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Peffern

What are people's thoughts on enchanting?

Enchanting Options   30 members have voted

  1. 2. What kind of enchanting should TFC use?

    • The vanilla system (or a derivative)
      4
    • A random system like vanilla but implemented differently
      1
    • A totally new system (explain in post)
      4
    • Something involving gems
      14
    • TFC shouldn't have enchanting
      7

Please sign in or register to vote in this poll.

20 posts in this topic

This hasn't been discussed recently, but, what do people think about enchanting?

Vote and discuss!

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Maybe instead of an enchanting table(doesn't really fit TFC) there could be an item like a wetstone or a grinding wheel, on which you use your weapons, to replace, say, the sharpness enchantment. A sword would have sharpness and be sharp not because you magically gave it that quality, but because you actually sharpened it. The same would go for tools, but instead of sharpness (which could also be like efficiency if put on an axe) it could be replaced for efficiency. Chopping a log with a freshly sharpened axe is really not the same thing as one that has been used a few hours. Only metal tools could be ''enchanted''. A sharp knife would also do its job better and do more damage.

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I think that if TFC were to have any supernatural elements, it should be introduced through an add-on mod. There are many things that make me say "oh cool!" but I decline to approve of in the end because the realism of TFC is what I love the most. It would be rather fun to see things like enchanting or alchemy in TFC, but I would really prefer for there to be a separation between those things and the TFC mod itself.

As for magic itself, I think it should be low powered, mundane-ish, difficult to obtain, and integrated into the mechanics of TFC itself. Imagine a rare mineral that you need quite a bit of and is used in the making of another type of metal. Armor made from the metal is rather weak (because of the impurities of this mineral), but grants various mild benefits like improved mining speed etc.

Whatever happens in the field of magic, caution should be exercised to ensure that it stays in the spirit of TFC (difficult, rare, incremental, era-appropriate) and is balanced.

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new system: runic lore, based on a combination of gems and actual text inputted via our oh-so-familiar massive crafting grids :D

for example, placing a U form rune on boots could stand for hooves, which would boost your base speed a little bit.

(although i am more for passive effects determined by area instead of enchantment)

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I think that if TFC were to have any supernatural elements, it should be introduced through an add-on mod. There are many things that make me say "oh cool!" but I decline to approve of in the end because the realism of TFC is what I love the most. It would be rather fun to see things like enchanting or alchemy in TFC, but I would really prefer for there to be a separation between those things and the TFC mod itself.

As for magic itself, I think it should be low powered, mundane-ish, difficult to obtain, and integrated into the mechanics of TFC itself. Imagine a rare mineral that you need quite a bit of and is used in the making of another type of metal. Armor made from the metal is rather weak (because of the impurities of this mineral), but grants various mild benefits like improved mining speed etc.

Whatever happens in the field of magic, caution should be exercised to ensure that it stays in the spirit of TFC (difficult, rare, incremental, era-appropriate) and is balanced.

There are those who believe magic is very real. While these people don't run amok firing lightning bolts from their cereal bowls or fireballs from their eyeballs, the magic is more of a "behind the scenes"effect than anything, but they believe in it and they practice it. While it may be more of a mind over matter aspect to some individuals, there is, in reality, a realm beyond that which we can see or grasp. And regardless of how one would like to approach it, it is a reality.

To me, quantum physics is like magic. There is Wicca. There is Buddhism...

As far as magic not being "realistic"... the difference is the farmer calling the earth flat and the sailor saying its round. The farmer denies the existance as it is too fantastic a concept to grasp, and the sailor has discovered it, though grand and incredible it is.

I agree that enchanting and magic like in vanilla or thaumcraft is a bit too fantastic for tfc, stretching alchemy to a believable point, as well as spirituality (Shamanism/sorcery... not the Margaret Weiss & Tracy Hickman sorcery) is more up to speed in tfc... even so much as approaching magic in a scientific aspect.

Just my three cents...

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I don't like enchanting in TFC but not against something more along the lines of Shamanism or VooDoo - items to protect you from mobs or help you hunting/farming. A hit or miss system really.

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...

Just my three cents...

Anti-gravity technology is unrealistic. FTL travel is unrealistic. May it some time in the future be possible? Sure. Is it appropriate in this mod? Not really.

You're also (more or less) saying that because some people believe in something, it's automatically real. Some people don't have those beliefs - and if evidence isn't provided, their opinion is equally valid.

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because there haven't already been 50 threads for this...

