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Sasalec

Apiculture ...* And more soon *...

36 posts in this topic

So let me be frank ( for this brief sentence ) I like terrafirmacraft.

But then I see that with every update, it could add things that reinforce the concept of the game.

---Apiculture:

One mod that I used to play was forestry.

This mod added farming, aboriculture, apiculture, bio fuels, **peat fuels (< We have that, Woohoo! ) and many other things. So I wondered to myself. Many of you would probably know that apiculture wasn't a very early discovery (dating at around 2100 BC) so it will probably come later in the game.

--The first recorded use of apiculture was during the ancient Egyptian era. The people would make these hives out of hollow logs, clay vessels etc.etc.

In various artworks workers were depicted to blow smoke into hives, then showing the workers removing honeycombs to be stored in jars and pots.

In-game we would be able to make apiaries. I don't know how they will be crafted but they will probably require a specific wood type. Bees could be found in warm climates. Beehives hang from trees. To collect honeycombs from beehives one simply destroys it. If a player does this they will get attacked by a group of bees and/or get a nausea effect. To recover bees from the hive you must scoop them out using a scoop ( made from string and a stick base ) this destroys the hive but still gives you the honey

(Making it more efficient than breaking the hive )

Smoking: To create a smoker you will need to be at the metalworking stage. You will need to craft it with tin and other components. To get the smoke you will need to place it in a campfire. Place it in the the cooking section and wait a couple of minutes for the smoker to gather enough smoke. To extract the honey you will need to smoke the bees and extract the honeycombs. To extract the honey you will need a **press (<will get to that later )

When you press the honey combs you will get two products:

Honey which you can place in jars and beeswax which you can create into candles ( candles are very self explanatory, I don't think I need to write about them)

Apiaries increase the productivity rate in the nearby farms and increases the tree growth speed.

** you will make the press later on in the game as it requires bronze to build. This is used to press honeycombs, turn flowers into dye etc.etc. This would also be a benificial tool for later updates of the game.

If you have any suggestions for my idea tell me and I'll write about it! ( I will brush this post later on today)

--I will also be writing about natural flora tommorow, and then about many, MANY other things until I run out of ideas ;)/>/>

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Forestry is included in alot of basic modpacks but it does include a higher degree of industrial automation.

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I love that too, but if there is bee breeding, then make comb produced based on flowers not bees

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I love this idea as I am a great fan of honey bees and bee culture. They found cave painting in Spain suggesting that people would climb up, using ladders, to cave ceilings to try to get honey from bee hives. I don't know if the paintings, being very basic stick figures, were able to prove they used some kind of smoking method or just broke up the hives. As I hate heights and the idea of being attacked by a swarm of bees while a hundred feet above a stone flood I can't see this being something I plan to do in the future. Extreme Honey Collecting! Hmm..no.

Would honey combs be food if one could not press them? Or would there be bonuses to using a press?

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Wouldn't it make more sense for the smoker to be filled with something that is actually burning instead of "gathering" smoke from a fire. As far as I know you cannot gather smoke in this fashion, because it is mostly made up of suspended ash particles (plus carbon dioxide is a gas and would escape unless the seal was air tight). Perhaps instead the smoker would be filled with a burning splint (a torch) which would then subsequently allow it, for only a short amount of time, be used to smoke a hive. Otherwise I like the ideas of this post as long as all the bee products have there respective uses.(i.e. Honey to sweeten and preserve food, wax to make candles etc.) We don't need yet another useless item to take up space (like gems).

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Thats a nice idea, with honey theres so much to do:

For example, the first medications of the man were cloths with honey sludge,

An other uses could be candles.... And i can t think to others now....

But this is definitely a nice idea

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For a special plank to build the apiary, maybe you soak planks in seed oil (8 seeds in a full water barrel). I figure that makes sense, since Forestry's had that as a requirement, and it makes barrels a little more useful. Also, for the wax would you melt it into a mold, and place the string in the mold and let it cool? I'd like a wax block as well, made from a bucket of molten wax placed, and cooled which can be used with the chisel.

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Seeing as how Mead is my new favorite drink, I am all for being able to make it.

That said, if Dunk adds bees it will be in a way totally unlike forestry, and unique to TFC and his coding style

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I think the best wood for Apiaries is Cedar, I believe bugs do not eat it.

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First: why do you need bronze to make a press? It's one of the things I hated about forestry. Apiary doesn't need that much of advancement in the tech tree. A press could be made out of wood or even stone. You mentions Egyptians having apiculture. They definitely did not have bronze. The farthest they ever got was copper, and you can quote me on that; even the tools they used for chiseling stone for the pyramids and the sphinx were made of copper, a relatively soft metal.

