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fofi9753

A few suggestions on Stone Age Weapons

27 posts in this topic

Well, first off, I spent some time the other day thinking about TFC's stone age, and the stone age in real life. My thoughts were mainly concerning weapons, because, well, hunting was one of the main sources of food in the very beginning.

I suggest a new early weapon instead of the javelin (not removing the javelin from the game, just making it more practical to use later on) because well, I doubt the first cavemen were born with the knowledge of how to make and balance a spear or javelin, much less how to throw it accurately and make it hit point first. Besides clubs and rocks as meelee weapons I imagine the first ranged weapon was a rock hurled at some small bird or creature. I think this would fit in well with the whole combat revamp thing, since I think javelins are way too precise, cheap, and easy to throw in the early game. If there were some sort of skill level in throwable weapons such as the javelin, making it imprecise and deviating when you first start using one (I have thrown professional javelins IRL and believe me, its not as easy as just grabbing it anywhere and throwing it in front of you, it takes quite a bit of skill to be accurate and get far range without your spear doing a 180 degree flip and hitting the ground or target with the hind end), so I suggest the rock as an earlier, more primitive, and easy to use weapon. It also would fit in nicely with the change made with rocks in that they are no longer placeable as cobblestone and cobblestone must be crafted, so that rocks could be thrown with right click (this does, however conflict with the ability to knap stones via right click, a change that I didn't see too necessary).

As for the whole skill thing, maybe certain weapons would be harder to use than others, for example, if we give a certain amount of skill a number (just as an example, not saying skills should be number based), a level 1 rock hurler will be more accurate with it than a level 1 javelin thrower, although the javelin, if it did land a hit, would damage way more than the stone. Also, at least with the javelin, it should be that the higher your level is the farther you could throw (accurately).

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I don't really like the idea of "levelling up", to gain experience at throwing the projectile. I think it would be better to have the javelin 'sway' in the player's hand, and have them have to release at the right time for the best results. This way, the way the player gains experience at throwing is by actually practising with the system, rather than gaining points.

This is how smithing is, and how I feel all things that require "skill" should work within TerraFirmaCraft.

I really love the idea of a throwable rock; I was surprised when it couldn't be done when I first started playing. (which was just before the addition of knapping with a right click)

I like your ideas in general, but I feel that throwing the javelin accurately should be based on the actual player's skill (just like smithing) than a rank.

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I don't really like the idea of "levelling up", to gain experience at throwing the projectile. I think it would be better to have the javelin 'sway' in the player's hand, and have them have to release at the right time for the best results. This way, the way the player gains experience at throwing is by actually practising with the system, rather than gaining points.

This is how smithing is, and how I feel all things that require "skill" should work within TerraFirmaCraft.

I really love the idea of a throwable rock; I was surprised when it couldn't be done when I first started playing. (which was just before the addition of knapping with a right click)

I like your ideas in general, but I feel that throwing the javelin accurately should be based on the actual player's skill (just like smithing) than a rank.

Now that you mention it, that idea of it being hard and requiring actual skill to throw is a pretty good idea, but the main point of my post is how you should be able to throw rocks and they should be easier to throw than javelins.
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A slingshot or atlatl would make sense as a stone-age weapon.

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A slingshot or atlatl would make sense as a stone-age weapon.

I also thought of that, but thought it would be a much larger and hard to implement feature than just right-clicking to throw rocks, similarly to how it works with eggs and snowballs
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Perhaps as compromise for a "leveling up" sort of system is that as you use javelins the aim gets a little less shaky. In other words when you first use a javelin the your aim wavers quite a lot and the likelihood of being completely off target for distant targets is high, unless the user is extremely skilled. However as you use javelins more, this "shakyness" gets lesser thereby enabling even a mediocre user to be able to hit targets at moderate distances. The shakiness will never go away however, so therefore it will always require a certain amount of skill to hit targets. This just means that the process becomes less annoying for those who choose to specialize in using javelins. This same principle could, of course be applied to any weapon (even hand weapons).

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I like the idea of throwing the rocks I pick up.

Would I be able to collect them and throw them again, or would they be lost with one throw?

Also, I absolutely love the "swaying". This would make hunting so fun with the javelin.

I would hope that when/if more thrown weapons are added like allowing the knives to be thrown they would also have this same, swaying effect.

Last thought, I wonder if it would be cool if the shakyness was based on your health, so if you were in combat and badly wounded, throwing steadily would be nearly impossible.