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Anti-gravity technology is unrealistic. FTL travel is unrealistic. May it some time in the future be possible? Sure. Is it appropriate in this mod? Not really.

You're also (more or less) saying that because some people believe in something, it's automatically real. Some people don't have those beliefs - and if evidence isn't provided, their opinion is equally valid.

TL;DR (my opinion is just an opinion...)

Magic (Mirriam - Webster) -

1

a : the use of means (as charms or spells) "believed" to have supernatural power over natural forces

b : magic rites or incantations

2

a : an extraordinary power or influence "seemingly" from a supernatural source

b : something that "seems to" cast a spell : enchantment

3

: the art of producing "illusions" by sleight of hand

---

Faster than Wha?:

Space travel aside, as this is not a sci-fi game, I merely mentioned Quantum Physics in passing as it is as mysterious to me as magic. I suppose I should have clarified for those who may have misunderstood.

I'm not a Buddhist, nor a Wizard, but I do look at Algebra, Analytic Geometry, and Physics in a different light than those who know that stuff.

Further Clarification:

I wrote: "I agree that enchanting and magic like in vanilla or thaumcraft is a bit too fantastic for tfc..."

Sorta sounds like you agree... I think. You may not believe in MineCraft so that may not be real... :P.

I also wrote: "...stretching alchemy to a believable point, as well as spirituality (again stretching it to a believable point) (Shamanism/sorcery... not the Margaret Weiss & Tracy Hickman sorcery) is more up to speed in tfc... even so much as approaching magic in a scientific aspect."

I read the bible... You may or may not believe in all that stuff, but that is irrelevant to the point I would like to make. When it mentions in the bible the word Sorcery, cross-referenced to Strong's concordance, the Greek word for that is Pharmakeai. This is where we get our English word Pharmacy from, which is the dealing with aspects of, basically in layman's terms, drugs. While faerie tales, fantasy stories and the like may portray sorcerers as Conical Hat wearing spell casters manipulating lightning and fire with their bare hands (Think the Sorcerer's Apprentice (Walt Disney)), the term I was referring to in the sorcerous aspect is more along the lines of, well... drugs (or to yet again clarify, alchemy).

Witch Doctors, Shaman, Voodoo Priests, Medicine Men, etc... ALL used drugs of one sort or another. It altered one's perception of "reality" and allowed the individual working the "magic" to have his or her power. These Witch Doctors, Medicine Men, and the like didn't really have a place in the unemployment Line as it is apparent that their "Magic" worked.. or seemed to work. It worked so well in fact that they held VERY powerful positions in tribes and within their societies. People were healed, Spirit Journeys revealed Wisdom, people could fly! Yea.. they flew alright... But did the "magic" really work? Or was it, as I had noted, simply mind over matter.

Regardless, Alchemy has been hinted at by the Devs. This would be a great way to incorporate "magic" into TFC.

As EternalUndeath noted there have been many threads about this very topic, and there are quite a few people who are interested in seeing a "magic" feature in TFC. Incorporating it in a believable fashion is the hurdle and discussion at hand.

I am not saying because people believe in something it is automatically real. If I believed with all of my heart you could fly, I bet you would drop like a stone off a 30 foot ledge. But on the flip side, just because you don't believe in something doesn't mean it isn't real... I'm not talking about Santa Claus here!

If Magic in TFC is not for you then don't use it if it is implemented in the future.

You be the farmer, I'll be the sailor. ;)

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You be the farmer, I'll be the sailor. ;)

I've never dismissed conjecture simply because of a lack of evidence, but I also choose not to act on conjecture without evidence. If someone who dresses in overalls and carries a pitchfork tells me he's a sailor, then why would I take his word for it? I'll wait for evidence first.

The weak link between the English word pharmacy and the English word magic doesn't make pharmacy magic. You're making an argument for adding medicine to the game, not magic.

Can you provide any evidence of people flying after taking these drugs?

People who study algebra, analytic geometry, and physics don't claim that it is magic. They provide proofs to their claims, and make that knowledge available to everyone. Besides, not understanding something doesn't make it magic.

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The main complain about TFC it seems is there is nothing to do once you progress a certain point but progress up the metal tiers.

This is because TFC removes or disables nearly all the vanilla stuff that people occupy themselves with beyond that point.

My opinion: Put back enchanting, redstone, the nether and the end, EDIT: and potion-making etc, until TFC has some sort of substitute. When you have a new system ready that competes/clashes with vanilla features, then take it out.

