recipes.

[MagusUnion 12]

To clarify, no we do not currently use the ore dictionary. Forge changed its implementation a long time back and I chose not to re-implement it at the time.

Well, in that case, are you at least open to the idea, in regards to recipes that are dependent on TFC items, and can serve as a gameplay gateway between mods? I REALLY DON'T want to reinvent the wheel on geographic, geology based world generation. Especially, since you've done such an awesome and accurate job at portraying proper mineralogical features in Minecraft, and have excellent mechanics to tie that relevance to tech progression. I know it'll be hard work to configure around, but I feel that this avenue can serve many unique, possibly educational, uses.

I've often thought it would be awesome if there were a mod similar to the MineChem mod that let you use all of TFC's minerals to create components to other mods. For example, a way to create synthetic rubber that is used in IC2's recipes.

Yup. I really don't like Greg's version of chemical species. However, I'm still a prisoner to circumstance in some resources of that regard. Synthetic rubber is on the "to-do" list, but it may not be in the first release version. TFC is a great environment to do this with, and it would mean that users won't have to damage their worlds with "my" world gen, if I were to do one on my own for geological resource applications. I figure not everyone will want to adjust to the TFC style of play, though. But at the same time, I don't want to punish them for not doing so with sweeping world changes...

Bit of a warning: if I haven't released something before May, then the mod isn't happening...

[Aridhol 41]

Whew. Well sir, I should like to inform you that 3 dev posts in quick succession means trouble, usually

And there are some loyal fanboys of TFC's "Medieval" feeling that will really, really dislike your idea... What I have to say to them is: It's NOT going to become apart of the game natively, by ANY means, so why would you be upset? There, that is my pre-rant rant, I kept it short and sweet... To the topic!

I for one have always been where you are in interests, TFC's worldgen and ores and the way things play out are SO very far better than Vanilla, and even Vanilla-ish mods cannot do enough to make minecraft realistic and fun. This is why I play a lot of TFC. I admin a server for it, but more than adminning I just love to play. On our server, we like the idea of crossover to other mods, and we use Custom NPC's to facilitate compatibility. What we do not like, however, is anything that makes the game 'easy'. We hate it in fact, so much, that we often theorize about ways to make TFC harder! Like messing with Oregen, adding more dynamic mobs, changing weapons around, etc. So when you offer the idea of a compatibility layer between IC2, your mod, and TFC, some of us will see that as an 'easy' button, but I do not think it has to be that way... I'd have to hear your stance on that to know!

What we are very much interested in, when it comes to compatibility, is adding to the endgame of TFC. Currently, it is very fun to painstakingly work your way up to the highest tier of metals, build an elaborate castle, and rule your little Kingdom of your own making. Once you've done this, however, the game offers very little. Welcome to Minecraft in general, right? Wrong. This is the very thing that makes Minecraft great, mods! Add a new mod, give yourself a new challenge! And the fun begins again! This is a very good thing. This is what many players LOVE about this game.

The obvious problem? Terrafirmacraft has very few major content mods that work without a lot of effort, which ends up turning people off to the idea. Which in turn, leads to people leaving TFC for a few months to play other mods for awhile, only to return when TFC offers new content by way of updates. What a shame!

I love TFC, and I don't wanna see players leave for 'tech' mods, what I'd love to see is them to ADD tech mods to their game, like they can with regular minecraft, and the fun can begin again... If you can offer a way to crossover to IC2 and your mod (maybe add a side-mod that adds TFC recipes? Or just integrate it, up to you..) then you will be doing us a great service, regardless of what some people think.

TL;DR! Compatibility is good! If you don't like it, then don't download the compatible mods! But if you do, then there's more possibilities for your game!

[Ardent 21]

The beauty of TFC is where it starts: the beginning of technology. Assuming that development never stops, there may never be any official "endgame." The best part about starting at the beginning is that you have so much history to rely on and there are many advancements that can be implimented. Unfortunately for those who wish for a more modern TFC than is currently available, tech mods operate on a much lower level of complexity than TFC (3 copper ingots lined up magically becomes copper wire?) and TFC has an inescapable focus on collecting and processing very base materials (one of my favorite parts) which hasn't reached the threshold to produce usable components for a modern world. Bummer.