Second, the smoker: when I lived in India, a bees built a hive under the balcony. The guy who harvested if used nothing but heavy, oversized clothing (to protect from stings), a rickety wooden ladder, and a fire fueled with green sticks and grass. A firepit fueled with saplings under a beehive should make enough smoke.

Third, the apiary. Bees will take any proper shelter for a hive site, even an upturned basket. No need for elaborate seed-squeezing, carpentry, and impregnating wood. The frames are a fairly new and modern addition. A specific wood type would make apiary too labor-intensive for it to be worth it. One of my recent worlds has nothing but willow trees for miles around. And while beekeeping may not be a very early discovery, third-world countries deal with wild bees, countries that don't have much metal or industrialization.

And last: I do like the fact that beekeeping increases yields from crops, but tree growth? If anything, it should increase the yields of fruit trees, but pollinating saplings won't help they grow faster, just make them yield seeds faster. If Hickory nuts, Chestnuts, and acorns are ever added, they could help with that. Itll keep Apiary in the food section of gameplay. Don't get me wrong, I do like the suggestion. I just want to see bee-keeping done right, not like its done in Forestry.

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I was about to suggest this.
bees would be a great addition to the game, as honey provides a lot of important vitamins.
"Depictions of humans collecting honey from wild bees date to 15,000 years ago; efforts to domesticate them are shown in Egyptian art around 4,500 years ago"1

  • I would not want this to be complicated like Forestry.
  • The products would be just lovely honeys and maybe faster tree/crop growth.
  • You could harvest honey from wild bees, this would of course have some very nasty consequences if done incorrectly.
  • Honey could increase vitality (or whatever the thing is called)
  • Simple apiaries could be made, and easier harvested.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beekeeping
 

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The problem with adding any sort of beekeeping is that modern beekeeping didn't come into existence until about 150 years ago.  Before that, it was much, much harder to create an artificial hive structure that didn't get completely destroyed when harvesting the honey.  The moveable frame style of beehive that we use today is a very recent invention.

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so um... can't we just make a new hive every time?

Kinda like farming crops. make a bunch of hives, let them 'grow', then break some for honey, and leave the rest to get more bees

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Im sure that would not Bee such a problem. Budum tush.

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I would love to see apiculture done a lot better than it is in Forestry or Harvestcraft. It's silly for a hive to just create honey from nothing. Having bees pollinate crops and fruit trees would be great. Making it so that the hive frames deteriorate after harvest would make it more balanced difficulty-wise, that way you couldn't just constantly have your crops growing faster and producing more.

 

At the very least, I would like to see wild hives attached to trees. If you harvest one, it's destroyed, and a swarm would attack you. The hives would randomly spawn over the spring and summer months (maybe autumn), but uncommonly or rarely. A hive would survive indefinitely, but it wouldn't be much use unless you destroy it for honey or it happens to be near your crops.  So, if you manage to have one spawn near your crops, congrats, your crops will grow and produce better. Otherwise, all you get is a bit of honey.

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I really like the idea of having bees, for several reasons:

  • Honey has a long shelf life and could be used for healing/energy
  • Wax would provide more lighting options (candelabras for ceiling lighting?).  Wax could also be used for casting complex metal items that couldn't be made on an anvil, such as bronze vessels.

Gameplay thoughts:

  • I think that instead of increasing the speed of crop growth (which pollination couldn't do), having a nearby hive, wild or otherwise would provide an artificial boost to to the agricultural skill when harvesting crops within a certain radius, possibly giving the player more seeds and/or food.  A smaller radius for wild hives would provide a reason to cultivate bees.
  • I like the idea of player made hives requiring maintenance or replacement to continue to be useful.
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I am loving this debate, I just think bees would fit TeraFirma.

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I think beehives should spawn rarely on trees, and every spring, there would be a (extremely) rare chance for beehives to (re)spawn, and a (much less rare, but still quite rare)chance for a beehive to 'spread' (a beehive spawning near a already-existing beehive). And a (slightly common) chance for a player-placed beehive near a beehive with a bee to get populated.

A player-placed beehive should only be able to populate nearby empty artificial hives and not make and 'wild' hives for balance reasons.

 

You should be able to right-click a beehive with a jug/jar/whatever to collect honey, at a chance of getting attacked by bees.

Or, break the hive for a chance for honeycombs(full or empty, depending on when you last took honey from it.) for a 100% chance to get attacked by bees.

(also can be attacked when running or talking loudly[using a ! in chat] near a hive)

Empty honeycombs should be meltable into wax, for all your wax-y needs.

Breaking the hive should also have a extremely low chance of yielding bee grubs.(and royal jelly, if you guys like that).