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I've never dismissed conjecture simply because of a lack of evidence, but I also choose not to act on conjecture without evidence. If someone who dresses in overalls and carries a pitchfork tells me he's a sailor, then why would I take his word for it? I'll wait for evidence first.

The weak link between the English word pharmacy and the English word magic doesn't make pharmacy magic. You're making an argument for adding medicine to the game, not magic.

Can you provide any evidence of people flying after taking these drugs?

People who study algebra, analytic geometry, and physics don't claim that it is magic. They provide proofs to their claims, and make that knowledge available to everyone. Besides, not understanding something doesn't make it magic.

No one is telling you you have to believe in magic, man. Chill.

Beyond Chris Angel and David Blaine, I don't believe in magic either, but that doesn't mean there aren't those who do. Take David Blaine for instance. When he does his street magic in other countries (Haiti, Dominican Republic, etc...) the looks on the faces of these people are sometimes mixed with horror. Why do you think that is? Because to them it is real and nothing you or I can say can change that. Period.

also...

The weak link (Pharmekeai) I threw in there to explain my take on sorcery regarding TFC, a word (sorcery) that has been misconstrued to portray something, or label something paranormal and/or fantastic/magical. Mixing herbs together in a bottle and slamming it so you mine faster, jump higher, fart louder... k? Herbs/alchemy/medicinal drugs... sorta like what David Blaine sounds like he is on when he talks.

Let's not call it sorcery...

Alchemy could be used to make oils that enchant items, make enchanted items, or could utilize gem powder as potion reagents, etc... you know... make believe stuff... I am not saying you have to believe in enchanted items... just make believe...

This therefore was my thought on magic in the TFC Game.

And since we are in a Mod focusing on stone age, then maybe a Shamanistic/Sorcerous aspect on magic would actually fit if done correctly, since these thoughts were prevalent before modern eras of science and understanding.

An example of this could be a Ward (perhaps a Dream Catcher type object made of feathers, bones, gem powder, string, whatever...) which could have the effects of a Protection Meter. Just an example. No it doesn't exist...

You said: "Can you provide any evidence of people flying after taking these drugs?"

No, Sheldon, they weren't flying. They were stoned out of their fucking minds, thus the word "high" or "flying", but since they didn't understand the premise of what the narcotics were doing to their brain's chemical production, they more than likely believed the "Medicine Man" had a magical pull over them and the spirit world. Peyote for instance... as their pupils dilated, and light and shadow began to play a more intense roll on their visual senses, they began to see things. As someone who, shamefully, "partook heavily" in hallucinogenic illegal drugs in my younger years, I can understand how they would think this. Does it mean it was magic? They believed it was. Oh snap there is that word again! :rolleyes:

That was the very first sentence of my post in this thread, dude. It was simply to back up my thoughts on Enchanting and Magic in the Mod. Not to bend the will of others and make them believe in it.

People who study science know it is science. I didn't say they claim it is magic. I said to me it SEEMED like magic. Since it SEEMS I have to elaborate for you.... I won't.

You seem to be missing the important link in the English definition of Magic. If you scroll up, the English word Magic is defined using the words "seem", "believed", and "illusion". Reality is not an illusion. Magic is. Science is a reality. Though to the untrained mind, the act of magnetism and its effects on gravity, which can be scientifically explained, can definitely seem like magic or paranormal effects to someone who doesn't know the difference or is unschooled. Just because you or another person has a logical-have-to-have-the-proof-or-it-doesn't-exist mindset, doesn't mean everyone else ticks like that. Some people like to actually dream and have imaginations. Without them we all end up like Spock or Data from Star Trek.

There is evidence that this place actually exists... though this picture may be photoshopped... so you don't have to believe if you don't want to. :rolleyes:

http://www.mysteryhill-nc.com/joomla/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=2&Itemid=3

Posted Image

And in closing, the reference between the farmer and the sailor was a sarcastic viewpoint on 1 person who refuses to go and see for themselves and therefore refuses to even ponder the possibility, and another person who has followed his dreams to discover something fantastic and real to them. The farmer didn't say he was a sailor <_< . I'm not saying magic is or is not real. -_- The world is round. It isn't flat. Doesn't mean it is magic. Oompa-Loompas aren't real though there is film footage proving they do in fact exist.