My proposal? Make add-on mods tailored to TFC. Right now these guys are busy with fine-tuning what they've got and fleshing out the technology level that they're already at, and probably won't announce a climb up the technological ladder for quite some time. If you really want a higher limit on TFC, make your own - or encourage someone else to. Much of the MC modding community is driven by positive feedback and suggestions (and the occasional donation) and you might be able to convince someone to help out if you make an earnest attempt to develop an idea yourself. Spend lots of time on it; even if you don't know how to code, hours of research and concept design are juicy targets for those who do (and also share your interests).

...or just use custom NPCs...

[MagusUnion 12]

I like the "pre-rant" that you did. Quite funny. In order to keep civil, the only thing I'll say in that regard is that I'm going to focus on my target audience. For those who don't like the concept, which they have every right to dislike, they have the option of not downloading additional mods outside of TFC.

I for one have always been where you are in interests, TFC's worldgen and ores and the way things play out are SO very far better than Vanilla, and even Vanilla-ish mods cannot do enough to make minecraft realistic and fun. This is why I play a lot of TFC. I admin a server for it, but more than adminning I just love to play. On our server, we like the idea of crossover to other mods, and we use Custom NPC's to facilitate compatibility. What we do not like, however, is anything that makes the game 'easy'. We hate it in fact, so much, that we often theorize about ways to make TFC harder! Like messing with ore gen, adding more dynamic mobs, changing weapons around, etc. So when you offer the idea of a compatibility layer between IC2, your mod, and TFC, some of us will see that as an 'easy' button, but I do not think it has to be that way... I'd have to hear your stance on that to know!

Excellent points! I will have to say that it won't be GregTech level of difficulty, because I find he makes things expensive and costly to keep up the repetitive grind. But I can understand how IC2 would seem 'very easy' in comparison to TFC. There may be a bit of that in-game, but I would like to adjust that factor according to what level of technology you acquire. For example: if you can support an energy grid and facilitate power distribution, I don't see any reason to neglect power tools and equipment. But using something like a quasi-infinite electric pickaxe/shovel can appear very game breaking to something like TFC. For the most part, ALL of the IC2 materials will probably be gated until you can acquire at least Iron level metallurgy. And even then, the amount of Iron that you will have to feed into machinery will be quite expensive if you try and 'rush' to it in your respective tech.

On that note, most of the machines will get internal recipe rewrites (well, compatible additions, actually). And as much as I like IC2 for this feature, the Macerator will NOT double ore output. Rather, it'll be a machine that refines dense materials into pulverized, processed products (i.e., Bones to Bonemeal, Sugercane to Sugar, Rocks to Sands, etc.). I don't think there is a clear cut way for me to allow that feature, and I'd rather just drop it entirely. Also, the Electric furnace will only be able to auto-smelt 'light' metals (metals under a certain heat threshold, specifically), and most foods. Think of it as the equivalent of an electric oven. It won't supersede forges, as it'll have a set Temperature output based on the default accepting "voltage" (Which is EU/p, in IC2's case). I have yet to decide if I'll do my own blast forge for dense materials, or if I'll just write compatibility layers with Gregtech and Railcraft via their respective API's. Don't know what I'm going to do about Compressors making Sand into Sandstone, or Water into Ice. Extractor is very material specific, and I don't think it'll need much (if any) adjustments. If those two machines aren't a big deal to players, I'll let them be.

There are some critical bugs with how the Chainsaw doesn't work with Trees, and Drills to Dirt. Apparently, the Saws/Drills aren't registered as axes/shovels properly somewhere. I'll try and attempt to fix that. Crafting electric tools will probably require High Carbon Steel (of any color) For the Drill, specifically, it can only mine up to metamorphic rock before needing to be upgraded to it's diamond version. This way, you get a "reward" for branching into more complex forms of tech without obsoleting the previous tiers too quickly. It'll also help stress the importance of electricity, as it'll be your 'durability replacement' for "tool work" (A staple feature ever since IC's inception).