But as an opposite, throwing an item with completely full health is not easy, but, manageable. This would avoid a "skill" system

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There should be a compromise , i mean if you can throw rocks , whats stopping you to kill a knight in all steel armor ? Maybe throwing rocks could deminish you're hunger bar ? And the game would keep tabs on how many rocks you have thrown in that period of time and give you slownes or something ?

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Actually, hand thrown rocks shouldn't do much armor piercing damage, meaning throwing a rock at someone in plate armor would be basically useless. I meant for the rock to be a more precise and easy early game weapon, but not necessarily the best weapon. A rock thrown at the head will break a skull, but a helmet will pretty render useless the stone(not that stones should damage as much as if they had crushed a skull).

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Boomerangs are very old - and while not as dangerous as a arrow shot from a bow - could be used against smaller prey items - if for example chipmunks and rabbits ever make it into TFC. No singing chipmunks please...

Would a chipmunk give you a nugget of meat? :P

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Would a rock do as much damage as a spear or arrow is the main question.

If it took 10 rocks to kill a pig that would make it something people would just skip doing.

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Would a rock do as much damage as a spear or arrow is the main question.

If it took 10 rocks to kill a pig that would make it something people would just skip doing.

It might not do as much damage, but its way easier to get and use, you wouldn't have as much shakiness as with a javelin early on in the game.
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It might not do as much damage, but its way easier to get and use, you wouldn't have as much shakiness as with a javelin early on in the game.

If they institute javelin shakiness, they need to also consider not everyone born is an dead on accurate MLB pro as well, also range is a factor as most people can only throw even remotely accurately at around 10 feet.

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If they institute javelin shakiness, they need to also consider not everyone born is an dead on accurate MLB pro as well, also range is a factor as most people can only throw even remotely accurately at around 10 feet.

maybe the swaying could vary with the difficulty? (peaceful, easy, normal, hard)
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if you spend your life hunting and gathering even the worst thrower will have a much better aim and heft than our sad sack softie life grants us. Speedballs thrown barehanded aren't the name of the game accuracy with a sling would be a better idea for hunting. I.E. thrown rocks will hurt but slings should be there and add damage.

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If we add slings stone we add metal pellets? Thrown rocks can hurt and rocks launched by a sling can kill or wound, but a metal bullet or pellet launched by a slinger who has some skill should be a one kill shot if lucky.

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I like the idea of slings but with a different twist. We would need ropes that would be made with cactus fibers or with the lack of that we could use vines but with a lower durability. Perhaps hammering a cactus and then using a spindle to loosen the fibers, then with a normal recipe make a rope. Crafting a rope with the first stone would give that purpose and then afterwards it would consume stones that you already have in the inventory.

About the use of the weapon i think it would be wise that stone pellets only cause minor damage, almost nothing. Perhaps the only use would be to kill chickens.

That way the javelin could be a more advanced stone age weapon and even perhaps need a more complex recipe.

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Well as far as weapons go, I would suggest a large scale impact on the increase of ranged weapons implemented into TFC. Since bows and javelins are the only type of ranged weapons that we have so far. Perhas making a new metal type of bow with increased damage and accuracy would help expand this field as well. For the idea of a metal bow frame, it would help to add a new "Bow Plan". Which could be used to make different types of bow frames.

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..There already seems to be different damage types..slashing piercing blunt..so stones are the stone age blunt javlins are piercing and axes/knives are slashing

Then you get improved versions or variations once you have collected a few more specialized materials...horns, ores, string etc

 

Different damage types naturally kill different nasties better..

spiders with hard chitinous shells need piercing damage to be effective, rotting zombie flesh would not notice blunt or piercing damage but slashing can chop them into rotten flesh and skeletons have not flesh to pierce or slash so they must be clobbered/crushed with blunt..my thought had been this is why maces existed so once I made copper age in Earth3 I always carried both sword and mace with me.

 

There has been emphasis both on 'once you know how you can do it everywhere - ie Smithing, and 'anything you learn here is useless elsewhere' - ie cooking. I think perhaps both are needed. A player can gain knowledge of how to do something in one world and carry it with them, but Steve in world A is not Steve in world B. A skill count encourages one to use the skill to 'practice' which is how you gain skill points. This skill level is thus representative of a given players practice in a given world.