@ Eleazzar

I think you are on to something. There has to be more to TFC than mining and farming. I think it will come, but the wait is excruciating. LOL. We need more Mobs to make the plethora of armor and weapons relevant, more things to occupy the gamer while their leather is tanning and stuff is cooking. :)

I like the idea of musical instruments mentioned in this thread...

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/3903-musical-items/

And the Brewing (of useful items) in this thread:

http://terrafirmacraft.com/f/topic/3301-brewing-and-beverages/

Have a magical day! :lol:

Menoch

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Kind of a 180 on everything you said, but ok? Understand that it is near impossible to know if someone is sarcastic in print unless they make it painfully clear. Winkey smiles don't perform that function, and the length of your post implied you were serious.

In any event, I still think magic should be made a modular addon to TFC if it's added. An ore that's only useful in alloying with other metals to grant power? Pommel-stones that records what it was used on most and can be reused when the tool breaks?

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Yea man. I am a very sarcastic individual, and I joke around way more than I should sometimes. Sometimes it is detrimental to my communication, especially when it comes to e-mails, texts, and forums.

I don't think I 180'd though, just clarified.

I do think there is a realm outside of the one we perceive every day, like I stated, but what some people call magic, others call spirituality, others call Wrestling, yadda yadda... And don't ever tell a WInky Smile that there is something they can not do!!! It angers them and then they become an Anger Face.

/em shudders.

I more than agree that magic, if implemented, should be very hard to acquire. Not sure I agree with the modular add-on part. TFC should be an all or nothing, take it or leave it Mod. Making a Mod for a Mod might be more work than necessary imho.

I like the idea about a certain metal mixed as an alloy. (Quicksilver maybe?)

Gems could be used to infuse metals with their powder to make ... umm... gem infused metals of varying sorts? I don't know...

Gems that record what they were used most on. You mean as in if the gem was on a mining pick it gains "knowledge" of what it was used on and increases the users mining the more he or she uses it? This could increase a gem's value ten-fold. Please elaborate if this isn't what you meant.

Inquiring minds want to know!

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Yeah, the idea was that the number of each kind of block mined would be recorded in the item. When it finally breaks, the gem pops out and can be reused on a new tool. The block that was mined the most in the tools last incarnation would be easier to mine in it's next one. Maybe this is cumulative, making stones with multiple incarnations more and more valuable. An axe that can fell a douglas fir in a chop or two? A sword that eats through creepers? Similar things could be done with armor. Fall/explosion/lava/arrow resistant armor could come from training gems this way.

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If gems were a bit rarer, THEY'D HAVE VALUE. Alas for now they sit in a chest collecting dust... sigh...

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If gems were a bit rarer, THEY'D HAVE VALUE. Alas for now they sit in a chest collecting dust... sigh...

They need usefulness of some kind --even if it was only decorative --to be truly valuable.
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They need usefulness of some kind --even if it was only decorative --to be truly valuable.

ya gems are usless they need to be used for more than just useless protection meters (I know what they do but there still pointless)
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Woah guys, this is already a game steeped in magic. TFC just makes mundane things more a part of the game, so it gets obscured.

When it gets dark your fears manifest in the form of monsters that should not be able to exist and have no reasonable source or purpose other than your own nightmares and death.

Where do you think Don't Starve got the idea?

Let's say the enchanting system from MC was enabled for TFC. The main beef I have with that is the use of levels for enchanting. TFC changes levels to equate to your actual experience as a survivor in the wild. And I'm putting that into an item I could easily lose and will eventually destroy? Why and how?

I'm all for enchanting if it's made to fit TFC. And I like the idea of using gems, only because I hate that they exist and have no purpose. Give them any purpose at all and I'm happy. Ammo, fertilizer, grinding crystals, hog fodder - I don't care.

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With the upcoming civilisation updates (fingers crossed) it would be cool if gems of different varieties could be more abundant in certain areas and for different gems to have different effects on weapons.

So people settled in different areas would be likely to have the same enchants. So you could have scenarios where the fire nation attacked :D

So on a more srs note: red gems crafted into weapons would be like a substantially nerfed fire aspect: in order of strength of enchantment; agate, garnet, jasper then ruby.

blue gems could be an ice damage and slowness thing: in order of strength; beryl, opal, sapphire then diamond.

and brown or green gems could be earth, so massive knockback and strong blocking capablities, in order of strength: jade, topaz, tourmaline then emerald.

i don't know what to do with amethyst though.

Sorry if this has already been said, sorry if this is just a plain bad idea :L i just thought it would go hand in hand with civilization update and would give people from certain cities an identity.

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