The other feature that I will do, that in some cases you can have stone-aged access to, is the Lab Table. It'll be a crafting table with grid like inputs-outputs, that can help "mix" chemicals together to create new byproducts. Like mixing Calcite (Marble) with acid, you'll be able to peel off element speices via various degrees. For non-TFC players, all vanilla stone will be classified as Feldspar, and handled as such. With TFC, all of the mineral ores will be given their chemical attributes in accordance to geological makeup. In some cases, you can extract chemicals via "precipitation" with the proper acid/base mixings (this mostly applies to sedimentary rock). In many of other cases, you'll have to wait for a "Mass Electrolysis Machine" (needs power; can handle up to 128 EU/p) to violently sever the bonds in harden rock in order to get to their individual compounds. This way, some of the materials have a more fluid dynamic to their usage, and can be re-applied in many applications. For example, Diorite contains various pyroxene and plagioclase minerals, as well as zircon, apatite, and sulfides. These materials could be electrolytic separated, or split. When those products are later concentrated in a large magnitude, other compounds like sodium, calcium, aluminum, and iron can be forcibly extracted out of those simpler mineral species and applied in their respective applications. Thus Diorate, which was once used to make simple primitive tools, can become an advance resource to collect various commercialized elements in simplified forms.

Again, no promises, but this is something I hope to accomplish Soon^™.

[Aridhol 41]

There's some very interesting thoughts you have on this that I am very interested in talking about hehe. I'll have to PM you

I will post a better response in here tomorrow... very sleepy at the moment.. barely have my eyes awake lol

[Bioxx 796]

I will say that if you plan to attempt this, which your recent PM to me suggest that you are , Try to find a way to make sure that simply acquiring iron or steel in TFC isn't enough to suddenly discover electricity for IC2 etc. Some sort of intermediate step before mass production in furnaces. Anyways, that's my 2 cents. TFC was designed with all the ores that it has etc expressly for future use by other modders. If it handles nearly every possible ore that you'd need then you have no need to worry about multiple mods adding the same ore Anyways, I'll work on the API in the next few major patches to facilitate this process and open TFC for modders.

[Aridhol 41]

I will say that if you plan to attempt this, which your recent PM to me suggest that you are , Try to find a way to make sure that simply acquiring iron or steel in TFC isn't enough to suddenly discover electricity for IC2 etc. Some sort of intermediate step before mass production in furnaces. Anyways, that's my 2 cents. TFC was designed with all the ores that it has etc expressly for future use by other modders. If it handles nearly every possible ore that you'd need then you have no need to worry about multiple mods adding the same ore Anyways, I'll work on the API in the next few major patches to facilitate this process and open TFC for modders.

Now we're talking!

I am all about this line of thinking... TFC isn't the perfect 'medieval' mod, its the perfect Pre-Technology mod, it makes early game REALLY interesting, better than any other mod I've played, but all the ores and metals and such don't have very far to go beyond just armor... Technology is the next step, and I personally completely agree with you about having some kind of precursor steps into technology, as it makes little sense to discover a vein of copper and magically understand how to make wire with it and electricity... HOW this should be done? I've got too many ideas on that, and not all of them coincide with each other lol. Personally I'm not a huge fan of IC2, a lot of it is terribly awesome, but a lot of it isn't my style at all...

With the idea of a crossover mod... Truth is, the only thing that makes sense is, as you said already, redesigning the purpose/functionality of the machines to match the way that TFC works... But the problem with this is... At that point, you've pretty much made an entirely different mod lol

What I would like to see... A mod collaboration by a few good modders/artists to make a new mod that bridges TFC to other vanilla mods, adding technology and using it similarly to how IC2/UE/BC/etc do and maybe even some crossover power compatibility, but your base TFC-addon essentially would be the primary tech mod, and with that you'd have the freedom to balance it to TFC properly instead of having to worry about the aforementioned mods balancing with TFC (since they are NOT designed to, natively).

Just my thoughts. I happen to know a few good modders, and with the blessing of Bioxx and a little help, we might actually get this thing going...

[MagusUnion 12]

I will say that if you plan to attempt this, which your recent PM to me suggest that you are , Try to find a way to make sure that simply acquiring iron or steel in TFC isn't enough to suddenly discover electricity for IC2 etc. Some sort of intermediate step before mass production in furnaces. Anyways, that's my 2 cents. TFC was designed with all the ores that it has etc expressly for future use by other modders. If it handles nearly every possible ore that you'd need then you have no need to worry about multiple mods adding the same ore Anyways, I'll work on the API in the next few major patches to facilitate this process and open TFC for modders.

Well, I do agree wholeheartedly. There are at least 4 (if you do not count Iron, lol) gated resources in IC2 specifically...

Rubber, Copper, Tin, and Redstone

Rubber will have to work somehow within the restrictions of certain TFC trees. Resin will have to be tapped, and will work with a reduced chance. I may have to create a new tool, like a draw table, that is used when converting copper to wire. Not sure about other changes off the top of my head, thought. Maybe I'll think of some as I continue in my current TFC world.