Bee grubs can be used to populate a player-made beehive artificiality, eaten(cooked or raw), or possibly, used as bait on fishing rods to get more fish/rare fish

 

A fake beehive should be made from planks and sticks, and possibly honeycombs, and should yield less then a wild beehive, so you can choose to try and 'cultivate' wild bees, or get 'tame' bees.

 

A torch near a beehive should slightly lower the chances of bees coming to attack you, an active firepit a should lower the chances even more.

 

Bees should make crops and fruit trees/berry bushes give more fruits/crops/seeds.

Though root plants such as carrots, potatoes, onions, etc, and leaf crops like jute and cabbages would not be effected.

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so um... can't we just make a new hive every time?

Kinda like farming crops. make a bunch of hives, let them 'grow', then break some for honey, and leave the rest to get more bees

 

Basically, how it works, is you create an artificial structure wherein the bees will make their hive.  However, harvesting the hive to get the honey out completely destroys the beehive.  So you need to keep lots of them, and 'split' some of the mature ones, and harvest others.

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So you need to have hives that you break for honey and such, and hives you keep to get more bees

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Honestly, I don't think being able to "harvest" and transport bees via scooping should be possible in TFC. Bees and honey should be a limited resource, somewhat a luxury.

Bee hives should spawn naturally, adjacent to a log or stone (I.e on a tree, in a cave, along a cliff side, etc). They grow downwards by a block every few months (except during winter), maxing out at 3 blocks tall hives.

Collecting honeycombs is as easy as breaking the hives. This however leads to a retaliation from the bees, causing any mob within 5 blocks from the hive to take damage over time. Having a firepit under the hive, with a sapling burning in the cooking slot, will negate this. Armor also reduces the damage received.

The only way to "move" bees is to create an artificial hive near an existing hive, and hope that it will be colonized. This may take a random amount time to happen. Bees will not move in the winter.

Artificial hives are made by crafting straw and clay together.

This way, you can't simply just bring bees to your base and harvest them easily. You will have to create a chain of artificial hives, and wait for them to slowly spread over.

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I think that every spring, just like wild crops, there is a extremely small chance for a beehive to generate, and a slightly bigger chance for a existing beehive to 'spread' to another tree/block

and a little bit bigger chance for a (empty) artificial beehive to get colonized

 

I also think that artificial beehives should have some pros and cons over the natural beehive, so the player can let the wild hive grow, or get artificial hives.

 

But since some players might have to go a really long distance before they get bees, I suggest that there be a extremely, extremely, extremely(like, 5% or something) rare chance that when a beehive is broken, it drops a bee grub that can be used to colonize a artificial hive

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I think the way to grow your bee colones should be controlled by time so once you have a bee colony it takes a whole year before you can brake it and have 2 queens to make another colony.

We need to make it worth for people to go exploring looking for beehives. 

The area of effect of each beehive should be no bigger than one chunk

Fruit trees already give too much fruits so to give a reason for a player toi have a beehive pollinating an orchard we should make fruit trees produce less when not pollinated by bees. 

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Fruit trees already give too much fruits so to give a reason for a player to have a beehive pollinating an orchard we should make fruit trees produce less when not pollinated by bees. 

Seeing that fruit is needed to retain 1/4th of your health, and that food not rots.... I think we have enough reasons to want more fruit, don't you?

Anyways, you seem to have forgotten, but the main reason for keeping bees is to get honey and wax, not to get more crops.

If the apiculture is implemented in a halfway decent way, the honey and wax gotten from the beehives should be payment enough.

 

The area of effect of each beehive should be no bigger than one chunk

A chunk is a 16X16 area, leading from bedrock to build limit.

Even without the bedrock to build limit height, a 16x16 area is quite the large area, I think a smaller area would be better.

 

 

I think the way to grow your bee colones should be controlled by time so once you have a bee colony it takes a whole year before you can brake it and have 2 queens to make another colony.

I don't think there should be a definite chance of getting more bees when you break a hive, no matter how long you wait before you break the hive.

I'd rather that once colonized, a hive takes a few months(say, 3~4 or example[Note:Random numbers, off top of my head]) to fully mature.

A mature hive, when broken, gives honeycombs, and 0~2 bee larva(0 more likely than 1, and much, much more likely than 2)

Bee larva, which right-click on a empty beehive, will colonize it.

And every spring, there will be a chance for a empty beehive near a mature beehive to be colonized.

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16x16 blocks is big? Really? That's only 8 meters each direction, and you want it even less than that.

Do you realize that bees can fly several kilometers to get their stuff? If real bees were functioning like you want them to in minecraft, they'd be long extinct.

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