Some examples:

-a pvp player who goes off into single player and 'practices' then goes onto a MP server and rips everyone a new one even thought he has only been in that particular world  there 5 mins

-a hunter who has been purging every nasty in the hills around his communities base for several in-world years

Who shoudl be better at slaughterage be it player or mob?

Since 'skill' might be called a mix of knowledge and practice, you learn the mechanics, then practice in the given world to be awesome. Tying in how hurt you are to calculations with your skill level also helps increase believability since if I came and busted you up near your field/house (read log cabin/tree farm) you aren't going to run or throw things at me very well.

 

Taken to the Nth degree, one might also consider that changing variables such as the armour your (not)wearing and other buffs or weather might also modify how well you would do in any given situation even if you are all meta-knowledgable and practice-skilled in a given world.

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Hello,

 

Would a rock do as much damage as a spear or arrow is the main question.If it took 10 rocks to kill a pig that would make it something people would just skip doing.

 

It's my belief that it is the mobs that are flawed, not the weapons. Which makes hit boxes so important. Since, pretty much hitting anything hard enough in the right place will kill it or render it immobile/unconscious. If I have a club and get close enough to a pig, then I slam the club into it's head, I imagine it'd die. Likewise, if I slam a mace down on some guy's head, I imagine he would have a cracked skull or broken neck even if he wore an arming cap, chain coif, and a plate helmet.

 

It's my belief that it should be much easier to die, but also much easier to kill. Which gives humans the advantage because they can prepare for an encounter; but if caught unawares, they are likely to get roflpwnd by yogi bear when he-a-goes a lookin' for a pic-a-nic basket.

 

Cheers,

Michael

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I don't really like the idea of "levelling up", to gain experience at throwing the projectile. I think it would be better to have the javelin 'sway' in the player's hand, and have them have to release at the right time for the best results. This way, the way the player gains experience at throwing is by actually practising with the system, rather than gaining points.

---

I recently played a game on Armor Games call Storm assault (Or something like that). The meat of it was shooting arrows at people, but the catch was, the farther you pulled back your bow, the shakier the aim got. it makes sense, since its easier to throw something accurately and lightly than it is to throw a rock with enough force to kill something. So the player has to sacrifice power for accuracy. That could factor into the swaying. And if woodcarving is added, the more skill in making a nice balanced shaft, the easier it would be to aim the javelin

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What if atlatls were added to the game. It would not be that different to a bow, but it would use javelins as ammunition. Atlatls are an extremely primitive weapon use by our stone age ancestors all over the world. By using an atlatl in conjunction with a javelin you could dramatically increase the range, power, and accuracy of the primitive stone javelin. Even a novice can learn quickly how to use one, its not exactly a comply device. A metal tipped javelin would be used as specialist ammunition.  Maybe there could be special quivers for different types of ammo, javelin pouches, quivers for arrows, and the like? Say if a javelin pouch had eight spaces in it that could only be used for javelins, same for arrows, but they wouldn't be able to stack as much in your inventory. maybe in just stacks of eight. Maybe as you get better you can craft more complex types of javelins, say a pilum which was a much more deadly, armor piercing, version of the javelin with a soft shaft tip, that would bend on impact and slow the enemy should they somehow survive!

 

an atlatl - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlatl

 

a quiver - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quiver

 

a pilum - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pilum

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I agree with Kain, having a sort of skill by playing is much better than a point based skill system. And it would fit the theme of TFC skills already implemented such as smithing and pro picking.

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Impliment the degree of damage into hunger/thirst cost (same as stamina in many Triple A Game Companies) I've seen it done in a few bukkit plugins where you hold the weapon same animation like charging a bow full strength yet it depleted all of the player's stamina and induce a slow debuff for a short duration.

 

That will greatly enhance both the player's combat experience and solve some of the problem of doing zero damage until very late into the progression levels.

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I like the idea of rock trowing but i think it should only kill small animals.

I live in florida where we have lots of wild pigs and I would not try to kill one by trowing a rock.

One of the things  that i think is missing from the hunting experience is the sneaking and getting close to the prey.

Note that i am talking about hunting for food, especialy in early game.

Killing monsters is another issue all-together. Is a Monster it is supposed to be hard to kill.

As far as animals go if your rock hits a chicken or rabbit (one can dream} it should die with one hit.

If you hit a deer with a javelin it should die or have slowness so you can easily get close for a second fatal shot.

I like the idea of skill for using the javeling and all weapons but would add a way of having better weapons as you climb the technology latter. 

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