Edit: Quick Geo note: since Magnetite is in TFC, and 'Lodestone' was an important material in early compasses, I may base some 'electric' knowledge off that material. Since understanding the properties of this rare form of magnetite was the basis in our understanding in magnetism, I may just work off that as a platform to understand electricity and energy via its inherent properties.

I will say, though, that I at least want to bring in some resource interchangeability back into TFC, but it the restricted sense. Not something that acts 100% like the Forge Dictionary, however, but something that bears similar to the act of BEING able to acquire something enables other mods to use that resource for their basic stuff. Gateway resources, in a way. I agree that, in various cases, just grabbing a few blocks and suddenly pulling a complex machine from a crafting table is a bit of an immersion breaker. However, I don't intend to redesign EVERY mod out there, just so it'll comply with TFC's "rules". But then again, I do think that in the preservation of TFC mechanics, some stop gaps do need to be adopted.

If anything, I'll try and see if I can add integration at the latest possible point in TFC's game. If I have to add some 'scientific enablers', I'll try to do so. I'll know more on what needs to be added in the hopefully-soon future.

[Coragamy 2]

I would find this amazing if it was properly balanced. I'm sorry this is a short post but i'm not really an essay kind of person.

[MagusUnion 12]

if it was properly balanced

Well, let me go ahead and say that balance can lean both ways in that regard.

Before this gets too over-hyped (probably too late now, lol), let me explain some things before I set your expectations too high.

1. I'm not redesigning IC2. It's closed source, so I'm not allowed to do that anyway. I can micro-adjust the recipes and such, so that it complies better with TFC's 'rules'. But don't expect a severe rewrite beyond recipe/item interaction. Sounds disappointing, I know, but if you think about all the things GregTech changes, it can go a long way to alter the end users experience.

2. IC2 was simply an example mod in this case. I'm actually going to be mapping out items and helping write an API that translates TFC items into usable items for the ore dictionary. At the same time, there will be inhibitors and 'tech requirements' attached to it. Again, it's not a 2nd ore dictionary, but an interface that both TFC and other mods can use in which to exchange items from. In a sense, its to find "bridging points" between one mod to the next. No, it does not make much sense to start spitting out Forestry Fermenters (which only require Glass, Sticks, Stone, and Bronze) when you are still living in a wooden hut. However, I personally think that if you have the affinity to understand how mechanics work, and the resources to apply them, then you should be able to discover new forms of technology. Like learning how to create the wheel before creating the wagon, you need knowledge of one application to lead to the next. And thankfully, all the "major" mods out their have open source API's to work with. So that helps alleviate some of the frustration with interaction.

3. In regards to balance, that is something that is going to be configured and adjusted over time. I'd like, if possible, to add config. options to major interactions between TFC and other mods. This is because everyone plays Minecraft differently, and will want to experience certain features on certain levels. Because of this, it's not going to be a 'balancing' mod. Rather, it'll be a customization interface to work from, so that when you use a certain tech (be it Steam, Combustion, etc), you can decide the curve at which you or server players must climb in which to 'unlock' those features. This will definitively be a work-in-progress post-release, and useful feedback on said feature will be welcomed...

Again, no promises. Can't seem to emphasis that enough, lol. I'm a much better scientist than a programmer, but I'm getting better with working with Java code. I can say that once I have a stable release of IC2 Chemical Engineering add-on, I will dedicate my coding time to this project. About 50% done (I think?) with that, at least.

[Treyflix 277]

I love terrafirmacraft, but this would bring TFC to a whole new level! I will follow this with interest.

[MetalBiM 0]

Try to find a way to make sure that simply acquiring iron or steel in TFC isn't enough to suddenly discover electricity for IC2 etc. Some sort of intermediate step before mass production in furnaces.

I would agree. Any mods attempting to add electricity to TFC would require quite a lot of research on the discovery of electricity and how it slowly became usable as a power source. Personally, I would like to see an add-on that does include the progress of automation, from old steam powered machines, up to electricity; all this technology curve would presumably happen after the player has progressed a long way into TFC.

 

I'm not asking for anyone to make such a mod, it's just, I wouldn't used IC2 and TFC for this reason.

[Euphoric 48]

There is steam power planned to TFC really soon. Maybe even in 79. There already are some kind of pipes, but you cannot craft them.

[darthvader45 4]

Yeah, I noticed pipes in build 78.13 and 14.